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Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair Review

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A sequel that's just as crazy and ridiculous and fun as its predecessor, even if it suffers from many of the same faults.

If you're surprised to already see a review of Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair, you're not experiencing amnesia. Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc was released on Vita earlier this year! Thanks to the extended time it took for these twisted visual novels to come here--they hit PSP in Japan years ago--we're getting them practically back-to-back. It's not a moment too soon, either, given how Danganronpa left us hanging. Danganronpa proved one of the most surreal experiences I've had with a game all year, even if Danganronpa was never able to justify the tacked-on interactive elements meant to make it feel more game-y. Danganraonpa 2 valiantly tries to double down on this idea, but ultimately ends up making the game even less fun to play over time. You're here for the crazy story, which remains the series' strength, and if the shocked reactions to the game's story have you interested, it's a good place to start.

Chiaki is the Ultimate Gamer, and has some of the game's best (and meta) lines.
Chiaki is the Ultimate Gamer, and has some of the game's best (and meta) lines.

If you're unfamiliar with Danganronpa's premise...well, try to stay with me here. There will be some mild Danganronpa spoilers, but I'm not going to ruin very much. Hope's Peak Academy is a school where the best of the best go to perfect their individual craft. In this world, they're labeled "ultimates," which reflects their particular skill. This can range from Ultimate Pop Sensation to Ultimate Programmer to Ultimate Bike Gang Leader. It's an, uh, eclectic bunch. The school itself is dedicated to studying the nature of talent, explaining its recruiting process. When the students arrive, however, they're immediately knocked unconscious, and wake up in a tattered version of Hope's Peak Academy. Not only are they locked in, but a robotic, sarcastic bear named Monokuma says there are two options. One, the students can live out the rest of their lives in relative peace but never leave. Two, the students can kill one another, and if the murderer gets away with his or her crime, they'll be able to leave, but everyone else dies. You can imagine where it goes from there. In the sequel, it's the same premise, but it takes places on a tropical island. Players are cast into the role of Hajime Hinata, a student who doesn't remember his talent.

At the end of Danganronpa, a few students leave the school. It's not clear what happened to them, and Danganronpa 2 immediately starts playing with this idea, since Danganronpa players will immediately recognize a physically larger version of a returning character. What's he doing here? How come this killing game is playing out a second time? These questions are at the core of Danganronpa 2, and while playing the original will make everything that happens (especially towards the end) more satisfying, the vast majority of the game is playable for anyone who wants to dive into this bizarre series with the sequel.

The game itself is split into three distinct phases of gameplay: free time, investigation, class trial. During free time, players talk with the other students and learn about their backstories. It's a completely optional part of the game, but one that's recommended, as it allows players to discover the motivations behind their favorite characters. Plus, the writing is really goddamn funny, and the more chances to experience the tremendously witty dialogue, the better. Investigation is triggered upon the discovery of a murdered student, and has players exploring and analyzing crime scenes to come up with scraps of evidence for the coming trial. The evidence is written in your handbook as "truth bullets" because you, er, "fire" them at logical contradictions raised during the class trial. I don't care what anyone says, truth bullets is a rad term.

Class trials are a timed affair, which means players are rushed, even if there's no real consequence for failing.
Class trials are a timed affair, which means players are rushed, even if there's no real consequence for failing.

The class trial is where players become the most active, and it's where the series continues to falter relative to other detective games. In a nutshell, players apply evidence gathered during the investigation to figure out the truth. This comes in a variety of forms, but the most common is a conversation between the students in which the game assigns you a stack of evidence to contradict or confirm what's being said. Text scrolls across the screen, and certain words are highlighted while the conversation moves forward. It eventually loops. Everything is timed, though failure means little outside of a grading reduction. You can try over and over again. This starts out straightforward enough, but as the game goes on, the designers figured the best way to elevate the difficulty was to make the text extremely hard to read. It'll shake around, it'll be surrounded by other text. It's frustrating. Not helping matters is one-too-many contradictions that can't reasonably be figured out except through sheer trial-and-error. Danganronpa's interface makes it extremely difficult to consider all your evidence at once, which quickly leads to exasperated guessing.

Despite how messy and confusing the conversations get, they're the best part, and it's satisfying when you nail someone who's got it all wrong. The game will occasionally mix things up with mini-games, including a version of hangman and infuriating takes on a rhythm and platform games. As Danganronpa 2 passed the 20-hour mark, its answers just within reach, I began loudly cursing a game about deduction that was asking me to deal with yet another platforming sequence with seemingly no collision detection whatsoever.

