MERP (Middle Earth Roleplaying Project), a massive total conversion mod for Skyrim that has been in development for several years (it started out as a mod for Oblivion), has been served a Cease and Desist order by Warner Brothers.

The mod website (still up at the time of this tip) is here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/merp-middle-earth-roleplaying-project

One of the developers had this to say to the fans:

"MERP fans: We are aware that you have waited patiently for our news. Recently we have received a Ceast & Desist letter from Warner Brothers Entertainment, and in a disappointment shared among our team we are complying with that request. We are avidly seeking a resolute course to continue modding, but we cannot at this time discuss this publicly and with that I urge you to please be patient and hopeful that we will find a way."

Myself, and hopefully others from the MERP Moddb page are trying to make the rounds to the major gaming sites to spread the word. We're thinking that if we can get enough negative publicity towards Warner Brothers, they might take the Cease and Desist back. Hopefully they'll see reason in this issue.

Thanks for reading, please spread the word! :D

Oh wow that's a huge bummer. I've never seen any total conversions shot down like that. I think this is a terrible precedent for an outside company to rear its ugly head in the modding community like that and I don't think it's fair at all. It's not like people who make total conversions profit out of it.

A Halo total conversion mod for C&C Generals got slapped down and Halo Wars was announced not too long after.

It's important when making a mod not to be potentially making the same product as an upcoming commercial release, or else this happens.

@Cretaceous_Bob said:

A Halo total conversion mod for C&C Generals got slapped down and Halo Wars was announced not too long after.

And a bunch of Star Wars TCs for Battlefield 1942 got C&Ded not too long before the Battlefront games came out. This is pretty standard operating procedure when companies feel like their toes are being stepped on. (And also these guys were pretty stupid to think that a TC like this wouldn't be killed in the first place.)

Huh. That's...odd. Considering there's a TC mod for Medieval II: Total War called The Third Age that's been up for years, this is pretty shitty news.

shame. hopefully they lighten up. u guys have my support.

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!". It's like when that Chrono Trigger remake in Unreal (I think Unreal anyway) was cancelled. No shit! Square-Enix, a big faceless company who have no qualms about re-releasing the original Final Fantasy on iPhone for $15 are not going to let you make money off their ideas.

People need to get realistic about this, 99% of the time you CANNOT take someone else's IP and make a game with it. Gearbox are cool with some Duke Nukem 3D remake, Valve seem fine with the Black Mesa update to Half-Life, but 99% of the time you're gonna face legal action.

tl;dr - I hope they can salvage this and make something cool with it, but people need to leave other people's ideas alone before seeking approval.

Warner Brothers? I thought it was Alliance Atlantis or something, don't recall seeing a WB logo on any of the LOTR flicks.

@Kraznor said:

Warner Brothers? I thought it was Alliance Atlantis or something, don't recall seeing a WB logo on any of the LOTR flicks.

Warner Bros. owns New Line Cinema.

Next we'll see them go after those dudes that are recreating Middle Earth in Minecraft. Bunch of assholes.

I would say that they should keep creating the mod, but just not call it Middle Earth. Don't use any of the names of people or locations, and don't use identifiable symbols. Just make it a wink and a nod to Middle Earth.

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

This. Spreading negative publicity for this is stupid.

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

They're not making money off of the project though. Absolutely no one is getting paid for their work on the mod. If you visit the developer website, the headline says "Not for profit, all volunteer."

If a group infringes a copyright, and is trying to make money off of it, by all means, do what you can to take them down, but MERP isn't making any money. It's a labor of love to the fans that can only bring more people into the LOTR universe, which would most likely get people to buy official "merchandise".

The thing is, with games like LOTR online, which offers a similar experience of an open world Middle Earth, they could stand to lose money if this is released as the audience would run off to this. They could also have games being made that are even more similar to this project.

The Third Age mod for Medieval 2 : Total War not only has all the middle earth factions to play as, but it even has character designs and movie cutscenes from right out of the movie. Yet, there doesn't seem to be any LOTR games (Battle for Middle Earth 2 was 6 years ago) in the pipe that offer a similar experience.

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

This. Spreading negative publicity for this is stupid.

