Something went wrong. Try again later

mattbodega

This user has not updated recently.

2281 34417 189 2596
Forum Posts Wiki Points Following Followers

Kanji Tatsumi: A Look at Sexuality and Gender in Persona 4

Author's Note: Is it still a spoiler when the entire game is available for Viewing on the site?

 

There are so many wonderful characters in Persona 4: the energetic Chie, who will do anything to protect those she loves, the awkward Yosuke, who dreams of a more exciting life, the innocent Nanako, who doesn’t understand why her Father works all the time, and the whipped Dojima, who can’t find the courage to tell his daughter that he works all the time to protect her. Even within the confines of Japanese game storytelling—which doesn’t often have the luxury of subtle, quiet storytelling (with rare exceptions) – Persona 4 creates a cast of compelling, interesting characters who do, indeed, have genuine, human characteristics at their core. The kids and adults of Iniba are flawed people, as flawed  and compelling as anyone in Liberty City. It makes the ridiculous murder plot of Persona 4—which has the characters jump into Television sets to fight shadows created by the insecurities of the town—actually seem somewhat plausible. Persona 4 is a rich, fascinating universe, with one of the greatest ensemble cast of any video game I have ever played.

The character who I found the most interesting of the whole group—the character whose psychological dilemma really touched me the most—was none other than wannabe biker, roughneck, and textile master Kanji Tatsumi. Kanji is brazen, reckless, and incredibly loyal. He isn’t afraid to call out other characters on their bullshit, and he, more than any other member of the Investigation Team, realizes that dealing with your shadow is, in fact, incredible beneficial to those whose minds are so troubled. 

  Who wouldn't want to hang with a guy like Kanji?
 Who wouldn't want to hang with a guy like Kanji?


And yet, under that tough-as-nails exterior, Kanji, emerges as one of the most complicated and interesting characters in the game;  raising serious questions about the way society handles and understands gender and sexuality. 
 
 I was so connected to the character, and felt that his characteristics and message were so clear, that I was more than a little angered by the way Kanji was interpreted in a recent video on Destuctoid.com. The video in question was a rant, written and performed by site editor Anthony Burch, in which he argued that video games desperately needed homosexual characters that didn't conform to obvious stereotypes. It's a pretty standard video about a topic that has come up a fair number of times; we've all read something like this before, where progressive game writers bemoan the obvious and infuriating stereotypes about minorities that appear so often in games. 
 
What shocked me, about the article, however, was that Mr. Burch called out Persona 4 as an example of a game which handled homosexuality extremely poorly.
 
As P4 players and  Endurance Run viewers remember, Kanji Tatsumi's main struggle is to come to grips with his own sexual orientation. The battle that leads Kanji to understand himself is one of the great moments in any video game to date, period. It provides-- or, at least, I thought it provided--a clear and profound explanation for the character.

Apparently, this is not the case.
  
With the character of Kanji, Mr. Burch thinks that  Atlus, “sotra half-assed it. Is he gay? Is he not gay? You can argue that this is because of different definitions of sexuality in japan vs. here, and that (sexuality) is not as clear cut as that, but the game still made me feel that that was a cowardly move, to make a character, and actually explore what it’s like to be gay in high school when that’s not really the accepted norm, and then refuse to say whether he’s gay or not."

 
I  was shocked by the like. I think Mr. Burch is a pretty smart guy in general, but his analysis of Kanji character constitutes, in my mind, a pretty serious misinterpretation of the character. More surprising still, several people in the comments also wrote that they too were disappointed/upset that the game seemed to duck around the issue of whether or not the character was gay. Clearly, there's a large group of Persona 4 players who either missed or didn't understand why Kanji's sexuality was never fully and clearly stated in the game. 
 
The desire for this kind of explanation is, in my mind, proof positive that some P4 players, straight up, don't understand the issue that's at the core of Kanji's character.

First off, let's get the obvious out of the way, Kanji probably isn’t gay.

Probably not.

As Kanji says inside the T.V, after finally sedating his shadow self, “It ain’t a matter of guys and chicks….”.

The game certainly makes it SEEM like he’s gay. His interaction’s with the “boy” Naoto and, of course, his shadow on the Midnight Channel are all designed to make it look like he’s gay. Persona 4 really goes far to make you, the player think that Kanji is, in fact gay.

And so many people WANT Kanji to be gay. The reason that  Burch included Kanji on the list is specifically for that reason. So many other game players WANTED Kanji to be gay, because video games are in desperate need for those gay characters who are not stereotypes. If Kanji did come out in the game and say hewas gay, it would provide some really interesting interactions throughout the game, just as Burch said; it would allow the game to show interactions of a gay teenager in high school. And that would be just the kind of insightful, meaningful representation of homosexuality that gaming needs.

But Persona 4 doesn’t make the issue of sexuality so simple, and, as a result, Burch punished the game for what it wasn’t; a sophisticated, heartfelt, and honest interactive experience involving someone coming to grips with their homosexual urges.

The problem, though, is just that; Burch punished the game for what it isn’t, instead of understanding what the game actually is.

Persona 4 does have a message about Kanji, and it has nothing do with whether or not he’s actually gay.

Persona 4 doesn’t care if Kanji is gay.

Persona 4 doesn’t care if Kanji is not gay.

The game is not interested in Kanji’s sexuality in and of itself.

No, Persona 4 is interested in Kanji for a different reason.

The key to understanding Kanji isn’t sexuality. It’s Gender.

Now, you may think I’m crazy. You may think that the game puts a ton of time into portraying Kanji as gay, particularly with his near-naked, heavily lisped shadow inside the T.V. The game, you say, seems to want to have Kanji be gay, and doesn’t go through with it.

