@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

@Bell_End said:

@Lysergica33 said:

@Karkarov said:

@Lysergica33 said:

10,000 sigs and counting on that petition to remove GFWL. Honestly, I could see this swaying From into abandoning GFWL.

I said earlier in the topic that the tone that the majority of people complaining about GFWL is less-than-civil, but if it means a better version of the game, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.

I have to ask, how EXACTLY does steam make it a "better version of the game"?

Because GFWL is broken as fuck. It's abandonment would automatically make for a better version of the game. But look, I'm not intending to come across as one of those bitchy PC Gaming Master Race types. I'll still buy it, play it and enjoy the fuck out of it regardless of it having GFWL, but I really don't see how anyone who does even the slightest bit of reading about why GFWL is crap (better yet if you've had direct experience of its crapness) would think that its inclusion is a good thing.

Mainly, I'm just worried that it'll cut into sales to the point that From just won't bother putting anything else on PC after this, because that would be the worst thing that could come of this, not a couple of borked save games. I may not be the type of gamer that will have the knee-jerk reaction of not buying it just because of GFWL and I'm not going to pirate it to send a message, but many PC gamers ARE that type of gamer. That's all I'm trying to say.

i have a feeling this is a last chance kind of thing from FROM software. if it does turn out to be heavily pireted then i would expect it will be the last FROM software game we see on the PC. so lets hope THAT type of gamer does not fuck it up for the rest of us that will buy it.

Uh, Wut?

i just think if it gets pirated a lot they won't bother with the PC anymore. just my own thoughts. they might be bollocks though

@whyareyoucrouchingspock: Nice post I was impressed by all of your points that were blatantly false and all the times you quoted part of a sentence but not all of it. How about this instead, stop posting. It isn't like you are posting anything worth reading. As far as the only legitimate thing you said though goes... Mod support means nothing. It makes it "easier" but I sure modded the holy hell out of Morrowind and it wasn't on Steam. Hell I modded Fallout 3 too and it was a GFWL.

@Lysergica33: Just one problem. I have played multiple GFWL titles and never had any big issue with it other than the crappy interface for their storefront. I dare say I had more problems with Fallout New Vegas than I did Fallout 3. Which is interesting because Fallout 3 is GFWL and NV is Steam. You counter with "but that was Obsidians faul" and I counter with "that is exactly my point". Being on Steam did not make NV a "better game" or inherently harder to play or buggier than F3 which was GFWL. GFWL works fine if you bother trying to figure it out. Does it suck for people outside the GFWL area, yes. But then From Software doesn't make PC games and Steam is basically a non entity in Japan which is where From Software is well.... from. Bear in mind their stance also on multiplayer, in game communication, etc etc. All those Steam social features are actually not conducive to what they want the game to be like.

@Bell_End: I doubt From gives two craps how it sells. I am fairly sure it is already the highest selling game they have ever made, at this point in Dark Souls life cycle any sales at all are just icing. Like Rebgav said this is probably the first if not only pc port they have ever done as well. Simply put, From doesn't make PC games.

@Bell_End said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

@Bell_End said:

@Lysergica33 said:

@Karkarov said:

@Lysergica33 said:

10,000 sigs and counting on that petition to remove GFWL. Honestly, I could see this swaying From into abandoning GFWL.

I said earlier in the topic that the tone that the majority of people complaining about GFWL is less-than-civil, but if it means a better version of the game, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.

I have to ask, how EXACTLY does steam make it a "better version of the game"?

Because GFWL is broken as fuck. It's abandonment would automatically make for a better version of the game. But look, I'm not intending to come across as one of those bitchy PC Gaming Master Race types. I'll still buy it, play it and enjoy the fuck out of it regardless of it having GFWL, but I really don't see how anyone who does even the slightest bit of reading about why GFWL is crap (better yet if you've had direct experience of its crapness) would think that its inclusion is a good thing.

