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    The PlayStation 3 (often abbreviated PS3) is the third home video game console created and released by Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

    Sony Publishes Q&A to Address More PSN Concerns, Still Unanswered Questions

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    g6065

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    #101  Edited By g6065

    I broke the dam.

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    drwhat

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    #102  Edited By drwhat

    Dear Sir,

    There is too much interesting news on Giant Bomb. Please become worse at your job. My RSS reader is choked full of great news posts.

    Yours,
    Doctor What, Not An M.D.

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    eloj

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    #103  Edited By eloj
    @Hailinel said:

    This isn't extortion.  This is an update keyed to the new security measures of PSN.  If you've been keeping your firmware up to date through legitimate means at all, then you already lost OtherOS functionality a long time ago. "

    I never said is was extortion, the word doesn't even appear in my text. Also, I don't understand the rest of your comment. Assume I'm still on 3.15 with OtherOS and want to change my PSN password due to the intrusion. If there isn't a way to do that which doesn't require me to upgrade the FW, then Sony (in my IANAL opinion) are undermining one of the arguments they're using in court, where they say users are perfectly fine sticking to the old FW if they want to.
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    eloj

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    #104  Edited By eloj
    @kalmis:@kalmis said:

    " @vividnova: Well of course. I am just saying that  if the credit card data on Sony's servers is encrypted how could it be used like this Norwegian guy claims. "

    Maybe they stored the key(s) on the same systems? There's really no reason to blankly assume a best case scenario here. Encryption is only useful insofar it's applied correctly. You can encrypt data without adding to the overall security of the system.

    Fortunately there are typically laws and regulations re: CC information storage specifically. Perhaps one can assume Sony at the very least followed those.
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    Vodun

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    #105  Edited By Vodun
    @Hailinel said:
    " @Vodun said:
    " @Hailinel said:
    " @boylie:  Word of advice: Don't accuse others of wearing tinfoil hats when you're the one defending the actions of a company that has all but admitted to fucking up. "
    Wait, so companies shouldn't admit to fucking up? Cover ups are better? "
    What?  No.  Don't go out of your way to defend companies that fucked up like Sony did.  I don't know how you interpreted what I said the way you apparently did. "
    The inclusion of the word "admitted", to me, appears to put focus on admitting guilt being the bad thing rather than the actual fuckup.
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    FoolInjection

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    #106  Edited By FoolInjection

    Would just like to point out... the longer this continues to be down, the PSN I mean, the more it will hurt Sony in the long run.

    Working in the video game store, I've already noticed and influx in people trading-in PS3's for 360's claiming if they can't play online then the machine is dead to them.

    The sad but true story of how console gaming is all online now, single player offline would seem to be dead in the water.

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    vividnova

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    #107  Edited By vividnova
    @kalmis: Sorry, I was more commenting on - why does his credit card being stolen end up meaning that it was stolen from this psn thang? People have their cc's nabbed every day. More likely to be just a coincidence wouldn't you think?
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    kalmis

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    #108  Edited By kalmis
    @vividnova:  NP, yeah of course. Have hard time believing it myself as well. This newspaper is bit on the tabloid side anyway.
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    Jost1

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    #109  Edited By Jost1

    There's no defending Sony here, anyone who does has some kind of misplaced brand loyalty.

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    evanomeara

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    #110  Edited By evanomeara

    Man this is some fucked up shit, can't believe how inept Sony are. How could they not encrypt personal data

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    dagas

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    #111  Edited By dagas

    "  The personal data table, which is a separate data set, was not encrypted, but was, of course, behind a very sophisticated security system that was breached in a malicious attack."    


    Not sophisticated enough apparently.


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    AndrewB

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    #112  Edited By AndrewB

    ALWAYS encrypt. For the love of god. I sure hope they bring back the service with the option to wipe all of the data you've given them and delete your account. The worst part for me is that the only reason I even used the service (not being a PS3 owner but being a PSP owner) was to download demos for games I couldn't even run on my PSP.


    Anyone want to do some investigation (or already have an answer) to how Microsoft handles security? You can bet someone will be testing their systems after this, and I hope they're prepared. I have a lot more invested in Xbox Live. A breach would not be happy.
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    VegasAceVII

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    #113  Edited By VegasAceVII

    Good job sony, get all this mess sorted out so we can get back online.  PS.  CATCH THOSE MOTHER @^@^%@

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    Nihilius

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    #114  Edited By Nihilius

    I hope the guys/gals who started this fiasco get what is coming and pay for what they have done.