But take another look at the dialog in the game, particularly from Kanji and Shadow Kanji inside the T.V
 
 
   

Just before the fight against Shadow Kanji begins, he utters this very interesting line;

“What does it mean to ‘be a guy? What does it mean to be ‘manly?’ Shadow Kanji

Shadow Kanii hits upon one of real Kanji’s sorest spots; for all of his tough guy shenanigans, his leather jacket and “shouting at Media”-itude, Kanji, according to his hearts, true desire, doesn’t understand what it means to be a ”guy”….and, more importantly, why he isn’t a guy.

Yes, Kanji has that air of overcompensating manliness that we always link to heterosexuality, but his heart tells a different story…a story about the real reason his shadow has manifested.

“Oh, how I hate girls……

(The girls say)’You like to sew? What a queer!’

‘Painting is so not you!’

‘But you’re a guy! You don’t act like a guy! Why aren’t you manly?’

“They look at me like I’m some kind of disgusting freak, and say that I’m a weirdo!” Shadow Kanji.

“The girls of Yasogami High reject him. They call him queer. Why? Because Kanji likes to sew. He’s good with textiles. He likes to do crafts, He enjoys knitting. He does things that are “queer” for a guy to do.

Kanji, in the opinion of the town of Inaba, has to be gay, because he doesn’t do the things a guy is “supposed” to do. THIS is the key to Kanji.

 

For the people of Inaba, a person’s sexual preferences are not dependent on what sex an individual actually likes. It doesn’t have anything to do with attraction. Heck, it doesn’t have anything to do with sexuality whatsoever. Because Kanji doesn’t act like a ‘man”, he is not engaging in things that are “male”. For the people of Inaba (and, I would absolutely say, the people here in America) you can’t be a man, like to sew, and still be straight. Kanji likes to do girly things, and not manly things. Therefore, he must be gay.

And this gets to the heart of what Kanji represents in Persona 4, and why he’s such a wonderful character; Kanji, as a character, represents the way that society(Japanese society, and, I would say, American society) handle Gender and Sexuality.

People, in general, need to characterize things, separate items and people according to differences. You are gay or straight. You are a Democrat or a Republican. You are Rich or Poor. If you are male, you like to have sex with women. If you’re female, you like to sew and do arts and crafts. If you’re a man, you like to do “manly” things, like play sports or get into fights.

YOU, as an individual, do not make these choices. YOU, as an individual, do not choose whether or not you like guys or girls, whether you like sports or crafts. Society, that all seeing eye, determines what you SHOULD like, what you SHOULD enjoy doing. Your reality, your existence; it’s socially constructed. Society determines what you are supposed to be.

For the kids at Inaba High, because Kanji is a guy who likes to sew, he HAS to be gay. That’s all he’s allowed to be. That’s all society allows him to be.

Kanji has to be gay, because society deems him to be gay, not because he is actually attracted to other men.

Kanji Tatsumi is a character with a startling, and true, revelation: We are trapped in the roles we are given by society, We HAVE to fit into the categories that define people.

In Kanji Tatsumi, we see that sexuality is defined by others, towards us. We don’t choose our sexuality, instead, we have it assigned based on what we are “supposed” to be.

Think I’m still crazy? Good! But I’m not done yet! There’s one final piece to Kanji’s puzzle!

I have no sense of whether or not you made it to the end of the game( and by that, I mean the very very all the way super true super true ending) because the very end of the game provides a final twist on the Midnight Channel.

Remember, at the beginning of the game; the Investigation Team THINKS the mysterious Midnight Channel is a representation of people’s deepest, most secret desires and beliefs. The Shadow bosses are representations of what the individual on the Channel wishes they could be, or yearns to be, or actually is. Denying that truth makes the shadows stronger.

We all believed that interpretation, but the "True Ending" of the game provides a final, important twist. The final final boss actually reveals the actual truth of the Midnight Channel: the mysterious shadows figures are not the representations of the captured student’s greatest fears and desires.

In actuality, the image on the midnight channel is generated by Inaba’s perception of whoever had recently showed up on normal television. The shadow Kanji, almost totally naked and with Heavy Lisp, wasn’t generated inside his heart; it was what the town THOUGHT Kanji was, what Inaba THOUGHT was Kanji’s true self: a closeted homosexual.

Kanji’s story isn’t about what was inside his heart. It’s slyer, sneakier than that: it’s about what Inaba THINKS Kanji is supposed to be.

And we can all relate to that, right? Did you ever have a hobby, or an action, or a habit that others construed as “gay”? Do you have reactions that aren’t considered manly? Well…..why aren’t they manly?

For Persona 4, society limits us; it breaks us down into categories, stereotypes, roles and characters. We are SUPPOSED to act in certain ways, and conform to certain standards.

“What’s the matter with doing what I want to do?” Shadow Kanji

Kanji does things that mean, for society, that he has to be gay.

Kanji isn’t allowed to be the person that he actually is: a guy who enjoys “feminine” pursuits, like sewing and painting. He doesn’t want to be rejected by the people around him. For being something he’s not “supposed” to be. He doesn’t want to have his pursuits laughed at. He instead wants to be respected for who he is, not what he is supposed to be.

“Won’t someone….anyone…..accept me for who I am?!” Shadow Kanji.

“I’m just scared shitless of being rejected….” Regular Kanji

Kanji's story is the story of what it means, and what if feels like, to have a generalization assigned to you.

