Hi Everybody

 They estimate that, in Canada, the societal costs attributable to smoking for 1993 were approximately $11 billion, of which $3 billion was spent on direct health care costs such as hospitalization and physician time. The remaining $8 billion was due to lost productivity. In comparison, it is estimated that in 1993/94, revenue from taxes on cigarettes totalled $2.6 billion.    

Your post?  tl;dr.  My answer to your title?  It's their right and choice. 
 
Personally?  Legalize it all, because if we've already legalized the worst of them all (alcohol), then there's no point in the rest being illegal.

Great post, very educational. I agree that the society as a whole should not be crippled but the taxation should be extracted from the individual so that it hits his wallet and hopefully will teach something.  
 
Be warned, we are full of ignorant people here, you won't get much praise :P. 
 
Heres my post from the other forum:    @ESREVER said: 

" I would vote no, because...  
@FancySoapsMan said: 

" ...potheads are annoying. "    

And personally I can't stand the smell of it.   Then again, if it was strictly for personal use at the home, I don't really see a problem with it. I don't know... I'm against things that alter one's state of mind, but I know people get pleasure/enjoyment out of it, and I don't feel like I'm in a position to say they can't have that enjoyment. They say there will be a system put in place to prevent driving while under the influence, but I doubt it would be successful.  Ugh, I'm all wishy-washy on this subject. Saying no it shouldn't be allowed makes me feel like a hypocrite because I'm basing that on stereotypical potheads. It's the same way a person not familiar with the content would judge someone who is into videogames/anime.  I think I'll just throw my hands up off this subject, and hope Texas doesn't have to deal with such a prop anytime soon. My writing teacher is right, I'm fucking terrible at making an argument. "

Man, I just think weed is for chilling out and relaxing aft- OH MY FUCKING GOD VIEWTIFUL JOE IS POSTING ON GIANT BOMB!  WHAT THE FUCK I THOUGHT HE STOPPED MAKING GAMES!

" Man, I just think weed is for chilling out and relaxing aft- OH MY FUCKING GOD VIEWTIFUL JOE IS POSTING ON GIANT BOMB!  WHAT THE FUCK I THOUGHT HE STOPPED MAKING GAMES! "

I don't do drugs, never have, probably never will, but anyone who doesn't support Prop 19 is neither rational nor logical in my mind. Also your graph is ludicrous, I seriously hope you don't take that psychology thing very seriously.

How about private health insurance, where irresponsible behaviour leads to increased premiums, and healthy behaviour leads to reduced premiums, but all are free to live as they choose?
 
That'd be nice...

Well yah, here in Canada we essentially pay for everyone's healthcare through taxes. I'm all for helping out everyone, but not if theyre going to do something stupid like cause someone else harm or themselves harm because they were drunk or on a heroine binge. People who are on record more than once or a couple of times should start getting charged for their hospital bills, it's that simple. 
 
I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's 'rightful choice'. I respect the idea of free choice, and all the power to them, but they should eventually be taken off free healthcare if they choose to do those things.

Super interesting social issue. As a former user of many different substances in my high school days, prop 19 is a thing I used to really get behind. After seeing the number of regularly-smoking freinds lose all motivation, fall into depression (with one eventual suicide), due to the substance im not such a great believer in it being the "safe" drug it's touted to be. 
On the other hand, as some people have noted, people probably should be free to do such things, and cutting down on the crime aspect of drug dealing could have significant advantages. 
 
Also, in answer to your question " Why do people enjoy abusing their bodies with substances?", because it's fun? And (pulling some behavioral economics into this) many people significantly discount costs that are not immediate (eg. health problems), which makes the overall benefit (fun!) seem greater than the future cost. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_discounting)

I should probably point out that I smoke cigarettes and drink.  That's it.  I smoked pot for about 7 years or so, and while I enjoyed it, I can definitely say I don't miss it and I'm glad I don't toke anymore.  I'm all for education against doing drugs. 
 
However, I'm not going to sit here and play like I'm some high and mighty person to decide what someone does with their bodies.  The only real concern comes with public intoxication, and even then, it's not like keeping it illegal is going to stop that scenario anyways.  Might as well legalize it so we're filling the jail cells with people that are actually committing crimes, not sitting around the house and shooting up, then vegging out. 
 
It's not like legalizing pot means everyone in the nation is going to start toking.  It doesn't mean that legalizing heroin means everyone is going to shoot up.  It DOES mean that the drug cartels get assfucked.  It DOES mean we empty jail cells that hold people who were busted for less than a joint in their possession.  It DOES mean that regulations can be set for the grade and potency of these drugs. 
 
