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Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair Review

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A sequel that's just as crazy and ridiculous and fun as its predecessor, even if it suffers from many of the same faults.

If you're surprised to already see a review of Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair, you're not experiencing amnesia. Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc was released on Vita earlier this year! Thanks to the extended time it took for these twisted visual novels to come here--they hit PSP in Japan years ago--we're getting them practically back-to-back. It's not a moment too soon, either, given how Danganronpa left us hanging. Danganronpa proved one of the most surreal experiences I've had with a game all year, even if Danganronpa was never able to justify the tacked-on interactive elements meant to make it feel more game-y. Danganraonpa 2 valiantly tries to double down on this idea, but ultimately ends up making the game even less fun to play over time. You're here for the crazy story, which remains the series' strength, and if the shocked reactions to the game's story have you interested, it's a good place to start.

Chiaki is the Ultimate Gamer, and has some of the game's best (and meta) lines.
Chiaki is the Ultimate Gamer, and has some of the game's best (and meta) lines.

If you're unfamiliar with Danganronpa's premise...well, try to stay with me here. There will be some mild Danganronpa spoilers, but I'm not going to ruin very much. Hope's Peak Academy is a school where the best of the best go to perfect their individual craft. In this world, they're labeled "ultimates," which reflects their particular skill. This can range from Ultimate Pop Sensation to Ultimate Programmer to Ultimate Bike Gang Leader. It's an, uh, eclectic bunch. The school itself is dedicated to studying the nature of talent, explaining its recruiting process. When the students arrive, however, they're immediately knocked unconscious, and wake up in a tattered version of Hope's Peak Academy. Not only are they locked in, but a robotic, sarcastic bear named Monokuma says there are two options. One, the students can live out the rest of their lives in relative peace but never leave. Two, the students can kill one another, and if the murderer gets away with his or her crime, they'll be able to leave, but everyone else dies. You can imagine where it goes from there. In the sequel, it's the same premise, but it takes places on a tropical island. Players are cast into the role of Hajime Hinata, a student who doesn't remember his talent.

At the end of Danganronpa, a few students leave the school. It's not clear what happened to them, and Danganronpa 2 immediately starts playing with this idea, since Danganronpa players will immediately recognize a physically larger version of a returning character. What's he doing here? How come this killing game is playing out a second time? These questions are at the core of Danganronpa 2, and while playing the original will make everything that happens (especially towards the end) more satisfying, the vast majority of the game is playable for anyone who wants to dive into this bizarre series with the sequel.

The game itself is split into three distinct phases of gameplay: free time, investigation, class trial. During free time, players talk with the other students and learn about their backstories. It's a completely optional part of the game, but one that's recommended, as it allows players to discover the motivations behind their favorite characters. Plus, the writing is really goddamn funny, and the more chances to experience the tremendously witty dialogue, the better. Investigation is triggered upon the discovery of a murdered student, and has players exploring and analyzing crime scenes to come up with scraps of evidence for the coming trial. The evidence is written in your handbook as "truth bullets" because you, er, "fire" them at logical contradictions raised during the class trial. I don't care what anyone says, truth bullets is a rad term.

Class trials are a timed affair, which means players are rushed, even if there's no real consequence for failing.
Class trials are a timed affair, which means players are rushed, even if there's no real consequence for failing.

The class trial is where players become the most active, and it's where the series continues to falter relative to other detective games. In a nutshell, players apply evidence gathered during the investigation to figure out the truth. This comes in a variety of forms, but the most common is a conversation between the students in which the game assigns you a stack of evidence to contradict or confirm what's being said. Text scrolls across the screen, and certain words are highlighted while the conversation moves forward. It eventually loops. Everything is timed, though failure means little outside of a grading reduction. You can try over and over again. This starts out straightforward enough, but as the game goes on, the designers figured the best way to elevate the difficulty was to make the text extremely hard to read. It'll shake around, it'll be surrounded by other text. It's frustrating. Not helping matters is one-too-many contradictions that can't reasonably be figured out except through sheer trial-and-error. Danganronpa's interface makes it extremely difficult to consider all your evidence at once, which quickly leads to exasperated guessing.