Honestly, I started referencing a walkthrough a handful of times towards the end. I was here for the story, and only the story. There's an option to ratchet down the difficulty of the class trial, and I recommend it. It's too bad, as the most enjoyable twists come during the class trial portion. True motivations are revealed, and the tricky ways various characters pulled off the ambitious murders are part of the fun. As fun as a cartoonish game about a robotic bear forcing kids to murder each other is fun, anyway. Don't judge me!

...yeah.
...yeah.

There are other questionable elements from the original that stick around, too. For a game that otherwise does such a fantastic job of representing a wide variety of personalities and genders in its cast, it regularly goes out of its way to objectify the women under the joking guise of fan service. Akane, the Ultimate Gymnast, regularly busts out of her shirt when angry...for no reason. Compared to the original, what's different here is how it tries to justify these moments by pointing them out. Just because the game is aware of what's happening doesn't make it okay, though maybe it suggests a localization team aware of the issues. It's particularly egregious for one character who constantly finds herself tripping into the most exploitative positions, and the game laughingly pointing it out. The game tries to layer another set of justifications during the class trial, leveraging it as a piece of evidence, but it was no less ridiculous. It adds nothing.

Danganronpa 2 manages to match the madness of the previous game. In many ways, it purposely ups the ante, giving players plenty of reason to re-read old dialogue and consider previous situations in a new light. In the final hours, there are plenty of head-slapping a-ha moments that make the slightly too lengthy and murderous journey worth the ride. This is a series that takes joy in tricking the player, and not necessarily by laying out evidence along the way. The twists in Danganronpa are often out of left field, and so long as you're okay with the game constantly pulling out rugs, you're in for a good time.

Whether that madness is ultimately satisfying is another question. So much of Dangranonpa 2 is an immediate, purposeful retread in both mechanics and storytelling. That loses its charm after a while, especially when the credits begin rolling, and it becomes clear not much has ultimately advanced after the events of the original game. A similar problem plagued the equally-out-there Zero Escape series also produced by Chunsoft. This is a fun sequel spinning its wheels, capitalizing on what worked well before without real progress towards an endgame. Like most sequels, that works once, but it won't a third time.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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DevourerOfTime

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Joe423

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I enjoyed this more than the first - I liked the characters more and thought that the murders and investigations were much more interesting - Ch.2, 4 and 5 in particular I thought were fantastic. It's just a shame that some of the actual trial gameplay is bad - hangman's gambit still sucks, logic dive seems unnecessary and I absolutely hated the one vs one bits where you need to slash the other characters words. It'd honestly be a lot better if they just kept it down to shooting contradictions and the rhythm game battles - both of which are actually fun. I still had a blast for the most part with it.

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Naoiko

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These games are...something else. Not sure what that something is though. Great article though!

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Petiew

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I definitely agree that the gamey parts of Danganronpa are the worst parts. I ended up turning the difficulty down as well, since I was only really interested in the story. Shooting white noise down or having to swipe the touch screen more wasn't my idea of fun. I played the original through on the hardest difficulty after hearing it was a cakewalk otherwise, but I didn't gain anything other than frustration from doing that.

I did find the stuff with Mikan over the top and worthy of a few eye rolls, but I never really had a problem with Akane, other than her being a useless character. If we're going to complain about that I think Nekomaru's bulge is the biggest offender.

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Dallas_Raines

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Edited By Dallas_Raines

I usually get a quarter of the way through a Japanese adventure game/VN before I start using an FAQ to wade through all the 'gameplay' .(Especially true of the Zero Escape games)

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patrickklepek

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Edited By patrickklepek

@petiew said:

I definitely agree that the gamey parts of Danganronpa are the worst parts. I ended up turning the difficulty down as well, since I was only really interested in the story. Shooting white noise down or having to swipe the touch screen more wasn't my idea of fun. I played the original through on the hardest difficulty after hearing it was a cakewalk otherwise, but I didn't gain anything other than frustration from doing that.

I did find the stuff with Mikan over the top and worthy of a few eye rolls, but I never really had a problem with Akane, other than her being a useless character. If we're going to complain about that I think Nekomaru's bulge is the biggest offender.

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darkjester74

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I agree that the gameplay bits are probably the worst parts of this series. However, you really don't come to this game for that, you come to it for story and characters, which this game has in spades.

I agree the fan servicey bits were tacky and in poor taste. The good news is that there aren't all that many instances of it.

