@Brodehouse: I'm not saying Castlevania 3D should go back and have outdated gameplay mechanics like its stiff jump from the original trilogy. Part of the reason why I think IV is the best Castlevania game is because the challenge felt more real, because the control was so much better. Frankly, I'm amazed that it is the only Castlevania that allows whipping in 8 directions. I'm also not saying it should abide by the same difficulty rules as Demon's Souls, such as stern its checkpoints. It should however present a challenge that feels satisfying to conquer, similarly to the old games. I'm saying it should draw from everything SotN and prior, not just the NES trilogy. Demon's Souls seems to draw most of its elements from the original trilogy, but I'm not trying to say Castlevania has to. Demon's Souls to me just feels a lot more like Castlevania than any 3D Castlevania game I've played and seems like a better example of what it was meant to be in the third dimension.
" the goal is not to create a game that punishes failure, but makes success rewarding. If the only way you can achieve the latter is with the former, you need to go back to spec."
It's quite rare for a game to not punish failure, and even rarer when that game feels rewarding. I suppose it's all perspective and our thresholds. But I actually think Demon's Souls is rather brilliant in this regard. Yes the punishing factor helps make it feel more rewarding, but it wasn't just that. Defeating every enemy feels like a victory in and of itself. Getting farther than ever always felt good. What a lot of people miss though, is the rewards of the learning process. If you want to take the easy road, then you can write off a death as the Demon's Souls wasting your time, and I could just as easily say that about any game (1600 deaths will add up in time "wasted", even in Super Meat Boy). This learning process does give you feedback. You learn what bad guys are where. You learn the best tactics to use against these bad guys. You find new paths and checkpoints, a different kind than we're used to, such as opening a locked door, turning on an elevator or killing a dragon, but they're checkpoints.
Demon's Souls is not a game for everyone, and if you don't have time or patience to play through and learn about the levels, then obviously you're not going to like it much. I mean, if you're going to play an RPG, you've got to be going into it thinking, it's going to take some time to beat. It's just a different kind of time with Demon's Souls, and I understand how it can feel like a waste to a lot of people, especially those with busy lives. I personally feel insulted when someone just says Demon's Souls is a waste of time. I've put around 200 hours into it. I don't think I could do that if the combat was unresponsive or broken, and I certainly don't want people saying I've just wasted 200 hours of my life. I don't think I've played an action RPG or even medieval action game with better combat mechanics, and the amount of depth and multitude of options is great. During my first playthrough I don't recall ever getting angry, because the combat was so fresh, so unique, rewarding and responsive. It is still one of my favorite games to just sit down and play for fun, even if it is just for short bursts. I can beat most levels in under 20 minutes, and I can invade or help people. Demon's Souls requires a time investment not everybody can give it, but many of those that do, fall in love with it. Just like there are films for a niche audience, Demon's Souls is just that for gamers. It pays homage to the classics. You could call it neo-noir, but for games. Besides, why should every developer have the same goal when creating a game? As they say, variety is the spice of life, so why not for gaming as well?
About the length, it doesn't really bother me. I feel like we're both, well at least I am, gaining some perspective.
@Brodehouse: I really don't think you understand the points I made at all, in either the post or my reply to your comment.
" Insane enemy attack patterns that have more in common with bullet hell shooters are fine, but not when your character handles like a dead animal, can get locked in hitstun loops and goes flying back from every touch like he was took a shotgun blast to the chest."
I also made the mistake in thinking you were talking about Demon's Souls with this statement, not Castlevania. No, you can't leave the ground, but when you get hit, you get stunned and/or pushed back, but are always able to recover by blocking or rolling away. The getting pushed back places more ground between you and your enemy giving the stun more time to wear off.
I'm going to assume you can read moves of other fighters and react quite quickly in a game like Street Fighter. Well, what if I told you all of the enemies in Demon's Souls can be read and reacted to in the same way? It becomes quite easy to learn when to block and when to strike certain enemies. Just because fighting games have instant gratification, means all games have to? It takes time to wind up a sword or spear, get up from the ground with a suit of armor on, use an item and raise a shield. And besides, wouldn't a game that requires nothing but twitch reflexes be the most punishing kind of game of all? Just because a game plays slower than a fighter doesn't make it unresponsive.
"When was the last time trial-and-error was used in a positive light, and why do you think that is?"