Despite how messy and confusing the conversations get, they're the best part, and it's satisfying when you nail someone who's got it all wrong. The game will occasionally mix things up with mini-games, including a version of hangman and infuriating takes on a rhythm and platform games. As Danganronpa 2 passed the 20-hour mark, its answers just within reach, I began loudly cursing a game about deduction that was asking me to deal with yet another platforming sequence with seemingly no collision detection whatsoever.

Honestly, I started referencing a walkthrough a handful of times towards the end. I was here for the story, and only the story. There's an option to ratchet down the difficulty of the class trial, and I recommend it. It's too bad, as the most enjoyable twists come during the class trial portion. True motivations are revealed, and the tricky ways various characters pulled off the ambitious murders are part of the fun. As fun as a cartoonish game about a robotic bear forcing kids to murder each other is fun, anyway. Don't judge me!

...yeah.
...yeah.

There are other questionable elements from the original that stick around, too. For a game that otherwise does such a fantastic job of representing a wide variety of personalities and genders in its cast, it regularly goes out of its way to objectify the women under the joking guise of fan service. Akane, the Ultimate Gymnast, regularly busts out of her shirt when angry...for no reason. Compared to the original, what's different here is how it tries to justify these moments by pointing them out. Just because the game is aware of what's happening doesn't make it okay, though maybe it suggests a localization team aware of the issues. It's particularly egregious for one character who constantly finds herself tripping into the most exploitative positions, and the game laughingly pointing it out. The game tries to layer another set of justifications during the class trial, leveraging it as a piece of evidence, but it was no less ridiculous. It adds nothing.

Danganronpa 2 manages to match the madness of the previous game. In many ways, it purposely ups the ante, giving players plenty of reason to re-read old dialogue and consider previous situations in a new light. In the final hours, there are plenty of head-slapping a-ha moments that make the slightly too lengthy and murderous journey worth the ride. This is a series that takes joy in tricking the player, and not necessarily by laying out evidence along the way. The twists in Danganronpa are often out of left field, and so long as you're okay with the game constantly pulling out rugs, you're in for a good time.

Whether that madness is ultimately satisfying is another question. So much of Dangranonpa 2 is an immediate, purposeful retread in both mechanics and storytelling. That loses its charm after a while, especially when the credits begin rolling, and it becomes clear not much has ultimately advanced after the events of the original game. A similar problem plagued the equally-out-there Zero Escape series also produced by Chunsoft. This is a fun sequel spinning its wheels, capitalizing on what worked well before without real progress towards an endgame. Like most sequels, that works once, but it won't a third time.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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ThunderSlash

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So how about that Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright review eh? EH?!

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DevourerOfTime

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@patrickklepek: About Danganronpa's future...

Well, considering the first new Danganronpa game in two years was Another Episode, a Vita third person shooter set in between the two games, your prediction of "fundamentally changing the gameplay" seems pretty spot on.

Though, hey, there's always that prequel light novel that I've heard nothing but good things about.

@pepsiman said:

I think with both games, but especially the second, there are definitely a lot of little moments that are meant to hearken back to aspects of Japanese game industry history and a lot of it is so very specific and esoteric to stuff that only took place there during the 80s and 90s that it's admittedly easy for parts of the game to lose their context and authorial voice, especially since the writing almost never actually tries to overtly explain these references. (This isn't to say that even all Japanese players get every last single reference those games are making; the fact that 2 actually explains it one major game reference that's necessary to know for plot progression attests to as much.) The fanservice stuff is, in my mind, definitely at the top of the pile. There is a very specific historical context that 2 especially is making fun of by including the moments that it does and the script makes it very apparent in the original Japanese that the major bits of fanservice are meant to be so over the top that it's supposed to be repugnant, but since a lot of the foundational stuff that the fanservice is referencing (very understandably) never got exported outside Japan nor (again, very understandably) would it have likely ever been received well anyway because of differences in approaches on sexuality and eroticism between Japan and Western countries, I think a reaction like Patrick's is pretty natural.

Having just beaten the second game about a week ago, this sounds fascinating to dive into. Do you know of any English resources/websites/articles/etc that go into this in any sort of detail? There seems to be a lot going on in the game that I just do not have the context to understand (hell, I'm even drawing a blank on what game reference you specifically need to know to progress the plot).

Also, great post as always, Pepsiman. Always interesting to read your unique perspective (at least, unique within the giant bomb community), on these sorts of games and circumstances. Thanks for posting.