Overall I found both titles very enjoyable and I recommend them wholeheartedly! They both have gripping story lines that will keep you guessing til the very end! :)

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Bocam

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@patrickklepek: Just like to point out that the game pointing out fanservice moments was in the original Japanese version. The writer even comments in one of the design books that the only reason he put them in there was for marketing.

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patrickklepek

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Edited By patrickklepek

@banzaibandito said:

"Just because the game is aware of what's happening doesn't make it okay."

It actually is okay. It might be offensive, but it is most definitely okay. They get to put whatever they want in their game. We can laugh, or eye roll, or click our tongue in response, but at the end of the day, the creator gets to decide what is okay to include in their creation, not us. That kind of thinking is ruinous for creative freedom.

Hi! Thanks for taking the time to read my review. You have lots of things you could be doing with your day, but you spent it reading my thoughts on a relatively obscure visual novel. That's awesome.

Here's what your takeaway from this section of that review should be. I'm not saying the Danganronpa series should remove fan service from future installments, should Chunsoft choose to make them (which I hope happens--I want an ending!!). It's absolutely the artist's right to include whatever they want for whatever reason they want. As a critic, it's my right to criticize what they include. Criticism does not mean censorship, it's merely an analytical reaction to what's created by the artist.

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scarycrayons

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Edited By scarycrayons

"Just because the game is aware of what's happening doesn't make it okay."

It actually is okay. It might be offensive, but it is most definitely okay. They get to put whatever they want in their game. We can laugh, or eye roll, or click our tongue in response, but at the end of the day, the creator gets to decide what is okay to include in their creation, not us. That kind of thinking is ruinous for creative freedom.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

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JohnTunoku

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@bocam: Yup. The sad truth is that's the reality of the anime/VN market right now. I wonder if the lack of it in the VLR was part of the reason it failed to sell enough copies in Japan to fund the third entry. Then again Danganonpa 1 had only 2 frames of fanservice(one of which was a secret unlockable) and it still sold gangbusters. I totally understand the pressure to include it for that reason though.

As for the review, they definitely amped up the difficulty a bit but I didn't mind so much. Since I found the first one was overly simple even on the highest difficulty. The only new minigame that I truly hated was the New Hangman, nothing about the way they set it up is good. Found the rest pretty fun but generally agree with the assessment that the traditional conversation minigames are the strongest part of the trial sections.

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BlackLagoon

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Edited By BlackLagoon

Martial artists ripping their clothes when they power up is a decades old anime/manga trope. As for the difficulty, I found concentration mode invaluable and using hope fragments to buy skills from Monomi a great help. I'm not that great of a gamer, but for the most part the "normal" difficulty didn't give me too much trouble.

EDIT: Also Patrick, not that it's a big thing, but Danganronpa actually comes from the Spike side of Spike Chunsoft.

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patrickklepek

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@bocam said:

@patrickklepek: Just like to point out that the game pointing out fanservice moments was in the original Japanese version. The writer even comments in one of the design books that the only reason he put them in there was for marketing.

Huh. Interesting. There's a Gamasutra postmortem that helps explain why the gameplay is wonky:

YT: It was originally a basic visual novel, but visual novel games are not that popular in Japan anymore, either. So we figured that if Dangan Ronpa were to be just a visual novel, it would not be as popular we wanted it to be, these days. So that's why, in order to show that the game is really interesting, we decided to add a lot of different features -- after the scenario was written.

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musubi

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@banzaibandito said:

"Just because the game is aware of what's happening doesn't make it okay."

It actually is okay. It might be offensive, but it is most definitely okay. They get to put whatever they want in their game. We can laugh, or eye roll, or click our tongue in response, but at the end of the day, the creator gets to decide what is okay to include in their creation, not us. That kind of thinking is ruinous for creative freedom.

Hi! Thanks for taking the time to read my review. You have lots of things you could be doing with your day, but you spent it reading my thoughts on a relatively obscure visual novel. That's awesome.

Here's what your takeaway from this section of that review should be. I'm not saying the Danganronpa series should remove fan service from future installments, should Chunsoft choose to make them (which I hope happens--I want an ending!!). It's absolutely the artist's right to include whatever they want for whatever reason they want. As a critic, it's my right to criticize what they include. Criticism does not mean censorship, it's merely an analytical reaction to what's created by the artist.