Burch judged Kanji because he was supposed to be gay. He was supposed to be a meaningful  homosexual character in a video game. When Kanji didn’t easily fit into Burch's group of positive gay characters, he chastised him and the game, and cut him down to size. Burch didn’t see, or respect, the person that Kanji actually was, or the game that Persona 4 actually is.

Sounds familiar? 
 
Persona 4 is a game unafraid to present a complicated character, and trust that it's audience is smart enough to think about it.  It's the reason Persona 4 is one of the best RPGs ever made.
93 Comments

94 Comments

Avatar image for quististrepe
QuistisTrepe

633

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By QuistisTrepe

Not sure what all of the excessive analysis is about, from any angle. I thought the game's writing made it pretty clear what was on Kanji's mind. Some people just enjoy being argumentative for the sake of it I suppose.

I wish people would stop trying to see things that aren't there.

Avatar image for kestrelpi
KestrelPi

213

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By KestrelPi

@Brodehouse: I think you're right, but I think also maybe you focused in too much on what was a throwaway remark in the rest of what I was saying. Whether they 'handled' the issues or just acknowledged them, the game still routinely gets away with equating manliness with heterosexuality and also has, for example, Yosuke fretting over whether it's safe to be in the same tent as a (possibly) gay man, with the only dialogue option really being to agree with him to various degrees (in the anime, it's even worse too). I think it just gets it wrong in these places. Not hugely - just a little, in a couple of places. Maybe it's because I'm gay, but in a couple of spots I definitely not was thinking 'wow, actually, that's kinda not cool.' I got over it, clearly, because I love the game, but I was a little bit surprised they didn't quite nail this aspect.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e49e9175da37
deactivated-5e49e9175da37

10812

Forum Posts

782

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 14

@SurplusGamer I think the problem you got is the idea that they 'handled' their issues. They're not 'fixed', Yosuke is still wasting for excitement and purpose, Yukiko is still acting rather passive throughout most of her S-Link, Naoto still wants people to believe she's a man. Facing your Shadow doesn't mean you've 'handled' your negative personality traits, it just means you've accepted them as being a part of who you are. It's actually one of the great things about that game, they don't treat negative personality traits like a sickness, they treat them like a natural part of those characters. Whenever we get into "what is a positive female character" I always point to the Persona 4 cast, because they don't become perfect Mary Sues, they have positive and negative traits. They're respectively jealous and domineering, weak-willed and kind of an airhead, slutty and competitive for the affection of men, and humorless and wracked with body image issues. They're these in addition to all their positive traits, that's why theyre so interesting.

Kanji's trepidation when he gets around girls (or Naoto in particular) is not necessarily out of showing off how tough he is or even latent homosexuality, it's just basic shyness around his crush. His Shadow was about his public persona, one that he cultivated while repressing his real feelings. In that way, "prove you're a man" ends up strangling his real desires, in the later cases, "prove you're a man" is just a way to get over his shyness and fear. Which he never really does, though that might just be more so that the Protagonist can add Naoto to his harem.

I understand the desire for a great gay character in games, but I don't think Kanji is quite that. Just like I don't think Naoto is really a transsexual, or transpirited or whathaveyou; I absolutely think she hates her body and is uncomfortable with it, but I don't think she really wants to be a man, she just wants to not hate her body anymore and doesn't know how to do it (which for a perfectionist like her, must be maddening).

It's possible 4 didn't spell that out well, but I feel after Arena I have a better handle on those characters and the nature of Shadows.
Avatar image for kestrelpi
KestrelPi

213

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By KestrelPi

Kanji's character was interesting for the reasons put forward, but I actually found the treatment of homosexuality to be quite problematic, among other things it did very well. Homosexuality is only ever equated with effeminacy - if Kanji had actually turned out to definitely be gay, then this would have countered that, but they never address it. Instead, they let Yosuke constantly get away with homophobic remarks, such as at the camp - you get a chance to respond, but not to call him out on it. While Kanji had supposedly handled his gender issues, he spends the rest of the game trying to prove he's 'a man' as he puts it, by getting into bed with women (with hilarious consequences, etc.)

So even if Kanji's character himself isn't a problem, I do think that they could have been much stronger on the subject of homosexuality itself, being that they're the ones that brought it up in the first place.

Avatar image for oni
Oni

2345

Forum Posts

5885

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 26

User Lists: 12

Edited By Oni

I love you, Kessler.

In a completely straight way, of course.

GET BENT

Avatar image for fateofnever
FateOfNever

1923

Forum Posts

3165

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By FateOfNever

Only just saw this now and wanted to say I loved reading this. Really enjoyed it and think it's some wonderful work.

Avatar image for the_laughing_man
The_Laughing_Man

13807

Forum Posts

7460

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Edited By The_Laughing_Man

I all ways thought Kanji was a guy who didnt wanna be rejected. Gay.. straight....didnt matter. He just did not wanna be tossed aside.  
 
Plus...hes bad ass. 

Avatar image for praxis
Praxis

278

Forum Posts

241138

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Praxis

Don't get me wrong, Kessler, you present yourself quite well here, but I still can't shake the feeling that Kanji's characterization was one of the biggest letdowns of Persona 4. Atlus just wanted to have it both ways, in my estimation. They wanted to craft a compelling storyline about a young man troubled by his own homosexuality, while also giving players who so desired sufficient evidence to believe that he was not having homosexual thoughts at all, but was just confused. That guy he was attracted to? Turns out it was a girl. All the townspeople who thought he was gay? They just thought his sewing was "queer," as luck would have it. The idea that one would question one's entire sexuality based on a couple less-than-manly hobbies and an attraction to a woman in drag seems a little too much to swallow, and the only other alternative is that Kanji was just homophobic, which is an equally unfortunate conclusion. If I was a game maker, this is not the type of ambiguity I would want my game to have.