Mainly, I'm just worried that it'll cut into sales to the point that From just won't bother putting anything else on PC after this, because that would be the worst thing that could come of this, not a couple of borked save games. I may not be the type of gamer that will have the knee-jerk reaction of not buying it just because of GFWL and I'm not going to pirate it to send a message, but many PC gamers ARE that type of gamer. That's all I'm trying to say.

i have a feeling this is a last chance kind of thing from FROM software. if it does turn out to be heavily pireted then i would expect it will be the last FROM software game we see on the PC. so lets hope THAT type of gamer does not fuck it up for the rest of us that will buy it.

Uh, Wut?

i just think if it gets pirated a lot they won't bother with the PC anymore. just my own thoughts. they might be bollocks though

This game has gotten alot more attention than a typical port. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up selling alot on pc, more than they probably expected.

It probably will get pirated to fuck though. Pc gaming is great because it's an open platform. Sadly, alot of people on it, not so great...

@iAmJohn said:

I will buy this regardless.

Dee Toe

@Karkarov said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

@Karkarov said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

If your just going to edit my post out I bother reading this Try re-editing it with my post back in and i will be happy to discuss the topic.

Sorry but if you can't condense your thoughts into one post instead of 32 one liners I am not going to do it for you.

I did. I am simply replying to people more respectful and less self-absorbed than you.

The fact you wont even do something as simple as requested and expect me to read a long ass rant says alot. None of it good.

Of course I apologize. I should have spoken more on your high intellectual level and used the word Cunt 5 times in one sentence.

@Lysergica33 said:

10,000 sigs and counting on that petition to remove GFWL. Honestly, I could see this swaying From into abandoning GFWL.

I said earlier in the topic that the tone that the majority of people complaining about GFWL is less-than-civil, but if it means a better version of the game, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.

I have to ask, how EXACTLY does steam make it a "better version of the game"?

Cloud saves?

Dark Souls PC port is being done by Hijinx Studios, who are responsible for the abomination that is Silent Hill HD collection...

@MikkaQ said:

Cloud saves?

Not sure cloud saves would even work considering the mechanics of the game. Also... there is this. So that isn't really a "steam" advantage.

@alternate said:

Dark Souls PC port is being done by Hijinx Studios, who are responsible for the abomination that is Silent Hill HD collection...

Well this is good and bad news. Bad in that it doesn't look that hot for the PC port. Good in that it confirms From isn't doing it but they made the content. Meaning it basically locks all this stuff for being available on the consoles too.

@Karkarov said:

@MikkaQ said:

Cloud saves?

Not sure cloud saves would even work considering the mechanics of the game. Also... there is this. So that isn't really a "steam" advantage.

Well there's all the other benefits of Steamworks, like insane stat tracking, anti-cheating and matchmaking which would be a great PC exclusive feature for Dark Souls, it would fix that game's broken multiplayer at least. Also if they ever decide to sell DLC for Dark Souls and it's using GFWL you have to buy that DLC with microsoft points and pay way more than you need to, instead of getting charged the exact amount like Steam does.

There's also the publisher side benefits of controlling the game's release, restricting regions and having DRM that doesn't annoy the customers into piracy.

@alternate said:

Dark Souls PC port is being done by Hijinx Studios, who are responsible for the abomination that is Silent Hill HD collection...

Oh dear...

@MikkaQ said:

@Karkarov said:

Well there's all the other benefits of Steamworks, like insane stat tracking, anti-cheating and matchmaking which would be a great PC exclusive feature for Dark Souls, it would fix that game's broken multiplayer at least.

Uh stat tracking doesn't make the game more fun for alot of people. Like me. Anti cheating in Dark Souls is a funny thing to say. Would you like to know how the games built in mechanics can allow you to do a backstab for over 30k damage? Steam isn't going to stop that. The game already has plenty of ways to cheat built into it in other words. Also why do people keep ignoring the fact that the Souls games use their own matchmaking system? You couldn't use the one on PSN or 360 so why do you think they would let you use the one on Steam?

