I'm sitting here watching this Galaxies live stream, and whenever Jedi are brought up the staff always say how the MMOs with Jedi don't work because Jedi are super powerful people that nobody could ever possibly beat, but this really doesn't make any sense. They are looking at the movies for their proof to this when the movies focus on literally the top jedi/sith in the lore, and even with those, Jango Fett pretty much had a stalemate fight with Obi Wan. Most of the Jedi were completely wiped out by troopers. So I really don't understand the staffs arguments on this. The average Jedi can be beaten by a trained non jedi pretty easily.

Execute order 66.

@ShadowConqueror said:

Execute order 66.

ha, yea

Isn't it more of a thing in Episode 4-6? That's what I've always thought, that because there are like three of them left, they're pretty much badass.

I'm sitting here watching this Galaxies live stream, and whenever Jedi are brought up the staff always say how the MMOs with Jedi don't work because Jedi are super powerful people that nobody could ever possibly beat, but this really doesn't make any sense. They are looking at the movies for their proof to this when the movies focus on literally the top jedi/sith in the lore, and even with those, Jango Fett pretty much had a stalemate fight with Obi Wan. Most of the Jedi were completely wiped out by troopers. So I really don't understand the staffs arguments on this. The average Jedi can be beaten by a trained non jedi pretty easily.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

Wrestling MMO ftw by the way.

@Titus said:

Isn't it more of a thing in Episode 4-6? That's what I've always thought, that because there are like three of them left, they're pretty much badass.

Thse 3 being like...probably worse than most apprentices during 1-3? LIke seriously, i bet your average apprentice could beat Luke as he was in those movies. And Vader...he doesn't move faster than a slow walk, come on!

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

@Shirogane said:

@Titus said:

Isn't it more of a thing in Episode 4-6? That's what I've always thought, that because there are like three of them left, they're pretty much badass.

Thse 3 being like...probably worse than most apprentices during 1-3? LIke seriously, i bet your average apprentice could beat Luke as he was in those movies. And Vader...he doesn't move faster than a slow walk, come on!

Urgh, that shit just makes me sad. Lucas totally fucked up Star Wars. When a fucking apprentice behaves like Eddie in Tekken with a lightsaber then something is wrong.

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

This.

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Future hipsters.

@Titus said:

@Shirogane said:

@Titus said:

Isn't it more of a thing in Episode 4-6? That's what I've always thought, that because there are like three of them left, they're pretty much badass.

Thse 3 being like...probably worse than most apprentices during 1-3? LIke seriously, i bet your average apprentice could beat Luke as he was in those movies. And Vader...he doesn't move faster than a slow walk, come on!

Urgh, that shit just makes me sad. Lucas totally fucked up Star Wars. When a fucking apprentice behaves like Eddie in Tekken with a lightsaber then something is wrong.

@Doctorchimp: This, basically.

Yeah, just because George Lucas wanted to sell every kid a fucking lightsaber and he figured geeks would give his movie an A+ if he stuffed it into every scene of the prequels doesn't change that the original trilogy presented the jedi as an order that didn't just go away because The Empire killed 10,000 of them. But you always got the sense that the Jedi Order was dying off simply because there were so few jedi to begin with and there was only a handful around the galaxy at any given point.

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Because according to star wars history they were all wiped out. The only ones left alive in those movies are the ones that shouldn't be fucked with. Bounty Hunters hunt Jedi successfully pretty easily.

@CL60 said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Because according to star wars history they were all wiped out. The only ones left alive in those movies are the ones that shouldn't be fucked with. Bounty Hunters hunt Jedi successfully pretty easily.

I bolded the part you missed.

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60 said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Because according to star wars history they were all wiped out. The only ones left alive in those movies are the ones that shouldn't be fucked with. Bounty Hunters hunt Jedi successfully pretty easily.

I bolded the part you missed.

I didn't miss it. It's not my fault you ignore it when it's part of CANON.

I'm not going to bullshit my way through the argument by saying. YEAH WELL... WHEN I WATCHED THE MOVIES I SENSED THAT IT WAS MY WAY! I'm going to go with the way the story presents it to me because... you know... it's the story.

@CL60: But it's such a bad story :(

@CL60 said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60 said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Because according to star wars history they were all wiped out. The only ones left alive in those movies are the ones that shouldn't be fucked with. Bounty Hunters hunt Jedi successfully pretty easily.