@pepsiman said:

Oh, speaking of which, @patrickklepek, if you're ever interested in picking Kodaka Kazutaka, the series writer's mind, I know Hiroko at 8-4 is friends with the guy. He seems like a super intelligent guy that's probably aware of criticisms like yours already, but I totally bet you two could have a really interesting conversation about that game's writing that could better inform him about Western sensibilities on some of the things you pointed out. Just a thought. :)

Oh god, I'd love for this interview to happen. Please, let this interview happen.

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DevourerOfTime

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So how about that Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright review eh? EH?!

I don't think anyone on the site has played through either of those series, have they? Maybe a Professor Layton game here or there...I know Patrick has no Phoenix Wright experience, for example...

I guess a review by someone who had played neither series would be kind of interesting?

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cLoudForest

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@demoskinos said:

I honestly, also think it comes down to the fact that its a video game. I mean, lets analyze all of the needless pandering sex on the myriad of HBO and Showtime shows. The only reason this isn't maligned is because for whatever reason many of these shows have permeated the consciousness of the masses and its generally accepted to be a Game of Thrones or Masters of Sex fan. The reactions to stuff in Danganronpa I think come from the social context of "Oh shit, people are going to think I'm weird" If you were to take the general premise of Danganronpa adapt it into a westernized style and leave many of the character tropes of the girls busting out of their shirts ect intact I honestly think it would be accepted on a wider level. Its why 50 shades of grey is so popular. Its a bunch of housewives who really want to be into smut but don't want to be judged for it but since 50 shades of Grey is such a widely accepted "thing" they feel like they aren't being judged as much.

I can't comment on Masters of Sex since I've never seen it, but Game of Thrones has been routinely criticised for the way that it uses sex and gratuitous female nudity, even by fans of the original books (which are not exactly without their fair share of sexual content). The same is true of the other examples that you've given: they've all been subject to the same sort of critical response with respect to their representation of sexual content, so I don't think you can really say that if Danganronpa was sufficiently "Westernized" or mainstream that it would somehow evade criticism on that front. If anything, being more widely known would probably increase the amount of scrutiny it was under and lead to a greater amount of criticism.

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ThunderSlash

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@devoureroftime: Well that's a shame. Because the Ace Attorney games are ACE!

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TruthTellah

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@pepsiman said:

Oh, speaking of which, @patrickklepek, if you're ever interested in picking Kodaka Kazutaka, the series writer's mind, I know Hiroko at 8-4 is friends with the guy. He seems like a super intelligent guy that's probably aware of criticisms like yours already, but I totally bet you two could have a really interesting conversation about that game's writing that could better inform him about Western sensibilities on some of the things you pointed out. Just a thought. :)

Oh god, I'd love for this interview to happen. Please, let this interview happen.

ooo That could be a cool Interview! Please do make this happen, @patrickklepek! More conversations with Japanese devs would be great.

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DevourerOfTime

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@devoureroftime: Well that's a shame. Because the Ace Attorney games are ACE!

Really, the best content I could think of for the site would be a daily stream of @patrickklepek running through the Ace Attorney trilogy when it hits 3DS. Those games are fantastic.

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InfiniteGeass

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@infinitegeass said:

As a lonely forever alone otaku, I enjoy fanservice scenes in games and hope that Japan never stops having them. Also Chiaki is best girl, both in terms of personality and body.

A++ comment would read again

You might think it's a joke, but that is how I really am and how I really feel.

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irishalwaystake

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@patrickklepek

Yo Pat, while I agree that the fanservice doesn't really add anything to the game (bless the localisation team for being able to work with what they had) it's something I've come to terms with as an often a necessity for these niche Japanese games.

These moments tend to catch the attention of and are marketed to Japanese otaku that will go on to buy everything from figures to posters in droves (where the mark up can be huge). Not just the Japanese market either, I don't have to go outside my twitter feed to find American and English folk with Kill la Kill and DR2 figures and nendroids. Now I'm not Japanese but I'm guessing something like this doesn't get funded without certain fanservice allowances, hell even the Fire Emblem:Awakening's DLC had some and they are an established franchise with Nintendo's backing. (I know your not big on anime but the Reddit AMA on/and Kickstarter for, the Under The Dog anime gives some stark insights on Japanese production committees).

