@Hailinel: True. We did expect that. But we were all wrong weren't we?

@Mongoose23 said:

@Hailinel: True. We did expect that. But we were all wrong weren't we?

Yes, and if Bioware comes out and says, "Surprise! Download the true ending for [insert dollar amount here]!', you don't think people have a reason to be put off by that? Would you honestly be willing to reward Bioware for their inability to deliver a proper ending in the actual game, even if that means an ending that was obviously cobbled together to appease enraged fans?

@Hailinel: Oh trust me, people have a reason to be put off by it. They shouldn't be rewarded for the inability to deliver and ending people seem to like. But if they give us a better ending and charge for it; what are people gonna do? Boycott the better ending they wanted? No, they'll shell out the money for it. As sad as that is, it's the truth.

@Mongoose23 said:

@Hailinel: I would pay 10 bucks for some satisfaction. It wont hurt anybody i think. Most of us have put more than two hundred into the Mass Effect franchise already.

Don't be so sure that it wouldn't hurt anybody. It would set a terrible precedent for future games. Can you imagine what would happen if publishers had evidence that people would pay $10 extra just to get a proper ending to their game?

Personally I think changing the ending is a dumb idea, but charging real money for it is more than just dumb, it's dangerous.

Oh god. Don't buy a new ending people, there's enough consumer gouging already, do not give them free passage to do more of it.

Fans enraged by game, instead of threatening no more purchases, want to pay more for them to fix what should have been in there already? There's no way in hell that can be right.

If I tweeted, I'd probably say " You probably should have worried more about the writing then appealing to newcomers and multiplayer components. "

@Wrighteous86 said:

@DeShawn2ks: Because the only reason people believe the indoctrination thing is BECAUSE of how random and bad the endings were. Sure, they found ways to back it up, but if the whole game were the same except for the nonsensical ending, no one would have considered he were indoctrinated. If they attempted to drop hints throughout the story, they did it pretty poorly. So they either had a bad ending, or a great ending that was executed badly.

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

Actually, the comparison to Blade Runner is interesting because (Blade Runner spoilers) the entire lynchpin of the "Deckard is a Replicant" theory is the fact that he was having dreams about a unicorn, and at the end Gaff makes an origami unicorn as if to say "I've seen your dreams too". And in Mass Effect 3, for the first time in the series, there are dream sequences. And at the end of the game, something from those dreams (the boy, obviously) seems to materialize in Shepard's real life. It's a very interesting parallel. And an indication, to me anyway, that the clues are there in the game.

That was the point I was making. Mass Effect has always been a big dumb action series. A B-movie Sci-Fi romp. If they decided to make it a deep, twisty, Blade Runner story for the last one, it's inconsistent and done pretty poorly. While that would be an amazing game ending, if that is indeed the ending, it could have been executed better.

I agree with you that it could have been handled better at the end and that is what led me to the theory honestly. I didn't question anything when he was in London going to the citadel. My questions started when shooting the Illusive Man was a renegade renegade trigger when he had a gun pointed at the back of Andersons head. Then the child VI I am guessing trying to turn me away from the Reapers. Then I started to wonder why was the catalyst showing up to me as this kid and how did it even know about him. That is when I started thinking about indoctrination and how control was the color of paragon, synthesis was all bright and shiny saying "hey you should come this way", and destroy was renegade even though destroying the Reapers was what we were trying to do after we found out about them.

I was going to write something up to see if anyone felt the same way but someone already pointed me to the theory before I could after I beat the game. I wasn't grasping at straws or anything I was feeling this way before the ending. Once I did beat the game I thought it was bs. I wasn't filled with rage like it seemed like a lot of people were just let down. Honestly I wanted a 20 min long Lord of the Rings ending with me in Liara at our house on a distant planet making some ribs with all my friends, and a bunch of little blue babies running around.

@Mongoose23 said:

@Hailinel: Oh trust me, people have a reason to be put off by it. They shouldn't be rewarded for the inability to deliver and ending people seem to like. But if they give us a better ending and charge for it; what are people gonna do? Boycott the better ending they wanted? No, they'll shell out the money for it. As sad as that is, it's the truth.

Yes, and if it works, we can expect similar to happen in the next Dragon Age.

@DeShawn2ks said:

@Wrighteous86 said:

@DeShawn2ks said:

@Mongoose23: There is a lot of evidence out there that is pointing to Shepard being indoctrinated. It makes sense to me after reading all the info out there about why this is. It is possible they are wrong and all of us who thought that might feel stupid. Then if Bioware comes out and says yes Shepard was slowly being indoctrinated and points to all the evidence out there as proof people will then say Bioware sucks because they had a crappy ending and stole the idea to fix it from people who were already talking about Shepard being indoctrinated.