Avatar image for bybeach
bybeach

6754

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By bybeach

I thought Kanji percieved himself gay because he was so strongly attracted to Naoto. Near the first you see of him is Kanji debating his feelings for Naoto, and what they mean't. Because Kanji is so straightforward honest, he figured if he was attracted to another boy well, then that was how it was and that is what it meant. He didn't seem to like it, but the situation spoke for itself. This was made worse by his relationship to girls, partly because of his he wasn't meeting their expectations, either. He may have very well been competing with them. Sowing probably brought out his artistic side, and by constantly doing something, being naturally wired as he was, it helped him most likely to relax. But chicks saw it as conflicting, and they bought into standard gender roles as any guy would.

It seemed to me a grand mess of everyone talking somebody else into what proved to be a false position. Naoto was a girl, though it also one who didn't relate well to girls or at least standard feminine roles herself for her own reasons, and to succeed she had to pretend to be a boy. This is all just one step away from being good ole japan, but Personna 4 was mostly pretty intelligent, and did try to ask developed and sincere questions.

In the end, I'm sure Kanji might continue to have problems with women, but like you say, it was gender roles and expectations, and not base sexuality at question. I got the impression Kanji was relieved when he found out Naoto was indeed a girl, though indeed a troubled one. She in turn could never tolerate someone dominating her, and that very well could extend into a relationship with a man. Some things at least would have to be on her terms, much like Kanji, and that is where the interplay lies.

Avatar image for midgarddragon
MidgardDragon

154

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By MidgardDragon

This was a fantastic writeup and great read. It took me time to come to terms with Persona 4 not taking a firm stance on Kanji's sexuality, but this and other musings on the game have convinced me it was the right way to go, and it makes Kanji an even deeper character because it's not just about being gay or straight.

Avatar image for hobosunday
Hobosunday

61

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Hobosunday

You sir are a hero. That is all.

Avatar image for renachan
renachan

145

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By renachan

I didn't watch the video in question, but I read something very similar. So thank you for writing this, which I can agree a lot more with. I think the debate of which way Kanji leans is perfectly fine being left for the player to decide, since Kanji isn't sure himself. He reads like Ichigo from Bleach to me, someone who isn't that sexually awake yet. I personally think he might be bisexual because of some things after his shadow (the nose bleed during the school trip being over wet boys as far as I could tell to name one) but I also think it's very valid for someone to say he's 100% straight in their book.
 
Gender and sexuallity has always been a very interesting to me, I was aware of the social construction of gender at a pretty young age which made things much easier for me. Instead of being confused like Kanji that what I liked fit more in the box of what society said the other gender should like, I became curious about all the different ways gender gets constructed 
sociologically. A game dealing at least somewhat with actual gender versus social concept of gender is part of what made Persona 4 so cool to me.

Avatar image for fattony12000
fattony12000

8491

Forum Posts

22398

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By fattony12000

Every hole's a goal.

Avatar image for astinos33
Astinos33

10

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Astinos33

 Great read. After a full play through of P4 and watching the endurance run twice, I feel like I am just now beginning  to understand Kanji's character.

Avatar image for pectoral
pectoral

125

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By pectoral
@ch13696 said:
" @Catolf: Ok, if I happen to ever mention loving friends is gay then let me rephrase my statement. The word "gay" is being used in places it shouldn't really have to be. A lot of people are calling themselves gay because they love a friend. Which they shouldn't be calling themselves that. To which I believe now, being gay is just another fad. Also, having sex with another man is pointless. I know that there's a certain spot that..."excites" a man, but there's another part that gets us going too. It's called having sex with a woman. And these guys that say they don't get the same pleasure from women, then apparently they've been with the wrong type of women.   Like my grandpa says "there's always pussies in the alley". Actually, I shouldn't use that phrase. I'll use the phrase everyone else uses. "There's all kinds of fish in the sea". "
You seem to be ignorant/unaware of what homosexuality is.
Avatar image for andrela
andrela

595

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By andrela

I can only hope that Catherine gives you more content to write about. Very insightful and well-written blog, probably the best one I've read on this site.

Avatar image for mancombseepgood
MancombSeepgood

422

Forum Posts

227

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By MancombSeepgood

I know I'm super late to the party but this was the best blog I've read on giantbomb and probably the best single piece of writing and analysis about one character I've ever read. Great read, very well written.

Avatar image for dingofighter
Dingofighter

1888

Forum Posts

251

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By Dingofighter

This blog has actually made me think Kanji is one of the best characters in the game. 
Very insightful and eye-opening read that has made me like the Persona games even more. Damn it, now I can't wait for that Catherine game to come out...

Avatar image for sharpless
Sharpless

505

Forum Posts

51

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By Sharpless

Wow. I'm glad I randomly happened to see this post. You know, I came away from Persona 4 feeling similarly to Anthony Burch. I thought the game had behaved oddly, seemingly making Kanji gay, then back-peddling a bit with it through his relationship with Naoto, then just kind of forgetting about it by the end. On the one hand, I thought it was nice that they didn't make a big deal out of it. It was just something that happened, and why bother dwelling on it? "Kanji's gay? Okay, fine; let's move on." By the end, though, it bothered me. It was just an afterthought, as though they'd forgotten that it was ever a plot point. 
 