So while this is hyperbolic and hypothetical, would you consider something like no fanservice but a character gets cut a fair trade off? (this sounds kinda stupid as I ask this but I hope I'm getting the implication of lower budget/lesser game across). The thing about these smaller games is that they must be profitable in Japan first and foremost, considering the time it takes to translate, localize and port a game to EU/NA investors never sign off on a game that well do well abroad but poorly domestically.

Also on Mikan's tripping, while it doesn't excuse it I'm wondering if

caught the fact that it's highly unlikely that these were accidents, her free time and trial + the wording around the events (how is this even possible? etc etc) subtly suggest that she does this herself so that people pay attention to her. I thought the way you had to put this together for yourself was a cool little bit of story-telling tbh.

I agree that the trials were a mixed bag. I played on hard throughout usually getting a B/A rank. Trial 4's hangman's gambit was really testing but aside from that it wasnt too bad, I liked the dumb logic drive but the execution wasnt great, physically slashing arguments and the combos you could do there was great imo but my biggest disappointment was the change to rhythm game.

For a game so story focused I feel like you didnt really talk about if you liked the characters or not. I thought the writing did well to get me invested in characters I knew wouldn't survive (I just knew the victim of Trial 4 was too good to make it to the end but I still hoped). Every thing about Trial 3 also sucked cause I was actually warming up to two of the characters involved.

Maybe what I'm looking for is actually more of a spoilercast? Like, I would have enjoyed seeing what you thought about the remnants of despair twist along with its foreshadowing and how a lot of the report cards and free time events give hints for it.

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@devoureroftime: I haven't read much of his work myself, but I know that Orenronen, the guy who did the original LP for DR that set off its Western popularity in the first place, also covered 2 and my understanding is that he throws translation notes in for references whatnot as necessary, including the game reference in question that's so prominent in chapter 2. I don't how deeply he delves into some of the other stuff; you could practically write a book in and of itself about how much of a tribute most of the series is to Japanese game history (that intro in 2 features a god damn Sharp X68000!), but I do know judging from the interview he had with Patrick that he and I are basically on the same level when it comes to what the fanservice stuff is drawing from, so I wouldn't be surprised if he discusses it as necessary.

And thank you for your kind words as always. It's been a long day writing wise, so I'm surprised I came out coherent to most anyone. :)

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@thunderslash said:

So how about that Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright review eh? EH?!

I don't think anyone on the site has played through either of those series, have they? Maybe a Professor Layton game here or there...I know Patrick has no Phoenix Wright experience, for example...

I guess a review by someone who had played neither series would be kind of interesting?

Even as a fan of both series, I don't think it's all that great. A few neat ideas here and there like being able to use hint coins in court and the multi-person testimony, but overall, the two game styles never really come together at all. It's just two kinda average or maybe even below average entries in those franchises clumsily slapped together into one package.

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DevourerOfTime

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@devoureroftime said:

@thunderslash said:

So how about that Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright review eh? EH?!

I don't think anyone on the site has played through either of those series, have they? Maybe a Professor Layton game here or there...I know Patrick has no Phoenix Wright experience, for example...

I guess a review by someone who had played neither series would be kind of interesting?

Even as a fan of both series, I don't think it's all that great. A few neat ideas here and there like being able to use hint coins in court and the multi-person testimony, but overall, the two game styles never really come together at all. It's just two kinda average or maybe even below average entries in those franchises clumsily slapped together into one package.

Ace Attorney Investigations was a below average Ace Attorney game (and just a below average game in general), but I still don't regret playing it. Had some fantastic moments that are oh-so-typical of the series.

I don't have that high of hopes for Layton vs. Wright, considering your impressions echo everything I've heard from friends, but I'll still get around to playing it eventually. After the long, long wait, I don't think I could resist, even if it's disappointing.

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machinerebel

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I love anime.

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I think the Danganronpas have spoiled me on Phoenix Wright games. I keep on looking at the latest ones, thinking, "Man, I should get on that..." but then I just go fiddle around in the post-game content more.