I think what people may be taking issue with isn't so much your take of it but how you state your opinion. It does read at least to me as a very matter of fact analysis of that material. Which,whatever,its your opinion but if you're wondering why people take issue with your criticism sometimes its not often the content of the criticism but the presentation of the criticism. I think there could have been other approaches to levying the same criticisms without it sounding like that.

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I_Stay_Puft

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Patrick you should go watch the Danganronpa anime series and become

one of us...

one of us...

one of us...

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"It's particularly egregious for one character who constantly finds herself tripping into the most exploitative positions, and the game laughingly pointing it out."

I'm not sure if twice is constantly.

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DevourerOfTime

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Patrick you should go watch the Danganronpa anime series and become

one of us...

one of us...

one of us...

No. No one should watch that anime series.

It was terrible.

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07ron

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Thanks for the review, Patrick. Great to have some more info on a series I've been wanting to play.

As for the review content, as Patrick stated, it's his prerogative to criticise whatever he deems worth criticising. No one wants bland reviews that come at the expense of muting Patrick's (or any reviewers) own distinctive voice. If the creator reads the review they can gain valuable feedback on their decisions or ignore it. It is certainly not ruinous to creative expression as suggested.

In that vein, it's your choice to either agree with Patrick's sentiments or not. That's what makes for diverse and interesting conversations. Write on!

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meh, i see what your saying on the fanservice moments, im off 2 minds on it,

the "Pro-Creator" mindset, if its what the creators want to put in the game, let them put it regardless of how problematic it is (and yes, obviously doesnt immune them from criticism)

but having said that, having something like that picture you posted pop up during gameplay.....i wouldn't really want to be caught in public playing that game with something like that going on,

but at the end of the day, what matters to me is that the story in this series seems really interesting. but games are starting to flow back in. so ill wait for a black friday sale on the 2 games.

good review though patrick, thought it was very evenly-balanced.

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@terjay said:

"It's particularly egregious for one character who constantly finds herself tripping into the most exploitative positions, and the game laughingly pointing it out."

I'm not sure if twice is constantly.

She only trips twice, sure, but there's more than that. Especially concerning beds...

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DevourerOfTime

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On fanservice:

Fanservice sucks. It drags this game down and makes other games that feature it almost unanimously worse. It's meaningless pandering that is embarrassing to the player and destroys well-written characters at best and alienating to the audience and just overall harmful at worst.

Creators are free to include them, sure. But, as a game developer myself, I know I'm allowed to put whatever the hell terrible game mechanics, bad graphics, or bad writing I want into the game. I could go on a 12 hour tangent that has nothing to do with the rest of the game or introduce a mechanic that makes the entire game frustratingly difficult. I'm free to do any of that.

But saying that I have the ability or right to include those elements in my game doesn't excuse them. They're bad parts of the game. They make the game worse. They should be called out as such.

EDIT: I do think it's incredibly clever to use a fanservice moment as a crucial part of evidence (it makes a lot of sense in context). I really enjoyed the handful of parts they used that. But it's a positive spin on a negative element. And it's the only a few piece out of dozens in the game that make sense.

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Oh god, here we go with the "creators can do whatever they want" defense. Patrick's job is to criticize. Critiquing art is not the same thing as saying "this art should not be made." It's insane to me that this conversation needs to keep happening.

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Jumbs

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@milkman said:

Oh god, here we go with the "creators can do whatever they want" defense. Patrick's job is to criticize. Critiquing art is not the same thing as saying "this art should not be made." It's insane to me that this conversation needs to keep happening.

They're probably the same people who unironically think gamergate is a "movement" and worthy of anyone's time.

Patrick, and anyone for that matter, is free to criticise the content of the game for any reason they see fit. No one is screaming "BAN THIS GAME!!!" or "DO NOT BUY IT BECAUSE IT TREATS WOMEN SHITTILY!!", it's saying "This is gross. Why are video games like this? Why is it constantly being marketed towards horny males?"

I've come to the conclusion that anyone that starts the argument "But the CREATOR is free to do whatever they want!" can safely be ignored. I think I'm going to start calling them creationists.

Good review Patrick, it's pretty much exactly how I felt about the game. 999 is the closest I've experienced to a perfect visual novel, and these devs have it in their power to make it a fun game to play AND a cool story.

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simguard

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@demoskinos:

I'm confused by your objection to the way he stated his opinion. He simply mentioned what some examples were, how he felt they didn't add to the experience for him, and that he felt the game would be better off without them. This seems like a totally reasonable way to approach his critique.