@Andrewkin said:

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

They're not making money off of the project though. Absolutely no one is getting paid for their work on the mod. If you visit the developer website, the headline says "Not for profit, all volunteer."

If a group infringes a copyright, and is trying to make money off of it, by all means, do what you can to take them down, but MERP isn't making any money. It's a labor of love to the fans that can only bring more people into the LOTR universe, which would most likely get people to buy official "merchandise".

This sounds nice, but it doesn't work that way. Yet people keep doing it. These kids may love the shit out of Lord of the RIngs, but they sure as fuck don't own any of it.

It'll happen again and again too. Some group of fanboys are gonna get together and make a mod based on [insert anime, old video game or popular movie/TV franchise here] using [insert whatever the current moddable RPG of the time is], then get bitch-slapped with a cease and desist and cry foul. I'm sorry, but this is the world we live in, like it or not. Make your own shit up, it's as simple as that. Don't like it? Well don't bitch when [insert faceless corporation here] tells you to shut down whatever the fuck you were working on - either keep working on it in defiance or cop the fine. Either way don't act surprised.

Not trying to sound like an asshole here, and I sincerely hope you don't take this as a personal attack @Andrewkin, but these people have to learn. That Chrono Trigger 3D game looked bad-ass a few years back, but it was doomed from the start. I don't want these guys to fail, but it's inevitable.

@Andrewkin said:

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

They're not making money off of the project though. Absolutely no one is getting paid for their work on the mod. If you visit the developer website, the headline says "Not for profit, all volunteer."

If a group infringes a copyright, and is trying to make money off of it, by all means, do what you can to take them down, but MERP isn't making any money. It's a labor of love to the fans that can only bring more people into the LOTR universe, which would most likely get people to buy official "merchandise".

This sounds nice, but it doesn't work that way. Yet people keep doing it. These kids may love the shit out of Lord of the RIngs, but they sure as fuck don't own any of it.

It'll happen again and again too. Some group of fanboys are gonna get together and make a mod based on [insert anime, old video game or popular movie/TV franchise here] using [insert whatever the current moddable RPG of the time is], then get bitch-slapped with a cease and desist and cry foul. I'm sorry, but this is the world we live in, like it or not. Make your own shit up, it's as simple as that. Don't like it? Well don't bitch when [insert faceless corporation here] tells you to shut down whatever the fuck you were working on - either keep working on it in defiance or cop the fine. Either way don't act surprised.

Not trying to sound like an asshole here, and I sincerely hope you don't take this as a personal attack @Andrewkin, but these people have to learn. That Chrono Trigger 3D game looked bad-ass a few years back, but it was doomed from the start. I don't want these guys to fail, but it's inevitable.

Real talk: most fan project "cease and desists" means "yeah half our team 'met a girl' and isn't responding to our calls, so this is our way of saving face".

It was to be expected, with Lord of the Rings Online, where they offer you on a similar experience. This project could draw players (and as such potential money) away from the game and over to the mod.

Cease and desists towards mods happen every now and then, sometimes it's because the mod is too similar to a unreleased project (like the C&C Halo mod and Halo Wars) or in this case where they are stepping on other peoples toes by making a game that is potentially similar to an already existing game released by the owner of the franchise.

These kind of fan-projects should read up on what the company allows fans to do with their IP, and maybe contact the IP holder to get their blessing.

They might not be making money, but they could be eating into sales of a new LOTR game.

Rainbow Dash is right. Expecting a massive, open-world action-RPG experience in the Lord of the Rings, which WB doesn't see a cent of, getting tacitly approved is a fool's errand.

Besides, there is plenty to mine in the Elder Scrolls universe - Elsweyr's been done, for example.

shame. hopefully they lighten up. u guys have my support.

@BraveToaster said:

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

This. Spreading negative publicity for this is stupid.

What are you talking about? It's a free mod.

You'd think by now that people would understand to wait until AFTER their IP-infringing mod is complete and out in the wild before advertising it. Then at least people would get to play it.

Yea, that BLOWS to put so much work into something like that. Sadly I dont see them changing their mind.

If it's a free mod, what legal recourse does Warner Bro's actually have? How can you stop somebody from making something they have no intention of making money from?

Color me confused.

