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Hailinel

I wrote this little thing (it's not actually a little thing): http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/hailinel/blog/lightning-returns-wha...

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Why I Love Dynasty Warriors, and Why That's Not Weird

That's
That's "Tsao Tsao", damn it!

Dynasty Warriors. Any time a new game in this series is released, you can count on a few things:

  • A staff member making a Yellow Turban Rebellion or "Cow Cow" quip.
  • Bafflement on the part of the staff as to how and why anyone could possibly enjoy these games.
  • People doing a poor job at explaining how and why they enjoy Dynasty Warriors.
  • Me shaking my head at it all before diving into the latest release head-first.

With this in mind, and with Dynasty Warriors 8 fresh on my brain, I thought I'd take the time to outline why it is that I enjoy the series in what I hope is the clearest manner possible. I can't speak for all fans of the series, but this is why I enjoy returning to ancient China again and again for the mass slaughtering of lots and lots of dudes. So please, @jeff, if you take the time to read this, I hope this will increase your understanding at least somewhat.

Reason #1: The Gameplay

Dynasty Warriors is not a complex game. It never has been. But it doesn't really need to be, either. People make fun of the basic move lists and combos, typically a string of normal attacks followed by one or two strong strikes, but that simplicity also makes it easily accessible, and it's no more simple than constantly pressing Left Trigger/Right Trigger in Call of Duty every year. But that simplicity is also key for another reason; the large casts of characters that make up the roster of each installment.

The Dynasty Warriors combo system, or charge system, is easy to adapt across a roster of seventy-odd characters. And rather than craft massive, independent move lists akin to Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry for each character, the variety comes in how each character plays against the standardized controls. There are slow characters, fast characters, characters that excel with short range or long range weapons. Some characters have musou attacks (essentially, supers) that deal greater damage to a small group of enemies while others are geared more toward a wider, less centralized area.

There's a rhythmic elegance in the apparent simplicity.
There's a rhythmic elegance in the apparent simplicity.

Despite common beliefs about the series in that every game is the same, the combat system has undergone a variety of changes over the years. In the PS2 era, particularly in the earlier entries, enemy soldiers were harder to take down, even on the normal difficulty setting. The act of wracking up a thousand kills in a stage was a greater challenge, but that was in part due to the limitations of the hardware the games ran on. Dozens of enemies couldn't appear on the screen of a PS2 game without the framerate slowing to a crawl. This changed with the PS3 and 360, and as the hardware has become more capable, the gameplay has adjusted as a result. Mook soldiers are much easier at the default, and it's far easier to wrack of in excess of a thousand kills in a given stage. But when a stage becomes too easy, there's always the option to crank up the difficulty and return to a stage with enemies that can give and take a much greater amount of damage.

Seriously, where did you get so many guys to chase after me?
Seriously, where did you get so many guys to chase after me?

So where does the satisfaction come in, when it's so easy to mow enemies down? Dynasty Warriors is a very cathartic game, and it's satisfying to clear out swarms of enemies, seeing that K.O. count roll to over a thousand, or two thousand, or more. And it definitely has its share of tense moments. A miscalculation can suddenly leave you with a sliver of health, running for your life as three officers are all giving chase among a crowd of enemy mooks. One wrong move and suddenly it's game over. One of my favorite memories of Dynasty Warriors, or really any game in general, was in Dynasty Warriors 4. The way that the Nanman Campaign stage was set up in that game, it was very easy to be put at a disadvantage very quickly, as allied morale would drop like a rock. Enemies swarmed the stage to the point that the minimap was completely red, and it was a tense battle just trying to get myself to the enemy leader Meng Huo, much less beat him. It's rare that the time limit in a normal Dynasty Warriors stage will come into actual play, but there I was, with only a few minute left on the clock and constantly in need of health and musou energy, until I finally managed to best Meng Huo and clear the stage. It was exhilarating.

The latter games, with their easier mooks, are not lacking for tense moments of their own. Just a few days ago in Dynasty Warriors 8 came a crazy moment where, mere seconds into the start of battle, I found myself surrounded by roughly five officers and countless mooks. Before I knew it, I had only a sliver of health left and I was left running for my life, hoping and praying that I could get enough musou energy to stage a comeback. Complicating matters, Dynasty Warriors 8 introduced a rock-paper-scissors element system in its weapons, and so all the while, I was swapping back and forth, trying to maintain the advantage over the officers right there in front of me while avoiding those that had the advantage over me. And this was on the normal difficulty setting.

