Giant Bombcast 603: Call of Tuesday

GOTY Goose Game conversation is going to be really interesting.

@kcin: it’s kind of a bummer, but this is how it goes every year. They can’t talk about the games they haven’t played, so I usually tune into the GotY talks more for entertainment than for worrying about their picks.

For example, thus far, I’d argue that FF14 Shadowbringers should probably win this year’s Best Music award, but it almost certainly won’t be mentioned at all because no one played it. And like you said, Outer Wilds will probably get shafted a bit.

i was told that they all admit that they can't figure out untitled goose game, and i thought i was being lied to. but lmao

Really? Seriously? Is this a joke? You can't possibly be mad at someone for being unaware of THE FUCKING VOODOO VINCE REMAKE!

People will complain about literally anything.

Blindsided by dislike of untitled goose game, they have valid points but damn- dismissed

Some people game almost exclusively for mechanics (Jeff, Dan). It's not surprising that those who don't care much about story in games don't care for ones that emphasize it.

It's likely that the Japanese folks at Nintendo of 1990 didn't know how to use quotes properly. 75 percent of English speakers don't seem to get it. If I could make money correcting bad quotation marks I would 100 percent do it. It's my true calling.

@avioto: While I won't disagree with the sentiment that guh man microtransactions are pretty gross at this point, in a world where we can almost assume every game has them *I know dude, why*, Breakpoint isn't actually doing anything worse than Wildlands, the biggest difference, and hangup a lot of people are having I think is due to the fact that the social hub is basically a 'show off how you look' area, which is the ONLY area in which any micro-transactions happen. There is no benefit to any of the microtransactions other than 'looking cool' or robbing yourself of playtime in the way they've done for years. I'm not saying it's good, I am saying it's just not any worse than it has been, other than the idea that the 'lobby-social-area' has the store right there as a physical place, as opposed to a tab you scroll over to. Arguably, wildlands was as in-your-face with it where they literally grey'd out items you could see in your inventory, only to have a message pop up saying 'buy it from the store'- this is absent in Breakpoint and replaced by a completely optional and ignorable store-npc to offer up stuff for people who will spend more money for vanity's sake. That is literally it.

The saddest part of this, is that it is the focal point of discussion, and I commend Jeff for actually articulating his criticisms and praises around the GAME part of the game, not the COMPLETELY gameplay-removed microtransactions that happen on the side. This game has a current 3.5 on metacritic, entirely because of the microtransaction narrative, to the point of literal misinformation, IE words like 'paywall', 'pay-to-win' which is just literally false information and not how it works. I have a feeling the narrative will turn around and the score will level out, once people wise up after the standard edition comes out- even Kotaku is making an effort to clarify for people that no, the game does in no way hinge on you paying more money than entry price, unless you really want that cool jacket you might even find out in the wild. The closest analogy I can think of as far as how it works is either AC:oddyssey or the Division 2's crate system, but it doesn't even go as far as either of those.

Normally, I wouldn't give a shit about a score, but this user-bombing on Breakpoint because of memetic language and bad-practices on all AAA's part is actually portraying an imaginary version of the game, which, outside of the internet reaction culture, where reality exists, there is ZERO paywalling and absolutely no pay to win scenarios. If anything is to be slammed, it's the enemy AI, which should be the focal point for concern. Thankfully it seems ubisoft knows this and is addressing it. I'm really enjoying my time with Breakpoint and, while I won't root for ubisoft's tactics to place a microtransaction catwalk as a social hub in the game, (which ironically has served to shoot themselves not just in the foot here but in the face), I will say that I am almost angry that people are so dumb they can't parse a game long enough to understand how they even tie in to the game itself, or in this case, actually don't. It's frightening.

ON A MUCH LIGHTER NOTE AND SUPER FUCKING COOL THING TO ME:

Jace Skell (genius inventor of Aurora) is acted and voiced by RODNEY MOTHER FUCKING MULLEN, DUDE! If nothing else is, that is a very inspired casting choice I was blind....slided by.

There's going to have to be a global catastrophe of an event to somehow dethrone Randy Pitchford / Gearbox as this year's shoe-in for "hottest mess".

I agree with the Sony games. Bought a PS4 a year ago to try out some stuff and overall whelmed by them. The gameplay isn't the standout in any of them and I don't find the stories compelling enough to call them super amazing games. I thought the Spider-man story was OK at best and the combat/gameplay to be weak. It got to a point I dreaded combat encounters in that game. God of War had the best combo but I wasn't that enthralled with the story, felt it was really slow and lagged in areas in order to drag it out over a series with sequels. The game itself had some fun combat but was very meticulous in ways that just irked me as time went on. I've only played the first two Uncharteds but man my experience from those is that is one hell of an overrated series. All supposed flash with a bad story and bad gameplay. Horizon was a miss too for me. Combat I didn't like and the story did nothing to connect me. And it looked good but had arguably the worst facial expressions I've seen in videogames. It looked like every character just received botox injections.

