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dagas

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Don't underestimate the players (why voices is a good idea)

It used to be common knowledge that western gamers didn't care for RPG's. They were too slow for us and there was just no way a western gamer would read text when we could play some action game. Then FF7 (first Final Fantasy to be released in EU) proved that if you make a good game people will play it even if it has a lot of text. 
 
It also used to be common knowledge that girls did not like games. Now we know that girls do like games. The SIms, WoW, Farmville, Singstar etc are all games with large number of female players. The reason why girls didn't play games before was that the games weren't interesting for them. The few games made for games were usually garbage and anytime a garbage game for girls failed they saw it as proof that they didn't like games instead of blaming the game for not being good enough. 
 
It also used to be common knowledge that people on the internet did not have the attention span to watch a video clip that was more than 5min long. Then Giantbomb came along and showed that if you make the content compelling enough people will watch 30min quick looks and even 100h endurence runs. 
 
So my point is that even though people say that MMO players don't have the patience to read quests much less listen to them I believe that the reason is mostly because quests in MMO's are so dumb that there is very little reason to. If you have played one "Go and collect 10 wolf pelts" you have pretty much played them all. The millions of copies of Mass Effect 2 sold proves that it's not just RPG players who enjoy a good story, even shooter fans like the game and if a very traditional RPG like Dragon Age can manage to sell a few million copies like it did, then I'm sure Star Wars The Old Republic won't be a flop. I don't think it will outsell WoW or anything crazy like that, but I think the focus of voice overs and a compelling story will prove to be a profitable one.  
 
It's easy to say that no MMO player care about the quest text when there is barely no quest text worth caring about. Just as it was easy to say that girls don't like games when all they had to play were some badly put together horse games.

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dagas

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Edited By dagas

It used to be common knowledge that western gamers didn't care for RPG's. They were too slow for us and there was just no way a western gamer would read text when we could play some action game. Then FF7 (first Final Fantasy to be released in EU) proved that if you make a good game people will play it even if it has a lot of text. 
 
It also used to be common knowledge that girls did not like games. Now we know that girls do like games. The SIms, WoW, Farmville, Singstar etc are all games with large number of female players. The reason why girls didn't play games before was that the games weren't interesting for them. The few games made for games were usually garbage and anytime a garbage game for girls failed they saw it as proof that they didn't like games instead of blaming the game for not being good enough. 
 
It also used to be common knowledge that people on the internet did not have the attention span to watch a video clip that was more than 5min long. Then Giantbomb came along and showed that if you make the content compelling enough people will watch 30min quick looks and even 100h endurence runs. 
 
So my point is that even though people say that MMO players don't have the patience to read quests much less listen to them I believe that the reason is mostly because quests in MMO's are so dumb that there is very little reason to. If you have played one "Go and collect 10 wolf pelts" you have pretty much played them all. The millions of copies of Mass Effect 2 sold proves that it's not just RPG players who enjoy a good story, even shooter fans like the game and if a very traditional RPG like Dragon Age can manage to sell a few million copies like it did, then I'm sure Star Wars The Old Republic won't be a flop. I don't think it will outsell WoW or anything crazy like that, but I think the focus of voice overs and a compelling story will prove to be a profitable one.  
 
It's easy to say that no MMO player care about the quest text when there is barely no quest text worth caring about. Just as it was easy to say that girls don't like games when all they had to play were some badly put together horse games.

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melcene

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Edited By melcene

But no. 
  
It's a shame, your main point is right on, but all of your "supporting arguments" are just garbage.   
 
 
Besides, everyone knows girls don't play video games.

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WinterSnowblind

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Edited By WinterSnowblind

Western RPG's with lots of text were popular long before FF7 was released.
Baldurs Gate?  Adventure games like Monkey Island..   TEXT adventures?

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Jeust

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Edited By Jeust
@melcene said:
" But no.   It's a shame, your main point is right on, but all of your "supporting arguments" are just garbage.     Besides, everyone knows girls don't play video games. "
Don't they? 
 
I agree with the bulk of your positions and arguments. I don't think developers have yet mastered female oriented gaming. The closer they got was the casual sect. 
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carlthenimrod

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Edited By carlthenimrod

I love good stories in games, but I couldn't care any less about the story in an MMO. The actual story in an MMO comes from my interaction with other human players. Not from reading quest logs or talking to NPCs. The MMO genre could use a lot of innovation, but shoehorning single-player qualities into it is something I'm just not interested in honestly.

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melcene

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Edited By melcene
@Jeust: Nah, they totally don't.  They're all too busy in the kitchen makin sammiches. 
 
So what precisely is this female-oriented gaming that developers have yet to master?
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Jeust

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Edited By Jeust
@melcene said:

" @Jeust: Nah, they totally don't.  They're all too busy in the kitchen makin sammiches.  So what precisely is this female-oriented gaming that developers have yet to master? "

Something akin to what Josei and Shôjo manga are. Something specially developed to cater woman and their tastes. Although I don't think much research has been put into it.  
 
I wasn't detrimental about it. 
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MikkaQ

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Edited By MikkaQ

My hope is that it raises the bar for other MMOs because goddamn, they're all terrible right now. 

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melcene

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Edited By melcene
@Jeust said:
Something specially developed to cater woman and their tastes.
Problem is that makes the assumption that women all have the same tastes, which simply isn't true, just as men don't have the same tastes.  Some men like sports games, some like racing games, some like RPGs.  Why must women be any different?  Personally, I think we already have what you're looking for in the latest Bioware games. 
 
Back to the original topic, the OP and I discussed this in private messages, but I think the main point of the thread is right... Hopefully can bring the awesomeness from their single player games into their MMO project.  But the problem is that means that the game will have to be fairly different from what we're used to.  Less "kill ten dudes" quests, and more Bioware choose your path quests.
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Jeust

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Edited By Jeust
@melcene said:

" @Jeust said:

Something specially developed to cater woman and their tastes.
Problem is that makes the assumption that women all have the same tastes, which simply isn't true, just as men don't have the same tastes.  Some men like sports games, some like racing games, some like RPGs.  Why must women be any different?  Personally, I think we already have what you're looking for in the latest Bioware games."
That is true, still games catered in terms of story and in artistic design geared towards female audiences is not something I see often.  
 
But I was stereotyping. 
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Deadmeat

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Edited By Deadmeat

I think voices are a great thing for a gamer like me. I realized long ago playing WOW when it came out and a few years of Everquest that MMO's are kinda a waste of time. In the tradtional grind levels, get loot, rinse repeat. Once my brain realized spending time for virtual items is pointless, but amazing interactive stories actually stay with me. Sure WoW has lore and story but it's not compelling or engrossing to me. Voices and Choice make a game so much more compelling to me. I'm personally going to be playing these as more of big single player game. I'm super excited at the addition of voice!  
 
I do agree with many MMO players having short attention spans. After 10,000 hours in a game or whatever crazy amount people put into these things you want to burn through stuff FAST FASTER, not my style but I'm sure you can just skip through the dialuge if your palying alone.