I was against the legalization of any of it for a long time, even to the point of saying that alcohol should be illegal.  However, in the long run, the realization that illegality doesn't change anything has made me realize that it's better to just legalize it, tax it, and create jobs from it. 
 
Hell, we allow late-term abortions in this country, and that's something more horrific to me than snorting a line.

" I completely agree that taxes should be used to compensate for negative externalities caused by an individual's actions.  Its not so much that i want the tax to act as a deterant, people should be free to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect other people, but they should bear the full cost of such an activity.  I hope pot gets legalized everywhere, its immoral to push your beliefs on someone when it doesn't affect you. "

Anyone who says "they don't do drugs" is a hypocrite if they drink alochol. 
 
@gamefreak9: That's horseshit. The VAST majority of people drink alcohol because of the effects. I highly doubt many people (if anyone at all) would drink booze if it didn't get you drunk. Case and point: barely anyone drinks non-alcoholic beer.

If you ingest THC by vaporizing Cannabis buds you're not doing any harm to your body. Also, if you've had a drink of alcohol, soda, or coffee, you've done drugs.

"

  I would like to mention that I am Canadian and Prop 19 does not affect me, I also do enjoy a drink but have never done drugs.  

I have tried Marijuana and can say I didn't enjoy the experience that I got with it but I know people who can just relax and become peaceful. It's up to people what they do with their bodies, you have one life so live it the way you see fit.
 
My only question is, why the hell is alcohol legal but not marijuana?

" How about private health insurance, where irresponsible behaviour leads to increased premiums, and healthy behaviour leads to reduced premiums, but all are free to live as they choose?  That'd be nice... "

Here we go...

" Great post, very educational. I agree that the society as a whole should not be crippled but the taxation should be extracted from the individual so that it hits his wallet and hopefully will teach something.  
 
Be warned, we are full of ignorant people here, you won't get much praise :P. 
 
Heres my post from the other forum:    @ESREVER said: 

" I would vote no, because...  
@FancySoapsMan said: 

" ...potheads are annoying. "    

And personally I can't stand the smell of it.   Then again, if it was strictly for personal use at the home, I don't really see a problem with it. I don't know... I'm against things that alter one's state of mind, but I know people get pleasure/enjoyment out of it, and I don't feel like I'm in a position to say they can't have that enjoyment. They say there will be a system put in place to prevent driving while under the influence, but I doubt it would be successful.  Ugh, I'm all wishy-washy on this subject. Saying no it shouldn't be allowed makes me feel like a hypocrite because I'm basing that on stereotypical potheads. It's the same way a person not familiar with the content would judge someone who is into videogames/anime.  I think I'll just throw my hands up off this subject, and hope Texas doesn't have to deal with such a prop anytime soon. My writing teacher is right, I'm fucking terrible at making an argument. "

I think buying it should be legal but smoking it illegal, still get the income but you don't get the worthless uneducated community full of potheads come up with all kinds of BS on how to its not that bad for you. Truth is, its not that bad health wise, however, if you smoke and get high, for the rest couple of hours you will be unproductive, and that in all will breed more idiots.   So yeah, like this people would buy it from w/e state, and sell it in other countries, this would breed income to the state with legal buying power.     The point of the Law is to keep society from stumbling into chaos not give you right so you can feel cool or open minded, or progressive, and legalizing something that inherently is done for the mind effect, and is widely know for making people do stupid shit is not a step in the right direction. Alcohol's effects are not as potent and are much rarer, did you know one in 40 adults gets drunk when drinking?   Most people past a certain age don't drink alcohol for the effects, but for the taste, and even so i also think with this progress in society from blue collar to white collar, people will be using their minds more, and so alcohol itself should be regulated if not halted so that society can rise up to meet this new challenge instead of lag behind rotting while spewing the same shit they have always been.   "

"

Hi Everybody

  I also do enjoy a drink but have never done drugs.

"

" My only question is, why the hell is alcohol legal but not marijuana? "

I've read Ke$ha's works profusely and i'll say social traditions?

" Anyone who says "they don't do drugs" is a hypocrite if they drink alochol. 
 
@gamefreak9: That's horseshit. The VAST majority of people drink alcohol because of the effects. I highly doubt many people (if anyone at all) would drink booze if it didn't get you drunk. Case and point: barely anyone drinks non-alcoholic beer. "

" @gamefreak9 said:

" Great post, very educational. I agree that the society as a whole should not be crippled but the taxation should be extracted from the individual so that it hits his wallet and hopefully will teach something.  
 
Be warned, we are full of ignorant people here, you won't get much praise :P. 
 