Can WB do that? I thought LOTR belonged to Tolkien Enterprises, or something like that . . . These mod people should get in touch with those and let them know it's a non-profit fan made mod!

A real shame. I don't care much for TLOTR but to see so much hard work vanish is heartbreaking. I think WB are reallly hurting themselves by doing this as well. It always pays to foster good relations with your fanbase and to try and work with, not shut down people who are big fans of your IP.

Think of all the good publicity which could have come from a co-operative relationship with these people. There's no chance of a mod detracting from their own game - its all good publicity. This just makes them look petty, and angers potential customers.

@CL60 said:

@PandaBear

@Andrewkin said:

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

They're not making money off of the project though. Absolutely no one is getting paid for their work on the mod. If you visit the developer website, the headline says "Not for profit, all volunteer."

If a group infringes a copyright, and is trying to make money off of it, by all means, do what you can to take them down, but MERP isn't making any money. It's a labor of love to the fans that can only bring more people into the LOTR universe, which would most likely get people to buy official "merchandise".

This sounds nice, but it doesn't work that way. Yet people keep doing it. These kids may love the shit out of Lord of the RIngs, but they sure as fuck don't own any of it.

It'll happen again and again too. Some group of fanboys are gonna get together and make a mod based on [insert anime, old video game or popular movie/TV franchise here] using [insert whatever the current moddable RPG of the time is], then get bitch-slapped with a cease and desist and cry foul. I'm sorry, but this is the world we live in, like it or not. Make your own shit up, it's as simple as that. Don't like it? Well don't bitch when [insert faceless corporation here] tells you to shut down whatever the fuck you were working on - either keep working on it in defiance or cop the fine. Either way don't act surprised.

Not trying to sound like an asshole here, and I sincerely hope you don't take this as a personal attack @Andrewkin, but these people have to learn. That Chrono Trigger 3D game looked bad-ass a few years back, but it was doomed from the start. I don't want these guys to fail, but it's inevitable.

Except it's not inevitable, there are plenty of total conversion mods that never get shut down. Calling people who make them stupid for even trying is ridiculous. A mod with your own assets that is 100% non profit should not get shut down. What's next? Shutting down fan art websites because they are "stealing our designs!!" It's fucking dumb.

Except it's not entirely your own assets if you're basing it on an existing intellectual property.

Their biggest mistake was putting it on ModDB and broadcasting its existence to the internet long before they were ready to release it. If they worked on it quietly and then just released it one day, there would be nothing WB could do about it at that point.

@Muttinus_Rump: @CL60: Warner Bros. is well within their rights to do this, regardless of whether it's for profit or not. "Oh these guys won't let me use their property, I'm going to tell everyone that they're poopy heads." That sounds ridiculous to me. Maybe they should have went through the proper channels and asked for permission, just so they wouldn't waste their time making something.

@PeteyCoco said:

They might not be making money, but they could be eating into sales of a new LOTR game.

Also, this too.

The mod is free, but the software to play the mod isn't.

Also, companies will go after anything that they think will cheapen the intellectual property, which a mod for a game can potentially do.

@Hailinel said:

@CL60 said:

@PandaBear

@Andrewkin said:

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

They're not making money off of the project though. Absolutely no one is getting paid for their work on the mod. If you visit the developer website, the headline says "Not for profit, all volunteer."

If a group infringes a copyright, and is trying to make money off of it, by all means, do what you can to take them down, but MERP isn't making any money. It's a labor of love to the fans that can only bring more people into the LOTR universe, which would most likely get people to buy official "merchandise".

This sounds nice, but it doesn't work that way. Yet people keep doing it. These kids may love the shit out of Lord of the RIngs, but they sure as fuck don't own any of it.

It'll happen again and again too. Some group of fanboys are gonna get together and make a mod based on [insert anime, old video game or popular movie/TV franchise here] using [insert whatever the current moddable RPG of the time is], then get bitch-slapped with a cease and desist and cry foul. I'm sorry, but this is the world we live in, like it or not. Make your own shit up, it's as simple as that. Don't like it? Well don't bitch when [insert faceless corporation here] tells you to shut down whatever the fuck you were working on - either keep working on it in defiance or cop the fine. Either way don't act surprised.

