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AhmadMetallic

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Battlefield 3 is shaping up to be a total joke

This is a rant blog, i guess....
*PS this is for people who have played Battlefield 2. If you haven't, I don't think you will relate
*PPS the fact that the game is in alpha stage doesn't mean it's gonna be 110% different when it's out. Alpha is the second step towards the golden stage, and this second step is messed up
*PPPS i'm not asking for realism or hardcore mode. those aren't the only solutions

Introducion: That player shot at a far away triangle, the result was that he killed another player. Does that sound right to you? think about that for 5 seconds, then proceed.

Now look at this new Battlefield 3 trailer:

----------------

So for those who were duped by DICE's promising interviews, telling us that Battlefield 3 is an actual sequel to Battlefield 2, using things like "Jets, big maps and prone!!1!!111!" to fool us, this blog is to inform you that you were in fact duped.

Battlefield 3
Battlefield 3

This is a very normal business step by EA, i'm not saying it's bizarre, i'm just very saddened by the fact that it eventually happened: They found that their PC-based content-rich skill-demanding not-so-rewarding games Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 didn't sell well, whereas their console spin-off Bad Company 2 made serious bank, so instead of milking the Bad Company series with BC3 in two years time, they were too eager and corrupted Battlefield 3 in order to cash in on people's hopes by the end of this year.

This game has nothing in common with Battlefield 2. only the fact that the conquest maps support 64 players.. that's it.

  • Just like BC2 and unlike BF2, there is no Commo Rose. You can't use pre-recorded commands to communicate with your team mates efficiently. We're going to be mute just like in BC2

2000+ post on the official forums protesting lack of Commo Rose

If you've never used this thing before, you really missed out.
If you've never used this thing before, you really missed out.

Here's a mock-up by a fan. tell me you dont love it:

No Caption Provided

[Full size]

  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, the ridiculously outrageous 3D spotting is back. You point at the enemy's base, tap the social button, see triangles light up, shoot at the triangles and get kills. You don't have to see the person to kill them. That is called "aim assist". the fact that you can see the triangle through walls and rocks and trees, is called "wallhacking". DICE solved the problem of cheats and hackers: they implemented that shit into their game.

3 hot threads protesting 3D Spotting: First, Second, Third.

Everyone shoot at the triangle, that makes you kill other people.
Everyone shoot at the triangle, that makes you kill other people.
  • Not only that, but squad leaders get a huge star stuffed NEXT to the spotting triangle on top of their heads, making people think twice before they start a squad.
  • The damage models are ridiculous. 3 taps and you're dead. If you have a triangle on your head, you're automatically doomed.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, teamwork stats are no-where to be seen. The scoreboard shows this: K, D, Score. the end-of-round stats consist of four screens listing your best kills and killstreaks.. yes, i said killstreaks in a Battlefield game
  • There doesn't seem to be any chain of command whatsoever. The squad leader position appears to do literally nothing. there is no commo rose to communicate, no giving orders, nothing.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, health regeneration is back. it takes 15 seconds to kick in, but once it does it goes all the way up rapidly. Once again, medics are only needed when someone dies
  • A new awesome feature: Vehicle health regeneration. 'nuff said.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, there's still an aimbot knife in the game. All you have to do is tap the knife button when you're behind someone, and you're 100% guaranteed to hit them
  • The biggest emphasis of the Lead Designer of the game's multiplayer component, is the gunz.

There's already speculations that the conquest maps are gonna be linear and chokepoint-based (no matter how big they are), and that jets and helos will have health regeneration as well.

And so, it is clear that the huge bank that Bad Company 2 made, is totally blinding DICE from having any sense of principle and they're pretty much creating Bad Company 2 under a bigger better name.

They found that when they created games that had honest clean gameplay that encouraged teamwork, they didn't make enough money. Whereas when they created a game with triangles that are visible through walls and tell you where to shoot, they made money.

Yes i'll be buying the game, and yes i'm very excited for it, but the message i'm trying to convey here is that this game is not Battlefield 3.

If you think this is a typical "Bf3 is Bc3 !!" thread, give me a counter argument.

496 Comments

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SeriouslyNow

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Edited By SeriouslyNow

@Seppli said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Seppli said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Seppli: You're the craziest person here when it comes to Battlefield so please, calm down and leave the insults aside. From one video you decided that DICE was putting parkour into BF3. You also think that PS3 has harder core players than PC (PS3 didn't earn Vietnam unlocks only PC did) and that people can't fly choppers on PC because of supposed lacking controller support (it isn't lacking and people fly em fine with keyboard and mouse too). You have no position to be calling anyone names wrt Battlefield. Ahmad is trying to have a discussion and you're being disrespectful so either be respectful or stfu.