Reason #2: The Source Material

Baller Time Reading
Baller Time Reading

When I first started playing Dynasty Warriors, beginning with Dynasty Warriors 3, I was not familiar with Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I hadn't read it, and I wasn't a student of Chinese history or literature. But one of the common elements included in the series is an encyclopedia of characters and a high-level synopsis of the era's events as chronicled in the novel. Rather than brush it aside, I ate it up. Over time, I read through every single character bio, from the major playable characters to the myriad "generic" officers, each with their own history, however brief they were summarized. That in turn spawned an interest in the period and its figures to the point that I began to do my own external reading on the figures and events that I found most interesting. And then, a few years ago, I finally sat down and read the novel.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a truly fascinating read. The numerous figures that come and go, the fighting and scheming, the mysticism, and just the sheer volume of it all is amazing. In finally reading the novel, I was able to gain an appreciation and understanding of the characters and events as they're portrayed in Dynasty Warriors for which I hadn't previously had the background. Even more so when Dynasty Warriors 7 was released with a revised story structure that, in its own arcade-like way, held truer to the narrative of the novel than the games that came before it.

Reason #3: The Characters

Zhang Chunhua, a new roster edition in Dynasty Warriors 8, quickly became a favorite of mine with the way her personality and relationships are portrayed. (And she's a looker, not gonna lie.)
Zhang Chunhua, a new roster edition in Dynasty Warriors 8, quickly became a favorite of mine with the way her personality and relationships are portrayed. (And she's a looker, not gonna lie.)

The cast of Dynasty Warriors has grown larger and larger with nearly every installment, and each time it's grown, the developer has, at least in my opinion, made the roster only better. Romance of the Three Kingdoms is rife with characters, both figures from history and those that are purely fictional. Beyond the most famous figures of the age like Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Guan Yu, it has to be a difficult task in not only choosing who to include, but how to portray them. Dynasty Warriors takes some pretty hefty liberties with the cast, and with the narrative as a result. Particularly in cases like Zhang He (depicted as a less a far less sociopathic and far more fabulous Vega from Street Fighter), or most of the female characters (the vast majority of whom were not actually all that warrior-like). Yet it's in this large, crazy mix that there are characters that could appeal to most anyone. Manly men, pretty boys, feminine ladies, and amazons, there's a full spectrum of character types on display. And though many of them fall into archetypes or stereotypes in their flanderized personalities, these simple traits make them stand out more, creating an entertaining mix of actors on display.

Reason #4: Understanding of What's Been Done Right and Wrong

It should be noted that as fans of Dynasty Warriors, we don't just lap up anything thrown to us. Case in point: Dynasty Warriors 6. The first entry in the franchise of the current console generation, it tried to reinvent Dynasty Warriors from the ground up. Some of what it brought to the table was OK, such as the greater options in maneuvering around maps (swimming, climbing ladders and such were finally implemented for the first time in this game). But the roster was dramatically cut back, ditching a large number of figures that had built up fanbases over the course of the PS2 era. I was particularly disappointed in the loss of Daqiao, one of my go-tos. They also completely changed the nature of how some characters played, with cloned combat styles and the loss of various signature weapons. Zhenji unable to fight with a flute, no matter how ridiculous as that may sound, was another major disappointment for me.

The Sign of the Beast.
The Sign of the Beast.

But the biggest strike against the game was the core of the combat system, which had been completely torn out and replaced with something called the Renbu system. A system that made it far, far too easy to launch into infinite combos, basically allowing the player to slash across the stage with ease and removing the strategies (yes, there are strategies) present in the charge system. It was so reviled that Omega Force ditched Renbu and returned to the previous combat system, finding new ways to build upon it in DW7 and 8. The full roster and many of the signature weapons also made their returns, and the end result is two entries that I feel rank among the very best that the franchise has to offer.

Are You Not Entertained?

Well, you don't have to be. Like any game, Dynasty Warriors is bound to have its fans and its detractors. But it's at least been my experience that the detractors don't bother making the effort to understand why the fans enjoy these games so much. Even in the comments section of the Dynasty Warriors 8 quick look, people made the same old, thoughtless quips that it looked and played like an Xbox or PS2 game, or that it hadn't changed and was just pressing X or square over and over. I'm not asking you to like Dynasty Warriors, but I am hopeful that, if you've taken the time to read this, that you have a better understanding of why at least I enjoy the games as I do.

I hope you've enjoyed the song of my people.
I hope you've enjoyed the song of my people.

And I'm totally up for answering any questions you might have.

125 Comments

126 Comments

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ArtisanBreads

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Edited By ArtisanBreads

I think your bit about how the gameplay has evolved in the last gen is part of why I have fallen out with the franchise as it's gone along.

I'm a big fan of military history and in general what I always loved about the series since the start was that it was basically a beat em up mixed with a big battlefield. Now moment to moment you are just killing so many guys that the scale really got thrown off for me.

Dynasty Warriors 6 was the turning point I guess?

@kaiunderneath said:

People who dismiss Dynasty Warriors and yet LOVE Diablo and other loot lust games baffle me. I mean Diablo is just clicking on things until they die, picking up stuff and then comparing said stuff to the stuff you picked up before. If you wanna be real reductive about it...which I do.