I bolded the part you missed.

I didn't miss it. It's not my fault you ignore it when it's part of CANON.

I'm not going to bullshit my way through the argument by saying. YEAH WELL... WHEN I WATCHED THE MOVIES I SENSED THAT IT WAS MY WAY!

CANON doesn't account for Gary Kurtz, Irvin Kershner, and Lawrence Kasdan. Those dudes that made Empire Strikes Back what it was and had George Lucas freak the fuck out, he actually thought they ruined Star Wars...

As I said before, Whiskey Media was talking about the original movies (the only good part about Star Wars) Jedis. And those were very different from your bullshit versions. You can rage all you want.

Ben Kenobi doesn't know about midichlorians when he taught Luke the Force.

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60 said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60 said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Because according to star wars history they were all wiped out. The only ones left alive in those movies are the ones that shouldn't be fucked with. Bounty Hunters hunt Jedi successfully pretty easily.

I bolded the part you missed.

I didn't miss it. It's not my fault you ignore it when it's part of CANON.

I'm not going to bullshit my way through the argument by saying. YEAH WELL... WHEN I WATCHED THE MOVIES I SENSED THAT IT WAS MY WAY!

CANON doesn't account for Gary Kurtz, Irvin Kershner, and Lawrence Kasdan. Those dudes that made Empire Strikes Back what it was and had George Lucas freak the fuck out, he actually thought they ruined Star Wars...

As I said before, Whiskey Media was talking about the original movies (the only good part about Star Wars) Jedis. And those were very from your bullshit versions. You can rage all you want.

Ben Kenobi doesn't know about midichlorians when he taught Luke the Force.

You seem to be the one raging, not me.. about how you are unable to accept the fact that the movies that came after the originals are indeed part of the Star Wars story and lore. If they didn't exist, you would have an argument, but they do, and they are part of the history of Star Wars. It doesn't matter how bad the movies were, that's how it happened, that's what the Jedi were according to star wars lore.

@Shirogane said:

@Titus said:

Isn't it more of a thing in Episode 4-6? That's what I've always thought, that because there are like three of them left, they're pretty much badass.

Thse 3 being like...probably worse than most apprentices during 1-3? LIke seriously, i bet your average apprentice could beat Luke as he was in those movies. And Vader...he doesn't move faster than a slow walk, come on!

He doesn't have to. He can force choke people from across the galaxy 0.o

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Even if we take the original trilogy as the only canon Star Wars movies (which they aren't to anyone who isn't a hipster) the plot points @CL60 is arguing are still valid. From the original three movies we know there was a much larger Jedi order in the past, they were hunted down and killed and the only Jedi surviving now were the ones who were skilled/powerful/lucky enough to evade the Empire forces hunting them. The only Jedi around in the new trilogy are the ultimate Jedi, because those that could be killed by troopers and bounty hunters are already dead (which was most of them).

Do you really expect people to sit around saying "Master level Jedi" or whatever. No, there are Jedi and there are everyone else.

Wait.. a wrestling MMO was discussed?

Whenever I see threads like this I am reminded why I can never genuinely like Star Wars ever again.

If the canon only existed within episodes 4-6, it would make quite some sense that Jedi were the most powerful warriors in the Galaxy and that Darth Vader single-handedly assisted the Imperials to take down the Jedi with the power of the dark side. 1-3 is definitely Canon now and because of it Jedi's are now depicted as a mix of only a few competent Jedi that could only survive when the going got tough, and tons of throwaway Jedi that magically forgot the ways of the force and hardly examplified the mastery of combat and deception that they supposedly possessed with the force when they just run into laser fire like a bunch of idiots in Episode 2. The expanded universe to me personally just diluted everything though I definitely won't claim all of it is badly made as I'm sure many other people may find a liking to both them and the prequels.

So thanks to the canon, CL60 is pretty much right that Jedi ain't all that anymore. Also fuck Midi-chlorians. Beam me the fuck up, Scotty (hehehe).

@mazik765 said:

said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Even if we take the original trilogy as the only canon Star Wars movies (which they aren't to anyone who isn't a hipster) the plot points @CL60 is arguing are still valid. From the original three movies we know there was a much larger Jedi order in the past, they were hunted down and killed and the only Jedi surviving now were the ones who were skilled/powerful/lucky enough to evade the Empire forces hunting them. The only Jedi around in the new trilogy are the ultimate Jedi, because those that could be killed by troopers and bounty hunters are already dead (which was most of them).