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@pepsiman said:

@devoureroftime: I haven't read much of his work myself, but I know that Orenronen, the guy who did the original LP for DR that set off its Western popularity in the first place, also covered 2 and my understanding is that he throws translation notes in for references whatnot as necessary, including the game reference in question that's so prominent in chapter 2. I don't how deeply he delves into some of the other stuff; you could practically write a book in and of itself about how much of a tribute most of the series is to Japanese game history (that intro in 2 features a god damn Sharp X68000!), but I do know judging from the interview he had with Patrick that he and I are basically on the same level when it comes to what the fanservice stuff is drawing from, so I wouldn't be surprised if he discusses it as necessary.

Nice. I went back and listened to the dump truck again. Sounds like I should just immerse myself in the original notes of the fantranslation/let's play for the series as much as possible. Wish there was some sort of collection of this info on the internet somewhere. I could honestly read an entire book about this sort of stuff. But there is surprisingly very little information about the series on the internet in English, despite having a pretty big fanbase and now having an offical translation.

Oh well, I'll make due with what's out there. Thanks for the help!

P.S. Oh riiiiighhhtt. Chapter 2. Of course they would need to explain that. I guess, to keep it vague, it's not exactly necessary to know the specifics of the reference, but giving some context as to why it's even there helps remove some of the confusion.

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Neo Anime Editor Patrick Klepek earning his title once again I see. Just make sure not to let that hotshot upstart Dan Ryckert take that name from you with his Metal Gears and his Attack on Titans.

I don't see why people find his comment about fanservice so upsetting. Just because it's a common trope of visual novels doesn't mean it isn't above reproach.

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@patrickklepek said:

@infinitegeass said:

As a lonely forever alone otaku, I enjoy fanservice scenes in games and hope that Japan never stops having them. Also Chiaki is best girl, both in terms of personality and body.

A++ comment would read again

You might think it's a joke, but that is how I really am and how I really feel.

I think he's serious. Chiaki is objectively the best girl.

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DedBeet

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"Just because the game is aware of what's happening doesn't make it okay."

It actually is okay. It might be offensive, but it is most definitely okay. They get to put whatever they want in their game. We can laugh, or eye roll, or click our tongue in response, but at the end of the day, the creator gets to decide what is okay to include in their creation, not us. That kind of thinking is ruinous for creative freedom.

Agreed. You put this beautifully.

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I wanted to make a comparison between exploitative cartoons of woman who look under-age (*) and Randall in Clerks stubbornly defending that one racial slur because he had another connotation with it, but I don't want to get dragged into this shit. Just being part of that discussion is not worth my dignity, nor is it worth yours. There are some things we should just collectively drop and move away from, and schoolgirl upskirts is one of them.

(*)It's the under-age looking women who bother me. Exploitative media like Dragon's Crown, Tomb Raider and Bayonetta is a whole other discussion. I can respect people on both sides of that argument.

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comradecrash

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Now that I have a Vita I really want to try this series out. Looks fun! Great review!

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@pepsiman said:

I played this and the first game in Japanese originally, not out of any particular feelings towards the existing translations so much as just a personal appreciation for the writing style and whatnot employed in that language. I think with both games, but especially the second, there are definitely a lot of little moments that are meant to hearken back to aspects of Japanese game industry history and a lot of it is so very specific and esoteric to stuff that only took place there during the 80s and 90s that it's admittedly easy for parts of the game to lose their context and authorial voice, especially since the writing almost never actually tries to overtly explain these references. (This isn't to say that even all Japanese players get every last single reference those games are making; the fact that 2 actually explains it one major game reference that's necessary to know for plot progression attests to as much.) The fanservice stuff is, in my mind, definitely at the top of the pile. There is a very specific historical context that 2 especially is making fun of by including the moments that it does and the script makes it very apparent in the original Japanese that the major bits of fanservice are meant to be so over the top that it's supposed to be repugnant, but since a lot of the foundational stuff that the fanservice is referencing (very understandably) never got exported outside Japan nor (again, very understandably) would it have likely ever been received well anyway because of differences in approaches on sexuality and eroticism between Japan and Western countries, I think a reaction like Patrick's is pretty natural.

And that's totally okay in my mind.