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    Anund

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    #115  Edited By Anund
    @Hailinel said:
    " @Vodun said:
    " @Hailinel said:
    " @boylie:  Word of advice: Don't accuse others of wearing tinfoil hats when you're the one defending the actions of a company that has all but admitted to fucking up. "
    Wait, so companies shouldn't admit to fucking up? Cover ups are better? "
    What?  No.  Don't go out of your way to defend companies that fucked up like Sony did.  I don't know how you interpreted what I said the way you apparently did. "
     Do you think Sony is the only company to have suffered a breach of security? Do you think it's even possible for any company to completely avoid a security breach if they are the target of a dedicated attack? 
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    positron

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    #116  Edited By positron

    So my name, address, date of birth and password were not encrypted. At the very least passwords should have been encrypted as well as credit card info. That's just lazy. Sony deserve all the shit they are getting and are going to get over this. 

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    Wuddel

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    #117  Edited By Wuddel

    By the way: I got a new credit card with the fee for that waived by my card company.

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    get2sammyb

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    #118  Edited By get2sammyb
    @evanomeara said:

    " Man this is some fucked up shit, can't believe how inept Sony are. How could they not encrypt personal data "

    You better get your ass off the Internet then because it's not common practice to encrypt stuff like names and adresses. If they encrypted everything (Iike people are expecting) it would kill performance of the network. Then people would be sitting here complaining about how "slow PlayStation Network is" and why "XBOX Live is better". You know it's true.

    But hey, it's cool when we can just look for every negative and spout bullshit about how "shit" Sony is, right? I understand people are angry (and you have every right to be!), but it sounds like they've done everything by the book to me. Taking the entire Network offline when they detected an intrusion was -- for a start -- an enormously bold move.

    I'm not defending anyone here. Clearly this sucks, and Sony's communication about it has been questionable at best. But I'm really bored with people spewing rubbish about things they don't understand.
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    penguindust

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    #119  Edited By penguindust

    "..., including moving our network infrastructure and data center to a new, more secure location,..."


    No Caption Provided
    This is the first thing that popped into my head.  I can see them renting some office space between the Stargate and the W.O.P.R. 

       
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    positron

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    #120  Edited By positron
    @get2sammyb said:
    " @evanomeara said:

    " Man this is some fucked up shit, can't believe how inept Sony are. How could they not encrypt personal data "

    You better get your ass off the Internet then because it's not common practice to encrypt stuff like names and adresses. If they encrypted everything (Iike people are expecting) it would kill performance of the network. Then people would be sitting here complaining about how "slow PlayStation Network is" and why "XBOX Live is better". You know it's true.But hey, it's cool when we can just look for every negative and spout bullshit about how "shit" Sony is, right? I understand people are angry (and you have every right to be!), but it sounds like they've done everything by the book to me. Taking the entire Network offline when they detected an intrusion was -- for a start -- an enormously bold move.I'm not defending anyone here. Clearly this sucks, and Sony's communication about it has been questionable at best. But I'm really bored with people spewing rubbish about things they don't understand. "
    Sony Defence Force much?
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    geirr

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    #121  Edited By geirr

    I know the importance of sounding formal and how it in most cases help bigger companies,
    but in some cases it gets a little frustrating and we want to see necks getting wringed!
    As for law enforcement in this case, it's a little ironic considering how Sony illegally
    pulled the otherOS function from the PS3 without any repercuss.. oh wait here we are.
    Probably not related of course, but it's a fun thought. Some noble, fat super hero hacker
    out there somewhere with an outdated meme tshirt keeping the internet justice aflow.
    Of couse this hurts 77 million consumers as well, so it's not much.. justicy, I guess.
    Darn.

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    Vlad_Tiberius

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    #122  Edited By Vlad_Tiberius
    @hckling:
    Sorry to interfere in your "heated" argument, but the same discussion happens for days on IGN.
    Apparently, the people that don't know jack shit about basic law are also the most fanatic and brainwashed corporate ass-kissers I ever seen.
    These fucking idiots can't understand the simple fact that all PSN users had to accept an "user agreement" with Sony when they registered, and NOT WITH SOME HACKERS.
     In that "user agreement", Sony took it upon itself to protect the user's personal data. For some reason, Sony failed protect that info, thus failing to respect its part from the "user agreement", therefore being responsible for that mess.
    The hackers are not OUR problem-it's Sony's, because we (the PSN users) trusted Sony with our data, not anybody else.
    And those are hackers, that's what they do-they hack systems (duh!), so ironically, they did their job, while Sony didn't. (If the police fails to protect me when criminals attack, then I blame the police, because they are paid from my taxes)
    It's not our fault that Sony is apparently so cheap that they can't hire some serious  no-life jerk-off nerds and pay them to watch anime porn and to protect the servers and the PSN against those hackers.
    And another thing: if you, a big corporation, still can't give us one, at least ONE hacker name, after a whole week of stupid, unexplainable hush-hush secrecy mixed with a PR mess, then get the fuck out  of this industry and do something else.
     