I do find it interesting what @bocam said about the author stating that he felt he had to put the fanservice moments in for marketing purposes. I would be interested to read whatever article or interview that came from. This seems like a greater impediment to creative freedom than a writer expresses some issues he had with certain parts of the game in his critique.

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DevourerOfTime

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@jumbs said:

@milkman said:

Oh god, here we go with the "creators can do whatever they want" defense. Patrick's job is to criticize. Critiquing art is not the same thing as saying "this art should not be made." It's insane to me that this conversation needs to keep happening.

They're probably the same people who unironically think gamergate is a "movement" and worthy of anyone's time.

Patrick, and anyone for that matter, is free to criticise the content of the game for any reason they see fit. No one is screaming "BAN THIS GAME!!!" or "DO NOT BUY IT BECAUSE IT TREATS WOMEN SHITTILY!!", it's saying "This is gross. Why are video games like this? Why is it constantly being marketed towards horny males?"

I've come to the conclusion that anyone that starts the argument "But the CREATOR is free to do whatever they want!" can safely be ignored. I think I'm going to start calling them creationists.

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Memu

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I am a big fan of Patrick and I am also a big fan of fan service in anime. I love High School of the Dead for example. This stuff in Danganronpa that Patrick takes offense at didn't even register with me.

I also think many guys pretend they are offended because that seems "right", but secretly enjoy the animated panty shot or breast jiggle. Or they are afraid to be labeled as otaku or pervert by their friends/peers.

If I were the type to take offense at anything I would take more offense at some of the things I have heard said on the bombcast than at any "inappropriate" camera angle in a cartoon. Holier-than-thou just doesn't cut it with me.

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musubi

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On fanservice:

Fanservice sucks. It drags this game down and makes other games that feature it almost unanimously worse. It's meaningless pandering that is embarrassing to the player and destroys well-written characters at best and alienating to the audience and just overall harmful at worst.

Creators are free to include them, sure. But, as a game developer myself, I know I'm allowed to put whatever the hell terrible game mechanics, bad graphics, or bad writing I want into the game. I could go on a 12 hour tangent that has nothing to do with the rest of the game or introduce a mechanic that makes the entire game frustratingly difficult. I'm free to do any of that.

But saying that I have the ability or right to include those elements in my game doesn't excuse them. They're bad parts of the game. They make the game worse. They should be called out as such.

I do not see how they objectively make a game "worse" being embarrassed by this stuff is a person by person basis. And I've watched a lot of anime with very heavy fanservice that despite that have very well written characters. Writing something off as "bad" because it likes to sexually pander to the audience a bit is horribly dismissive and pre-judging something before you even experience what it is.

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nycnewyork

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@devoureroftime said:

On fanservice:

Fanservice sucks. It drags this game down and makes other games that feature it almost unanimously worse. It's meaningless pandering that is embarrassing to the player and destroys well-written characters at best and alienating to the audience and just overall harmful at worst.

Creators are free to include them, sure. But, as a game developer myself, I know I'm allowed to put whatever the hell terrible game mechanics, bad graphics, or bad writing I want into the game. I could go on a 12 hour tangent that has nothing to do with the rest of the game or introduce a mechanic that makes the entire game frustratingly difficult. I'm free to do any of that.

But saying that I have the ability or right to include those elements in my game doesn't excuse them. They're bad parts of the game. They make the game worse. They should be called out as such.

I do not see how they objectively make a game "worse" being embarrassed by this stuff is a person by person basis. And I've watched a lot of anime with very heavy fanservice that despite that have very well written characters. Writing something off as "bad" because it likes to sexually pander to the audience a bit is horribly dismissive and pre-judging something before you even experience what it is.

the other part of this that is being ignores is that fan service is culturally accepted in japan. if you do not like fan service, do not play/watch stuff from japan for the most part.

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Bocam

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@simguard: I'm not sure if it was ever translated but I'll look for it

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@memu said:

I am a big fan of Patrick and I am also a big fan of fan service in anime. I love High School of the Dead for example. This stuff in Danganronpa that Patrick takes offense at didn't even register with me.

I also think many guys pretend they are offended because that seems "right", but secretly enjoy the animated panty shot or breast jiggle. Or they are afraid to be labeled as otaku or pervert by their friends/peers.

If I were the type to take offense at anything I would take more offense at some of the things I have heard said on the bombcast than at any "inappropriate" camera angle in a cartoon. Holier-than-thou just doesn't cut it with me.