Even when I talk about stuff like historical context and whatnot, the thing about translation and localization, as someone who does that sort of work with Japanese, is at some point you just have to accept that differences in cultural backgrounds will result in the audience for translations interpreting some aspects of the work differently than the original Japanese audience. It's hard enough to make things resonate as a writer in the way that they specifically want in their native language and cultural; anything beyond that is just too demanding. The best that I think you can do when localizing is try to massage the script here and there to make those original intentions in situations like DR2's fanservice stand out, since otherwise the base content has been set in stone for too long a time for it to be edited to be more accommodating of international sensibilities, if that's the right call to even make in the first place. Again, it is absolutely okay that overseas players express discomfort and disagree with the perceived core intent of that content, but there are definitely situations where it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing in terms of what all can be "done about it" on a localization time.

I've definitely read interviews that have said that Spike Chunsoft never expected either DR game to make it outside Japan, let alone get as relatively popular as they have, and, again, having played them in Japanese, I totally see why they would think that. I still feel they're brilliantly written games, but they totally are meant to be consumed first and foremost by players of a pretty specific background, essentially amounting to a niche subset of Japanese players, not just Japanese players broadly, so it's only natural that people from other backgrounds take to parts of those games differently and that's totally fine. Honestly, I think Spike Chunsoft is looking for that sort of feedback now that they know how well regarded the games generally are overseas so that they can actually work on better accomodating those sensibilities while the next games are still in development, rather than after the fact when localization is decided after the original Japanese is out.

Basically I think Patrick's fine for feeling the way that he does, even if I very respectfully disagree. :)

Oh, speaking of which, @patrickklepek, if you're ever interested in picking Kodaka Kazutaka, the series writer's mind, I know Hiroko at 8-4 is friends with the guy. He seems like a super intelligent guy that's probably aware of criticisms like yours already, but I totally bet you two could have a really interesting conversation about that game's writing that could better inform him about Western sensibilities on some of the things you pointed out. Just a thought. :)

This is an incredibly enlightening post, and I'm definitely going to keep your recommendation in mind!

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EvanSnicks

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Looking forward to trying this series and finally playing Persona 5 when PS TV launches. I just refuse to buy a Vita with those criminal memory card prices.

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@kierkegaard said:

@brodehouse said:

I agree with you 100% on the over-the-top-violence in general. When you boil it down, the reason why is very similar: it's a unnecessary aspect of the game that are only there to sell copies to those who find that content appealing, but, ultimately, are alienating factors for others. Not everyone wants to see that level of ultra-violence in their games and, even if they would love the gameplay, story, etc. aspects of the game, it might turn a whole bunch of people away from it. Does it make the game a horrible mess that people should be shunned for buying? No. It just makes the game a lesser product for the people it's not pandering to.

If one group finds something appealing, but another group finds it alienating, then that game is a lesser product for having something that one group doesn't like.

That's a myopic view. If you choose to ignore the political and social implications of subjugating anyone under the auspices of sex, that's on you.

Sub... subjugating..? Someone was subjugated? Women were subjugated because of this game?

But it's ignorance. It's not a like vs. not like thing. It's a thinking vs. not thinking thing.

Ahhh. It's not about like vs. not like, it's about agree with our norms or you are not thinking.

I wonder if you would take Muslim norms about how women should be represented as being as valid as your specific norms about how women should be represented? When I read people talking about how female characters should be dressed in order to not exploit all women everywhere, I generally expect it to come from the Christian Science Monitor.

These are the norms of humanity! If you objectify a person or an artistic representation of that person, you take away their subjectivity, their agency, their essence, their being. You make them a thing to be gaped at, a thing.

You are actively avoiding thought. To break this argument down to "how someone dresses" instead of the obvious implications of a mass of instances where female characters in games are made into sex objects is to ignore the world in front of you.

Again, stop hurting the thing you love. Again, when ignorance and false equivalence battles intellectual analysis and empathy, it always will, eventually, lose. Be on the winning side and do some good.

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deactivated-613abe3bc7be1

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I couldn't help but think of the hand-wringing here while I was watching Quan Chi breaking a guy's neck then forcing him to impale himself on a sword in the latest MKX trailer. What makes you uncomfortable is totally a matter of personal taste -- and sex and violence aren't directly comparable -- but from where I'm coming from, the Mortal Kombat series near-fetishistic violence is way more off-putting than some tame sexual humour. I've been uncomfortable with Mortal Kombat for as long as I can remember, and it does somewhat bug me that that element of the series is very rarely criticized while Japanese games with mild sexualization are the subject of so much consternation (at least from the English-language press).