By the time I got halfway through Kessler's post, I had done a complete one-eighty. Now, I don't even think Kanji was gay. I feel like something even better was done with the character. I, myself, am not a terribly "manly" man. Not to the extent that Kanji wasn't, but still noticeably. I can't believe I didn't pick up on what the game was actually doing and saying. (Granted, I did experience the game via the Endurance Run, so Jeff and Vinny may well have been distracting me a bit.) I agree completely, and I hate the boxes that societies and cultures put people in. And I imagine that there are few places where that's more intense than in gamer culture. So, good on Persona 4 for going there and doing so artfully. Hopefully, the majority of people who played the game weren't as dense in their interpretations as Anthony and I were.

Avatar image for deactivated-57d3a53d23027
deactivated-57d3a53d23027

1460

Forum Posts

121

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 5

Well that was an interesting read, and very little keeps me interested any-more so kudos to you.

Avatar image for ravensword
ravensword

4330

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By ravensword
@General_D23:

oh. lol, I totaly thought theyre were two different interns named Matt and they kept this one in a closet or something so we never saw him.
Avatar image for general_d23
General_D23

1210

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By General_D23
@Raven_Sword: Matt Bodega is Kessler. His username is Bodega because....that's what he chose? I dunno.
 
Also, very nice blog.  Forgot to comment on it earlier.
Avatar image for ravensword
ravensword

4330

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By ravensword

ok, can someone answer this for me. I thought this guys name was Matt Kessler? Why does his username say Matt Bodega? is this another intern named matt thats leaving Whiskey Media? did he get married and use the wifes last name? is it just a different username? Im rather confused right now. I think the answers going to make me feel dumb.
Avatar image for azteck
Azteck

7415

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Azteck

I fucking love you, Kessler. Really, really good blog. I know I'm waaaay late and all, but still, good job.

Avatar image for quincyuryuuishida
QuincyUryuuIshida

6

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0


Good wording, it's a great read. 

I played the game a thousand of times and I got the concept it without looking it up.

Avatar image for catolf
Catolf

2791

Forum Posts

3348

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

Edited By Catolf
@Diabloshadow said:
" @trophyhunter said:
" @Catolf said:
" @trophyhunter said:
" You do know Kanji is not and never was actually gay right? He was just shy and he ends up being in love with naoto. "
a Naoto, upon which he thought was a guy at first. But as far as love, love there is no proof of this unless you looking at Dojinshi, which don't count XP "
Did you actually pay attention to the game? "
Personally I think both of you are missing the point of the post. But that's just me  Great read Matt. Gonna miss you being on staff here. "
I don't think so, i get the point, while it makes sense for the most part but I feel as @Turambar does. In the end it was someone wanting to argue.
 
But I feel the same as you and will miss Matt when he goes, I'd like to see more thought provoking conversation on GB.
Avatar image for evhkwick
EVHKwick

472

Forum Posts

5357

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 6

Edited By EVHKwick

Excellent read, Matt. Watching Kanji's transformation over the course of the game has always been one of its biggest highlights for me. I remember being frustrated with Jeff and Vinny during the ER because they wouldn't hang out with him.
 
Accepting his shadow wasn't so much accepting a latent part of himself, but rather accepting that there are two separate perceptions of the self: the self seen by the person and the self seen by others. When Kanji accepted his shadow, I always saw it as him saying, " I know what I do isn't consider right by Inaba, and this is how I'm viewed by others. I need to understand and accept this before I can understand myself.
 
With his social link, I interpreted it as him accepting his hobbies, and disregarding how anyone else viewed him. At the end of the game, when the MC speaks to him before leaving, he says something about teaching crafts to others (it's been a while since I've beaten it, so forgive me if I'm not exact). He's learns to be okay with who he is.
 
" Who cares what people believe me to be. I know who I am; I'm Kanji Tatsumi, dammit!"

Avatar image for diabloshadow
diabloshadow

286

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By diabloshadow
@trophyhunter said:
" @Catolf said:
" @trophyhunter said:
" You do know Kanji is not and never was actually gay right? He was just shy and he ends up being in love with naoto. "
a Naoto, upon which he thought was a guy at first. But as far as love, love there is no proof of this unless you looking at Dojinshi, which don't count XP "
Did you actually pay attention to the game? "
Personally I think both of you are missing the point of the post. But that's just me
 
Great read Matt. Gonna miss you being on staff here.
Avatar image for nikoalexander57
NikoAlexander57

370

Forum Posts

1093

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By NikoAlexander57
@MattBodega:  You, sir, are a person I could have a long conversation with on many things in the world. I never would have noticed this, but thank you for giving me the opportunity to see a deeper, more example of human nature part of a game. You should post more stuff like this.
Avatar image for flyingox
FlyingOx

8

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By FlyingOx

Like Turambar, I meant to reply to this a long time ago. 
I really like the post that Matt wrote, and agree that Kanji's case is more about gender than sexuality. Matt's interpretation of what's shown on TV is mistaken, but that's already covered by others. 
Ironically, "wanting" Kanji to be gay is pretty much entirely against the main themes of P4: truth and acceptance. "Wanting" Kanji to be gay is to not accept him for who he really is; it's looking for a truth we want rather than a truth as it is.
 
Taking Kanji's case a step further, we could say that Kanji isn't so much about gender as much as stereotyping in general. I mean, it's pretty easy to call someone a weeaboo, or nerd, goth, emo, jock, or any other name simply because that person has certain interests or likes (and I'm being pretty tame with the names here). In the true ending, Izanami said, "Man struggles to understand one another. You can only truly know a finite number of people, but humans disregard this and try to know more people than possible". Stereotyping, though, makes life easier, since it gives us a convenient label for people we are unable to, or simply don't want to, know better. 
 