The proper way then, would to have been to make that clear in the game's story. Even if it was revealed at the end. This isn't fucking Blade Runner.

The way it is now, if they come out with DLC and say Shepard WAS indoctrinated, either they "stole it from people" or "they kept it vague to make a confusing ending so more people would feel compelled to buy the DLC that explains it".

Why is the proper way to telegraph what is happening and not drop little hints through out the story? I'm not saying one what is right or wrong but why can't you do one or the other? Also I am sorry I never so fucking Blade Runner so I don't know what you are talking about. Only beef I will have with the DLC angle is if they charge for it.

Actually, the comparison to Blade Runner is interesting because (Blade Runner spoilers) the entire lynchpin of the "Deckard is a Replicant" theory is the fact that he was having dreams about a unicorn, and at the end Gaff makes an origami unicorn as if to say "I've seen your dreams too". And in Mass Effect 3, for the first time in the series, there are dream sequences. And at the end of the game, something from those dreams (the boy, obviously) seems to materialize in Shepard's real life. It's a very interesting parallel. And an indication, to me anyway, that the clues are there in the game.

@Kevin_Cogneto: Bethesda already did all of that and they got away with it. They did talk about that on the bombcast. But if people are gonna complain about an ending and then get one that costs some money, they'll pay it. Publishers get away with day one DLC and adding extra content. If BioWare puts out other DLC with new missions that take place before the ending, its not really all that better when you think about it. If they decide to extend the ending and change stuff, let em do it.

Well it's to little to late. Remember when Microsoft accidentally leaked content months ago pertaining to Mass Effect 3, people data mined the hell out of it, posted the endings, aroused an uproar over how shitty they were, and BioWare said they'd take the criticism and comments and potentially alter the endings but they did jack shit? Because I do. In addition you MUST play the multiplayer to get the absolute best ending because you have to have 100% Galactic Readiness across all theaters of battle AND a minimum of 5000 points. So I pose this question, what in the fuck are you supposed to do if 5 years down the road you want to play through the entire series again just for nostalgia's sake? I seriously doubt that in 5 years people will be playing what is essentially a gimped Horde Mode with 5 fucking maps.

The only reason they're asking is because people are now demanding closure and we can expect it to come via DLC. DLC for a fucking ending. It's as if Citizen Kane ended right before the Rosebud bit, but hey, you could always buy the real ending if you really want to. It's only 10 dollars more to get some fucking closure for a product that spanned 6 years, 3 30+ hour games, and you paid at least 60 dollars for.

I've gone off on the game enough over the From Ashes DLC having assets on the disc and being held back to monetize it further and treat fans like shit, as well as the ending, so I'll just stop. I choose to only remember Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2. After that everything else, in my mind anyway, is moot.

@Arker101 said:

Fans enraged by game, instead of threatening no more purchases, want to pay more for them to fix what should have been in there already? There's no way in hell that can be right.

That's how much people care about this series. If it was just an average game series, no one would give a shit and shrug it off. They delivered something that was significantly inferior to both what we know they can deliver, and what they DID deliver prior to that ending.

People are invested in the series and that's why they'll see it through to the end, even if they tack 15$ onto that (and there's no reason to suspect this until that's what they announced. They could add onto it for free if they want).

If this is tried again, it won't work unless the market dictates that it's worth it. That's why I really don't care about the "precedent" this sets.

@AiurFlux said:

Well it's to little to late. Remember when Microsoft accidentally leaked content months ago pertaining to Mass Effect 3, people data mined the hell out of it, posted the endings, aroused an uproar over how shitty they were, and BioWare said they'd take the criticism and comments and potentially alter the endings but they did jack shit? Because I do. In addition you MUST play the multiplayer to get the absolute best ending because you have to have 100% Galactic Readiness across all theaters of battle AND a minimum of 5000 points. So I pose this question, what in the fuck are you supposed to do if 5 years down the road you want to play through the entire series again just for nostalgia's sake? I seriously doubt that in 5 years people will be playing what is essentially a gimped Horde Mode with 5 fucking maps.

The only reason they're asking is because people are now demanding closure and we can expect it to come via DLC. DLC for a fucking ending. It's as if Citizen Kane ended right before the Rosebud bit, but hey, you could always buy the real ending if you really want to. It's only 10 dollars more to get some fucking closure for a product that spanned 6 years, 3 30+ hour games, and you paid at least 60 dollars for.

I've gone off on the game enough over the From Ashes DLC having assets on the disc and being held back to monetize it further and treat fans like shit, as well as the ending, so I'll just stop. I choose to only remember Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2. After that everything else, in my mind anyway, is moot.

I don't remember having to play the multiplayer to get the "best" ending. My bar was filled before I did the last couple of missions maybe even before that. I didn't mess with the multiplayer until I was going for the defender acheivement.