So the idea that they just "can't understand" Dynasty Warriors is weird to me. In Dynasty Warriors there is that you can pick up in the field, but there's also the loot in the form of characters that you're constantly unlocking and having to level up and stuff.

Yeah the games are all kinda similar, but so are all the loot lust games. I guess the major knock against Dynasty Warriors in comparison to Diablo is that a new Warriors game seems to come out every five minutes...while Diablo takes half a century.

I like this post.

Me too. Everyone is willing to play a repetitive game if it hits the notes they want.

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jclane

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Dynasty Warriors 6. Can't say I've heard of that one. Is that photo faked? Can't be real, always thought they accidentally skipped an entry is all, like Devil May Cry.

*goes back into corner whilst silently chanting "it doesn't exist, it can't hurt me*

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Fredchuckdave

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People who dismiss Dynasty Warriors and yet LOVE Diablo and other loot lust games baffle me. I mean Diablo is just clicking on things until they die, picking up stuff and then comparing said stuff to the stuff you picked up before. If you wanna be real reductive about it...which I do.

So the idea that they just "can't understand" Dynasty Warriors is weird to me. In Dynasty Warriors there is that you can pick up in the field, but there's also the loot in the form of characters that you're constantly unlocking and having to level up and stuff.

Yeah the games are all kinda similar, but so are all the loot lust games. I guess the major knock against Dynasty Warriors in comparison to Diablo is that a new Warriors game seems to come out every five minutes...while Diablo takes half a century.

I like this post.

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KaiUnderneath

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People who dismiss Dynasty Warriors and yet LOVE Diablo and other loot lust games baffle me. I mean Diablo is just clicking on things until they die, picking up stuff and then comparing said stuff to the stuff you picked up before. If you wanna be real reductive about it...which I do.

So the idea that they just "can't understand" Dynasty Warriors is weird to me. In Dynasty Warriors there is that you can pick up in the field, but there's also the loot in the form of characters that you're constantly unlocking and having to level up and stuff.

Yeah the games are all kinda similar, but so are all the loot lust games. I guess the major knock against Dynasty Warriors in comparison to Diablo is that a new Warriors game seems to come out every five minutes...while Diablo takes half a century.

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cikame

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I've only just gotten around to starting DW8 on PC, i wanted a good version of the game since DW7 on 360 was kind of a nightmare with frame rate and i doubted it would be fixed in 8 on that system.

The 60+fps is just what i needed to feel good about the game again, i've always enjoyed the series and after the moderate wait for a new PC version i'm right back in again.

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Rowr

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I just wanted to bump this thread.

Not just because the OP is well written, but mostly because everyone is probably being super tolerant right now so I figure I can get away with shameless DW support.

Actually mainly because Jeff on the bombcast this week justifying why he was playing that free to play MARVEL heroes game or whatever was like exactly the same reasoning behind some of my time with these games and I just wanted to point that out.

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Valendale

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Edited By Valendale

@hailinel said:

@valendale said:

It's a real shame, because the idiots at Koei's corporate offices think the reason Dynasty Warrior games didn't sell well on PC is because PC gamers have no interest in Arcade Beat'Em'Up games with tons of collectables and achievements. They don't seem to understand that the reason it did so poorly is because stores like GameStop were pulling it off the shelves because of returns, because they released two extremely broken ports on PC.

Koei doesn't seem to comprehend that when you sell a broken product and it does poorly, that doesn't mean people have no interest in the product, it means people don't want to buy or sell broken games they can't play.

I mean can you imagine this game on Steam, if it had full Controller Support, Online Play and Steam Achievements. It would sell like hot cakes, if Koei just understood that when you release a game, it has to be playable.

As much as I sympathize, the fact is that console-to-PC ports have a long history of not working out well. Dynasty Warriors games are not made with PC first and foremost in mind. And if they were having that much difficulty putting together worthwhile PC ports of their games, maybe they just felt it was easier to cut their losses and focus their development on console platforms.

But that's no excuse for releasing a product so broken that stores refused to sell it, refusing to ever even patch it so that it works properly, then assuming that the problem is that the audience isn't there for it, when in reality, the problem was the broken ass port that couldn't even have 50 things on the screen at a time if you got it to work.

I don't think the problem is that it's all that difficult to put a port together, I think the problem is that the people Koei paid to do it were con artists and Koei just never cared about PC gamers in the first place.

That said, this game really is perfect for Steam. There are a lot of controller based games out on PC now, and a lot of good ports done by good companies. Koei should look one of them up, get a real port done, put it on Steam, and have achievements for all the unlockables.

If they can put it on Xbox they can put it on PC, Xbox is just a second rate PC after all.

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Hailinel

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@jz said:

@hailinel: to be fair it was only tsao tsao starting in number 6.

Before that it was voiced in game as cow cow.