A lot of the fanfare and hype over these games I feel is largely due to Sony's success this gen and people just continuing and piling on with that and they can do no wrong. That and the fragile gamer ego being catered too with single player experiences a bit more which is a large chunk of the vocal gaming minority.

I think Ben is genuinely funny. Ben I think you’re funny!

That list of the "worst 80s songs" made me angry.

I wasn't an 80s child but man, I've heard all those songs and I love em. That list is garbage.

Also, We Built This City is a fucking classic, I love it, I will defend it till I die. Shout out to the haters.

@infinity_thor: I don't see anyone here giving examples of what they think are good games if they don't like Sony games. What is everyone considering to be the alternative to prestige games?

People are kind of miffed about the crew not liking Goose Game. I can understand their perspective though. Oddly enough, I tried, I truly tried to get into Outer Wilds. I played a couple hours. I explored. I read things. I went to different planets. I tried so hard after I heard Vinny and a lot of other people on the internet gush about it. But goddamn if that game isn't for me. And from a certain point of view, you could say I hate it.

I don't. I just don't think it's worth the hype. Nor do I like how aimless it is. I think that's where the Bomb crew is coming from. They wanted to like the Goose. They tried it. And they were worried when they didn't like it.

At the end of the day, certain games aren't for everyone. Opinions and all that. And, a lesson that hype, especially overhype can ruin games.

Look I can take or leave that Goose game but Wake Me Up Before You Go Go is not a bad song at all.

Brad: Eventually it came all over the place.

Jeff: Word!

it's not an alternate necessarily but an acknowledgement they aren't the be all end all of gaming. "Lesser" titles have a place and can be preferred. My best analogy is in movies. Schindler's List is a great movie with tons of praise however it is a movie I never want to watch and don't plan on ever watching it, despite its greatness and that I love movies. However something like Dumb and Dumber is stupid but I'd watch that 10/10 times over Schindler's List. I have more fun with D-squared and an enjoyable experience even though it wasn't rated as high critically. On the flip side you have the more artsy movies like Schindler vs the pop culture icons of a MCU film and I'm all about the MCU.

And I don't have a problem with the 'prestige' games as much except for when they are held to the standard and what the "real gamers" play bs and that all games should be that way. That and they generally get an up-their-own-ass vibe going with the people who make them and are fans of them. The Sony games aren't bad games but certainly not, in my opinion, the standard for gaming nor way better than other games released on the market. The stories aren't that good and the gameplay ranges from meh to good.

And for examples, I have several I'd throw out there but one that works is Forza Horizon 3. I'd take that game over anything Sony released even though it doesn't have the fancy cinematic "emotional" story and is instead a car game and wrecking through Australia.

When I played the ghost recon breakpoint beta it just seemed like the game is stitched together with parts and pieces of cancelled games. It was just weird.

It's been weird to me that (aside from Rorie), Jeff has been the main one who played Wildlands and now Breakpoint. They're totally not his type of game. They're specifically meant for co-op, which Jeff has said he doesn't really care to engage with. I think it was mostly a fluke that Jeff ended up liking Wildlands as much as he did, due to the overpowered AI tagging thing. And because this game doesn't have that, because it focused even more on the co-op, he doesn't like it as much.

The Jedi Academy email amused me, because I totally understand it. I put in literal thousands of hours into the Jedi Academy multiplayer on PC. Weird to note that there are some differences - the PC had a specific key to challenge someone to a 1v1 duel. You'd become a ghost to everyone but your opponent, so nothing could interfere. There was also a separate duel game mode that had even more rules. The BIG thing about the PC community, though, was a community-driven rule called "laming." You see, the people who hung out in servers (mostly the clan servers) basically treated Jedi Academy as a chat room. It was considered rude, and usually against server rules, to run in there and fight people without consent. Doing so was labeled "laming." People who did this were given a warning, and usually they apologized because they didn't know. But if they continued, they were kicked and maybe even banned. No laming, man!

I'm curious to hear what rorie has to say about breakpoint.

edit: rest was overly critical.

Holy shit, The Untitled Goose Game discussion did my head in pretty good. I mean, i honestly can't fathom how anyone (yes, even if you don't play games) have hard time getting the basic grasp on it.

If my 5 years old Niece can play...

If you mean Horizon Zero Dawn jeff gave that a 5/5. He isnt really bummed about sequels he just likes new stuff. COD is an old flame of his so it doesn't really need to change. The team is near perfect in describing their takes and you should support their decision in not enjoying a game. They tell it like it is. Plus jeff has years of experience. He knows when a game is flawed and his opinion is helpful in keeping bad games from fans of the site.

I keep asking myself why I keep listening to this show. The dullness and old man grumblings are such a drag.

Ben, I've finally found some common ground with you. Abracadabra is the worst popular song ever.