Not trying to sound like an asshole here, and I sincerely hope you don't take this as a personal attack @Andrewkin, but these people have to learn. That Chrono Trigger 3D game looked bad-ass a few years back, but it was doomed from the start. I don't want these guys to fail, but it's inevitable.

Except it's not inevitable, there are plenty of total conversion mods that never get shut down. Calling people who make them stupid for even trying is ridiculous. A mod with your own assets that is 100% non profit should not get shut down. What's next? Shutting down fan art websites because they are "stealing our designs!!" It's fucking dumb.

Except it's not entirely your own assets if you're basing it on an existing intellectual property.

That's a big part of it. Look at the screenshots... that Treebeard guy looks a lot like the one from the movie. And these guys aren't stupid, they put a lot of work into this mod and it looks cool. Seriously, a Skyrim-style Lord of the Rings game could be excellent... and that's the point. What if Warner Bros. decide to do this? Should they have to compete with a fan mod that could compromise their sales? I'm not pro this, nor do I think fan art should be banned or anything crazy like that. I doubt developers care if people make cool drawings of their properties or do silly parodies, and yes sometime total conversations are allowed, but people need to learn - seek permission FIRST.

It doesn't matter that it's 100% free. Never has, never will. This is about protecting IP, branding and ensuring any video game on the market with the Lord of the Rings name, regardless of it's profit potential, is overseen by Warner Bros... Those are the rules, we all know it, we've seen enough fan-made games get shut down, deal with it.

Countdown until a Game of Thrones mod for Skyrim comes along (if it hasn't already) and gets shut down.

@Hailinel said:

@CL60 said:

@PandaBear

@Andrewkin said:

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

They're not making money off of the project though. Absolutely no one is getting paid for their work on the mod. If you visit the developer website, the headline says "Not for profit, all volunteer."

If a group infringes a copyright, and is trying to make money off of it, by all means, do what you can to take them down, but MERP isn't making any money. It's a labor of love to the fans that can only bring more people into the LOTR universe, which would most likely get people to buy official "merchandise".

This sounds nice, but it doesn't work that way. Yet people keep doing it. These kids may love the shit out of Lord of the RIngs, but they sure as fuck don't own any of it.

It'll happen again and again too. Some group of fanboys are gonna get together and make a mod based on [insert anime, old video game or popular movie/TV franchise here] using [insert whatever the current moddable RPG of the time is], then get bitch-slapped with a cease and desist and cry foul. I'm sorry, but this is the world we live in, like it or not. Make your own shit up, it's as simple as that. Don't like it? Well don't bitch when [insert faceless corporation here] tells you to shut down whatever the fuck you were working on - either keep working on it in defiance or cop the fine. Either way don't act surprised.

Not trying to sound like an asshole here, and I sincerely hope you don't take this as a personal attack @Andrewkin, but these people have to learn. That Chrono Trigger 3D game looked bad-ass a few years back, but it was doomed from the start. I don't want these guys to fail, but it's inevitable.

Except it's not inevitable, there are plenty of total conversion mods that never get shut down. Calling people who make them stupid for even trying is ridiculous. A mod with your own assets that is 100% non profit should not get shut down. What's next? Shutting down fan art websites because they are "stealing our designs!!" It's fucking dumb.

Except it's not entirely your own assets if you're basing it on an existing intellectual property.

As one of the devs for MERP, I assure you that our work is transformative. Yet, the quality in our work would might say otherwise as if "we are ripping" other content. That is not the case. Many of our devs are professionals and/or progressed in their skill growth well enough to be hired by another gaming company. Our project is transformative, inspired, and referenced by original work. We do not profit and only want other fans to experience Middle-Earth as it should have been within a game setting. Currently, we have legal representation assisting us to show that MERP's mod is transformative, though specific areas might need changing. Either way it should not be shut down. ~ Aoikani

As I understand it, a Cease & Desist letter is just a threat of legal action. Any lawyer can draft one up, and they are often sent by large corporations to scare smaller organizations. If it was drawn up by a judge, that's a C & S order, which is an actual legal order. I sincerely doubt it's the C & S order, as that costs time & money to get one drawn up by a judge, and you need a fairly strong legal case. That, and C & S letters are sent out by corporations like coupons. It's basically a formal threat.