@Hailinel: Oh trust me, people have a reason to be put off by it. They shouldn't be rewarded for the inability to deliver and ending people seem to like. But if they give us a better ending and charge for it; what are people gonna do? Boycott the better ending they wanted? No, they'll shell out the money for it. As sad as that is, it's the truth.

Just accept the fact that they fucked the ending up(I guess?)bitch about it then move on.

@Hailinel: The thing is, I don't think people will fall for it again. If BioWare's trademark becomes, "Lets put out a game with a shitty ending and charge for a new one." People will start to walk away. If you though that the shitstorm that came about from this game's ending was bad; just imagine how people will react if the pulled the same stuff in Dragon Age.

Do I think that changing the ending and charging money is a good idea? No

Will I enable BioWare? Yes. I probably have some sort of masochistic tendency or something. I don't know.

This whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If they really thought the ending was good, then it was just a bad decision. It's really unfair that people say they did it just to facilitate DLC. Could they be doing that? Yeah, probably. But they've been good about keeping people happy until recently with DA2, ToR, and now the ME3 ending. Why would they change their business practices now?

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@DeShawn2ks said:

@Wrighteous86 said:

@DeShawn2ks said:

@Mongoose23: There is a lot of evidence out there that is pointing to Shepard being indoctrinated. It makes sense to me after reading all the info out there about why this is. It is possible they are wrong and all of us who thought that might feel stupid. Then if Bioware comes out and says yes Shepard was slowly being indoctrinated and points to all the evidence out there as proof people will then say Bioware sucks because they had a crappy ending and stole the idea to fix it from people who were already talking about Shepard being indoctrinated.

The proper way then, would to have been to make that clear in the game's story. Even if it was revealed at the end. This isn't fucking Blade Runner.

The way it is now, if they come out with DLC and say Shepard WAS indoctrinated, either they "stole it from people" or "they kept it vague to make a confusing ending so more people would feel compelled to buy the DLC that explains it".

Why is the proper way to telegraph what is happening and not drop little hints through out the story? I'm not saying one what is right or wrong but why can't you do one or the other? Also I am sorry I never so fucking Blade Runner so I don't know what you are talking about. Only beef I will have with the DLC angle is if they charge for it.

Actually, the comparison to Blade Runner is interesting because (Blade Runner spoilers) the entire lynchpin of the "Deckard is a Replicant" theory is the fact that he was having dreams about a unicorn, and at the end Gaff makes an origami unicorn as if to say "I've seen your dreams too". And in Mass Effect 3, for the first time in the series, there are dream sequences. And at the end of the game, something from those dreams (the boy, obviously) seems to materialize in Shepard's real life. It's a very interesting parallel. And an indication, to me anyway, that the clues are there in the game.

No. No. Common misconception.
You know what the difference between Blade Runner's ending and Mass Effect 3's is? The non-dream ending, the one that most movie-goers will initially think is the only ending, the one we all watch on our screens and is an actual, view-able part of the movie that we all watch? Yeh, that ending actually makes sense. It is a good ending, without plot holes or inconsistencies, an ending that doesn't give a big fuck you to the rest of the movie's themes and story. There is absolutely no reason to create a shitty inconsistent, plot hole-ridden decoy regular ending, just because the 'real, deeper' ending is hidden in minor plot details and suggestions.

Fair enough, I mean we've already had this discussion, you and I, so there's no need to repeat it. I just think that just because the ending doesn't fit together purely on a plot level (and I agree it doesn't) doesn't necessarily make the ending a failure, because there may be very good reasons why that's the case. Obviously it's up to each one of us to decide whether those reasons are good enough.

Since we're making comparisons to movies here, this discussion is making me think of The Fountain, the Aronofsky movie. If you really deconstruct that movie purely on the basis of plot, it never quite comes together. Are the conquistador scenes real, or just a fictional story made up by the wife? Is Tom actually immortal or isn't he? Are the future-bubble scenes real, or are they just in Tom's head? There is no one explanation that can answer all of the plot questions that movie raises. But personally I could care less, as long as the story works for me on an emotional level, and in the case of both The Fountain and Mass Effect 3, it works just fine for me.

@Mongoose23 said:

@Hailinel: The thing is, I don't think people will fall for it again. If BioWare's trademark becomes, "Lets put out a game with a shitty ending and charge for a new one." People will start to walk away. If you though that the shitstorm that came about from this game's ending was bad; just imagine how people will react if the pulled the same stuff in Dragon Age.

Do I think that changing the ending and charging money is a good idea? No

Will I enable BioWare? Yes. I probably have some sort of masochistic tendency or something. I don't know.

This whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If they really thought the ending was good, then it was just a bad decision. It's really unfair that people say they did it just to facilitate DLC. Could they be doing that? Yeah, probably. But they've been good about keeping people happy until recently with DA2, ToR, and now the ME3 ending. Why would they change their business practices now?