    I like playing on my PS3, I like its games and exclusives, but not to that point of being a raging stupid fanboy, oblivious to any reason and even to the simple fact that Sony handled my info and this whole situation less than amateurish, which is odd, now, in 2011, Sony being also one of the biggest electronics companies and not some newcomers on this market.
    End of rant.
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    Mijati

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    #123  Edited By Mijati

    Just got an email from LoveFilm (UK Version of Netflix) with regards to the downtime saying their information has not been compromised. Not that I suspected it had been, but always good to know. (It's fully possible to sign up for LoveFilm via a PS3)

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    monkeyking1969

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    #124  Edited By monkeyking1969

    I feel bad for Sony.  As for me...it took me about ten minutes to scoot around the web changing a few passwords, truth be told I took this oppurtunity to chnge even ones taht were not the same as my PSN...call it Spring Cleaning. I popped into my credit card too just to look at transactions, and i changed some of my contact e-mails to newer ones....something I should have done a year ago.

    Over all I feel the same way about Sony as I would if he were my teenager and he dented the car.  I'm glad he's safe and I glad nobody got hurt (nobody I care about), but I'm gonna tell him he has to be more careful.  

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    Loiosh

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    #125  Edited By Loiosh
    @get2sammyb said:

    " @evanomeara said:

    " Man this is some fucked up shit, can't believe how inept Sony are. How could they not encrypt personal data "

    You better get your ass off the Internet then because it's not common practice to encrypt stuff like names and adresses. If they encrypted everything (Iike people are expecting) it would kill performance of the network.
    Xbox Live's user data is entirely encrypted. It is also not accessible from a single console / user account / dev console. The access is specifically restricted to prevent breaches like this.

    Microsoft talks about their attack profile work here: 
    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/larryosterman/archive/2007/09/21/threat-modeling-again-threat-modeling-rules-of-thumb.aspx

    There's a much larger and better article out there, but shacknews is down so I cannot find it.
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    Anund

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    #126  Edited By Anund
    @Vlad_Tiberius:  @Vlad_Tiberius said:

    " @hckling: Sorry to interfere in your "heated" argument, but the same discussion happens for days on IGN.Apparently, the people that don't know jack shit about basic law are also the most fanatic and brainwashed corporate ass-kissers I ever seen.These fucking idiots can't understand the simple fact that all PSN users had to accept an "user agreement" with Sony when they registered, and NOT WITH SOME HACKERS. In that "user agreement", Sony took it upon itself to protect the user's personal data. For some reason, Sony failed protect that info, thus failing to respect its part from the "user agreement", therefore being responsible for that mess.The hackers are not OUR problem-it's Sony's, because we (the PSN users) trusted Sony with our data, not anybody else. And those are hackers, that's what they do-they hack systems (duh!), so ironically, they did their job, while Sony didn't. (If the police fails to protect me when criminals attack, then I blame the police, because they are paid from my taxes)It's not our fault that Sony is apparently so cheap that they can't hire some serious  no-life jerk-off nerds and pay them to watch anime porn and to protect the servers and the PSN against those hackers.And another thing: if you, a big corporation, still can't give us one, at least ONE hacker name, after a whole week of stupid, unexplainable hush-hush secrecy mixed with a PR mess, then get the fuck out  of this industry and do something else.  I like playing on my PS3, I like its games and exclusives, but not to that point of being a raging stupid fanboy, oblivious to any reason and even to the simple fact that Sony handled my info and this whole situation less than amateurish, which is odd, now, in 2011, Sony being also one of the biggest electronics companies and not some newcomers on this market.End of rant. "

    I guess you took it on yourself to remove the quotes around "heated" by calling people who think maybe Sony handled this fairly alright, all things considered, "fanatic and brainwashed corporate ass-kissers" and "fucking idiots".
    I'd also like to see where in this "user agreement" you mention Sony guarantees all your information will be protected from ever being exposed in case their systems get hacked. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I will say, however, that if the user agreement does state any such thing, Sony should fire the lawyer who approved such an obvious pitfall. That would indeed be a fuck-up of epic proportions. Anyone in the tech-industry knows that is not something you can guarantee, ever. Also, user agreements tend to be rather one directional and it would be rare indeed for a company to promise anything like what you seem to believe.
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    rmanthorp