Who said anything about offense? You can find something gross, needless and inappropriate without being offended, champ

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courage_wolf

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On fanservice:

Fanservice sucks. It drags this game down and makes other games that feature it almost unanimously worse. It's meaningless pandering that is embarrassing to the player and destroys well-written characters at best and alienating to the audience and just overall harmful at worst.

Creators are free to include them, sure. But, as a game developer myself, I know I'm allowed to put whatever the hell terrible game mechanics, bad graphics, or bad writing I want into the game. I could go on a 12 hour tangent that has nothing to do with the rest of the game or introduce a mechanic that makes the entire game frustratingly difficult. I'm free to do any of that.

But saying that I have the ability or right to include those elements in my game doesn't excuse them. They're bad parts of the game. They make the game worse. They should be called out as such.

EDIT: I do think it's incredibly clever to use a fanservice moment as a crucial part of evidence (it makes a lot of sense in context). I really enjoyed the handful of parts they used that. But it's a positive spin on a negative element. And it's the only a few piece out of dozens in the game that make sense.

I disagree with you premise that fanservice sucks. Fanservice can be used to great effect when employed appropriately. I'm pressed for time but I will give 2 quick examples.

1. Sword Art Online 16.5, the author basically wrote fanfiction for his own story and did it in a very tongue in cheek manner. Throughout the series he played up the sexual tension between the 2 main characters and eventually turned it into a nice love story, but then he went back and said "No guys, they totally fucked" and then made an extremely over the top sex scene for them. The author obviously didn't take his story too seriously and many fans, myself included, found it hilarious that he wrote it.

2. Kill la Kill, the plot literally runs on fan service and turns out to be quite amazing. Many found the fanservice offputting, but many other viewers say they stopped noticing it after a couple of episodes. Kill la Kill uses its fanservice to parody the magical girl genre and even though it is an incredibly over the top anime it manages to have better developed characters then a lot of the more straight forward shows that it is mocking and includes good story reasons for all the fanservice. Plus the fanservice is shared equally between both genders.

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deactivated-5b047a335a3c2

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The "new-and-improved" hangman's gambit is so terrible. Definitely my least favorite addition to the game. I enjoyed the crazy story though.

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@demoskinos: Who said anything about objectively? It's just one person's opinion. It may bother some people, for others, like you, it might be fine. All good!

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JohnTunoku

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Well this comment section turned into a shit show fast. Had a good start though!

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Edited By patrickklepek

@demoskinos said:

I think what people may be taking issue with isn't so much your take of it but how you state your opinion. It does read at least to me as a very matter of fact analysis of that material. Which,whatever,its your opinion but if you're wondering why people take issue with your criticism sometimes its not often the content of the criticism but the presentation of the criticism. I think there could have been other approaches to levying the same criticisms without it sounding like that.

I don't follow this line of criticism. It's a review, it's my opinion. How else would you want it stated? Essentially, you want me to excuse what the game does while also criticizing it, which wouldn't make any sense. It's not how I feel. You're free and okay to be just fine with what Danganronpa does with its characters, but I don't have to be okay with it. That's called polite disagreement! I'm all for that, man!

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LiK

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Fair review, Patrick. I agree with your points but I'd give it 5 stars. :p

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DevourerOfTime

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@memu said:

I am a big fan of Patrick and I am also a big fan of fan service in anime. I love High School of the Dead for example. This stuff in Danganronpa that Patrick takes offense at didn't even register with me.

I also think many guys pretend they are offended because that seems "right", but secretly enjoy the animated panty shot or breast jiggle. Or they are afraid to be labeled as otaku or pervert by their friends/peers.

That's not it at fucking all. No one is doing this to make themselves look better or because they are hiding that they secretly like it. You want me to talk about sex, I'll talk about some fucking sex. I am not the least bit shy about my sexual quriks and what I get excited about.

But that doesn't mean I'm oblivious to my surroundings and social norms. Just because I like something sexual, doesn't mean I'm going to bring it up in casual conversation or consume it in public or, especially, talk about it on this website. Nor do I want that material crammed down my throat (sorry, I literally could not think of a better metaphor that didn't have connotations) in any and every material I consume.

Even if I found the fanservice moments in Danganronpa enjoyable, I wouldn't want them in the game. It prevents me from recommending it. It makes the game harder to consume for others that the fanservice is not directed towards or who do not enjoy that material. It makes the game harder to consume in public because I have basic empathy for the people around me. It makes a game that many people would enjoy into a game that only those who enjoy the material can enjoy (and, even by your own admission, enjoy barely more than the base game) or those who can either stomach it or ignore it can enjoy.

