For the first time since World of Warcraft back in 2004, I'm actually excited about an MMO. In all aspects of MMOs, The Old Republic doesn't feel like one. It feels more like a Bioware game... with multiplayer. It literally feels like you're making the decisions in the game. It literally feels like you're a Jedi and not just another character class. It's been a long time since I pre-ordered a game, let alone pay full price. Ladies and gentlemen, I think we found our World of Warcraft killer. And if not that, a game that will actually compete with WoW.

I'm going to have to disagree on a few points. Obviously this is just my personal opinion, but sure it feels like I'm making decisions, but it doesn't feel like those decisions really matter. I can't quite put my finger on it, but when I play something like KOTOR, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc, it feels like it's my world. It's my story and I hold all the power in my hands. When I play SWTOR, it feels like I'm a a miniscule part of a grandiose picture. It feels like I ultimately don't matter at the end of the day. This feeling is even worse when you think about how the storyline is trying to make you the center of the story. Something somewhere in the narrative and in the world just doesn't work the way it should for what they're trying to do.

Also, it doesn't feel like I'm playing a Jedi. I point to this article from Massively to explain why:

In Star Wars films, novels, comics, and other video games, Jedi are demi-gods who strike fear in the hearts of their opponents and win a lot more battles than they lose. You know what Jedi do in SWTOR? They whack on mobs with their lightsabers 20,000 times in order to deplete health bars. Sure they've got some nice-looking combat animations, but they're ultimately no more powerful than your average Joe who picks up a blaster.

I don't agree with everything in that article and I'm not going to dissect it bit by bit as the overall point of it isn't relevant here, but I agree with the statement above as it describes why I don't feel like a Jedi.

And I know I'm being tough on the game, but I did enjoy what I played. It is definitely fun, however for me, the things that are being hyped up about this game aren't as special as Bioware would make it seem.

It's a good MMO and I'll just leave it at that.

Yeah, no. This seems like a decent MMO, but nothing to topple WoW. The voice acting was the only true differentiation from other MMOs, other than the brand, and even that's not consistent enough to be a strong selling point.

After seeing some of the beta leaks for the trooper class featuring a god awful attempt at romance and a weightless final story decision i'm more cynical about this game than ever before.

Some people really seem to dig it including a lot of the beta testers, but the footage i've seen just looks lame.

I think it could kill WoW. But at the same time I think theres to many fanboys of WoW.

Does anyone know when the beta actually starts? I got an invitation but I dont kno if it was this weekend or next or what.

@Lady_of_the_patriots said:

I think it could kill WoW. But at the same time I think theres to many fanboys of WoW.

Does anyone know when the beta actually starts? I got an invitation but I dont kno if it was this weekend or next or what.

Yawn. The word "fanboy" makes me think you are just a moron. I think you mean 'fans'.

@Lady_of_the_patriots: What exactly is a fanboy? People always seem to use it in the context that if somebody likes a game they don't then they're a fanboy.

Wow can't be killed. As long as they keep putting out content the game will do well. A lot of people feel invested in WoW and don't really want to start over from scratch. WoW has over 10 million active subscribers and shows no signs of slowing down. The next biggest MMO has 1 million subscribers. I think TOR will start out with a maximum of 2 million subscribers. Even if every one of those subscribers came from WoW they would still be left with 8 million subscriptions. People like WoW, people are comfortable with WoW and there is no way it's going to die unless Blizzard pulls the plug on the servers.

It blows my mind that people still think that WoW can be crushed by a different MMO, I mean really. As someone who still actively plays WoW most of the playerbase (who you know aren't actually gamers but WoW has transcended that) doesn't even know what the hell this game is.

NDA breaking stuff:
I really enjoyed it.
 
Non-NDA breaking stuff:   As said elsewhere, the basic combat manages to become more interesting merely by increasing the average number of mobs you fight.  MMOs have traditionally been a series of one-on-one grinds against enemies, while modern action/rpgs send one or a few guys against whole waves of enemies.  By making you deal with four guys at once, you begin to actually think spatially like you would in a Dragon Age.
 