Yeah, I know. Still, just because the localization is bad doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit. :P

@hailinel said:

@mikelemmer said:

Do any of the Dynasty Warrior games still have the large-scale tactics/strategy of the old NES/SNES Romance of the Three Kingdoms games? Or have they all removed that in favor of arcade beat-em-up? Somedays I miss the old-school grand strategy games Koei used to put out.

(Also, Aerobiz forever.)

Dynasty Warriors isn't really a strategy series, though the Empires expansions typically have a stronger strategy element to them. Koei still produces Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition titles, but their U.S. branch localizes them very infrequently. I don't think that they've released a Nobunaga's Ambition or ROT3K title in North America since the PS2 era, which is a real shame. The closest we've gotten was their Pokemon Conquest strategy RPG (which was Pokemon X Nobunaga's Ambition in Japan).

I was a fan of Koei's old strategy games back when they still ported them to the US. ROT3K was too vague & complex for me to really get, but I loved Aerobiz & Genghis Khan 2. (Honorable mention to Rot3K4: Wall of Fire, which I might've actually understood if I had gotten a chance to play it.) I suspect my dislike of the Dynasty Warrior series stems from the feeling they replaced the strategy games I loved with it.

Honestly, a Dynasty Warriors game with an emergent narrative from high-level strategy could pique my interest.

Both series just play to different audiences, really, though I understand where you're coming from. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Dynasty Warriors on the next generation of consoles.

On the subject of Wall of Fire, though, Koei actually put the SNES version out on the Wii U Virtual Console a little while back. It hasn't aged that badly, all things considered.

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JZ

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@hailinel: to be fair it was only tsao tsao starting in number 6.

Before that it was voiced in game as cow cow.

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@hailinel said:

@mikelemmer said:

Do any of the Dynasty Warrior games still have the large-scale tactics/strategy of the old NES/SNES Romance of the Three Kingdoms games? Or have they all removed that in favor of arcade beat-em-up? Somedays I miss the old-school grand strategy games Koei used to put out.

(Also, Aerobiz forever.)

Dynasty Warriors isn't really a strategy series, though the Empires expansions typically have a stronger strategy element to them. Koei still produces Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition titles, but their U.S. branch localizes them very infrequently. I don't think that they've released a Nobunaga's Ambition or ROT3K title in North America since the PS2 era, which is a real shame. The closest we've gotten was their Pokemon Conquest strategy RPG (which was Pokemon X Nobunaga's Ambition in Japan).

I was a fan of Koei's old strategy games back when they still ported them to the US. ROT3K was too vague & complex for me to really get, but I loved Aerobiz & Genghis Khan 2. (Honorable mention to Rot3K4: Wall of Fire, which I might've actually understood if I had gotten a chance to play it.) I suspect my dislike of the Dynasty Warrior series stems from the feeling they replaced the strategy games I loved with it.

Honestly, a Dynasty Warriors game with an emergent narrative from high-level strategy could pique my interest.

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Hailinel

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Edited By Hailinel

Do any of the Dynasty Warrior games still have the large-scale tactics/strategy of the old NES/SNES Romance of the Three Kingdoms games? Or have they all removed that in favor of arcade beat-em-up? Somedays I miss the old-school grand strategy games Koei used to put out.

(Also, Aerobiz forever.)

Dynasty Warriors isn't really a strategy series, though the Empires expansions typically have a stronger strategy element to them. Koei still produces Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition titles, but their U.S. branch localizes them very infrequently. I don't think that they've released a Nobunaga's Ambition or ROT3K title in North America since the PS2 era, which is a real shame. The closest we've gotten was their Pokemon Conquest strategy RPG (which was Pokemon X Nobunaga's Ambition in Japan).

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MikeLemmer

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Do any of the Dynasty Warrior games still have the large-scale tactics/strategy of the old NES/SNES Romance of the Three Kingdoms games? Or have they all removed that in favor of arcade beat-em-up? Somedays I miss the old-school grand strategy games Koei used to put out.

(Also, Aerobiz forever.)

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Hailinel

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It's a real shame, because the idiots at Koei's corporate offices think the reason Dynasty Warrior games didn't sell well on PC is because PC gamers have no interest in Arcade Beat'Em'Up games with tons of collectables and achievements. They don't seem to understand that the reason it did so poorly is because stores like GameStop were pulling it off the shelves because of returns, because they released two extremely broken ports on PC.

Koei doesn't seem to comprehend that when you sell a broken product and it does poorly, that doesn't mean people have no interest in the product, it means people don't want to buy or sell broken games they can't play.

I mean can you imagine this game on Steam, if it had full Controller Support, Online Play and Steam Achievements. It would sell like hot cakes, if Koei just understood that when you release a game, it has to be playable.

As much as I sympathize, the fact is that console-to-PC ports have a long history of not working out well. Dynasty Warriors games are not made with PC first and foremost in mind. And if they were having that much difficulty putting together worthwhile PC ports of their games, maybe they just felt it was easier to cut their losses and focus their development on console platforms.