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Lotus

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Whats wrong with women (virtual female characters, they are not real) in erotic poses?... anyways, i was wondering, how complicate it is to navigate the different game modes? can you cite an example, im having trouble as it is with the vita in terms of menu navigation with other games.

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DevourerOfTime

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@lotus said:

Whats wrong with women (virtual female characters, they are not real) in erotic poses?...

Read two posts above yours.

@lotus said:

anyways, i was wondering, how complicate it is to navigate the different game modes? can you cite an example, im having trouble as it is with the vita in terms of menu navigation with other games.

What do you mean how complicated it is to navigate the game modes? What do you mean by game modes? There really is only a very linear campaign and a few side things (a short novel, a minigame, and a side... resource management... thing) that are unlocked after you beat the game. Do you mean how approachable is the game across the Free Time/Investigation/Class Trial sections of the game?

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Majkiboy

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@dick_bonerflex said:
No Caption Provided

I think some people in this comment section need to step back, relax, and play this game.

OMG This is perfect :D

Here I'm helping!

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Lotus

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@lotus said:

anyways, i was wondering, how complicate it is to navigate the different game modes? can you cite an example, im having trouble as it is with the vita in terms of menu navigation with other games.

Do you mean how approachable is the game across the Free Time/Investigation/Class Trial sections of the game?

Yes, does it play very hands off, or do i need to move between a lot of menus with in the game sections you mention? How hard is to get to your handbook and find stuff you miss before?

I saw a youtube video of raw gameplay, it looks like a clusterfuck to me.

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hippie_genocide

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Does anyone think this got 3 stars instead of 4 because of panty shots and inexplicable exploding blouses? No? So...what are we talking about then?

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FancyDan

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Since the fan service is the main thing anyone around here is even talking about, I honestly felt like through the game that it was in many ways a parody of the stereotypes in the genre. Sometimes it comes across as a little more earnest, but overall it usually seemed to be pointing out the overall silliness of that content and the game as a whole, as it is an incredibly silly game that still manages to be brutal when it wants to. On a storytelling level that's actually one of the most original things about the game, although honestly if the fan service was removed I feel like it wouldn't really change that too much in the long run. I myself didn't find them offensive and instantly interpreted them as very tongue in cheek, I can see how many other people wouldn't see it that way, and that has swayed me away from recommending it to some people. My girlfriend, for example, loved the first danganronpa and we played through the whole thing together while laying in bed at night, but honestly I do feel like I have to warn her going in. Im at the end of the 4th chapter and things seem to be getting really good so I think I'll still recommend she play it if the story keeps picking up like it has been. I have to say it really does make me apprehensive when it comes to other people though, and I don't play it when I'm out usually because if someone saw that stuff without context it would really seem pretty bad. Then again, it's a rated M game so they can pretty much do what they want as far as I'm concerned when it comes to artistic freedom, and they are good games so I will still enjoy them one way or another.

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falling_fast

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i'm more surprised to see this because i didn't think anyone apart from people on tumblr angrily yelling about the somethingawful paywall cared about these games

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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People who complain about "opinions" because of the criticism of a section of a review don't seem to realize that, oftentimes, that is exactly all those people are saying. Yes. Patrick's squeamishness at sexuality in games is his opinion. He is free to hold it. But it is nothing more than his opinion. Not a factual judgment of objective morality pointing out a wrongdoing damaging society.

Patrick's free to not like it and think it harms the game. Others are free to like it and think it's part of what makes these games different. Others are free to simply shrug their shoulders and not care either way. What is important to remember is that these opinions are, roughly, equally valid, and neither the criticized or the criticizee are the moral authorities.

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mr_creeper

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@memu said:

I am a big fan of Patrick and I am also a big fan of fan service in anime. I love High School of the Dead for example. This stuff in Danganronpa that Patrick takes offense at didn't even register with me.

I also think many guys pretend they are offended because that seems "right", but secretly enjoy the animated panty shot or breast jiggle. Or they are afraid to be labeled as otaku or pervert by their friends/peers.