You again. I'm as respectful as I ought to be. I call crazy who I like just like you like to call me. I've added valid talking points to this discussion. None of which sullen Ahamad or fresh SeriouslyNow care to take me up on. What about 3D spotting being serverside and optional?

As for your dissing my opinions on BF:BC 2. I am currently playing BF:BC 2 on PC quite a lot ( Rank 37) and I still stand by all my statements. Much of the PC crowd are sullen boys whining more than playing. Maybe its because of the chat and all the complaining in it, but yours is a sorry lot. Vanilla choppers on PC are comparatively broken. Vietnam Huey is fine. Gamepads allow for more control in vehicles than KB&M or KB-only. Fact. As for demanding me being more respectful. You are aware of the irony of saying STFU in the same sentence? GTFO yourself.

Actually, if you bothered to look back in the thread you'd see I have already brought up 'your valid talking points' in one sentence.

How are Vanilla choppers on PC broken exactly?

Gamepads work on PCs. You don't seem to get that. The best FPS players use keyboard and mouse. You don't seem to get that either. You call opinions facts and you don't seem to get how wrong that is.

As for 'sorry lot' bullshit and other mindless personal attacks just stow em. They add nothing and show you up to be incredibly insecure.

Ahmad is having a respectful discussion. There were no personal attacks until you decided to show your ugly mug.

Go your merry way you zealot defender of decency and respect. Deaf ignorant ears are even more disrespectful than any jab of mine. We made our points aplenty already, as everybody has made theirs in this thread and others. We'll just have agree to disagree - yet again. Especially on the point where you are suited to reprimand anyone on his manners. You clearly lack the experience in both Battlefield and respectful discourse.

You keep making wild inflammatory statements you can't back up and you expect people to just accept them. You favour the console version of BC2 for entirely subjective reasons and disfavor PC version for irrational reasons.

I've just asked that you keep the personal attack stuff out of this discussion. It's obvious that you have a pretty large ego and that's your personality. Fine. You're a douche and you don't care who knows it. Just tone it down here, OK? This discussion really has remained friendly and informative for the most part, stop trying to ruin it with your misplaced bravado please.

@Seppli said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

A buddy in the Alpha say its BFBC2 but better. Also it seems the "Spot marks" dissapper if you go behind a wall (AKA if spotter loses sight of you)

The very limited aspect of BF3 currently known is like BF:BC 2 but better? In its Alpha state? With unfinished graphics and VOs and destruction and animations and more? Playing merely 32 player Rush. Well how much better than BF:BC 2's Conquest mode will BF3's 64 player Conquest mode be then? With all the trimmings such as jets? 3D spotting and that one cheap death and that one cheap kill in ten. Those spoil all the other of BF3's known high points, as well the communicational benefits of the system itself? This lot worries too much about arbitrary and optional details. They aren't even on message, since obviously their problems lie with EA/DICE ranked server requirements and server browser. That's the butt of the joke. This whole discussion shouldn't be about 3D spotting.

The game releases in October. This is not an Alpha. This is a promotional beta load testing event. Nothing will fundamentally be changed between now and October. We're just being given access to a smaller component of one of the modes of the game.

My feeling is that 3D spotting needs to be toggleable on ranked servers (which is something that Seppli and I agree on - possibly the only thing, aside from our love of BC2) but there are certainly deeper issues with regards to MW style kill streaks and health regen in BF3. A BF game will not be improved at all with health regen. I know some people have talked about health regen making some sense on large maps when you're on your own, but really if you get stuck on your own in BF it's because you're not team and squad focused. BF isn't about lone wolf gameplay for the most part, it's about moving in groups and assisting eachother with what you've equipped. The kit-pickup-and-move-on-I'm-Rambo gameplay is something which is adjunct to the team focus and is something which breaks up the nature of play throughout matches. It also allows to get out of tough scrapes when you seem stuck in a properly competitive match. Health regen on top of that means that there's likely to be less team play and more Rambo-ing which while fun in short bursts, will ultimately decrease the game's viability over the longer term because noobs won't learn the value of team play and will constantly feel owned by those who have. This happens in BC2 all the time but BF3's health regen just will make that learning process take even longer and in some cases (some might say many) people will never feel the need to become team focused. Even the great players in BC2 who can Rambo forever eventually leave because it can be a lonely experience without good teamwork.