If this was a game that had the fanservice elements as a central element to it, go ahead. Akiba's Trip, for example, is a game where you cannot separate the fan service from the game itself. It's integrated into the very fabric of that game. So if you're into that sort of thing, then fantastic. That's a game for you.

But a super neat thriller visual novel that plays off of elements from fantastic games like Phoenix Wright and Persona (both of which have their own bad moments of fanservice, by the way)? Yeah, those fanservice elements are not there to make the game better. They're there to sell copies to the people who will buy it purely because some girl is going to show her panties or have an ill-fitting outfit. Which, sure, might sell a few extra copies in Japan (and might even sell a few copies here too), but is most likely gonna prevent me from recommending this to, say, my Phoenix Wright fanatic sister.

I do not see how they objectively make a game "worse" being embarrassed by this stuff is a person by person basis. And I've watched a lot of anime with very heavy fanservice that despite that have very well written characters. Writing something off as "bad" because it likes to sexually pander to the audience a bit is horribly dismissive and pre-judging something before you even experience what it is.

objectively make a game "worse"

objectively

Here's a tip: Anything anyone ever says that isn't the correct answer to a mathematical equation or the like is subjective.

It IS a person-to-person basis on whether they enjoy this stuff. That's the point of my argument. It's something that is okay for those who are fine with it and alienating to who aren't fine with it.


Also, I've played and beaten both Danganronpa games, love them, and will most likely have both on my Game of the Year list. I'm not writing anything off. I'm not saying that games with these elements cannot be great. Even the games that have way worse pandering than this can be incredible games (This excellent opinion piece on Senran Kagura, for example, talks about that)

What I'm saying is that it's an element of a game that is mostly used to sell copies and rarely used in a way to enhance the experience, which is definitely the case here. And it's not just reducing the quality of the experience for a lot of players when its included, but also prevents people from recommending it to other people.

Which is super unfortunate because god-dayum Danganronpa 2 is amazing.

the other part of this that is being ignores is that fan service is culturally accepted in japan. if you do not like fan service, do not play/watch stuff from japan for the most part.

I don't even know where to begin with this one.

Yeah, it's prevalent in Japan. I get it. We all get it. They fucking love the busty schoolgirls and the barely clothed pre-pubescent girls and the gorgeous shirtless guys with sparkles coming off their abs and the etc etc etc.

Doesn't excuse it from criticism. Doesn't mean that it's accepted in every culture or should be accepted in every culture. Doesn't mean it won't alienate a lot of people. Doesn't mean it should just be accepted as something that happens and oh well.

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DuncanKeller

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@nycnewyork said:

@demoskinos said:

@devoureroftime said:

On fanservice:

Fanservice sucks. It drags this game down and makes other games that feature it almost unanimously worse. It's meaningless pandering that is embarrassing to the player and destroys well-written characters at best and alienating to the audience and just overall harmful at worst.

Creators are free to include them, sure. But, as a game developer myself, I know I'm allowed to put whatever the hell terrible game mechanics, bad graphics, or bad writing I want into the game. I could go on a 12 hour tangent that has nothing to do with the rest of the game or introduce a mechanic that makes the entire game frustratingly difficult. I'm free to do any of that.

But saying that I have the ability or right to include those elements in my game doesn't excuse them. They're bad parts of the game. They make the game worse. They should be called out as such.

I do not see how they objectively make a game "worse" being embarrassed by this stuff is a person by person basis. And I've watched a lot of anime with very heavy fanservice that despite that have very well written characters. Writing something off as "bad" because it likes to sexually pander to the audience a bit is horribly dismissive and pre-judging something before you even experience what it is.

the other part of this that is being ignores is that fan service is culturally accepted in japan. if you do not like fan service, do not play/watch stuff from japan for the most part.

That's bogus, though. I like weird Japanese games / movies. Stuff like this turns me off of them completely. I get that some people like it, but I am not those people.

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Bajumeru

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Great review, Patrick. I really enjoyed the second Danganronpa game, way more than the first game. I felt they improved on everything that I liked about the first game (setting, characters, batshit crazy story), while giving more incentive to engage with the gameplay (like introducing a level-up system, which I quite enjoyed). It's weird; the gameplay in itself is mediocre at best, but I still find myself drawn to this game. Now let's just hope they bring over the spin-off game!