Yep.

@CL60: You made a topic asking why the staff treated the jedis as the most powerful in the universe.

As I said, they were talking about the original movies...ignoring the expanded universe and the bullshit prequels, which they don't pay attention to as they shouldn't, the jedi were very mystical.

That's who they were talking about. You keep responding with different stuff about how the story represents itself. I don't understand how you can mix this up. If all you saw was the original movies the jedi are completely different than what they are anywhere else.

I know you're going to say something about canon and how it shouldn't be ignored...but they do. And I do too along with a lot of people.

You're going to get a little mad and be like "NOT FAIR, LIKE WHAT I LIKE" and I'm gonna be like..nah man I don't like that stuff.

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60: You made a topic asking why the staff treated the jedis as the most powerful in the universe.

As I said, they were talking about the original movies...ignoring the expanded universe and the bullshit prequels, which they don't pay attention to as they shouldn't, the jedi were very mystical.

That's who they were talking about. You keep responding with different stuff about how the story represents itself. I don't understand how you can mix this up. If all you saw was the original movies the jedi are completely different than what they are anywhere else.

I know you're going to say something about canon and how it shouldn't be ignored...but they do. And I do too along with a lot of people.

You're going to get a little mad and be like "NOT FAIR, LIKE WHAT I LIKE" and I'm gonna be like..nah man I don't like that stuff.

I never even said I liked the prequels. I'm just not going to be ridiculous and pretend that the lore doesn't exist simply because the movies weren't very good. Because the fact remains that not all Jedi are super beings that can't be stopped by anybody other than a powerful Sith. Not to mention the fact that the game the staff is taking about when saying this, takes place long before the movies even happen. So this whole not all Jedi being super powerful thing would still be in affect because they haven't all been hunted to extinction by bounty hunters and the empire.

@xobballox said:

@mazik765 said:

said:

@CL60: Your prequels and expanded universe is bullshit.

The good movies very much presented the Jedi as a very exclusive club with a handful of jedi that weren't to be fucked with.

Even if we take the original trilogy as the only canon Star Wars movies (which they aren't to anyone who isn't a hipster) the plot points @CL60 is arguing are still valid. From the original three movies we know there was a much larger Jedi order in the past, they were hunted down and killed and the only Jedi surviving now were the ones who were skilled/powerful/lucky enough to evade the Empire forces hunting them. The only Jedi around in the new trilogy are the ultimate Jedi, because those that could be killed by troopers and bounty hunters are already dead (which was most of them).

Yep.

All this.

@ShiftyMagician: Good post. Jedi are essentially samurai and not all samurai were equal. Especially during their times of peace.

@CL60:

Look the fact of the matter is, you asked this.

I'm sitting here watching this Galaxies live stream, and whenever Jedi are brought up the staff always say how the MMOs with Jedi don't work because Jedi are super powerful people that nobody could ever possibly beat, but this really doesn't make any sense.

And I answered that the staff were pretty much only talking about the original movies. That's the answer.

You can bring up the canon and stuff, but they don't care. That's not what they were talking about. They don't care about the cartoon with the little girl who isn't a very good jedi.

Also, it's been a bit since I've seen the original trilogy so maybe I'm forgetting something... but where was Luke ever an unstoppable badass versus a lot of Stormtroopers all by himself? I don't recall him ever taking on a shitload of guys easily at once (I can remember him fighting several dudes in Jabba's palace, but that's all I can remember), and Luke is supposedly one of the most powerful Jedi ever. I feel like Jedi had a reputation/rumors (I can't think of the right word to put here, but I think that will suffice...) preceding them that made them out to be way more badass than they actually were, sort of how some people think of Chuck Norris now.

I hate the preqels, but it's irrelivant to say they don't exist. Even if I dont like the acting or the characters or the story it still fills in part of the jedi history, and totally explains why only Obi Wan and Yoda are left. Becuase they're the most experienced of the Jedi. After The Return of The Jedi (Read the name!) Luke starts to train other force sensitive people, starting to rebuild the jedi order, but since no movies have been made that far into the fiction, we can say that after Order 66 only the most bad ass survived, making the jedi the most powerful known force in the Star Wars universe.