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Valendale

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Edited By Valendale

It's a real shame, because the idiots at Koei's corporate offices think the reason Dynasty Warrior games didn't sell well on PC is because PC gamers have no interest in Arcade Beat'Em'Up games with tons of collectables and achievements. They don't seem to understand that the reason it did so poorly is because stores like GameStop were pulling it off the shelves because of returns, because they released two extremely broken ports on PC.

Koei doesn't seem to comprehend that when you sell a broken product and it does poorly, that doesn't mean people have no interest in the product, it means people don't want to buy or sell broken games they can't play.

I mean can you imagine this game on Steam, if it had full Controller Support, Online Play and Steam Achievements. It would sell like hot cakes, if Koei just understood that when you release a game, it has to be playable, and were willing to patch them.

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laserbolts

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@mcghee said:

@jasonr86 said:

@hailinel:

You can like whatever you want to like and don't feel like you need to justify shit. Fuck everyone else.

As the resident Kpop prophet, I approve of this message.

This is respectable. I will say that much.

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Hailinel

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@valendale: I really don't have any experience with their PC ports. If they're crap, that's really a shame.

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Valendale

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I agree Dynasty Warriors is unjustly criticized for succeeding at being the type of game it is. It's an arcade beat'em'up that revolves around trying to meet targets and objectives, leveling up your character, unlocking new weapons characters outfits and horses, and generally just having fun. And they add new features with each installment so when reviewers give the game flak for being Dynasty Warriors, they're being idiots.

What the game does deserve criticism for is the terrible PC port so full of bugs and issues that were never fixed. I still get frustrated with units disappearing and popping in because the game arbitrarily limits the number of objects on screen, and the terrible draw distance, but what pissed me off the most was that I couldn't control the damn camera and it won't even let me rebind left/right on my right joystick so I had to rig the damn thing up with other buttons.

That's just sorry of them to release a game in such a bad state and never even patch it, I wish I knew of some community mod patch or something, because otherwise I love this game.

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Hailinel

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@yukoasho: For what it's worth, and I haven't checked PSN in a while so I don't know if it's available yet, the Japanese voice track is being made available as a free download, just as it was for Dynasty Warriors 7.

As far as the 360 version goes, I read yesterday that apparently the patch meant to address the framerate issue has been released, but I have no idea how effective it is. You're right though, in that the 360 version will likely not parity with the PS3 without significant work.

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Edited By yukoasho

Well I picked up the game, and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Haven't really done much of the story mode, sticking mainly to Ambition to get some levels on a few characters (the Academy later on in Ambition is a damned blessing!).

At first, I was somewhat worried about the idea of any character being able to use any weapon, as that seemed to take away from the uniqueness of the cast in Orochi 3, but I find that the max affinity system helps to keep things unique, since it's not as effective to use a weapon for which you can only achieve a one-or-two star compatibility, and since you always need at least one favorite weapon to do your EX (something that's downright INSANE on some of the characters), there's plenty to keep the characters from being completely generic.

One thing I do wish, however, is that there was an option to switch to the original Japanese voice track. I'm not entirely keen on some of the English actors I've heard so far, particularly Sun Quan, who sounds more like a voice for TV commercials than a badass warlord.

@slag said:

@hailinel said:

And here's some high-level play of Dynasty Warriors 8 with a maxed-out character on the highest difficulty setting.

Loading Video...

That's PS3 I'm assuming?

If so than man GB really should have Quick Looked the PS3 version. Holy cow does that look a million times better than the 360 version they showed. The framerate is incredibly better, glad that would be the version I'd potentially play.

Well I think you sold me. Once /if I get through this massive backlog I just built up with summer sales and whatnot I think I'll give DW another go.

Actually, the 360 version was put together after the Japanese release. There wasn't a Japanese 360 version. That, I imagine, is a large part of the problem with that version. Since the game was designed by Omega Force as a PS3 exclusive in Japan, there was likely no end of problems in getting it ported to the 360. Honestly, I'm not sure they'll ever get version parity.

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Edited By jakob187

@hailinel: No one can ever take away our love of Koei's Warrior games. Fuck the haters #YOLO #SWAG

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Hailinel

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@phatmac said:

Which game would you recommend for someone to start out with this series?

If you have a PS3, Dynasty Warriors 8 is a good a place as any to start. The 360 version might be a good recommendation as well down the line once the patch they're working on is released, assuming it helps. If you have a 360, I highly recommend Dynasty Warriors 7 for its Story and Conquest modes.

@wsninja said:

Lets not joke around here....we all know the Dynasty Warriors Gundam series is the best because Zechs Marquise! r-right fellas? heheheh

Well, I won't say you're wrong, anyway. :P

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Which game would you recommend for someone to start out with this series?

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wsninja

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Lets not joke around here....we all know the Dynasty Warriors Gundam series is the best because Zechs Marquise! r-right fellas? heheheh

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Hailinel

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@mrfluke: Sounds interesting. I'll see if I can track that down. (I have quite the movie backlog building up on me.)