Kind of funny I got the feeling that the same people trying to force Bioware to make a new ending or add something on to it will be the same ones bitching when more and more companies try to do this. For me it stops at Mass Effect 3.

HAHAHA FUCKING BURNED

What colors do Jeff and Vinny have trouble seeing again?

@DeShawn2ks: Let companies do what they want. I personally don't care if more companies did that. Because if I like the way Halo 4 ends and Microsoft makes a new ending, I'll just ignore it. I don't see you anybody could think that BioWare won't do something. It doesn't even mean that they have to make DLC. Them coming out and addressing it today sits fine with me.

I thought ME3 was alright, albeit terse. I feel like I could have beaten it far faster than I did, only because I spent time looking for all the armor bits.

The ending, however, was definitely shit. It's up there in the realm of shitty endings IMO, being essentially palette-swapped versions of each other.

@familyphotoshoot said:

HAHAHA FUCKING BURNED

What colors do Jeff and Vinny have trouble seeing again?

Alright, as annoying as all this bitching about the ending has been, that is funny as hell.

Jesus Christ, at least they're addressing it. Some people just won't be happy with anything, and that's sad.

@Kevin_Cogneto:Did you seriously just compare an Aronofsky movie to Mass Effect?

Dude, come on. I shouldn't even have to point out how that doesn't work at all.

@Mongoose23: I feel the same way as you.

@familyphotoshoot said:

HAHAHA FUCKING BURNED

What colors do Jeff and Vinny have trouble seeing again?

Red/green.

@familyphotoshoot said:

HAHAHA FUCKING BURNED

What colors do Jeff and Vinny have trouble seeing again?

...And I think to myself...what a wonderful wooooorld.

@Mongoose23 said:

@Hailinel: The thing is, I don't think people will fall for it again. If BioWare's trademark becomes, "Lets put out a game with a shitty ending and charge for a new one." People will start to walk away. If you though that the shitstorm that came about from this game's ending was bad; just imagine how people will react if the pulled the same stuff in Dragon Age.

Do I think that changing the ending and charging money is a good idea? No

Will I enable BioWare? Yes. I probably have some sort of masochistic tendency or something. I don't know.

This whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If they really thought the ending was good, then it was just a bad decision. It's really unfair that people say they did it just to facilitate DLC. Could they be doing that? Yeah, probably. But they've been good about keeping people happy until recently with DA2, ToR, and now the ME3 ending. Why would they change their business practices now?

People assuming Bioware bombing on Dragon Age II's ending was a one-time thing. Turns out that it wasn't, but at the time, people still gave them the benefit of the doubt because Bioware. This is the second time in as many years that Bioware has released a game with a horrid ending, only this time people are demanding that it be changed, and are stating a willingness to pay money to see this happen. These people will be the same fools that pay for the real ending of Dragon Age III.

@benjaebe:

Finishing last night, my own conclusions, and the conspiracy theories on the net kind of point at

The spacekid is Harbringer trying to indoctrinate you - so many hints for this. Anderson doesn't see the kid in the vent, no-one reacts or even notices the kid when they are getting on the shuttle shortly after. The dreams point at his subconcious warning him that the kid is a danger to him. If you read the entries on indoctrination, several of the things come up - Vega asking about a humming noise for example. The end from the point where Harbringer lasers you is probably all false and occuring in your mind, with Harbringer using your memories to finish the indoctrination. There is no way Anderson followed you up, but he does. He suggests everything to you, sheppard doesnt question or argue - not normal. He beats you to the catalyst, despite being behind you, and despite there only being one way on to the platform. The gun you have hear has endless bullets and is probably not real. Sheppard doesn't question the kid at all, who is against killing the reapers. The kid contradicts himself several times. It is believed the choice he gives you is the choice of indoctrination - both options besides destroy change your eyes to the indoctrinated colour in the cutscene after. If you destroy with enough EMS, you get a cutscene of Sheppard waking up on the broken concrete of London and not on material that would come from the citadel. I think Bioware have pulled off the best ending to any video game ever... by tricking us with a fake one that ties into the fiction amazingly well!

@Hailinel: I didn't know about the DA2 thing. If I didn't wouldn't have given them the benefit of the doubt. I played DA2, sold it to a friend, and left it at that. Didn't care for it all that much.