@Doctorchimp said:

@CL60:

Look the fact of the matter is, you asked this.

I'm sitting here watching this Galaxies live stream, and whenever Jedi are brought up the staff always say how the MMOs with Jedi don't work because Jedi are super powerful people that nobody could ever possibly beat, but this really doesn't make any sense.

And I answered that the staff were pretty much only talking about the original movies. That's the answer.

You can bring up the canon and stuff, but they don't care. That's not what they were talking about. They don't care about the cartoon with the little girl who isn't a very good jedi.

And what I'm saying is it doesn't make sense, because the lore says they aren't unstoppable, only some are, in the original movies they were the last remaining after being hunted down and killed by the empire and bounty hunters... What are you not understanding about this? The MMO they are talking about takes place thousands of years before the original movies, so what the staff are saying makes 0 sense. They can't possibly be talking about the power of the jedi in the original movies while talking about a game set in the republic era.

I really don't understand what you're even trying to say. And I'd love for you to explain to me how the power of the jedi in the original movies has any correlation to the republic era, when it's been proven that the jedi aren't all super unstoppable beings.

It's not even the most powerful Jedi that survived. With how they were talked up, there must have been plenty of those. The ones that survived were simply good at hiding.

Where in the original trilogy does it say that Jedi are all powerful? Nowhere really, that was all added by imagination. Han kills more troopers than any of the Jedi. The Jedi are shown to use trickery and the force to evade combat.

And no matter how bad the prequels were, still better than matrix 2/3.

I'm just going to say don't worry about it. They've made it clear that they don't like Star Wars that much anymore, don't like star wars games in general, and most importantly... they don't really care, and that's fine.

@mosdl said:

Where in the original trilogy does it say that Jedi are all powerful?

Thanks to The Force Unleashed we have more people thinking that.

I'd like to add that people should read the Star Wars comics to get a better picture of past and future events. Especially Legacy. A whole different Sith in that series.

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@CL60 said:

I'm sitting here watching this Galaxies live stream, and whenever Jedi are brought up the staff always say how the MMOs with Jedi don't work because Jedi are super powerful people that nobody could ever possibly beat, but this really doesn't make any sense. They are looking at the movies for their proof to this when the movies focus on literally the top jedi/sith in the lore, and even with those, Jango Fett pretty much had a stalemate fight with Obi Wan. Most of the Jedi were completely wiped out by troopers. So I really don't understand the staffs arguments on this. The average Jedi can be beaten by a trained non jedi pretty easily.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

Wrestling MMO ftw by the way.

That is right. How many Jedi died because of Bounty hunters? Or plain Clone troopers? Space battles? All we saw in the movies are Knight level or master level Jedi. If you watch the animated series (Yes that one) Askoa is a great show of how weak they can be. She is often over whelmed.

Well if you're not a Knight or Master, then all that's left is Padawan... So...

@xobballox said:

Also, it's been a bit since I've seen the original trilogy so maybe I'm forgetting something... but where was Luke ever an unstoppable badass versus a lot of Stormtroopers all by himself? I don't recall him ever taking on a shitload of guys easily at once (I can remember him fighting several dudes in Jabba's palace, but that's all I can remember), and Luke is supposedly one of the most powerful Jedi ever. I feel like Jedi had a reputation/rumors (I can't think of the right word to put here, but I think that will suffice...) preceding them that made them out to be way more badass than they actually were, sort of how some people think of Chuck Norris now.

That's a good point. Plus during the original trilogy, I' always gathered that Jedi were more about espionage and illusions via the force, rather than using their lightsaber to cut down a bunch of Fisher Price toys. The lightsaber came across as a last-minute act for defending themselves more than anything. I know there's now different classes of Jedi even within the canon, with Jedi who are more so specced for lightsaber combat, but that also naturally narrows their force affinity giving them weakness' all the same.

@pw2566ch said:

Thanks to The Force Unleashed we have more people thinking that.

I'd like to add that people should read the Star Wars comics to get a better picture of past and future events. Especially Legacy. A whole different Sith in that series.

The Legacy Era (comic books/novels, combined with the Fate of the Jedi series) almost completely chased me away from Star Wars, personally. It was just...yeah. The "latest" time period I like is the New Jedi Order and Yuuzhan Vong stuff.

I do like the history/Old Republic stuff, still. Part of what got me interested in SWTOR.