As for the story stuff, MMOs traditionally have an incredibly deep well of fiction, but can never get it across that you are living in it.  At most it seems like it happens around your character.  By giving your character a voice when you interact with faction heores, dungeon bosses, you get the sense of being there and actively taking part.  It's not vanilla WoW where the dungeon boss spouts a bunch of storyline stuff while you wait for his second phase to start.
 
I'm not sure I'll ever understand the petulance some gamers have towards Old Republic.  I'm trying to figure out if it's that BioWare DARES to try making an MMO rather than remake Baldur's Gate 2, or that WoW has been the definition for so long that they actively want everything else to fail.  Maybe they just see the amount of money and time BioWare has invested and want to see it fail because the misery of others is the only way they can feel happiness.  Who knows.

@A_Cute_Squirtle said:

Yeah, no. This seems like a decent MMO, but nothing to topple WoW. The voice acting was the only true differentiation from other MMOs, other than the brand, and even that's not consistent enough to be a strong selling point.

This. As a person who got into the beta a while ago, this game is good but not great, enjoyable, but not worth $60 up front and $15 per month. I shall be waiting for it to be Free to Play.

I'll be happy if its fun when you level a second character, or if there's actually anything to do besides pvp or raid at level cap.

I'll be happy if its fun when you level a second character, or if there's actually anything to do besides pvp or raid at level cap.

I'm trying to figure out if it's that BioWare DARES to try making an MMO rather than remake Baldur's Gate 2, or that WoW has been the definition for so long that they actively want everything else to fail.  Maybe they just see the amount of money and time BioWare has invested and want to see it fail because the misery of others is the only way they can feel happiness.  Who knows.

@Brodehouse said:

I'm trying to figure out if it's that BioWare DARES to try making an MMO rather than remake Baldur's Gate 2, or that WoW has been the definition for so long that they actively want everything else to fail.  Maybe they just see the amount of money and time BioWare has invested and want to see it fail because the misery of others is the only way they can feel happiness.  Who knows.

Sorry to bring it up in yet another TOR thread..  But look at the amount of hype and praise Guild Wars 2 is getting, which in my opinion, is doing a hell of a lot more (including deep single player/story elements) to move the MMO genre into modern times.  TOR isn't being bashed so heavily because people want to see it or Bioware fail..  but simply because people think it's a bad game.  After being able to participate in the beta, I wouldn't say it's bad, just not particularly exciting.  I'm certainly not going to be paying a subscription for it.

If its got good PVP i will switch.

@G0rd0nFr33m4n: You're going to be waiting a long time

@WinterSnowblind said:

@Brodehouse said:

I'm trying to figure out if it's that BioWare DARES to try making an MMO rather than remake Baldur's Gate 2, or that WoW has been the definition for so long that they actively want everything else to fail. Maybe they just see the amount of money and time BioWare has invested and want to see it fail because the misery of others is the only way they can feel happiness. Who knows.

Sorry to bring it up in yet another TOR thread.. But look at the amount of hype and praise Guild Wars 2 is getting, which in my opinion, is doing a hell of a lot more (including deep single player/story elements) to move the MMO genre into modern times. TOR isn't being bashed so heavily because people want to see it or Bioware fail.. but simply because people think it's a bad game. After being able to participate in the beta, I wouldn't say it's bad, just not particularly exciting. I'm certainly not going to be paying a subscription for it.

What exactly is Guild Wars 2 doing that is so revolutionary. I gave the first one a fair shot but it was an MMO in name only.

@Brodehouse: Oh sure, but the real killer here is only having a set of planets to walk through. Far as I know there's kind of a set path for both sides and doing that once, perhaps twice, will be enough. In WoW or Lotro you'd almost always have 2 zones available to level in, making follow up play throughs a lot more doable instead of only for the mindless ones so to speak.