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mrfluke

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@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

yea no worries. that movie really to me real invokes dynasty warriors. it was a pretty awesome movie.

i watched it through illicit means (cause it is a foreign movie, not that easy to legally find in the US) but i believe it is on netflix now.

just a heads up though, there's 2 versions of that movie, a theatrical version

and the international version

i think netflix only has the theatrical version, you would want the international version.

Fortunately, there's a domestic Blu-ray edition of the international version readily available on Amazon.

thats the one you will want to get,

Already bought it. :)

Also, like you and @truthtellah, I enjoy Hero, though I haven't seen the other movies you've both listed. At least, as far as I can recall. I'll have to rectify that at some point.

i think your gonna dig that movie, just know that combined, that uncut version is like 4-5 hours long.

the warlords is crazy, it does have the big chinese battles that we all love , but just the story that it tells is really something else, ill just leave it at that. it kind of resonated with me.

for what its worth, warlords is set during the Taiping Rebellion of the 1860's

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MikkaQ

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For me Dynasty Warriors was a game I really enjoyed for one entry (3) and then after that found the rest too samey for my liking. I get the appeal of a kinda mashy and mindless hack-em-up or whatever, but I just think Dynasty Warriors looks and feels a little too cheap. I want a little more flair and polish to my mindless games.

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Hailinel

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@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

yea no worries. that movie really to me real invokes dynasty warriors. it was a pretty awesome movie.

i watched it through illicit means (cause it is a foreign movie, not that easy to legally find in the US) but i believe it is on netflix now.

just a heads up though, there's 2 versions of that movie, a theatrical version

and the international version

i think netflix only has the theatrical version, you would want the international version.

Fortunately, there's a domestic Blu-ray edition of the international version readily available on Amazon.

thats the one you will want to get,

Already bought it. :)

Also, like you and @truthtellah, I enjoy Hero, though I haven't seen the other movies you've both listed. At least, as far as I can recall. I'll have to rectify that at some point.

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mrfluke

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Edited By mrfluke

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

yea no worries. that movie really to me real invokes dynasty warriors. it was a pretty awesome movie.

i watched it through illicit means (cause it is a foreign movie, not that easy to legally find in the US) but i believe it is on netflix now.

just a heads up though, there's 2 versions of that movie, a theatrical version

and the international version

i think netflix only has the theatrical version, you would want the international version.

Fortunately, there's a domestic Blu-ray edition of the international version readily available on Amazon.

thats the one you will want to get, with how you're a fan of this Chinese dynasty stuff, i think your gonna love that movie.

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mrfluke

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@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

yea no worries. that movie really to me real invokes dynasty warriors. it was a pretty awesome movie.

i watched it through illicit means (cause it is a foreign movie, not that easy to legally find in the US) but i believe it is on netflix now.

just a heads up though, there's 2 versions of that movie, a theatrical version

and the international version

i think netflix only has the theatrical version, you would want the international version.

Fortunately, there's a domestic Blu-ray edition of the international version readily available on Amazon.

ooo Are we just discussing awesome Chinese battle movies? Because Hero and Curse of the Golden Flower are two of my favorites. :)

truth tellah speaking more truth here, those are awesome movies.(hero especially, loved that movie)

couple of my favorites is red cliff, and the warlords.

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TruthTellah

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@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

yea no worries. that movie really to me real invokes dynasty warriors. it was a pretty awesome movie.

i watched it through illicit means (cause it is a foreign movie, not that easy to legally find in the US) but i believe it is on netflix now.

just a heads up though, there's 2 versions of that movie, a theatrical version

and the international version

i think netflix only has the theatrical version, you would want the international version.

Fortunately, there's a domestic Blu-ray edition of the international version readily available on Amazon.

ooo Are we just discussing awesome Chinese battle movies? Because Hero and Curse of the Golden Flower are two of my favorites. :)

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@mrfluke said:

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

yea no worries. that movie really to me real invokes dynasty warriors. it was a pretty awesome movie.

i watched it through illicit means (cause it is a foreign movie, not that easy to legally find in the US) but i believe it is on netflix now.

just a heads up though, there's 2 versions of that movie, a theatrical version

and the international version

i think netflix only has the theatrical version, you would want the international version.

Fortunately, there's a domestic Blu-ray edition of the international version readily available on Amazon.

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mrfluke

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Edited By mrfluke

@hailinel said:

@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

yea no worries. that movie really to me real invokes dynasty warriors. it was a pretty awesome movie.

i watched it through illicit means (cause it is a foreign movie, not that easy to legally find in the US) but i believe it is on netflix now.

just a heads up though, there's 2 versions of that movie, a theatrical version

and the international version

i think netflix only has the theatrical version, you would want the international version.

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Hailinel

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@mrfluke said:

real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

*Googles*

Damn, that does sound awesome. Thanks for pointing me to that!