I don't agree that the Command Rose needs to be back in the game - context sensitive requests and marks replace most of its functionality and the fact they have separated the kit pickup and action/command buttons is enough to make me happy.

What worries me more than the things already being discussed is that we haven't yet seen any large maps or aerial combat. We haven't even been allowed to play on maps of that size and considering how close the game is to release one has to wonder if there are some performance issues which haven't yet been ironed out. Come on DICE, show off those 64 players maps with all manner of vehicles!!

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@SeriouslyNow: I used to really dislike everything you posted. But I like you now. We should be pals.

Otherwise, I'm still pretty fucking stoked for Battlefield 3. And I'm not sure any amount of naysaying is going to stymie that excitement.

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic

@Seppli: @SeriouslyNow: 
Guys, take it easy. lets take it down a notch, at the end of the day we all wanna play a good game and surely we're all looking forward to playing it together :) SeriouslyNow, wanna be my navigator in a jet as we bomb Seppli's sorry ass? :P

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infininja

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Edited By infininja

@Sitoxity said:

Regen health does NOT work as you say. That's just blatantly false. Keep an eye on your 100% health meter. I've seen mine stop at multiple numbers including 17% and 48%. If you're recharging to 100% then you're next to a medkit, which is the entire point of the medic class, btw.

I'm pretty sure health stops regenerating when you're suppressed. That's probably what happened.

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Jackel2072

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Edited By Jackel2072

ok first off at least in BF3 your man in the trailer is using a sniper. 2nd the only thing you ever see is the bushes in front of him, you have no idea if he has line of sight on the target or not.

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Sitoxity

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Edited By Sitoxity

@Infininja: Yeah, I noticed that playing with a friend last night. I was wrong, I admit it. I think the suppression effect needs to be more noticeable, honestly.

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SeriouslyNow

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Edited By SeriouslyNow

@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@Seppli: @SeriouslyNow: Guys, take it easy. lets take it down a notch, at the end of the day we all wanna play a good game and surely we're all looking forward to playing it together :) SeriouslyNow, wanna be my navigator in a jet as we bomb Seppli's sorry ass? :P

Tango is located. 12 O'clock low. Foxfire, foxfire!

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zaglis

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Edited By zaglis

Bad Company 2 is one of the worst multiplayer game I have ever player. Every single aspect of that game fucking sucks. And it seems like BF3 is just gonna be another Bad Company. I.e. Unplayable garbage.  

BF2 is easily one of my favorite games ever and it saddens me that there will never be another good Battlefield ever again.

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To the people that think 3d spotting is not a big deal not my vid btw.

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emergency

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Edited By emergency

@JEC03 said:

To the people that think 3d spotting is not a big deal not my vid btw.

Read the thread.

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Twisted_Scot

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@emergency said:

@JEC03 said:

To the people that think 3d spotting is not a big deal not my vid btw.

Read the thread.

Yea must of missed that this vid  was posted already but anyways wow could the spotting be anymore worst If I wanted to play a FPS to hold my hand I play COD I really really hope RO2 turns out awesome.
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Edwardryu

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Edited By Edwardryu

so you think BF3 sucks hell. the question is that there is no more real fun military based FPS anymore. don't tell me COD modern warfare 3 or whatever. 

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@zaglis said:

Bad Company 2 is one of the worst multiplayer game I have ever player. Every single aspect of that game fucking sucks. And it seems like BF3 is just gonna be another Bad Company. I.e. Unplayable garbage. BF2 is easily one of my favorite games ever and it saddens me that there will never be another good Battlefield ever again.

ROFLMAO.

Thanks, I needed a laugh.

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Leptok

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Edited By Leptok

The only joke is that it's not on Steam.

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Edited By zaglis
@allworkandlowpay
No problem, mate. 
 
Sometimes it makes me chuckle when someone says something retarded like ''I like Bad Company 2'' or ''Bad company 2 is better than BF2, I havent played BF2  but Bad Company 2 is way better''. Hah.
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@zaglis: I don't think you know why I'm laughing at your post.

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SpecTackle

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Edited By SpecTackle

The best thing about BF3 is the fact that there is no animation priority bullshit from BC2. I don't feel like I have to wait for my character to catch up with where my camera actually is, and that's fantastic.

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Edited By emergency

@allworkandlowpay said:

@zaglis: I don't think you know why I'm laughing at your post.

It's not cause he's an idiot? :O

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@emergency: Yeah, that's the one.

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zaglis

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Edited By zaglis
@allworkandlowpay said:

@zaglis: I don't think you know why I'm laughing at your post.

Aww, got confused there? 