@Sackmanjones said:

@AdMordem

@benjaebe:

Finishing last night, my own conclusions, and the conspiracy theories on the net kind of point at

The spacekid is Harbringer trying to indoctrinate you - so many hints for this. Anderson doesn't see the kid in the vent, no-one reacts or even notices the kid when they are getting on the shuttle shortly after. The dreams point at his subconcious warning him that the kid is a danger to him. If you read the entries on indoctrination, several of the things come up - Vega asking about a humming noise for example. The end from the point where Harbringer lasers you is probably all false and occuring in your mind, with Harbringer using your memories to finish the indoctrination. There is no way Anderson followed you up, but he does. He suggests everything to you, sheppard doesnt question or argue - not normal. He beats you to the catalyst, despite being behind you, and despite there only being one way on to the platform. The gun you have hear has endless bullets and is probably not real. Sheppard doesn't question the kid at all, who is against killing the reapers. The kid contradicts himself several times. It is believed the choice he gives you is the choice of indoctrination - both options besides destroy change your eyes to the indoctrinated colour in the cutscene after. If you destroy with enough EMS, you get a cutscene of Sheppard waking up on the broken concrete of London and not on material that would come from the citadel. I think Bioware have pulled off the best ending to any video game ever... by tricking us with a fake one that ties into the fiction amazingly well!

For the mos part this is how I saw it. Sure there is no true confirmation on it but I truly think Shepard was being controlled by the very end. The most brilliant part is not only did they control Shepard but they controlled the player with small cues such as lighting the choices in blue and red try to make players second guess themselves. Also trying to totally write off the destroy ending as well. Totally awesome

Even if that's the case, and that's what happens, no matter what happens to Shepard at the end, don't the players who invested 3 games in the series deserve to see the actual outcome of their actions and the actual effect that Shepard's choice makes on the universe and not just his indoctrinated fever dream? Good or bad outcome, the game needed an ending. Not just some random explosions and shit.

@Mongoose23 said:

@Hailinel: I didn't know about the DA2 thing. If I didn't wouldn't have given them the benefit of the doubt. I played DA2, sold it to a friend, and left it at that. Didn't care for it all that much.

The ending of Dragon Age II was pants-shittingly stupid, and the game as a whole suffered from problems that people similarly attribute to Mass Effect 3's ending.

@msavo said:

I don't understand how they could not have had a full arc with the story at the end. All these discussions about how it really ended when people should be saying "That was one of the best video game trilogies ever." I'm not asking for a happy ending, I don't think anyone with their head on right is asking that, but for God sakes give some sense of satisfaction for being a part of this journey for the past 5 years. When a large majority of your fan base is pissed off or trying to come up with a ridiculous reason for why everything played out the way it did, to the point where there are rumors it was all a type of dream and the real ending will be released later, than you know you made a mistake somewhere.

Is it possible that Bioware employees have a different view of Shepard and his story because they are responsible for determining the actions he take instead of taking those actions as the playing does? I'd imagine that being responsible for deciding Shepard's options and how he can behave would make him less like a virtual representation of your personality and more like a virtual servant whose fate you control. In other words, the ending was written, animated, and voiced by people who see Shepard as just another character who, like all the other characters in the Mass Effect universe, can be sacrificed as per the demands of the story and the player's choices, while the players see Shepard as a representation of themselves to a degree and will place his safety and happiness above almost all other concerns just as they would do for themselves in real life. Not knowing the final fate of the people Shepard cares about and the galaxy whose civilizations he fought to save is (although far far far far less traumatic, unless you are insane) like hearing that a bomb went off in the town/city/province/district/county/municipality in which you live and then being unable to discover if your family, friends, house, mistress, meth dealer and exotic pet collection (primarily made up of Swedish Fish) were lost in the blast. The weird errors regarding your crew and the poor logic displayed by the boy could be the result of the crunch to finish the game and the fact that obsessive fans spent more time analyzing the ending than the writers at Bioware. I don't know if this makes any sense but I'm pretty proud of the fact that I can still form a sentence after being awake for so long. Sorry if I basically just wrote a bunch of nonsense and weird anti-Yugoslavian statements that you will have to read. At least I can spell correctly still ... I think.

I think that Dragon Age II was just a disappointing all together. The only things I liked was that Sandal was in it, and that elf chick. People seem to have a lot of problems with ME3. My only issue is with the ending and the fact that a lot of the characters were shortchanged. Like Thane for instance.

@Sackmanjones: This is crazy and makes since. I doubt it's the truth though, I kind of hope it is though.