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mrfluke

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real off topic, but you would really dig the movie "red cliff"

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@jasonr86 said:

@hailinel:

You can like whatever you want to like and don't feel like you need to justify shit. Fuck everyone else.

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I have a friend that's a huge fan of the series, and he pretty much feels the sameway as you. Though for me not so much at all, the last DW game I enjoyed abit was strikeforce, and that's because it tried to do something new by making you feel like a super saiyan.

The series as a whole never really evolved its gameplay formula much. Every new entry was always just small improvements but nothing special. Fighting waves and waves of enemies gets boring fast to me, and for most part its always the same story, but its just my opinion.

Though I usually end up arguing with my friend, because we both have different views of the DW series.

I played a bit of the first Strikeforce. It was really interesting, though I didn't really get into it much at the time. I wasn't really expecting a Dynasty Warriors take on Monster Hunter, which is what those games essentially are. I should probably give it another go at some point.

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I have a friend that's a huge fan of the series, and he pretty much feels the sameway as you. Though for me not so much at all, the last DW game I enjoyed abit was strikeforce, and that's because it tried to do something new by making you feel like a super saiyan.

The series as a whole never really evolved its gameplay formula much. Every new entry was always just small improvements but nothing special. Fighting waves and waves of enemies gets boring fast to me, and for most part its always the same story, but its just my opinion.

Though I usually end up arguing with my friend, because we both have different views of the DW series.

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Hailinel

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I broke down and bought this today finally. Only cost 10 bucks after I traded in Injustice and Bioshock: Infinite.

Only played it for an hour or so but already worth it, didn't like those 2 games at all.

I have wierd gaming tastes XD

Nah, not weird. I haven't even played Infinite, much less bought it.

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deactivated-629ec706f0783

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I broke down and bought this today finally. Only cost 10 bucks after I traded in Injustice and Bioshock: Infinite.

Only played it for an hour or so but already worth it, didn't like those 2 games at all.

I have wierd gaming tastes XD

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Edited By Hailinel

@slag: Yep, it's the PS3 version, all right.

@hunter5024 said:

@hailinel: So I meant to ask, how does this game handle "Other" characters, like Diao Chan or Lu Bu? Are they just unplayable in the story mode?

You have to unlock them first, but characters like Lu Bu and Diaochan are playable. They each have story mode scenarios as well under the Other category, but they aren't nearly as long or as involved as the faction storylines.

*Edited for trying to use grammar close to midnight. Now it should make sense.*

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Fuck I can't buy any more games, August is too packed, but now I really want DW8.

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I'm also a fan of the series, but I think I come from a different angle. The thing that keeps me coming back is being part of a larger overall battle that I have an impact on. I really like the parade of little side objectives and how your success or failure at them can bring on momentum swings that completely change the tone of the battle, possibly culminating in your army mobbing the final enemy general or you having to desperately defend your base. That side of things doesn't really get explored to the extent I would like. DW6 actually took some steps farther down that road and it's still my favorite of the series, but it seems like they're committed to heading back after the backlash. Anyway I wouldn't call the games masterpieces but I haven't found anything else that scratches that same itch like it, so I keep on coming back. Some nostalgia for the ridiculous voice acting and characters doesn't hurt either.

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Ehh, I still find those games awful and boring but that's cool if you can enjoy them. They obviously are still being made for some reason.

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Edited By Hunter5024

@hailinel: So I meant to ask, how does this game handle "Other" characters, like Diao Chan or Lu Bu? Are they just unplayable in the story mode?

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Edited By Slag

@hailinel said:

And here's some high-level play of Dynasty Warriors 8 with a maxed-out character on the highest difficulty setting.

Loading Video...

That's PS3 I'm assuming?

If so than man GB really should have Quick Looked the PS3 version. Holy cow does that look a million times better than the 360 version they showed. The framerate is incredibly better, glad that would be the version I'd potentially play.

Well I think you sold me. Once /if I get through this massive backlog I just built up with summer sales and whatnot I think I'll give DW another go.

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@slag: Just for the sake of comparison, here's some footage of Dynasty Warriors 3 (in all it's horrendously English dubbed glory):

Loading Video...

And here's some high-level play of Dynasty Warriors 8 with a maxed-out character on the highest difficulty setting.

Loading Video...

That juggling! This is some mastery at work here.

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@hailinel said:

@slag: The thing about Call of Duty is that, even though you're using the right-stick to turn and aim, it still allows for far less precision than would be asked for in other FPS titles. The moment you hit Left Trigger, you lock on to a target. In a way, that's really not so different from the most basic requirement of dealing damage in Dynasty Warriors being that you're actually facing the enemy and have them within your weapon's reach.

fair enough. At this point it becomes mainly a question of perception. To me it's still different enough, but I can see your point of view.