@WinterSnowblind: You pretty much sum up everything that put me off this game.

My dislike of the game is not the vitrolic hatred of "i hope it fails" but rather the jaded attitude of someone who has followed it a long time and seen a lot things turn out not as I hoped. In my eyes (and by my standard of what I look for) Bioware have made some bad choices regarding game mechanics, classes and several other aspectt to the extent that a game i was so looking forward to I no longer desire. I don't want this game to fail because a shit load of people are employed as a result of it, the money invested in it and the amount of work that's gone into it. Honestly, I hope its a success even though I won't be a part of it. It is not the star wars I love and I accept that.

@WinterSnowblind said:

I do think the story stuff is quite good, but unlike the OP, I think that's a negative factor. Rather than feeling like an MMO with a deep single player experience, it feels like a single player MMO with multiplayer tacked on.. I'd much rather be playing KotOR 3 and have a more indepth single player, rather than two half-assed modes.

You know what, scratch what I said about the story. I think this is really my issue. Like it just feels weird. I can't think of any other way to describe it. I think half-assed is the perfect way to put it too because it doesn't feel like it goes far enough in either direction. It's very clear they want to appeal to Bioware fans and MMO fans, but it's just the odd mix of "well, yeah, you're the center of the story, but so are the other half a million people you see running around."

It's like your significant other telling you that you're their one and only, but then fucking someone else after you leave the house. Then you try and bring it up and they're just like, "you are my one and only, but only when you're around. When X comes around then they're my one and only." Ok ok, that was a shitty example lol, but still, I just can't think of another way to put it.

It's as if they're serving two masters without being fully committed to either. I know this entire post sounds like one big broken record, but it just. feels. frakking. weird.

Personally, I am looking forward to TOR. I've played a lot of MMOs in the past and have always quit them in 3 months because I lost the driving force to continue playing. What I am hoping is that TOR's story will continue to drive me to play the game. I like the standard MMO mechanics and I love the Star Wars universe so TOR seems like a good choice. On top of all that, lots of my friends and lots of my friend's friends want to get this game so I will have a possy of 10-15 people who I personally know that I can jump on and play with.

I think the main audience TOR will attract are the hardcore Star Wars fans who dont mind MMO mechanics and the old WoW players who want a slightly different taste. I dont think that TOR will bring in people who do not like MMOs and people should not look for this. It's like looking at MW3 and saying that you dont like it because it is an FPS that has first person shooting in a modern combat setting. That is what the game is so if you do not like that part of the game, then it is not for you. No sense in bitching what it isnt.

@WinterSnowblind said:

I do think the story stuff is quite good, but unlike the OP, I think that's a negative factor. Rather than feeling like an MMO with a deep single player experience, it feels like a single player MMO with multiplayer tacked on.. I'd much rather be playing KotOR 3 and have a more indepth single player, rather than two half-assed modes.

You know what, scratch what I said about the story. I think this is really my issue. Like it just feels weird. I can't think of any other way to describe it. I think half-assed is the perfect way to put it too because it doesn't feel like it goes far enough in either direction. It's very clear they want to appeal to Bioware fans and MMO fans, but it's just the odd mix of "well, yeah, you're the center of the story, but so are the other half a million people you see running around."

It's like your significant other telling you that you're their one and only, but then fucking someone else after you leave the house. Then you try and bring it up and they're just like, "you are my one and only, but only when you're around. When X comes around then they're my one and only." Ok ok, that was a shitty example lol, but still, I just can't think of another way to put it.

It's as if they're serving two masters without being fully committed to either. I know this entire post sounds like one big broken record, but it just. feels. frakking. weird.

it was really fun. but i got bored pretty quick. but then i found a group of 4 people and it was really fun again. $15 a month every month seems dumb to me though. ive never paid for a game each month. WOW was never even a thought to me because of this. I really had fun but there are so many games to play that dont charge me every single month to play.