So when people see Kanji as a young boy have 'girly' interests, it's pretty easy to write him off as gay and leave it at that. After all, what else could he be, right? No 'normal' boy has an interest in things like that. Since he doesn't fit in, giving him a convenient label makes it possible to not want to know him any better. And that's why the building of social links is so important in this game (or in real life for that matter) - building an intimate relationship with someone runs parallel with truth and acceptance.

Avatar image for catolf
Catolf

2791

Forum Posts

3348

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

Edited By Catolf
@Turambar said:

" @MattBodega:   I've always meant to write up a reply to this blog post, and 8 months later, I've finally gotten around to it.  I definitely agree with your sentiments: that Kanji's sexuality was never at the core of his insecurities.  Gender roles served a far larger issue at hand.   While Kanji (in my opinion) is at the least bisexual, whether he likes to get it on with dudes is not the focus of the character outside the comical moments (a point perhaps worth a separate write up.)  Whilehe , as his shadow admits, prefers men, the cause of that, the rejection by girls for his interests, is given the spot light in both his dungeon, and his S.Link. However, I believe you have also misinterpreted Persona 4 on a particular point.    You write that "In actuality, the image on the midnight channel is generated by Inaba’s perception of whoever had recently showed up on normal television. The shadow Kanji, almost totally naked and with Heavy Lisp, wasn’t generated inside his heart; it was what the town THOUGHT Kanji was, what Inaba THOUGHT was Kanji’s true self: a closeted homosexual. "  However, I do not believe that to be the case.  As Izanami has said, the T.V. serves as a window, giving opportunities to both that wants to view secrets, and those that wants to admit to them.   What the desires of the town manifested as were the increasingly clearer images of the peoples of interest.  However, the areas themselves and the natures of the Shadows are not manifested by the wants of the town, but by the cast inside the T.V.  Remember back to Chie and Yosuke, two people who were never in the eye of the public, and the manifestations of their Shadows.   Secondly, there's an implication to your hypothesis that I cannot agree with.  The interaction between a person and his or her shadow is not rejection, but rather acceptance.  Your shadow is finally beaten, and transformed into a persona, not through physical force, but through understanding.  Thus for the nature of the shadows to be developed by the public would change the message of Persona 4 to one of complete conformity where acceptance of what the public thinks of you is the most beneficial path, a theme that goes against the "reject the wishs of man and form our own path" conclusion that the game has. "

I like this, that makes sense.
 
@ch13696 said:

" @Catolf: Ok, if I happen to ever mention loving friends is gay then let me rephrase my statement. The word "gay" is being used in places it shouldn't really have to be. A lot of people are calling themselves gay because they love a friend. Which they shouldn't be calling themselves that. 


I can understand this and get right behind it, it's dumb and shouldn't happen.
 
 

To which I believe now, being gay is just another fad.

A fad? How is being gay a fad? Being called gay in the sense that they aren't and are just saying so to be stupid, yes, but gay / homosexuality as a whole, no.
 

 Also, having sex with another man is pointless.

 
How is it pointless? If two men, love one another, and complete the relationship with something more intimate, much like when a man and woman (or woman and woman) come together as one. it's pointless to YOU because you either don't do it, or are closeted about the matter and do have curiosity about it.
 

 I know that there's a certain spot that..."excites" a man, but there's another part that gets us going too. It's called having sex with a woman.

 
Actually it's called a penis. a woman is not a part of you to get you going. In the end this is getting ignorant.

 
 And these guys that say they don't get the same pleasure from women, then apparently they've been with the wrong type of women.

   Actually it's because they aren't  -PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED- TO THEM SIR. It's nothing about getting the same pleasure, it's about not liking them in general. If they are homosexual men, and not just Bisexual men, then ladies aren't their cup o' tea. Again this is sounding ignorant. XP
 

 Like my grandpa says "there's always pussies in the alley". Actually, I shouldn't use that phrase. I'll use the phrase everyone else uses. "There's all kinds of fish in the sea". "  


   Yes all kinds. Like other men.
Avatar image for ch13696
ch13696

4760

Forum Posts

204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

Edited By ch13696
@Catolf: Ok, if I happen to ever mention loving friends is gay then let me rephrase my statement. The word "gay" is being used in places it shouldn't really have to be. A lot of people are calling themselves gay because they love a friend. Which they shouldn't be calling themselves that. To which I believe now, being gay is just another fad. Also, having sex with another man is pointless. I know that there's a certain spot that..."excites" a man, but there's another part that gets us going too. It's called having sex with a woman. And these guys that say they don't get the same pleasure from women, then apparently they've been with the wrong type of women.  
 
Like my grandpa says "there's always pussies in the alley". Actually, I shouldn't use that phrase. I'll use the phrase everyone else uses. "There's all kinds of fish in the sea".
Avatar image for turambar
Turambar

8283

Forum Posts

114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Turambar
@MattBodega:   I've always meant to write up a reply to this blog post, and 8 months later, I've finally gotten around to it.
 
I definitely agree with your sentiments: that Kanji's sexuality was never at the core of his insecurities.  Gender roles served a far larger issue at hand.   While Kanji (in my opinion) is at the least bisexual, whether he likes to get it on with dudes is not the focus of the character outside the comical moments (a point perhaps worth a separate write up.)  Whilehe , as his shadow admits, prefers men, the cause of that, the rejection by girls for his interests, is given the spot light in both his dungeon, and his S.Link.
 
However, I believe you have also misinterpreted Persona 4 on a particular point.  
 