If the project continues, it is likely WB would send out more threats, but to make an actual legal case, they would need to prove that this project would cost them money by hurting a project that is currently in development. Otherwise, it is simply a not-for-profit fan mod.

EDIT: You'll notice that the OP calls it a C & S order, while the official notice by the modders names it a C & S letter. WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

@aoikani said:

@Hailinel said:

@CL60 said:

@PandaBear

@Andrewkin said:

@PandaBear said:

As much as it's a shame I never understand why people start these project. Lord of the Rings is a property making a massive faceless corporation a lot of money, did anyone really think Warner Bros. would say "Yeah! That's cool! Make money off our property, we don't care!".

They're not making money off of the project though. Absolutely no one is getting paid for their work on the mod. If you visit the developer website, the headline says "Not for profit, all volunteer."

If a group infringes a copyright, and is trying to make money off of it, by all means, do what you can to take them down, but MERP isn't making any money. It's a labor of love to the fans that can only bring more people into the LOTR universe, which would most likely get people to buy official "merchandise".

This sounds nice, but it doesn't work that way. Yet people keep doing it. These kids may love the shit out of Lord of the RIngs, but they sure as fuck don't own any of it.

It'll happen again and again too. Some group of fanboys are gonna get together and make a mod based on [insert anime, old video game or popular movie/TV franchise here] using [insert whatever the current moddable RPG of the time is], then get bitch-slapped with a cease and desist and cry foul. I'm sorry, but this is the world we live in, like it or not. Make your own shit up, it's as simple as that. Don't like it? Well don't bitch when [insert faceless corporation here] tells you to shut down whatever the fuck you were working on - either keep working on it in defiance or cop the fine. Either way don't act surprised.

Not trying to sound like an asshole here, and I sincerely hope you don't take this as a personal attack @Andrewkin, but these people have to learn. That Chrono Trigger 3D game looked bad-ass a few years back, but it was doomed from the start. I don't want these guys to fail, but it's inevitable.

Except it's not inevitable, there are plenty of total conversion mods that never get shut down. Calling people who make them stupid for even trying is ridiculous. A mod with your own assets that is 100% non profit should not get shut down. What's next? Shutting down fan art websites because they are "stealing our designs!!" It's fucking dumb.

Except it's not entirely your own assets if you're basing it on an existing intellectual property.

As one of the devs for MERP, I assure you that our work is transformative. Yet, the quality in our work would might say otherwise as if "we are ripping" other content. That is not the case. Many of our devs are professionals and/or progressed in their skill growth well enough to be hired by another gaming company. Our project is transformative, inspired, and referenced by original work. We do not profit and only want other fans to experience Middle-Earth as it should have been within a game setting. Currently, we have legal representation assisting us to show that MERP's mod is transformative, though specific areas might need changing. Either way it should not be shut down. ~ Aoikani

I think the quality of the work speaks for itself and I have no doubt you guys are skilled at what you do. But the precedent that would be set if Warner Bros. says okay to this would be huge. I mean go to http://www.moddb.com/mods/merp-middle-earth-roleplaying-project/images/ and compare what has been done to what is in the movies. People have even commented how much it looks like the movie! Transformative or not, these designs belong to Warner Bros. and the Tolkien estate, and when you look at things like Treebeard or Helms Deep it is an almost one-to-one recreation of designs from Weta Workshops.

We do not profit and only want other fans to experience Middle-Earth as it should have been within a game setting.

This doesn't matter and would not hold up in any court of law. People need to stop saying "if it's free it's okay". It's not. Examples like Half-Life Black Mesa are the exceptionnot the rule.

I hope the work isn't wasted and you guys can do something cool with this, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on unless a lawyer or a judge says "sure, take these copyrighted designs, concepts, brand and logos and use them however you want!".

I was just reading about this story and it reminded me about that White Council LOTR game that was supposed to come out.

Look on the bright side...going along with  @iAmJohn and  @Cretaceous_Bob 's points, maybe this means that The White Council is getting resurrected.

the exact same thing happened to the lord of the rings total conversion mod for morrowind way back when.

Let us remember also that if a company does not make an effort to protect its IP they run the risk of having it declared public domain and losing their rights for exclusive use.