What I've wanted and expected out of SWTOR is really KOTOR 3: Online. Not KOTOR 3: Single Player Epic Adventure. Sure that would be nice, but we already have 2 of those games. Like Wintersnowblind said, we are currently in an era of "two half-assed modes". Bioshock 2, Fable 3, (Mass Effect 3?), Brutal Legend... I don't dislike any of those games, but I see what they are. Developers are trying to strike a hybrid balance, and it's bloody hard to get it right.

After 20 hours and 3 characters I haven't been disappointed with the gameplay. It's rare that I read quest notes, but here the fully voiced cutscenes are selling me. I actually understand why it's useful for my character to go out and scan things for a questgiver. And why I'm likely to be attacked while doing it. I can suspend my disbelief for the 10 minutes that it takes to do a mob run. I think that is what it brings to the table, weaving a narrative. Just like you might expect from a BioWare game. Maybe the choices I make won't matter to the galaxy, but it's still a story I'm interested in hearing.

Also I desperately want to murder that Sith overseer, multiple times if possible. What a dick.... URRRG.

I hope it's a legit bioware experience, but even still they need to out do themselves by 500%. MMOs have so many moving parts, I'm just worried they're forgetting to polish certain areas. The launch content needs to be enormous and varied, can't wait to play it.

If this weekend beta taught me anything its that all the whining in the beta forums is just nonsense.

The game isn't some genre changing demi-god, at least not at launch. It can compete easily in the MMO scene but probably not kill WoW.

This game won't change your opinions of an MMO. But it is a very good MMO that will have an impact on the MMO environment.

I'm about 5 hours in, level 6 and this game is in really rough shape for being just over a month away from release.

I'm not sure what can be said or not with the NDA so I won't say anything specific, but there are many minor to semi serious bugs in the very small amount of the game that I've seen so far.

This game really did try to copy WoW but they didn't capture any of the magic that made wow special, right from the first 30 minutes I just felt like I was in a boring leveling grind heading towards a boring end game grind which all of these games inevitably become.

I'm going to keep with it, but I can't see myself spending any money at all on this game when it comes out.

So BioWare hyping their story doesn't make players think more about what they're experience at present instead of always looking towards the end-game?

I think anyone getting grandiose ideas about it being vastly different from WoW are going to be dissapointed, however it looks to be a solid game with the kind of polish at launch that few MMOs get these days, i'm sure it will be far more successful than the likes of AoC and WAR purely off Bioware's prestige, the Star Wars name and it's obscene budget and marketing. Those CGI trailers probably cost more together than some entire MMO development costs.

I've played wow on and off, mostly on, since 2005 and have grown tired of it as many have, i'm not adverse to a similar styled game in a different universe however and am looking forward to SW:TOR despite not having a great interest in Star Wars outside of enjoying the films.

As everyone and their mother can get into the stress test i'm looking forward to getting a feel for the mechanics myself, inbetween server resets login queues.

So BioWare hyping their story doesn't make players think more about what they're experience at present instead of always looking towards the end-game?

Ah yes the question was terribly written, sorry about that. I just want the game to feel like a video game from the start with a sense of overall purpose in what you do throughout the game besides leveling up.

My worries at the moment: That the combat is too standard and that it might be tedious to find people that want to team up as 98% of the game is soloable supposedly.

I found myself hitting F5 to quicksave before going to talk to an NPC or into a big area only to remember that 'oh yeah, it's an MMO'.

Beta weekend for the end of November.

So yes, let's just say I'm fairly excited to try TOR today. Of course keeping in mind that the servers will be raped and so forth, granted I get in and get to try a few quests I'll be happy. I'm sure a bunch of you guys will try it for the first time today also. I'm interested in finding how combat looks and feels, and maybe try some PvP if its available.