Completely agree with you on this stuff here, man. I've no problems with any of this stuff - or anything that's ever been said on the Bombcast, for that matter - and even though it's well within people's right to criticize "fan service" and the like, it still rubs me the wrong way because I'm never really sure if they mean it or they're just trying too hard for some ulterior reason.

Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. Just give my opinion on others' opinions...of opinions? Sure. Go with that.

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Dimsey

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I'll be upfront in saying I like fan service. I don't begrudge anyone if they don't, different strokes and all that.

No pun intended?

I'm not saying that's the case here, but generally speaking my problem with the majority of criticism levied at it is less the actual criticism and more that a lot writers seem to have trouble NOT insulting people who DO like that kind of thing when they are criticizing it.

Anything comes outta Japan that even hints at sexualization of its characters and the average article will call it and the people that like it juvenile and say that it's there for lonely basement dwellers and they're probably misogynistic creeps too! Hell anyone that sexualizes anything from anywhere that'll be the case, but Japanese games tend to be the majority I suppose.

I just tend to avoid any article, preview or review about any game I know might trigger this sort of discussion because half the time I feel like the writers are just talking down to me 'cos I happen to like what I like.

I had to actually work up the nerve to click the link for this review because I wouldn't have been surprised to see it here and it'd have just bummed me out.

In any event I still need to pick up the first game.

Always have trouble making myself play anything on a handheld though. Not a fan of tiny screens.
But this looks up my alley enough that I'll have to force myself to do it at some point.

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thefriend

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It's crazy and ridiculous and fun!?!? Mental what they can do with games these days.

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Mawarup

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Glad to see that you finished this game and I can respect your thoughts on it. I didn't feel there were all that much fan service scenes, but there were more than the last game. Maybe there are hidden ones and I needed to do something to unlock them? I didn't enjoy much of the hangman and the logic dive seemed rather tacked on. I am glad they are doing something to series and excited to see what the 3rd game will be like.

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DevourerOfTime

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@mawarup said:

Maybe there are hidden ones and I needed to do something to unlock them?

The two most egregious scene in the game require you to have certain items in your inventory at certain points in the game and talk to certain characters to unlock.

I got them while I was getting the platinum trophy (something I rarely do) and I'm just glad I missed them the first time I played it.

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@devoureroftime: I guess I just continue to be baffled when in the same week I see the brutal violence of cutting orc's heads off in Shadows of Mordor praised yet a few panty shots are called out as a detriment to the game in Danganronpa. And yes, opinions and whatnot but I just continue to not understand peoples stance on why being okay with extreme violence in games is for the most part generally accepted and sexual content is usually much maligned. Which, I realize I'm now bringing an entirely different conversation into this so I'll just exit door left and bid everyone adieu and good day.

When it's violence, the discussion ends with "well, it's a game... people are perfectly able to differentiate between videogames and the real world so while ultraviolence might not be your thing it doesn't mean there's something 'wrong' with the game"

And when it's eroticism, the discussion never ends. Is starts with "even though it's only a game, It's a reflection of our 'gamer culture' and things like panty-shots are making our children grow up misogynists" and goes downhill from there.

The "yo, it's a game" defence apparently holds varied mileage depending on what discussion we're having. The assumption that people can discern entertainment and real life is in place for all kinds of fucked up shit in video games, but when it comes to sexual objectification it's suddenly gone... inciting another paternalistic debate that we've had tons of times for various perceived wrongs in games.

My reaction to the 'fan service' is that it's stupid. I could also see people thinking it's funny. I can even imagine people think it's hot. Other than that I'm coming up on 30, been playing games for pretty much all my life and don't really need to be told how to feel about that stuff.

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JeanLucAwesome

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I like fan service, mainly because it makes me laugh. Fan service is often so ridiculous that it makes me face palm with laughter, and who doesn't like to laugh? But that's me, it definitely rubs others differently.

That being said, when it comes to sexuality in general, I'm not against a character showing a little skin either. It's not like I'm about to stop playing or pause a show to gawk at boobies but I don't mind eye candy.

For sure, I think there's a line that can be crossed but in my opinion no game in recent memory comes remotely close to crossing it.

It truly is subjective, but I do find myself a little baffled when I hear stories like people freaking out about Samus wearing gym shorts in Smash.

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I'm assuming Patrick wrote this? Has anyone noticed that the byline doesn't have a name? That probably should be fixed... @patrickklepek