The series still has ranged attacks, but nothing like you might remember. In the old PS2 games, the characters could all fire arrows, but that was eventually dropped. In the last several entries, weapons available have included throwing knives, a bow and arrows, a crossbow and the like. That being said, the series combat has grown in general since the PS2 era with characters being able to equip two weapons that can be swapped on the fly and more recently the rock-paper-scissors mechanic. If the last game in the series you played was on the PS2, you might be surprised at how much things have actually changed since then.

OOoo two weapons, that does sound much better. I didn't see much that jumped out at me in the Quick Look, but I did like the weapon trinity idea.

I want say DW 4 was the last I played, although might have been 3 (I rented them). The one I played the most of was definitely 2 (which I own). So yeah been awhile. :)

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Hailinel

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@slag: The thing about Call of Duty is that, even though you're using the right-stick to turn and aim, it still allows for far less precision than would be asked for in other FPS titles. The moment you hit Left Trigger, you lock on to a target. In a way, that's really not so different from the most basic requirement of dealing damage in Dynasty Warriors being that you're actually facing the enemy and have them within your weapon's reach.

The series still has ranged attacks, but nothing like you might remember. In the old PS2 games, the characters could all fire arrows, but that was eventually dropped. In the last several entries, weapons available have included throwing knives, a bow and arrows, a crossbow and the like. That being said, the series combat has grown in general since the PS2 era with characters being able to equip two weapons that can be swapped on the fly and more recently the rock-paper-scissors mechanic. If the last game in the series you played was on the PS2, you might be surprised at how much things have actually changed since then.

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@hailinel said:

Reason #1: The Gameplay

Dynasty Warriors is not a complex game... but that simplicity also makes it easily accessible, and it's no more simple than constantly pressing Left Trigger/Right Trigger in Call of Duty every year. But that simplicity is also key for another reason; the large casts of characters that make up the roster of each installment.

The Dynasty Warriors combo system, or charge system, is easy to adapt across a roster of seventy-odd characters....There are slow characters, fast characters, characters that excel with short range or long range weapons. Some characters have musou attacks (essentially, supers) that deal greater damage to a small group of enemies while others are geared more toward a wider, less centralized area.

...A miscalculation can suddenly leave you with a sliver of health, running for your life as three officers are all giving chase among a crowd of enemy mooks....

Hey Hailinel!

Fun Blog man, always fun to read about somebody's passion for a game/series. I think I'm going to get off my butt and actually read Romance of the Three Kingdoms now, it's been on my to read list for over a decade.

Points 2-onward I'm pretty much on board with. I'm not sure the characters are that well defined, but given the enormous size of the cast they have they do a pretty good job of at least making them look unique. Which in my mind is the main thing a game like DW needs to do.

Point 1 is where Dynasty Warriors (and Drakengard which to me is very similar in some of its' mechanics) tends to lose me. Just a personal taste kind of thing and this is just my personal take on the older games (as you may remember I admittedly have not touched this series since the PS2 era)

In a way DW reminds me of Arena League Football. Don't know if you ever seen a game of it, but the major difference between AFL and NFL in my opinion is not the walls, amount of players or shortened field but rather the scoring. In AFL games teams basically seem to score on 80-90% of their possessions, which devalues the dramatic value of a Touchdown's specialness because it happens with such frequency. There isn't that drama/tension like there is in the NFL where you don't know which of the four outcomes will happen on any drive (touchdown, field goal, punt, or turnover).

The breathtaking power and ease which you tear through dudes in DW is simply awesome, but like the touchdown in the AFL it loses its' appeal to me fairly quickly because it's so constant. And to make matters worse I feel like I end up just pressing square for an hour or so with the occasional musou when I'm near a named opponent. I do agree that they do a good job of mixing up the Musous between characters, enough so that there are some I really struggle to use effectively. But you only get to change characters between stages, which can take a good while for me anyway since I'm usually shooting to max kill counts before the timer runs out.

And you're right it's surprisingly easy to get yourself into trouble quickly, but for me at least I find that happens because I start to zone out and not pay as close attention as I should be.

I do agree with you that the fact it is so simple makes it very accessible and easy to switch characters realtively easily (one of the things that makes Smash Bros. such great games and a massive improvement that was made to DOTA 2 from DotA).

Most games are too probably too complex for their own good but DW feels to me its' one mechanical requirement short of greatness. I think that's all it might need.

You mentioned left trigger/right trigger with CoD. That's true but CoD and shooters like it, has another mechanical requirement that makes a big difference in keeping it feeling dynamic and variable. That's aiming with the right analog stick. You don't really need to aim with anywhere near the same kind of precision in DW, expect for the occasional ranged attack (do they still have those?). So there is one less component in DW imo than FPS games. Which for me is why one feels varied and the other can feel monotonous.

Just give me one more mechanical consideration so I'm not hyper conscious of how much I'm continually mashing Square and I'd be in love with this series once again.

just my two cents on the series, but I really ought to give it another go. Its been awhile.