@emergency said:

@allworkandlowpay said:

@zaglis: I don't think you know why I'm laughing at your post.

It's not cause he's an idiot? :O

Oh no, please don't call me an idiot, Internet forum man. :( :( :(
:[
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forestofdeath

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Edited By forestofdeath

Seriously--that poop-trumpet at the end of the video is legendary.

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@zaglis said:

@allworkandlowpay said:

@zaglis: I don't think you know why I'm laughing at your post.

Aww, got confused there?

Not confused. I'm just stating that I don't believe you know what in your post I was "ROFLMAOing."

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iamjohn

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Edited By iamjohn

Wow, this thread is still going on?

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@allworkandlowpay said:

@zaglis said:

@allworkandlowpay said:

@zaglis: I don't think you know why I'm laughing at your post.

Aww, got confused there?

Not confused. I'm just stating that I don't believe you know what I was "ROFLMAOing" your post.

Yeah lets quit this pyramid and get back on topic please 
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RE_Player1

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Edited By RE_Player1

I'm excited for Battlefield 3...

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic

Here's the latest fuck up: 
 
  

   
It even appears in the dark... 
Merry Christmas.
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Edited By Evilmetal
@Ahmad_Metallic said:

Here's the latest fuck up: 
 
  

   It even appears in the dark... Merry Christmas.
I thought it was flashlight. 
 
It's all about 'fun'  they would say. It seems like the developers think that if there is any 'resistance' to the player, the player may give-up on the game. I don't know who the target audience for BF3 is. I mean every few moments you get ribbons and points. If you happen to get on a server where Squad Leader works, and you happen to be SL, you will get points when the squad members spawn on you. After X points you will get a ribbon..... all just because they spawned on you............. so stupid. BF3 is turning out to be Battlefield 3: The Awards Ceremony 
(where everyone gets an award, because you're all special)
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Seppli

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Edited By Seppli
@Evilmetal
 
Everybody gets 'em. What's the problem? You get rewarded points for everything you do that is of value. Providing your squaddies with a proper spawn point - why shouldn't you get some points?
 
SPM is indicative of player activity and efficiency and value. Ribbons feed into SPM. There's no problem there. It's like saying a combat efficiency ribbon (6 kills in a row) or combat excellence ribbion (8 kills in a row) aren't BF-appropriate rewards, even though they clearly are. Battlefield always was about tickets in both Rush and Conquest. Killing lots and not dying has a basic value to it. Oppossed to what all the 'less than K/D 1.0' players tend to believe, acting rashly and being wasteful with tickets ain't how its done either. Proper pressure does not come from running heedless to objectives. It comes from forming a frontline and advancing kill by kill. Knowing when to risk everything and when to take it slow. Few know the difference.
 
While I understand your distaste for current game design providing much more direction than 'back in the good old days', personally I feel it's still not enough. I'd love to see a game pull a 'Matrix Office Escape'. That's the level of guidance I'd love in my games. SP and MP and anything inbetween. AI commands my every step. Indeed, I AM THE TECHNO-FASCIST!
   

@endless_void: 

 
I believe BF3's sales are pretty much safe from pirates. Whoever is there for singleplayer first and foremost isn't really in the core BF3 demographic anyways. With 11+ million preorders, it's also safe to say EA doesn't need to fear pirates at all. Even if we don't admit it, in the end we all want to get our e-peens measured by Battlelog and see who draws the biggest. At least that's part of the appeal of the modern military online multiplayer FPS genre. Fighting with and against the world to see who's best.
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DTKT

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Edited By DTKT

Did you just judge the entire game over 1 map and an alpha?

Dear god.

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@Evilmetal said:

I thought it was flashlight. 

Haha same here 
 

I mean every few moments you get ribbons and points. If you happen to get on a server where Squad Leader works, and you happen to be SL, you will get points when the squad members spawn on you. After X points you will get a ribbon..... all just because they spawned on you............. so stupid. BF3 is turning out to be Battlefield 3: The Awards Ceremony  (where everyone gets an award, because you're all special)

Well, allow me to disagree for two reasons: 
1) This is a trial, surely they accelerated the speed and frequency of level ups and awards just to give us a taste of the system. I've been adding all the ribbons to the wiki and i noticed that they all have the same worth of XP, which surely can't be the case. 
 