@Wrighteous86 said:

@Sackmanjones said:

@AdMordem

@benjaebe:

Finishing last night, my own conclusions, and the conspiracy theories on the net kind of point at

The spacekid is Harbringer trying to indoctrinate you - so many hints for this. Anderson doesn't see the kid in the vent, no-one reacts or even notices the kid when they are getting on the shuttle shortly after. The dreams point at his subconcious warning him that the kid is a danger to him. If you read the entries on indoctrination, several of the things come up - Vega asking about a humming noise for example. The end from the point where Harbringer lasers you is probably all false and occuring in your mind, with Harbringer using your memories to finish the indoctrination. There is no way Anderson followed you up, but he does. He suggests everything to you, sheppard doesnt question or argue - not normal. He beats you to the catalyst, despite being behind you, and despite there only being one way on to the platform. The gun you have hear has endless bullets and is probably not real. Sheppard doesn't question the kid at all, who is against killing the reapers. The kid contradicts himself several times. It is believed the choice he gives you is the choice of indoctrination - both options besides destroy change your eyes to the indoctrinated colour in the cutscene after. If you destroy with enough EMS, you get a cutscene of Sheppard waking up on the broken concrete of London and not on material that would come from the citadel. I think Bioware have pulled off the best ending to any video game ever... by tricking us with a fake one that ties into the fiction amazingly well!

For the mos part this is how I saw it. Sure there is no true confirmation on it but I truly think Shepard was being controlled by the very end. The most brilliant part is not only did they control Shepard but they controlled the player with small cues such as lighting the choices in blue and red try to make players second guess themselves. Also trying to totally write off the destroy ending as well. Totally awesome

Even if that's the case, and that's what happens, no matter what happens to Shepard at the end, don't the players who invested 3 games in the series deserve to see the actual outcome of their actions and the actual effect that Shepard's choice makes on the universe and not just his indoctrinated fever dream? Good or bad outcome, the game needed an ending. Not just some random explosions and shit.

And even if the ending is an indoctrination fever dream, that doesn't explain away everything, like Joker flying off into the sunset with the crew on board and leaving the battle behind.

It's neat that pretending to care on twitter is such an excellent PR move :)

@Wrighteous86 said:

@Sackmanjones said:

@AdMordem

@benjaebe:

Finishing last night, my own conclusions, and the conspiracy theories on the net kind of point at

The spacekid is Harbringer trying to indoctrinate you - so many hints for this. Anderson doesn't see the kid in the vent, no-one reacts or even notices the kid when they are getting on the shuttle shortly after. The dreams point at his subconcious warning him that the kid is a danger to him. If you read the entries on indoctrination, several of the things come up - Vega asking about a humming noise for example. The end from the point where Harbringer lasers you is probably all false and occuring in your mind, with Harbringer using your memories to finish the indoctrination. There is no way Anderson followed you up, but he does. He suggests everything to you, sheppard doesnt question or argue - not normal. He beats you to the catalyst, despite being behind you, and despite there only being one way on to the platform. The gun you have hear has endless bullets and is probably not real. Sheppard doesn't question the kid at all, who is against killing the reapers. The kid contradicts himself several times. It is believed the choice he gives you is the choice of indoctrination - both options besides destroy change your eyes to the indoctrinated colour in the cutscene after. If you destroy with enough EMS, you get a cutscene of Sheppard waking up on the broken concrete of London and not on material that would come from the citadel. I think Bioware have pulled off the best ending to any video game ever... by tricking us with a fake one that ties into the fiction amazingly well!

For the mos part this is how I saw it. Sure there is no true confirmation on it but I truly think Shepard was being controlled by the very end. The most brilliant part is not only did they control Shepard but they controlled the player with small cues such as lighting the choices in blue and red try to make players second guess themselves. Also trying to totally write off the destroy ending as well. Totally awesome

Even if that's the case, and that's what happens, no matter what happens to Shepard at the end, don't the players who invested 3 games in the series deserve to see the actual outcome of their actions and the actual effect that Shepard's choice makes on the universe and not just his indoctrinated fever dream? Good or bad outcome, the game needed an ending. Not just some random explosions and shit.

Hey, now! They were colored explosions! Player choice in action!

@Hailinel: I guess they would explain it as Shepard thinking that his friends are all right? I guess? I don't know.

Also, in the "Destroy" ending, what did Shepard shoot at that made everything go boom?

I don't remember having to play the multiplayer to get the "best" ending. My bar was filled before I did the last couple of missions maybe even before that. I didn't mess with the multiplayer until I was going for the defender acheivement.

You don't remember having to, but if you want the best one you MUST play multiplayer. And in the best ending you

And as I said, you need 100% Galactic Readiness and a minimum of 5000 points. This is a documented fact. They blatantly lied about being able to get the best ending without having to play multiplayer just as they blatantly lied about From Ashes being developed when the game went into certification (all assets are on the disc and you can unlock it on the PC by altering a .ini file, that's it). They did a massive amount of shady shit with ME3, and I'm not happy to see BioWare getting all the flak for it since it's clearly EA exploiting them, the franchise, and the gamers. Yet again. Them asking for feedback on twitter is nothing more than a ploy to placate people giving them false hope.

Well I love me some being placated, and I can only hope that somebody over there is noticing the sheer volume of feedback coming in dwarfs any of their other clusterfucks to date.