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    #127  Edited By rmanthorp  Moderator

    SAD DAY

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    JBird

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    #128  Edited By JBird

    In a strange way I hope the hackers were some nerd boys, thinking there such rebels and teaching Sony a lesson for suing over the security PSN thing. Because I can imagine them now, shitting themselves, completely out of their depth not realising that what they were doing would become international news and have the FBI breathing down their necks. I've noticed a shift in the focus of non gaming news that has started to put Sony in the victim position, gaming sites just seem to enjoy the controversy and slaming sony for being useless. whereas non gaming sites have put a much more criminal slant on it, i.e. Sony has been attacked and is doing the best it can to cope with it. I prefer the non gaming slant. At the end of the day we dont know anything about whats really happened, so how can we judge sony for not acting the way we'd want? 

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    mnzy

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    #129  Edited By mnzy
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    twillfast

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    #130  Edited By twillfast
    @Norusdog said:
    "Rot in hell sony. "
    This is also aimed towards the london police after the Jack the Ripper-murders, the investigators of the JFK assassination and every person who ever disliked the Jesse James gang.

    What is up with people hating on the victims of crime while ignoring the actual problem; the criminals.

    I guess I'll be the first to say it: rot in hell hackers, or get a job like honest people.
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    deactivated-5865c6a5c9438

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    This sucks. Keep up the good work Klepek.

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    Bones8677

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    #132  Edited By Bones8677
    @Rockdalf said:

    " @MooseyMcMan said:

    " So, top men are on it? Hopefully?  "


    No Caption Provided
    "
    So this is how they're going to protect our information from now on?
      
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    JBird

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    #133  Edited By JBird
    @twillfast: 

    heres to that! I really dont understand why people are complaining about Sony. Are people honestly saying that the second Sony got hacked they wanted a personal email from Jack apologising and offering a lifetime of free consoles?

    The hackers caused this problem, but gamers seem so intent on slamming the company that provides them with a hobby. Weird.  The FBi's on it, other security firms are involved, and  its looking like all our money is safe. No need to be so angry! 

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    Bones8677

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    #134  Edited By Bones8677
    @PenguinDust said:
    "

    "..., including moving our network infrastructure and data center to a new, more secure location,..."


    No Caption Provided
    This is the first thing that popped into my head.  I can see them renting some office space between the Stargate and the W.O.P.R. 

       
    "
    Don't be ridiculous, THIS is where they will be moving their infrastructure.

    No Caption Provided
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    Lemegeton

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    #135  Edited By Lemegeton

    Sorry Sony not good enough. Unless you make a statement confirming that going forward ALL personal data is going to be encrypted then you wont get another penny from me. Your response
    "
    We’ve taken several immediate steps to add protections for your personal data. First, we temporarily turned off PlayStation Network and Qriocity services and, second, we are enhancing security and strengthening our network infrastructure. Moving forward, we are initiating several measures that will significantly enhance all aspects of PlayStation Network’s security and your personal data, including moving our network infrastructure and data center to a new, more secure location, which is already underway. We will provide additional information on these measures shortly."

    what fucking good is that going to do. so basically you are moving to a new house and installing more sophisticated locks?? that is completely redundant if the information contained within is still going to be stored as plain text.

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    sammo21

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    #136  Edited By sammo21

    PCI compliance is required for ANYONE who stores credit card data and its enforced and you must be certified for it.  There are different standards of PCI compliance for those who use CC information and those who actually store it...it amuses me that people think the cc data wasn't encrypted.

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    confideration

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    #137  Edited By confideration

    Someone just tried to access my Steam account. Luckily I have the 2 factor auth. I have been changing passwords but did not get to this yet - I'm pretty fucking pissed at Sony right now.

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    Nomin

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    #138  Edited By Nomin
    No Caption Provided
    Bah. What a mess. I hope the PSN users take this shitty company with a shoddy record of consumer protection and service to task. It's the only way they'll improve. 

     
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    BonOrbitz

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    #139  Edited By BonOrbitz
    @TEAMHOLT:@TEAMHOLT said:
    " @Mechabolic: They're saying that your login and other personal info may have have been unencrypted, but your credit card number was.