Heres my post from the other forum:    @ESREVER said: 

" I would vote no, because...  
@FancySoapsMan said: 

" ...potheads are annoying. "    

And personally I can't stand the smell of it.   Then again, if it was strictly for personal use at the home, I don't really see a problem with it. I don't know... I'm against things that alter one's state of mind, but I know people get pleasure/enjoyment out of it, and I don't feel like I'm in a position to say they can't have that enjoyment. They say there will be a system put in place to prevent driving while under the influence, but I doubt it would be successful.  Ugh, I'm all wishy-washy on this subject. Saying no it shouldn't be allowed makes me feel like a hypocrite because I'm basing that on stereotypical potheads. It's the same way a person not familiar with the content would judge someone who is into videogames/anime.  I think I'll just throw my hands up off this subject, and hope Texas doesn't have to deal with such a prop anytime soon. My writing teacher is right, I'm fucking terrible at making an argument. "

I think buying it should be legal but smoking it illegal, still get the income but you don't get the worthless uneducated community full of potheads come up with all kinds of BS on how to its not that bad for you. Truth is, its not that bad health wise, however, if you smoke and get high, for the rest couple of hours you will be unproductive, and that in all will breed more idiots.   So yeah, like this people would buy it from w/e state, and sell it in other countries, this would breed income to the state with legal buying power.     The point of the Law is to keep society from stumbling into chaos not give you right so you can feel cool or open minded, or progressive, and legalizing something that inherently is done for the mind effect, and is widely know for making people do stupid shit is not a step in the right direction. Alcohol's effects are not as potent and are much rarer, did you know one in 40 adults gets drunk when drinking?   Most people past a certain age don't drink alcohol for the effects, but for the taste, and even so i also think with this progress in society from blue collar to white collar, people will be using their minds more, and so alcohol itself should be regulated if not halted so that society can rise up to meet this new challenge instead of lag behind rotting while spewing the same shit they have always been.   "

Ever hear the phrase "arbeit macht frei"? Laws don't exist for social engineering, they exist to deter the victimization of others via coercion. "

" @jakob187: Hence, the "vast majority". If alcoholic effects disappeared from those beverages only a very tiny niche would remain of people who actually drink because they enjoy the taste. 
 
@gamefreak9: 24 and I know that those same people enjoy the slight buzz also. Believe me, alcohol would lose most of it's appeal for th vast majority of people if the effects related to drinking it were to vanish. You're right about the non-alcoholic beer though, that was my bad. "

drugs are mmkay. i don't know why people do drugs. i barely even drink, my last drink was last weekend, it was one drink. i don't like the feeling of any kind of drug.

Why do people think it's cool to tell other people how to live their lives? 

"Why do people think it's cool to tell other people how to live their lives? 

                   

                "

People do drugs because they think it is fun, same thing as having sex, playing sports, playing video games, socializing, there is nothing more to it.

Hey Adam,
 
Judging by your profile pic, it seems that you enjoy abusing your body with porn. Why?

" @CH3BURASHKA said:

"Why do people think it's cool to tell other people how to live their lives? 

                   

                "

Because if other people living their lives affects someone elses life negatively then you've got a problem. "

" @Aronman789: Okay, theres alot more to it actually, theres alot of rebellion, self punishment, and escapism as well connected with doing drugs of all kind including (maybe especially) alcohol. "  

Well, here's the message I got: you're trying to signal to other forum goers that your "online" life is based on two vices, videogaming and porn consumption. I must be wrong though. So anyway, how much porn -do- you watch a day?

Anyways, Adam, you seem really worried about the actuarial impact of adverse lifestyle decisions.
 
Would
it
surprise
you
to
learn
that....
 Fat smokers are actually - really- cheap for the Canadian social safety net (I'm analyzing holistically here, so I'm considering net consumption of services and gratuities including pension benefits, strain on infrastructure, etc)?
Do you know why?
It's because they die during their productive years! Unlike those celibate, teetotalling, delightfully spry 85-year-olds, the fatty/smokers checked out of life before they really began collecting benefits!
That's right, shitbag! If you kick it before you turn 65, society owes your estate a big smoochy kiss kiss! So maybe the solution isn't no drugs... the solution is way more drugs!!!
 
edit: kids, I'm kidding here. Drugs are bad, they destroy your ability to set and achieve your goals. Some of them can damage your liver, others your heart, and all of them your brain. However, that doesn't mean that you should abstain from drugs out of a pseudo-Carousel logic. Abstain because you gather strong evidence to support that choice: understand the physiological risks of drug use; pay close attention to peers who heavily use drugs over a span of years and see where their lives end up; etc. "drugs r bad, mmmkay? drug users r weak and immoral and I am a geek ubermenschen who has transcended my meatbag, mmmkay?" is a weak argument that will collapse the first second the pill drops.