Maybe the game is just bad or not their thing given they like puzzle games and hitman. They beat and loved The Witness. I think they just came in thinking the game would be this unbelievable goose thing that's silly and charming like the trailers make it out and influencers say it is. In reality it's less goat simulator and more puzzler with ascetics to hide that it's just another puzzler click adventure like simulation. much like the lego games older people have more issues with kid looking games cause they expect it to be easy pie and overthink stuff or under think leading to a quick take that the game is boring, hard, dull, obtuse, annoying, etc. I am open to interpretations since i only know of the game vai osmosis.

So many people here taking their mild critique of goose game as 'they hate the game'. They didn't hate it, it was just not for them

Goose Game is not Hitman. You go into it thinking game will give you simple objectives that have a wide variety of ways to complete it. Instead it gives you very specific objectives that it wants you to complete in specific ways. It's a puzzle game trying to disguise itself as a sandbox stealth game.

In the end it's just 4 small levels that are each self-contained and don't mix together. There are some bonus challenges that try to mix the levels and do it poorly.

We Built this City is a really awful song

Just to counter the "negative" Goose Game review, (and no it doesn't make me toxic Bsmittel).

This is a game that genuinely I haven't heard a bad thing about before just now; just about everyone I know personally, (just look at the comments), loves. And its the first game at my house that literally everyone is playing, (ages 38, 37, 10, and 3). It has a wonderful fandom. With loud laughs from the kids and communication at dinner about what the goose just did, or how we did something. -- I dont think being surprised/disappointed by the reaction of the whole table on a site i pay for makes me toxic.

Everyone has opinions, I hate 30% of the games they like; thats fine.

Jeff hates Red Dead and thats nuts to me, but I think Mario maker is not fun at all.

Goose Game is not a masterpiece. Its a goofy downloadable game. I am fine with any game they dislike.

For me, its not that they dont like the game, its why it stumped them... The tough puzzles and the clunky mechanics were their critiques, and I couldn't disagree more. 1) they couldn't figure out the puzzles my 10 year old can; 2) they cant do the mechanics that my 3 year old can.

Hearing Ben say that they, "would like this if you could just run around and do goose carnage", um you 100% can. My nephew just sits for 20 minutes pulls pumpkins and gets chased and laughs. I got bored doing it, but you can just do random crap like Noby Noby Boy as long as you want. He has also solved some puzzles on his own, (I read to him because he cant read).

But also just like i loved the trophies in Noby Noby Boy, (because otherwise it wasn't a "game" just a "simulator" - and the trophies really guided your experience), the notebook stuff is basically suggestions. You do have to do a certain amount to progress -- but like "the hat" they are bitching about, i got to the next area without doing that at first, you can just skip it. (Also its super easy to get his hat multiple ways, Ben was right, just take his hat and he puts on the sun hat - you are over thinking it maybe!?).

On it being clunky - not more than its supposed to be - the puzzles may be hard to think of at first, until you observe peoples patterns; but they are all pretty simple - and the mechanics arent hard to get around at all -- i tell my almost 3 year old nephew what he needs to do - (he has to look down at what button i said almost each time, and his thumbs dont reach the thumb-sticks - so these guys should be better than him) - he can do the puzzles when i guide him. So again -- hearing an adult expert on games struggle with this, its weird.

Being surprised that the game site I go to didn't connect with a game we currently love doesn't make me or my niece and nephew toxic. I just want to let people who may not play it now because of the negativity -- who wont hear about it on "game of the year podcasts", its great! Great for kids!!!

Luckily in the next podcast they seem to like Concrete Genie which i also think was a breath of fresh air.

I gave a listen to that Abracadabra song for the first time and yeah, that's not a great song. It's no Milli Vanilli , Oh Yeah or Hip To Be Square, but it's def a bad song.

That said, i just don't understand the dislike of We Built This City. Technically that song is pretty decent, the vocals are not badly sung neither. Ben mentioned that it doesn't rock very much, and yes that's true, but i don't think it's really going for that neither. The Beatles are a rockband that doesn't rock often. The Killers don't rock often. U2 doesn't do it much. Arctic Monkeys steers away from rock at times. It's a viable choice to make catchy guitarmusic that's not aiming to make you feel like a bad ass. What Starship gives you in return is a catchy guitar driven popsong with a strong melody and memorable chorus. It's a bit repetitive perhaps and the lyrics aren't mindblowing. (knee deep in the hoopla is pretty much a nonsensical goofy phrase that they should not use :P)

So that makes me wonder, is it regarded as awful because the lists often put it on these lists as an awful song, or because of the Jefferson Airplane relation & this move just feeling like some sort of betrayal? These kind of lists are pretty hard to take serious to be honest because they're obviously designed to contain high profile songs that evoke reactions instead of actually figuring out what is a bad song. These editors are not going to drown themselves in the sludge of the 80's for this one listacle, they base it on their immediate memories and go on from there.

Does anyone have a link to the Captain lou / cuphead mario homebrew game was talking about near the end of the Podcast?