    But fuck all that noise. If you're security is bad enough to be storing passwords, then I have no faith  that my CC info isn't long gone. Canceling the card I was using on PSN tomorrow.
    "
    I totally agree; I'm cancelling my card today because I have no faith in Sony protecting my CC info. Although my card's expiration date and security number on the back of the card changed last month, it doesn't make a difference unfortunately. From now on if (and that's a big "if") I decide to buy any DLC from the PlayStation Store I will be purchasing a Sony PSN card first.

    ...and to think that there are idiots out there saying "oh well, I'd rather have my identity stolen than pay for a Microsoft Gold account!"
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    Rhombus_Of_Terror

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    p_p_o_d

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    #141  Edited By p_p_o_d

    maybe its just me but maybe sony should think about moving the playstation and PSN R&D out of japan.



    psp,  ps3 and PSN have had pretty silly mistakes that I feel wouldnt have been made if they had more western people designing it.


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    brundlefly

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    #142  Edited By brundlefly

    My brother has been out of his mind because of this.

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    Norusdog

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    #143  Edited By Norusdog
    @twillfast said:
    " @Norusdog said:
    "Rot in hell sony. "
    This is also aimed towards the london police after the Jack the Ripper-murders, the investigators of the JFK assassination and every person who ever disliked the Jesse James gang.What is up with people hating on the victims of crime while ignoring the actual problem; the criminals.I guess I'll be the first to say it: rot in hell hackers, or get a job like honest people. "
    Well if you had even a 2nd grade comprehension and reading level you'd see that I SAID I didn't blame them for the attack but for how they've handled things after it with us.  It took them a fucking week to start talking about it and we STILL just got some hair-brained "duuuuh herrr...we don't know" in response to CC info.

    Fact is this statement should have been posted within a day or two of the outtage...not this long after.

    But again if you had any fucking intelligence you'd of understood my simple response.  Let me know if you need help understanding this one.  I know multiple syllables gives ya problems
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    deactivated-64b8656eaf424

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    Well at least the credit card info was encrypted even if the personal info was not.

    That's something, I guess.

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    leejunfan83

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    #145  Edited By leejunfan83
    @lall: Get the fuck outta here
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    MeatSim

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    #146  Edited By MeatSim

    Glad I don't have PSN account so I don't have to worry about this but this still sucks.

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    PaleEye

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    #147  Edited By PaleEye

    Just plain craziness.  Hopefully, Sony can get its act together soon.

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    BoFooQ

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    #148  Edited By BoFooQ

    I think some of you people are going way to far.  As anyone anywhere come forth yet and said their card info or other info was used somewhere by hackers.  Unless you bank with a shady bank it's pretty easy to watch your account to moniter use of the card, plus I have faith in my bank that if card was used against my will I would be able to funds back.  If you plan on living under a rock than you should probably stop shopping anywhere on the internet and at the same time you should probably never log into your whiskey media account either.
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    willylo

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    #149  Edited By willylo
    @twillfast:  Here, Here!

    So far, other than the delay in telling the consumer base about the issue, it seems Sony's security was up to par with most other companies. But the amount of people forgetting that it's really the Hackers/Criminals fault here and just blaming Sony is crazy.  It still is their fault in the end, cause they lost the data but that'd be like people just blaming a bank/police/security for a robbery and just forgetting about the people getting away with it. :S.
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    fisk0

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    #150  Edited By fisk0  Moderator
    @WillyLo said:
    " @twillfast:  Here, Here!So far, other than the delay in telling the consumer base about the issue, it seems Sony's security was up to par with most other companies. But the amount of people forgetting that it's really the Hackers/Criminals fault here and just blaming Sony is crazy.  It still is their fault in the end, cause they lost the data but that'd be like people just blaming a bank/police/security for a robbery and just forgetting about the people getting away with it. :S. "
    I'm sorry, but it certainy does NOT look like they were up on par with how IT security should be handled post the 1990's. They still kept all the personal data (seemingly including the passwords) unencrypted. We shouldn't be thankful for that they at least had the credit card stuff encrypted, that's a god damned basic requirement. We're not talking a small newspaper store in the suburbs of a minor city in a third world country here, Sony is one of the largest corporations in the world, and was for many years pretty much the industry leader in several of it's fields, and should be expected to have at least some basic knowledge of network security.
    Hackers have been a reality since before the Internet even existed, and to a huge extent built the Internet as we know it today - IT systems should be built acknowledging that, and should always assume that the security can be breached and thus that all data should be protected so that any damage resulting from an intrusion is minimized. It sounds like Sony actually believed their "our machine is unhackable" bullshit and only had a security layer for normal users, but anything identifying itself as a debug unit was given a free pass to do anything it wanted.

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