They will simulate the staggered release, simply by letting people test the game in waves, gradually letting people onto the servers.

i can't even get into the weekend beta that's a great start to this MMO.

Enjoying it so far.I'm still on the "Prologe" though... I hope the planets are bigger than this...

@BabyChooChoo said:

I'm going to have to disagree on a few points. Obviously this is just my personal opinion, but sure it feels like I'm making decisions, but it doesn't feel like those decisions really matter. I can't quite put my finger on it, but when I play something like KOTOR, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc, it feels like it's my world. It's my story and I hold all the power in my hands. When I play SWTOR, it feels like I'm a a miniscule part of a grandiose picture. It feels like I ultimately don't matter at the end of the day. This feeling is even worse when you think about how the storyline is trying to make you the center of the story. Something somewhere in the narrative and in the world just doesn't work the way it should for what they're trying to do.

This is my experience with every Bioware RPG out there. They promise a lot of choices that will have impact on the world, but hell no, shit didn't go down. YOU SAVE RACHNI? NOBODY CARED

Not too deep in (and propably wont play that much more of the beta) and not really diggin' it. Some things I like but overall its not working for me.

Enjoying it so far.I'm still on the "Prologe" though... I hope the planets are bigger than this...

@CL60 said:

@FilipHolm said:

Enjoying it so far.I'm still on the "Prologe" though... I hope the planets are bigger than this...

The game is tutorial until you get your space ship, then it opens up.

That's what I was hoping for. Thanks bro

Didn't crash on me once for 6 hours straight.. A bit long loading times between planets though for me at least. Smuggler was fun. Haven't gotten a ship yet. Seems like a solid game so far in the prologue parts. I like that there's a story going throughout.

@Titus said:

@BabyChooChoo said:

I'm going to have to disagree on a few points. Obviously this is just my personal opinion, but sure it feels like I'm making decisions, but it doesn't feel like those decisions really matter. I can't quite put my finger on it, but when I play something like KOTOR, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc, it feels like it's my world. It's my story and I hold all the power in my hands. When I play SWTOR, it feels like I'm a a miniscule part of a grandiose picture. It feels like I ultimately don't matter at the end of the day. This feeling is even worse when you think about how the storyline is trying to make you the center of the story. Something somewhere in the narrative and in the world just doesn't work the way it should for what they're trying to do.

This is my experience with every Bioware RPG out there. They promise a lot of choices that will have impact on the world, but hell no, shit didn't go down. YOU SAVE RACHNI? NOBODY CARED

It's pretty well known that the Rachni are a major part of Mass Effect 3

@Extreme_Popcorn: Yeah, but that was kind of my point. If you've read that leaked information about the story, then some of the things you've done won't really make a difference. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Mass Effect, particularly the first one, and I'm going to buy ME3 on release, I'm just bummed that Bioware are turning their RPGs into action games with RPG elements.

Besides the game randomly shutting down my pc I am madly in love.
The prologue is a little long but I just got my ship (did space missions, awesome!) and I thought but one thing.
 
Mass Effect Online.
 
I played Trooper and I'm hooked, the combat is really diverse with all the different skills and my moves feel real good to execute on enemies, healing is done very well too for as far as I could tell.
Nice mix of doing damage and healing, not just running behind the group healing them while they do all the fun work.

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Besides the game randomly shutting down my pc I am madly in love. The prologue is a little long but I just got my ship (did space missions, awesome!) and I thought but one thing. Mass Effect Online. I played Trooper and I'm hooked, the combat is really diverse with all the different skills and my moves feel real good to execute on enemies, healing is done very well too for as far as I could tell. Nice mix of doing damage and healing, not just running behind the group healing them while they do all the fun work.

Yeah this game is very GPU/CPU intensive but it seems like your card is overheating. You should look into cleaning the dust out of your GPU...it's never a good thing when your PC gets shut down.

Also enjoying this game too. level 14 bounty hunter and really kept me intrigued in the storyline.