2) Battlefield has always been about rewarding the player with a shitload of pins, ribbons and awards.. I see no problem with this (as long as it gets slowed down and stretched out like i said above), simply because these walls of awards are an amazing incentive to make KD/R Joe try to do something else, something beneficial to the team, just to see his name on another stat slot at the end-of-round stats, not just "best killer". and to see other rewards pop up other than "combat efficiency" 
Even BF2 had very amusing challenges like "get 7 headshots with a pistol in one round" etc.. i spent many months chasing after those odd challenges and having great fun in the process :D god i fucking love bf2
 
However, the purpose of my second point is sadly defeated in BF3 because : 
  
@Seppli said:

You get rewarded points for everything you do that is of value.

 
Because that ^ is not the case. You do not get rewarded for every task of value, just the tasks that include guns/kills and the very basic teamwork key tasks like... i can't think of anything. Ace Squad and Squad Spawned On You i guess..  
So while the idea of the rewards and pins is very refreshing and challenging, DICE decided to take a crap on this : 
  
  
I once had my name on 9 of those stats. NINE 
 
Instead they replaced it with four stat screens showing everything there is to show about your gun and vehicle kills, and unlock progression.. Either bring back the focus on TEAMWORK so you can reward the person who drove him team to key locations the most, the person who held his ground the most (ground defense), the person who repaired/supplied/etc.. the most, or the new reward system is just wrong..
 
 
P.S. i find the "squad spawned on you" bonus points, one of the greatest things about Battlefield 3. It encourages you to not occupy a squad leader slot and go hide somewhere or camp in a tank, because then people won't spawn on you. But rather be somewhere where you're useful to spawn on, and get points for it :)  
 
 
 
@DTKT said: 

Did you just judge the entire game over 1 map and an alpha?

Dear god.


My friend, i'm sorry to wreck your faith in video games but 90% of the time its almost impossible to not be able to successfully predict a game's assets and focus based on months of gathering information, listening to the developer answer questions and how they approach them, and playing a portion of the game in real time. 
Just because this is Alpha stage with one map on rush mode with one vehicle, doesn't mean the gameplay will somehow change radically (in order to fit real conquest, which i doubt we're gonna have), or that vehicle management and game pacing will change radically..  
 
Video games are not that diverse and surprising, lets get real. 
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Edited By Donos

@Ahmad_Metallic: For the specific case of sitting in tanks blocking squad spawns, why aren't people allowed to just spawn beside a vehicle if the vehicle is full? I know this always bugged me in BC2. This is Battlefield, vehicles have to be used, why punish players for using them?

Anyway, if you have a problem with the way post-game stats are being presented, that is something that can change if enough people ask for it. Probably not before release, but it can change. As for moment to moment gameplay, I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. Want to give a quick summary for people who can't read through 23 pages?

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@Donos said:

@Ahmad_Metallic: For the specific case of sitting in tanks blocking squad spawns, why aren't people allowed to just spawn beside a vehicle if the vehicle is full? I know this always bugged me in BC2. This is Battlefield, vehicles have to be used, why punish players for using them?

What if the vehicle is in water, under fire, on the move or in the air? As long as the squad leader isn't spending his entire round in a vehicle (which isn't right and shouldn't be accepted anyway), it makes sense to not be able to spawn when he's in a full vehicle. all you have to do is wait a little for him to get out, or like i said, if he forgets he's an SL and remains in the vehicle, you should leave his squad! 
 

Anyway, if you have a problem with the way post-game stats are being presented, that is something that can change if enough people ask for it. Probably not before release, but it can change.

The problem is that DICE are one smug bunch of devs so they never fucking listen >_>  we're shouting as loud as we can because they've been ignoring us all along
 

As for moment to moment gameplay, I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. Want to give a quick summary for people who can't read through 23 pages?

The gameplay of Battlefield 3 focuses on high-bullet-damage combat assisted by visible-through-obstacles three dimensional cone that says "shoot under me" - it focuses too much on KD/R and kills and weapons and leaves out the part that is about helping your team. 
there doesn't seem to be any in-game awards or points or teamwork-score on the scoreboard to show those who are working for their team, or to rewards them. You were the best at driving your teammates to objectives, or the best to grab stationary LMGs and putting them to use against enemy infantry, or the best supplier/healer/reviver/repairer, or the best guy in your squad who fired the passenger gun of your SL's APC .. None of that is rewarded or even acknowledged in any form.
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HandsomeDead

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This thread is hilarious.

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Ping5000

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@Ahmad_Metallic said:


@DTKT said: 

Did you just judge the entire game over 1 map and an alpha?

Dear god.


My friend, i'm sorry to wreck your faith in video games but 90% of the time its almost impossible to not be able to successfully predict a game's assets and focus based on months of gathering information, listening to the developer answer questions and how they approach them, and playing a portion of the game in real time. 
Just because this is Alpha stage with one map on rush mode with one vehicle, doesn't mean the gameplay will somehow change radically (in order to fit real conquest, which i doubt we're gonna have), or that vehicle management and game pacing will change radically..   Video games are not that diverse and surprising, lets get real.   
 