The strongest Jedi's in all of Star Wars in terms of combative skills were: Yoda, Obi-wan, Anakin and Mace Windu. Out of those, Anakin was the strongest. I am of the firm belief that Anakin was infinitely more skilled then Luke, probably because he started training at a young age. Although they allude to Luke being possibly just as strong as Vader.

@AlisterCat said:

I'm just going to say don't worry about it. They've made it clear that they don't like Star Wars that much anymore, don't like star wars games in general, and most importantly... they don't really care, and that's fine.

Its the hip thing to hate Star Wars these days. I was also annoyed by everyone calling SWG bad without ever playing it, with only Ryan somewhat defending it (and admitting he didn't play a lot). Its that kind of ignorance that usually doesn't happen to these guys.

The problem with talking about how powerful Jedi are is how wildly inconsistently they are portrayed. There will be times where they are 'movie level' Skilled fighters able to hold their own agienst dozens of troops and capeable of impressive feats. Other times they will be "Video game/comic level" and capable of tearing apart entire stars WITH THE FORCE.

It makes is pointless to argue. If you accept only the Movies as canon, jedi are very powerful, but not undefeatable by any means. If you go by other materials, they can be gods.

But SWG is bad...It could have went down as one of the best MMOs ever, but they fucked that up and made it one of the worst mmos.

This conversation reminds me of this 2003 video, where Mace Windu is an omnipotent, force God:

This is the lamest shit ever.
 
The prequels had some of the best fighting scenes from almost any movie, especially the original trilogy. Just because the story sucked doesn't mean that they weren't cool as shit.

Since this takes place long before the Jedi fall from power there are tons of them and they are essentially just another force of ambassadors/soldiers who use the force. In the original trilogy, it made sense that they were so powerful because they were the only 3 or 4 left.

@Floppypants said:

This conversation reminds me of this 2003 video, where Mace Windu is an omnipotent, force God:

The power of the force demonstrated here is ridiculous. It's like watching Ryu Hayabusa fight plastic cups. It makes for great cartoon entertainment, but how do you make a video game where your character is this powerful? You end up making games like The Force Unleashed, where half the creatures you fight are either boring, trivial trash or bizarrely force-resistant.

Most of the EU is very guilty of this and that cartoon was a perfect example. Jedi are not supposed to be unstoppable super heroes, they were just very talented fighters who eventually let their arrogance destroy them. That was the whole point. The newer Clone Wars series (the one that's currently running) does a much better job at showing what the Jedi are supposed to be and actually has a decent amount of story and character development.. Not just flashy lightsaber battles.

I really like the idea of a Jedi being a one man army like a Space Marine of the WH40k universe or a Spartan-II of Halo, you spend a bunch of time and resources training these dudes, if they can't deal with some stupid clones then it doesn't make sense. I expected the scene from Ep III to be longer and depict how a jedi could die being overwhelmed but after killing a lot of clones but Lucas was greedy, didn't want to spend a lot of resources and now we have the idea that five clones could kill Ki-Adi-Mundi, come on, it was fucking Ki-Adi-Mundi and Plo Koon should have sensed that something was wrong and fight back with his jedi starfighter.

Trying to make any sense of anything in the Star Wars universe is ridiculous.

George Lucas did a great job of making sure nothing really added up after the prequels and then the expanded universe stuff just takes it beyond absurd.

That being said, lightsabers acting like normal swords in any game is just lame, often necessary but incredibly lame.

Regular people call you "Master Jedi" to be polite/respectful even though you're a Padawan or another rank within the Order.

To me lightsabers work in TOR as they did in KOTOR and I'm having an okay time with it.

The Borg would fuck the Jedi up.

@Funkydupe said:

Regular people call you "Master Jedi" to be polite/respectful even though you're a Padawan or another rank within the Order.

To me lightsabers work in TOR as they did in KOTOR and I'm having an okay time with it.

Yeah. On the sith side they call you 'lord' even when you're not even an apprentice yet. I assume that's just the proper form of address to a Jedi/Sith even if they're just starting.

In my day A Sith Lord was a Sith Lord, and a Jedi was a Jedi.

@Dagbiker said:

In my day A Sith Lord was a Sith Lord, and a Jedi was a Jedi.

I seem to recall in Kotor 1 they would call you Master Jedi when you were still training on Dantooine.