@Hailinel: Simple. Harbinger trying to make Shepard feel like everything was wrapped up, so he doesn't need to keep fighting and gives in to the Indoctrination.

@AiurFlux said:

@DeShawn2ks said:

I don't remember having to play the multiplayer to get the "best" ending. My bar was filled before I did the last couple of missions maybe even before that. I didn't mess with the multiplayer until I was going for the defender acheivement.

You don't remember having to, but if you want the best one you MUST play multiplayer. And in the best ending you

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

destroy synthetic life, Earth doesn't all go to shit, and Shepard apparently lives because it closes in on someone wearing burnt N7 armour taking a deep breath in.

And as I said, you need 100% Galactic Readiness and a minimum of 5000 points. This is a documented fact. They blatantly lied about being able to get the best ending without having to play multiplayer just as they blatantly lied about From Ashes being developed when the game went into certification (all assets are on the disc and you can unlock it on the PC by altering a .ini file, that's it). They did a massive amount of shady shit with ME3, and I'm not happy to see BioWare getting all the flak for it since it's clearly EA exploiting them, the franchise, and the gamers. Yet again. Them asking for feedback on twitter is nothing more than a ploy to placate people giving them false hope.

That is the ending I got with Shepard taking a breath. If that is the case maybe I did play some multiplayer before actually beating the game.

@Pinworm45 said:

@Hailinel: Simple. Harbinger trying to make Shepard feel like everything was wrapped up, so he doesn't need to keep fighting and gives in to the Indoctrination.

By making him see that his friends are about to, at best, crash land on a forsaken jungle planet?

@Hailinel said:

@Pinworm45 said:

@Hailinel: Simple. Harbinger trying to make Shepard feel like everything was wrapped up, so he doesn't need to keep fighting and gives in to the Indoctrination.

By making him see that his friends are about to, at best, crash land on a forsaken jungle planet?

That they lived, and escaped danger. Or maybe it was just in his mind for no particular reason, same with dreams. He just thought of them and how his actions saved them.

Fuck if I know, it's hard to tell what they actually intended with all the shit that happened due to the poor writing.

My theory is that they were so close to the game that they couldn't see how bad it was, and this bolsters it.

@Liquidus said:

@Wrighteous86 said:

@Sackmanjones said:

@AdMordem

@benjaebe:

Finishing last night, my own conclusions, and the conspiracy theories on the net kind of point at

The spacekid is Harbringer trying to indoctrinate you - so many hints for this. Anderson doesn't see the kid in the vent, no-one reacts or even notices the kid when they are getting on the shuttle shortly after. The dreams point at his subconcious warning him that the kid is a danger to him. If you read the entries on indoctrination, several of the things come up - Vega asking about a humming noise for example. The end from the point where Harbringer lasers you is probably all false and occuring in your mind, with Harbringer using your memories to finish the indoctrination. There is no way Anderson followed you up, but he does. He suggests everything to you, sheppard doesnt question or argue - not normal. He beats you to the catalyst, despite being behind you, and despite there only being one way on to the platform. The gun you have hear has endless bullets and is probably not real. Sheppard doesn't question the kid at all, who is against killing the reapers. The kid contradicts himself several times. It is believed the choice he gives you is the choice of indoctrination - both options besides destroy change your eyes to the indoctrinated colour in the cutscene after. If you destroy with enough EMS, you get a cutscene of Sheppard waking up on the broken concrete of London and not on material that would come from the citadel. I think Bioware have pulled off the best ending to any video game ever... by tricking us with a fake one that ties into the fiction amazingly well!

For the mos part this is how I saw it. Sure there is no true confirmation on it but I truly think Shepard was being controlled by the very end. The most brilliant part is not only did they control Shepard but they controlled the player with small cues such as lighting the choices in blue and red try to make players second guess themselves. Also trying to totally write off the destroy ending as well. Totally awesome

Even if that's the case, and that's what happens, no matter what happens to Shepard at the end, don't the players who invested 3 games in the series deserve to see the actual outcome of their actions and the actual effect that Shepard's choice makes on the universe and not just his indoctrinated fever dream? Good or bad outcome, the game needed an ending. Not just some random explosions and shit.

Hey, now! They were colored explosions! Player choice in action!

My assumption was that we would see a real conclusion as dlc shortly. I wouldn't be surprised if this was used as a launching point to tie in the next central playable character (Shepard's replacement). The dlc needs to be free for this to be as awesome as I think it is, which answers your concern there Sackman: if it is provided as free dlc after, then it is fine not including it in the release version to keep the illusion going. Brilliant way of getting the player to actually experience being tricked. Bioware have confirmed something big for the end of this month, lets hope its the real ending with 10 huge variants, a final boss fight, and a hint of a larger threat (to keep the series going).