Yes, let's get real. Squad spawning doesn't work 90% of the time, many of the guns are clearly unfinished, Alan Kertz, senior gameplay designer on DICE (Demize99 on Twitter) has stated multiple times on his Twitter that the guns have been tweaked and continue to be tweaked since the alpha, the destruction has not been fully implemented, the scoring system is still WIP, spotting is still WIP and has not denied the commo rose
 
What do you have? An impression of the final game based on an alpha that doesn't even show half of what the game has to offer? You have absolutely no idea exactly what build and state this alpha is. You have absolutely no idea how far they have gone since this build. You have no idea if all the basic gameplay features (teams, squads, etc) are in the alpha or whether or not they have been refined or polished. They've said time and time again, the alpha is for very specific load and server testing. They got a game up and running and they require warm bodies to test the infrastructure and the Battlelog. If you're in the alpha trial, like I am, you would know how incomplete the alpha is and how DICE has emphasized that this is for testing purposes on the Battlelog news feed.
 
You're being absolutely ridiculous. Bitch if you don't like the final game, but don't act like this alpha is a representation of the final game. 
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SeriouslyNow

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@HandsomeDead said:

This thread is hilarious.

Pedestrian.

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Barrock

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So I loved the fuck out of the alpha. The biggest thing for me is being rewarded for suppressing fire. Game looks great and I didn't even adjust the settings. It also didn't make my graphics card 90 degrees.

What I don't like is the browser launch. I like that it just jumps you right into the game but making me install plugins and shit is annoying.

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SeriouslyNow

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@Ping5000: The game releases in a couple of months or so. This is the final game, just not all of it, save for some post release balancing via patches.

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Ping5000

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@SeriouslyNow: You're right. I can't believe I didn't see it until now. DICE has duped me. I have been duped.  
 
Just one question, light-bringer: How do you know this with absolute certainty when everything points to the contrary?
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SeriouslyNow

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@Ping5000 said:

@SeriouslyNow: You're right. I can't believe I didn't see it until now. DICE has duped me. I have been duped.

Just one question, light-bringer: How do you know this with absolute certainty when everything points to the contrary?

Once again, the game is a couple of months away from being sold at retail.

I'm not sure if you understand how game development works but this is the period where they do performance tuning and debugging, not where they do gameplay changing aspects of the development process. The game is essentially finished now, what people are playing in this 'Alpha' is how the game will play at release, with some minor change to weapon balance etc.

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Ping5000

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@SeriouslyNow said:

@Ping5000 said:

@SeriouslyNow: You're right. I can't believe I didn't see it until now. DICE has duped me. I have been duped.

Just one question, light-bringer: How do you know this with absolute certainty when everything points to the contrary?

Once again, the game is a couple of months away from being sold at retail.

I'm not sure if you understand how game development works but this is the period where they do performance tuning and debugging, not where they do gameplay changing aspects of the development process. The game is essentially finished now, what people are playing in this 'Alpha' is how the game will play at release, with some minor change to weapon balance etc.

Have you played the alpha? If you have, you would know how incomplete the game feels and plays. Also, you have no idea what build this alpha is. You have no idea how far (or, yes, how not far) they have gone since this build. The game is not "essentially finished". Just yesterday an alpha patch was released tweaking damage values. I'm not sure if either of us truly understand how game development works, but at least I'm not jumping towards any conclusions.
 
They're working on the game, many of the gameplay systems are still WIP and if you think they're just sitting on their hands doing nothing, then you better have some legitimate proof to back up your claim. 
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SeriouslyNow

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@Ping5000: "Just yesterday an alpha patch was released tweaking damage values"

Be rude some more. You don't understand you've just proved me right.

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Ping5000

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@SeriouslyNow: Oh, I should've finished with this. They're still testing the patching system, too. 
 
Seriously Now, just answer this question. Are you in the alpha trial?
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@Vodun said:

@Ahmad_Metallic: So if alpha is the second stage, what's the first?

What is the problem with 3D spotting? I love it, it's one of the most useful and wonderful additions that Bad Company made to BF to my mind. It promotes teamwork, and actually lets scouts be useful as scouts and not just some asshole sitting in a tree sniping.

Or perhaps you'd rather have people report in over voice chat, giving map coordinates to the enemy positions?