You write that "In actuality, the image on the midnight channel is generated by Inaba’s perception of whoever had recently showed up on normal television. The shadow Kanji, almost totally naked and with Heavy Lisp, wasn’t generated inside his heart; it was what the town THOUGHT Kanji was, what Inaba THOUGHT was Kanji’s true self: a closeted homosexual. "
 
However, I do not believe that to be the case.  As Izanami has said, the T.V. serves as a window, giving opportunities to both that wants to view secrets, and those that wants to admit to them.   What the desires of the town manifested as were the increasingly clearer images of the peoples of interest.  However, the areas themselves and the natures of the Shadows are not manifested by the wants of the town, but by the cast inside the T.V.  Remember back to Chie and Yosuke, two people who were never in the eye of the public, and the manifestations of their Shadows. 
 
Secondly, there's an implication to your hypothesis that I cannot agree with.  The interaction between a person and his or her shadow is not rejection, but rather acceptance.  Your shadow is finally beaten, and transformed into a persona, not through physical force, but through understanding.  Thus for the nature of the shadows to be developed by the public would change the message of Persona 4 to one of complete conformity where acceptance of what the public thinks of you is the most beneficial path, a theme that goes against the "reject the wishs of man and form our own path" conclusion that the game has.
Avatar image for catolf
Catolf

2791

Forum Posts

3348

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

Edited By Catolf
@ch13696 said:

" Yeah, it's a good blog. Defend what you believe in, but my argument is why the fuck do you want a game to be about a gay character? The argument isn't against you Matt it's against that douche that made the video. I can understand you have the game going around this really good story and the lead character just happens to mention he's gay. However, if you do a game that's based around the character being gay then it would be a failure. There will be no good story or gameplay. I just think this dumb ass is just going along with the fad. Being gay.  

W-What? 
 
I was with you at first... then you did this:
 
 

Not only that, what does sexuality have to do with being gay? Why the fuck is there gay in the world? I can understand you loving you friend. Someone you would rather hand around with than women. I've been around a lot of supposedly gay dudes that love their friend. It doesn't mean they have sex with them. That's just what they're comfortable with. Having sex with another dude is just pointless. I know that and my "gay" friends know that. The guys that are getting married and having sex with other men are completely going at it the wrong way.   Well I think I've taken that rant a little too far. So I'll just leave it at that. "


 Did you just ask what is the point in a gay man having sex with another gay man? Really? Because gay (homosexual) men don't feel sexually attracted to women. Simply put. And if you really want to get into the benefits I'd rather say in a PM.
 
In any case you don't call your friends 'gay' because they love you like family. You call them FAMILY.. do anything for you in a jam family. Brother from another mother if you will.
 
But please don't be ignorant and ask "Why is there -gay-" cause well, you sound ignorant XP
 
@trophyhunter said:

" @Catolf said:

" @trophyhunter said:

" You do know Kanji is not and never was actually gay right? He was just shy and he ends up being in love with naoto. "
a Naoto, upon which he thought was a guy at first. But as far as love, love there is no proof of this unless you looking at Dojinshi, which don't count XP "
Did you actually pay attention to the game? "

Yes.. and 'blushing' don't mean your in love either.. 
 
Look here if you don't believe me. He's shy, but by no means does he display love, he even show's shyness toward the other girls as well.
Avatar image for trophyhunter
trophyhunter

6038

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 5

Edited By trophyhunter
@Catolf said:
" @trophyhunter said:
" You do know Kanji is not and never was actually gay right? He was just shy and he ends up being in love with naoto. "
a Naoto, upon which he thought was a guy at first. But as far as love, love there is no proof of this unless you looking at Dojinshi, which don't count XP "
Did you actually pay attention to the game?
Avatar image for ch13696
ch13696

4760

Forum Posts

204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

Edited By ch13696

Yeah, it's a good blog. Defend what you believe in, but my argument is why the fuck do you want a game to be about a gay character? The argument isn't against you Matt it's against that douche that made the video. I can understand you have the game going around this really good story and the lead character just happens to mention he's gay. However, if you do a game that's based around the character being gay then it would be a failure. There will be no good story or gameplay. I just think this dumb ass is just going along with the fad. Being gay.  
 
Not only that, what does sexuality have to do with being gay? Why the fuck is there gay in the world? I can understand you loving you friend. Someone you would rather hand around with than women. I've been around a lot of supposedly gay dudes that love their friend. It doesn't mean they have sex with them. That's just what they're comfortable with. Having sex with another dude is just pointless. I know that and my "gay" friends know that. The guys that are getting married and having sex with other men are completely going at it the wrong way.  
 
Well I think I've taken that rant a little too far. So I'll just leave it at that.

Avatar image for catolf
Catolf

2791

Forum Posts

3348

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

Edited By Catolf
@trophyhunter said:
" You do know Kanji is not and never was actually gay right? He was just shy and he ends up being in love with naoto. "
a Naoto, upon which he thought was a guy at first.
But as far as love, love there is no proof of this unless you looking at Dojinshi, which don't count XP
Avatar image for watanabekazuma
WatanabeKazuma

1006

Forum Posts

3099

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 5

Edited By WatanabeKazuma

A very interesting read, good work. I watched a good portion of the ER's and I had much the same thought process as you towards Kanji as his character was first introduced up until his shadow self. Reading this makes me more eager to finally get started on the copy of Persona 4 I have on my shelf. 
 
Will add more thoughts on this once I've finished the game and have a more qualified opinion.
Avatar image for trophyhunter
trophyhunter

6038

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 5

Edited By trophyhunter

You do know Kanji is not and never was actually gay right?
He was just shy and he ends up being in love with naoto.