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ColonelXanders

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If I were being more charitable, I would argue that some of the fan-service moments are there to serve in a disarming manner. Either in terms of misdirection OR as moments to break up what is otherwise a constantly oppressive mood.

I don't think this game actually hit that. Which is weird because the first game I never felt that way about. Sakura was atypical. Kirigiri was modestly dressed and super cool.

I don't mind fan-service when it is there for the purpose of titillation, but I don't think any of the moments in DR2 are for that purpose either. It feels almost so by-the-numbers when it appears that I don't think they really serve anyone. Like when a hero character falls over and somehow grabs the boob of a female lead. If you're not doing something interesting or exciting with it then what the heck is even the point.

Sonia's swimsuit was pretty great though.

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I think there are good and bad ways to do fan service, and often when it's done well you don't even notice. I mean, fan service is common in most media, it's just anime (and anime inspired media) tends to be worse for blatant "YOU LIKE GIRLS? HERE'S SOME GIRLS!" instead of being a bit more subtle. Although there is definitely a good share of scenes in movies that are just awful and obviously an excuse to throw some fan service of an actress at the audience.

I completely understand the criticism of fan service, but I wonder if we should call it something like "overt fan service" or crappy fan service. Since it's always the really crappy stuff which has people upset, which you know is understandable because it's pretty awful, even within the 'worst genre for it'.

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Edited By Seroth

I disagreed with Patrick's assessment of the "fanservice" moments in Danganronpa 1, but it's clear that the sequel amps it up to a billion, and I also found myself turned off by it. And there's even more in the hidden scenes of the game.

I still enjoyed the game, though, and I eagerly await the localization announcement of Danganronpa: Another Episode, the crazy third person shooter game.

I would love to hear Patrick's thoughts on the more spoilery parts of Danganronpa 2. Is it too much to hope for a spoilercast, or would waiting for such a feature only leave me in despair? :P

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ripelivejam

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I cant hold all these reviews

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@demoskinos said:

I think what people may be taking issue with isn't so much your take of it but how you state your opinion. It does read at least to me as a very matter of fact analysis of that material. Which,whatever,its your opinion but if you're wondering why people take issue with your criticism sometimes its not often the content of the criticism but the presentation of the criticism. I think there could have been other approaches to levying the same criticisms without it sounding like that.

I don't follow this line of criticism. It's a review, it's my opinion. How else would you want it stated? Essentially, you want me to excuse what the game does while also criticizing it, which wouldn't make any sense. It's not how I feel. You're free and okay to be just fine with what Danganronpa does with its characters, but I don't have to be okay with it. That's called polite disagreement! I'm all for that, man!

The "you're stating your opinion as fact!" thing bothers me too. Anyone who says that fails to understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity. You can't state an opinion as fact, because the two are fundamentally different. It's similar to the people who want you to say "in my opinion" before everything you say. It is your opinion, obviously. Who else's would it be!?

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Edited By ShadyPingu

@demoskinos said:

I think what people may be taking issue with isn't so much your take of it but how you state your opinion. It does read at least to me as a very matter of fact analysis of that material. Which,whatever,its your opinion but if you're wondering why people take issue with your criticism sometimes its not often the content of the criticism but the presentation of the criticism. I think there could have been other approaches to levying the same criticisms without it sounding like that.

I don't follow this line of criticism. It's a review, it's my opinion. How else would you want it stated?

Just end every sentence with IMO, Scoops! It's the perfect defense!

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df

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I genuinely enjoy all sorts of fan-service in games/animes, even if just to laugh at the silliness. I have seen enough "embarrassing" plotlines with JRPG/Visual Novel in my lifetime to not feel weird about these sort of things.

Does removing these sort of things make games/anime appeal to wider audience, that's the part I am not certain about: distraction is the best defense to plot holes, instead of unjustified seriousness, I rather have some cheeky moments to turn my mind away from the flaws.

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@patrickklepek said:

@demoskinos said:

I think what people may be taking issue with isn't so much your take of it but how you state your opinion. It does read at least to me as a very matter of fact analysis of that material. Which,whatever,its your opinion but if you're wondering why people take issue with your criticism sometimes its not often the content of the criticism but the presentation of the criticism. I think there could have been other approaches to levying the same criticisms without it sounding like that.

I don't follow this line of criticism. It's a review, it's my opinion. How else would you want it stated?

Just end every sentence with IMO, Scoops! It's the perfect defense, in my opinion!