Everything has to be as complicated as possible. Anything streamlined is automatically bad. Etc.
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tim_the_corsair

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HYPERBOLE

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@Ahmad_Metallic:I'm going to disagree about the vehicle spawning, because the issues you listed are exactly the same for spawning on infantry. What if an infantry is in the air, swimming, or under fire? This is probably irrelevant though.

As for gameplay, it sounds like your only issue is with 3d spotting (which is a misnomer since the spotting icon does not scale with distance, so it's really 2d spotting), and I don't really have much to say. I liked spotting in Bad Company, and I'll probably like it here. I want to be clear about scoring though, that is something that can change if there is a good reason. In my experience, even the most open developer is accused of "not listening to fans", simply because of the volume of messages coming in, and the legitimate need to cater to people who disagree with you. If you want to know why there is spotting, make their job possible by distinguishing your questions from the masses with good formatting and grammar in the appropriate channels (not being accusatory, I think your posts are generally written fine). I can tell you DICE didn't become one of the most popular developers in the world by ignoring the majority of their fans.

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roughneck117

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@Ahmad_Metallic: Metallic, duder, chill, relax, take a deep fucking breath. Done? Alright.

Now, with the amount of love you have for the BF games, Im willing to bet that you're in the Alpha, maybe not initially, but you may have gotten the second, or third, round of invites DICE sent out. Hell if I got in with 2 vet. points, you must have gotten in. If you are in, then you must have played the game, and you have to have seen just how unfinished the game is. This is clearly not meant to be something that the public is meant to see. This is, clearly, something that has been put out for the sake of testing various aspects of the game in a closed environment. Unfortunately, due to the ease of recording, editing and publishing on the internet, its really not that surprising that there are so many leaks. Hell, I'm kinda shocked there arent more.

But heres the thing. THIS IS ALPHA. At this point, this game is terrible, maybe that a bit extreme, but its in a pretty bad shape right now. Having said that, I fucking love this game. Keep in mind that I just called this game terrible, but I still love. Why you ask? I love it because I can see how good this game is going to be, I can see how good DICE is going to make this game, and for that I love it.

Now, I am going to try to answer some of your questions, and some of the questions others may have. Basically I am going to try to put your fears to rest.

So, the sniper video you put up as a fuckup. Good. Fuck those snipey motherfuckers. We all knew that snipers were going to be a problem in this game with the ability to go prone. Having the scope light up is an awesome way for us to see where the snipers are, and take actions against them, and it kind of makes sense that it would be more promenint in the dark since its light reflecting, since its, you know, dark. Thats where we need it to appear. However, I havent seen those flashes in any of the game Ive played, and Ive been shot by snipers quite a lot. Hopefully they implement somekind of a killcam or something so I know the general direction of the shooter, but thats just me. Also, you dont really have that much time to be looking for flashes anyway. Theres so much shit going on that if you are looking around, theres going to be someone whos looking at you, and shooting at you.

The 3d spotting. You say that its unfair because it at big HEY LOOK HERE, SHOOT HERE FOR KILLS symbol. So I tried it, everytime I saw a red triangle I aimed at it and shot at it. I even tried it with a sniper rifle, which has a scope on it. Want to know how many kills I got?? None, zero, zilch, nada. However I did get spot assists for spotting a dude, and having someone else kill him, or the vehicle, when I wasnt playing engi. To be honest, I like the spot system. It adds a layer of teamwork that didnt exist in BF2. Sure I could pull up my Comm rose, and say "Theres a tank here dudes, someone should shoot it", but unless you kept looking at the mini map constantly, you had no idea where the tank was, or where anything else was. Hell, even if I could voice chat the location of the vehicle in the game, it wouldnt have mattered, because there would be no way for me to point out the direction of the tank.

Comm rose, well that is useless now. We have voice chat, anything that I need to say, Im going to say it. Im going to push a button and say it out loud. And even if the rose was avaliable, I would still say it, because its much more clearer, and I have more options in terms of what I want to say.

Holy shit this is getting long.

To end this, Im going to talk about points. Now there are probably more points that I havent gotten yet, but here are some of the ones I have gotten. Kill points, Bomb activation/ deactivitation points, revive points, suppression points, avenger points, revenge points, streak points, headshot points, spot assist points, vehicle points, supply points. Theres probably more that I dont know about, because I am pretty bad at FPSs in general, but I want you to look at the points I mentioned and tell me how many are teamplay based points and how many are just going around and shooting points.