Avatar image for subwayd
SubwayD

927

Forum Posts

123

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 27

Edited By SubwayD

Only just saw this bumped to the front page. A nice, clear write up of the character, man. Well done. 

I always knew that, in the back of my mind, he wasn't gay. That's not to say I didn't badly want him to be. It feels awkward to admit that I made a judgement right off the bat which coloured my thoughts of him. I'm just somewhat thankful that, as we found out more about him, he turned out to be an awesome guy who I had a lot in common with and could be legitimately attracted to... if he was a real dude. 
 
Still, thinking back with Matt's points in mind, I now feel like a spectacular twat for the way I had the main character act towards him. 
 
Hurrum.  
Maybe one day there will be a P4P I can finally try and seduce him without feeling like some sort of predator. :P

Avatar image for donutfever
donutfever

4057

Forum Posts

1959

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 35

Edited By donutfever

Deep Bro.

Avatar image for jacksukeru
jacksukeru

6864

Forum Posts

131

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 22

Edited By jacksukeru

Mind = Blown 
 
I was one of those people who wanted the game to be perfectly clear about wether Kanji was gay or not, and also thought the game was "chickening out" when you beat his shadow and he talks about "It aint a matter of guys or chicks". 
 
Reading this makes it all make sense, makes it all fit together. 
A great read, I will now be following you MK, for great justice!

Avatar image for pk_koopa
PK_Koopa

593

Forum Posts

77

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By PK_Koopa

Really good blog. It made me like P4 even more.

Avatar image for cap123
cap123

2467

Forum Posts

970

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Edited By cap123

I never saw this first time round, Matt's a pretty eloquent writer.

Avatar image for gunslingerpanda
GunslingerPanda

5263

Forum Posts

40

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By GunslingerPanda

I liked Kanji, he was going through a lot of the same shit I was, and still am really.

Avatar image for neoepoch
neoepoch

1317

Forum Posts

13

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By neoepoch

Wow this post resurfaced? Well that is good, I actually meant to look for this, so a win for me. Anyway, I just wanted to add to a few of Matt's points. Kanji not only suffers from problems with gender perception, but even with his tough guy attitude, the police are constantly on him. I feel that his social link is really just about preconceived notions and prejudices in general. Cops are always on him because they see him as a bully, and his classmates mutter behind his back about how they think his sewing hobby makes him gay. It adds to the overall theme of seeking the truth.
 
There is also a strong connection with his past, when he lost his father. During the ninth level of the link, he tells the MC that his father told him before he died that "If you are going to be a man, you have to be strong." Kanji misinterpreted it as his father calling him out on not being a man, which caused him to push others away and get into fights. However, he realized during his s. link, that his dad mean that he needed to stand up for what he is and what he believes in. He didn't care that his son enjoyed sewing, he just wanted him to stand up for what he believed in. Kanji learned that it was okay to be himself, and that he had to put in the effort to make others understand him, instead of just letting them think whatever they wanted to.
 
@HypoXenophobia:  He only had the nosebleed after the girls came out in their suits. The guys were already in their suits and they were talking. I feel that the main reason there he had confusion about his sexuality was due to being around Naoto, a girl who disguised herself as a boy because of a similar problem that Kanji has - preconceived notions of gender in society. Kanji started developing a thing for her, but was under the impression she was a guy, which confused him when you first meet him.

Avatar image for twolines
TwoLines

3406

Forum Posts

319

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By TwoLines

Great read. Very interesting and insightful.
I knew P4's characters were greatly written, this just proves it.

Avatar image for evercaptor
Evercaptor

436

Forum Posts

3014

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Evercaptor

Nice to read I'm not the only Dtoider who saw Burch got it completely wrong about Kanji. I completely agree with the way you interpreted him, but I fear that it's too subtle for a lot of people to see. Maybe it's how much we resonated with Kanji?

Avatar image for minnim
minnim

2

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By minnim

First of all I want to say it was a very nice read, and a very nice point of view!                                                                                                                                                        But the thing I wonder is, why everyone has to make such a big deal about this? 
I mean.... either he is gay, or then he isn't.... and so what??  
Why do we feel the need to "categorize" him?  
Personally I just don't think there is any need to categorize characters (or real people for that matter)...  
Can't Kanji just be KanjI? Or is it important that we know exctly every detail about him? 
I think everyone should be able to interpret him however they want... Because we will never (at least most likely never) know the truth about Kanji anyway...                  So wathever makes the player happy, or satisfied, he or she should just be able to believe in that... or? 
I just think people make too big a deal about this... then again, that's just my opinion...    
Avatar image for eviltwin
EvilTwin

3313

Forum Posts

55

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By EvilTwin
@Sincillian said:
" @MattBodega:  This was a great read but I think you got 1 part wrong. About the true true ending. While yes the Midnight Channel is a representation of what the residents of Inaba are thinking about that's not what shows up on the T.V.   What I mean is when someone like Kanji for example showed up on the regular T.V and everyone saw it and started thinking about him, I'm pretty sure that only his silhouette was shown on the Midnight Channel. Only from the people thinking about him, only his silhouette appeared. When he was actually thrown into the T.V and his shadow made that Midnight Channel program, everything that you saw on the program was all Kanji's shadow, no one had any part in what the Shadow did. So yes that Shadow Kanji actually was Kanji's deepest fears, desires, etc. That goes for everyone that got put in the T.V.  "
I believe this is correct.  It makes sense considering that they all eventually accept that the shadows are a part of them.  And for probably all other characters than Kanji, the revelation that what their shadow did was just what people wanted it to do would actually cheapen the character development rather than add to it.  
 
Otherwise, pretty good read.  Probably over long, but good nonetheless.