The devs themselves have said a large part of the game is the atmosphere and the idea that you are alone. Voice coms, in game messaging, and easy match making are anathema to the very intent of From's design. So no, Steam "community" features aren't going to do crap for the game because it doesn't work that way. The consoles didn't limit the multiplayer of Dark and Demon's Souls. From Software did, by design.

I will deal with GFWL for smooth framerates.

@Karkarov said:

@MikkaQ said:

@Karkarov said:

Well there's all the other benefits of Steamworks, like insane stat tracking, anti-cheating and matchmaking which would be a great PC exclusive feature for Dark Souls, it would fix that game's broken multiplayer at least.

Uh stat tracking doesn't make the game more fun for alot of people. Like me. Anti cheating in Dark Souls is a funny thing to say. Would you like to know how the games built in mechanics can allow you to do a backstab for over 30k damage? Steam isn't going to stop that. The game already has plenty of ways to cheat built into it in other words. Also why do people keep ignoring the fact that the Souls games use their own matchmaking system? You couldn't use the one on PSN or 360 so why do you think they would let you use the one on Steam?

The devs themselves have said a large part of the game is the atmosphere and the idea that you are alone. Voice coms, in game messaging, and easy match making are anathema to the very intent of From's design. So no, Steam "community" features aren't going to do crap for the game because it doesn't work that way. The consoles didn't limit the multiplayer of Dark and Demon's Souls. From Software did, by design.

Yeah I know it was deliberate. It's also an awful design ethos, kneecapping features considered standard in order to make a statement. That's like releasing a book with no page numbers and saying it's more immersive. It's just broken.

Anyway my point is proven, Steamworks has more features and is better designed than anything involving GFWL, I don't actually care how they apply it to this game since I think it's one of the worst games to get critical appeal in years.

@alternate said:

Dark Souls PC port is being done by Hijinx Studios, who are responsible for the abomination that is Silent Hill HD collection...

Well, gg From.

I did not join Steam by choice. I was required to create a Steam account so I could install my boxed retail copy of Half-Life 1 Anthology. Boxed retail copy. Of a collection of games that predated Steam. I hated that. It's grown on me since then, but I still don't like being forced to create an account and use such services. Steam, GWFL, Origin, whatever. They should all be optional if included in retail single-player games, but of course they're not.

@MikkaQ said:

Anyway my point is proven, Steamworks has more features and is better designed than anything involving GFWL, I don't actually care how they apply it to this game since I think it's one of the worst games to get critical appeal in years.

Wait a minute I want to be sure I understand this.... The game is shit and you think the devs are stupid. So why is it you give a flip if it is on steam or not? Meanwhile your point doesn't exist. Origin/GWFL etc either already have all of Steam's "features" or will have them soon.

GFWL is just the dumbest fucking thing to release that with. They are asking for trouble

@Karkarov said:

@MikkaQ said:

Anyway my point is proven, Steamworks has more features and is better designed than anything involving GFWL, I don't actually care how they apply it to this game since I think it's one of the worst games to get critical appeal in years.

Wait a minute I want to be sure I understand this.... The game is shit and you think the devs are stupid. So why is it you give a flip if it is on steam or not? Meanwhile your point doesn't exist. Origin/GWFL etc either already have all of Steam's "features" or will have them soon.

Because I want every PC game on steam. I don't like holding multiple accounts with my CC info on them, it's enough of a pain in the ass that I have to have that with each console, let alone more than one for a PC.

Also Origin and GFWL still lack the robustness of Steamworks. Look at Skyrim/TF2, there is no game out now with a more comprehensive and integrated mod platform than them. They're streamlining the last complicated part of PC gaming, the mods, so that anyone can enjoy them.

Plus steam is way more inclusive than Origin and GFWL. Origin has a pitiable selection, GFWL live is a little better, but neither have any indie games.