There are problems with the game, the lag is fucking weird, weird graphical issues, connection/disconnection issues, the inability to customize controls, or even figure them out, the limited graphical options. There are problems, but the thing is, THIS IS A FUCKING ALPHA BUILD OF THE GAME. Do not, under any circumstances, take what you see, or what you play, if you do, as a measure of what the final build is going to be. Someone above mentioned that this game is in its final build, well that guy is a fucking idiot because if this is the way the final game is going to ship, EA is going to lose money, and DICE is going to lose, period.

So relax, chill, go play some AssCreed Bro. Stab some fools, and set up bombing runs on a fucking Sunday you fuck, I cant play on Saturdays.

Any questions, just let me know.

TL;DR Chill the fuck out ;-)

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Sick MS Paint skills duder. Game isn't even out yet. Save your complaining energy for when the game is out.

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I played the Alpha. From what I got to see im real dissapointed in the ability to spot people who are in bushes. The controls do not feel as good. I really hope they improve it soon. 

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AhmadMetallic

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@Ping5000 said:
Yes, let's get real. Squad spawning doesn't work 90% of the time
I didn't mention that in my complaints 
 
many of the guns are clearly unfinished
Whether the high bullet damage is to be tweaked or kept as it is, we don't know. I'd rather speak about it and have it fixed (or try to), rather than tell myself it's an alpha, and find the same damage models in the final build 
 
 the destruction has not been fully implementedthe scoring system is still WIPspotting is still WIP and has not denied the commo rose.  
thanks for the trouble of getting those links, but i've been stalking the DICE staff twitter for months :) 
1. I know about the destruction, and I didn't mention it in my complaints 
2. Oh really? I wonder why this WIP scoring system happens to have four extensive kill/unlockables screens almost done and ready, and a KD scoreboard, whereas the teamwork aspect is completely absent ? You're asking me to believe that THAT is due to it being unfinished? riiight.. it doesn't say anything about the design focus of the game  
I also wonder why so many ribbons, medals and XP points are ready for them to use in the alpha, and maybe 3 out of them are team-work based, whereas the rest (what, 30+ ?) are for the guns and kills. Yes, it must be the unfinished status..
3. DICE are known to be lying shits. 5 years with PC neglectance, and then came BC2 whose PC version they promised will have special treatment, and it turned out to be a poorly optimized port. During those years the threshold the game's accessibility was lowered (the words of DICE themselves) and they implemented more and more outrageous cod-like features to assist the player. Give me one reason why i shot swallow this "spotting is WIP" crap, i dare you! 
4. again, DICE's style is to say "no comment" or "we haven't ruled it out" or "we're in discussions about it" whenever they secretly decide to not include it (whatever it is). Nothing is wise or right about taking their word on it, because we might end up without it. I'd rather speak up and voice my concerns until they feel pressured enough to at LEAST communicate with us about it 
 
What do you have? An impression of the final game based on an alpha that doesn't even show half of what the game has to offer? You have absolutely no idea exactly what build and state this alpha is. You have absolutely no idea how far they have gone since this build. You have no idea if all the basic gameplay features (teams, squads, etc) are in the alpha or whether or not they have been refined or polished. They've said time and time again, the alpha is for very specific load and server testing. They got a game up and running and they require warm bodies to test the infrastructure and the Battlelog. If you're in the alpha trial, like I am, you would know how incomplete the alpha is and how DICE has emphasized that this is for testing purposes on the Battlelog news feed.
What I have is what i've said above. and in the OP. Don't use the "alpha" argument against me, you're mistaking me for an idiot who disses the limited destruction or calls Battlelog janky.. and I didn't. 
I realize Battlelog isn't finished, the destruction isn't finished, the classes are still being balanced, the graphics will be enhanced, the animation bugs will be fixed, etcetc.. 
 
Take a look at my complaints again, I don't even care about those bugs because even if they don't get fixed by launch, they'll be patched. 
 
My sole focus is the core gameplay, and like @SeriouslyNow said, that shit doesn't get radically changed and fixed later. The lack of player communication (everyone is mute, you need to go through SO MUCH trouble to express yourself and ask for something/order something), the fast arcadey pace, the spotting, the fast health regen and rare need for medics, the absolute absence of any teamplay feel on the battlefield. Those are all things that are in a severe state that i don't think DICE can turn around in 2 months, i mean, why would they build them like that in the first place? that doesn't make sense to spend a long time building it a certain way, then changing it all before launch, which means most of it was meant to stay. 
 
Also, i'd love for you to try and imagine a classic conquest map (sandboxy, flanking routes, exotic terrain with arbitrary flag placement, going rambo is futile) with this MOH/BC2-esque gameplay. 
Did i just blow your mind ?