All. The. Time. How did you learn to play your fighting games? Did you just pick up the controller for the first time, and become the champion you are today? Have you played as one character ever when playing Street Fighter? You didn't ever try out Vega or Guile and to try and find out if they were better suited to your playstyle than Ryu? You have never tried a fight stick to see if that worked better for you? When you played Portal, did the solution to every puzzle come to you instantly? Ever play a Strategy game? Did you respond to a strategy you've never seen before in the correct way every time? Trial and error is everywhere. It's in everyday life. Ever try touching a burning stove? Guess you won't be doing that again, right? Trial and Error is in every game, Demon's Souls is just a little stricter.
For the record I did get a little flustered. I didn't call you a fanboy though, I said you're acting like one, making up blind excuses in favor of your opinion. Regarding Halo, when a grenade goes off, you don't get stunned and just keep trucking. There is no penalty from a grenade aside from taking damage, Demon's Souls (and Castlevania) have penalties in addition to damage for taking hits. And the point of this post was definitely NOT to say Demon's Souls is 3D Castlevania. I was drawing comparisons between both series to highlight aspects of Demon's Souls many players missed, while also expressing my opinion that Konami should be looking at Demon's Souls rather than games like God of War for direction to take Castlevania 3D in the future.
Demon's Souls clearly isn't for you, and that's fine, but there are people out there that it is for, people like me. To say it's an unacceptable game is naive and selfish.
@Brodehouse: What parts of this post did you even read? Yes, the first three Castlevanias control poorly, but IV and on's controls are sublime. I don't understand what's wrong with the control in Demon's Souls either, it controls as good as your typical Zelda, I think better. Were you wearing armor and expecting to be able to run at top speeds and roll around at will? There is such a thing known as balance, and it's important in games with PvP. Do you know about the Zelda esque lock on feature and that you can block? Demon's Souls wants to be hard, and not because of sticky or broken control. It punishes you for being reckless, ignorant and/or bad. It's not going to hold your hand like nearly every other game that has come out in the best decade. Demon's Souls doesn't adhere to the "metagame" of games these days, accessibility and hand-holding. Those hitstun loops and flying back are contradictory. The flying back will help you get away from the enemy, or give you time to block. SO BLOCK!!! OR BACK AWAY!!! And when you get struck with a sword or a spear goes through your chest, what do expect, not to be stunned or knocked back, because grenades and rockets don't stun you in Halo? It's okay that Demon's Souls isn't for you, but when you talk out your ass making up stupid excuses you sound more like a fanboy than a intellectual.
@KillyDarko: Thanks. I think Ken Levine would be perfectly fine, ecstatic even, with SHODAN being in Valve's hands, especially with Church (the lead on the original) on their team now.
@valrog: Yeah, I'm aware their relationship is dissipating, BF3 won't be on steam either, but if you read the G4 article the SS3 would likely require EAs blessing, and I think their relationship is good enough for that.
Why System Shock 3 will/should never be released (at least with Shodan in it): http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/08/12/the-girl-who-wanted-to-be-god/#more-15868 (also a damn fine article on Shodan in its own right). Also, won't Irrational own the System Shock name? The only reason Valve can get away with 'DOTA 2' is because it's a sequel to a mod and hence not an IP owned by any company. You're right though that Doug Church joining Valve is pretty excited based on what other people have said about him. I just wish the LMNO project he was working on before actually made it out.
That is the second time I've read that piece. System Shock 3 would have to be done right for sure, but I believe if anyone can do it, Valve could.
If you read the article linked to the up in the air phrase in my post, you'll gain a little more of an understanding of System Shock's rights situation. EA used to own System Shock's rights. If Irrational owned it, I doubt they'd ever have made BioShock.
Thanks! ... wait no you mean in game accessories. I suppose that is true.
@EuanDewar said:
The ramblings of a madman.
Most likely
@SSully said:
They are actually working on a Half Life RTS game, my uncle's best friends wife's boyfriend works for valve and showed me some videos of it in action. It runs on Source Engine 2 and each unit has as 1000 times the polygons as Alyx's ass in HL2.
I believe it.
@valrog said:
I always thought that Valve would make an RPG, and System-Shock idea definitely sounds intriguing. Now you got me hyped probably for nothing.
@Sweep
said:
Hats, yo.
Just... How do you come up with that stuff? Teach me of your ways, master.
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