To whoever said this doesn't explain the ship flying off and the crew crash landing on jungle planet, that is clearly part of the dream. For both me and a mate, one of the characters that were with us on the final mission where magically back on the ship again for that scene. Either a massive continuity error (of which Bioware have a pretty good history of not screwing up that big), or it was part of the dream. As I said earlier, I don't believe anything from the point where he gets shot by Harbringer is actually happening. Including the 3 variants of cutscene at the end. The 2 exceptions are the scene of Shepard on the concrete rubble, which I believe is a clue/reward for making the right choice and saying 'No' to indoctrination, and the old story telling guy at the end, who confirms there is more Shepard story, and may be a launching point for continuation of the franchise.

There are a couple other things that stand out to me that the story is not complete. Bioware and Mass Effect like to stick to a formula. There was no final boss fight. There was no significant impact of choices.

There is also nowhere for the story/franchise/ip to go if the ending is real. It kind of kills the story - no mass relays mean everyone is pretty much stuck where they are, there is no bigger threats, and even making a new threat is going to pale in comparison to the Reapers, and too sloppy for Bioware. In fact this makes no sense for EA or Bioware, as the Mass Effect IP is now worth bloody tons. EA would release a new ME every year if they could. Bioware would not want to kill their franchise.. this isn't a licensed franchise - its their own IP!

Anyway, I am pretty certain now that I am right to some extent. The end of the month and Bioware's announcement should show me exactly how right.

@Wrighteous86 said:

@Sackmanjones said:

@AdMordem

@benjaebe:

Finishing last night, my own conclusions, and the conspiracy theories on the net kind of point at

The spacekid is Harbringer trying to indoctrinate you - so many hints for this. Anderson doesn't see the kid in the vent, no-one reacts or even notices the kid when they are getting on the shuttle shortly after. The dreams point at his subconcious warning him that the kid is a danger to him. If you read the entries on indoctrination, several of the things come up - Vega asking about a humming noise for example. The end from the point where Harbringer lasers you is probably all false and occuring in your mind, with Harbringer using your memories to finish the indoctrination. There is no way Anderson followed you up, but he does. He suggests everything to you, sheppard doesnt question or argue - not normal. He beats you to the catalyst, despite being behind you, and despite there only being one way on to the platform. The gun you have hear has endless bullets and is probably not real. Sheppard doesn't question the kid at all, who is against killing the reapers. The kid contradicts himself several times. It is believed the choice he gives you is the choice of indoctrination - both options besides destroy change your eyes to the indoctrinated colour in the cutscene after. If you destroy with enough EMS, you get a cutscene of Sheppard waking up on the broken concrete of London and not on material that would come from the citadel. I think Bioware have pulled off the best ending to any video game ever... by tricking us with a fake one that ties into the fiction amazingly well!

For the mos part this is how I saw it. Sure there is no true confirmation on it but I truly think Shepard was being controlled by the very end. The most brilliant part is not only did they control Shepard but they controlled the player with small cues such as lighting the choices in blue and red try to make players second guess themselves. Also trying to totally write off the destroy ending as well. Totally awesome

Even if that's the case, and that's what happens, no matter what happens to Shepard at the end, don't the players who invested 3 games in the series deserve to see the actual outcome of their actions and the actual effect that Shepard's choice makes on the universe and not just his indoctrinated fever dream? Good or bad outcome, the game needed an ending. Not just some random explosions and shit.

Hey, now! They were colored explosions! Player choice in action!

Hmmm.

An interesting tweet was just posted over on the Mass Effect PR board as part of this fan outreach/feedback collection.

So at least for now, BioWare's official frontfacing Mass Effect account is claiming they were and are aware of how desperate a situation the end of the game now only establishes for earth, but the whole Galaxy.

"Galaxy in shambles" indeed.

Bioware is currently taking feedback on ME3 at the official Mass Effect twitter account. So I guess if you want to get your voice heard now's a good chance.

https://twitter.com/#!/masseffect

Please read the following posts, before you make any claims against the Indoctrination Theory:

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

http://www.giantbomb.com/mass-effect-3/61-29935/the-truth-behind-mass-effect-3s-ending/35-539308/

The proof is there, READ CAREFULLY!! Everything is explained. And don't give me the "Well if this was the ending, then it is still bs!" crap. Decisions that you made had many effects throughout the whole campaign in ME3, the intention was most likely to have greater effects during midgame, and not the ending. And even still, future DLC might even continue where it left off, in some way, shape, or form (hopefully free).

Also read this post, which explains the probabilities that Bioware made a risky/bold choice in having this kind of deep and complicated ending, considering the enormous amount of evidence. When you think about, it may not be the best profitable move to take, but maybe Bioware wanted to get you (the player) to experience Indoctrination, in the most realistic form possible.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/single/?p=8012868&t=7688087