Giant Bombcast Game of the Year 2017: Best Game

Why bother giving props to any of those games meticulously crafted with love and affection, rife with detail, when you can give it to unoptimized, buggy, broken messes and visual novels? Sounds logical to me.

The people saying "In a year of all these Video Game Masterpieces™, why would they let a throwaway zeitgeist game like Plunkbat win?"

Understand, your tears are delicious.

They should consider having separate multiplayer and single player lists. Some games might end up on both lists.

5 HOURS????

Just some constructive criticism for Abby, maybe for next year: Comments like "It's very good" or "It's very fun" aren't very convincing arguments when you are trying to argue about the top games on a list. I know Abby is new at this but I can't even count the number of times she said "It's a very good (insert thing or concept here)" during these deliberations. It basically means nothing. Every line item that made it onto these lists at all is "good."

The more I think about it, the more I'm ok with Dream Daddy. I don't like that game at all, but as someone who is a big fan (and defender) of Senran Kagura, I understand why the people who like it do. Even if it's not one of the neat niche games I like, it's nice to see one recognized.

I'm a little surprised that Horizon: Zero Dawn is getting as much support as it is. I remember the comments when it first came out and a good number of them were from those that didn't look too impressed by it :x

For the record I also enjoyed Horizon

@ms_mohr: This, for sure. I love Abby to death (despite her thinking Nier has a "generic JRPG" soundtrack), but I felt like she was her own worst enemy in these deliberations. I'm sure she knows very well what it is she loves about these games, but she needs to focus on improving how she articulates that to everyone else.

@ms_mohr: No offense but, comments like these are why people accuse these boards of drifting into sexism. This is something that literally every person on this crew is guilty of regularly, with the exception of Vinny and Alex (although they have done the same). Jeff and Dan have literally used the phrase "it's so damn good" as their reason why something should be GOTY.

Yet, Abby is here getting "constructive criticism" that her arguments are not convincing due to their simplicity (also, I think that this critique in and of itself is a little preposterous -- she makes very good arguments, particularly for Dream Daddy, on the games she cares about, IMO).

I'm kinda surprised no one talked about the end of Hellblade, which I think was one of the best endings this year.

How the game slowly makes you understand that letting go is ok and then you finally let go. It was such a good moment.

So it almost feels like a quarter or so on the GOTY talk have been about Nier and that kinda sucks. Its a interesting game but it kinda feels like it stole the show, which would make sense if its up against not so good games but this year I strongly disagree on that. Still its neat that a underdog was talked about so much, but it certainly wasn't the only deserving underdog here. Its a matter of taste I think and overall I feel like the staff were still very reasonable about talking on any of the games.

Overall, over 5 hours of GOTY talks are very well justified considering all the amazing games and as someone who had a 4 hour business meeting in a room that is a bit smaller than the podcast room I can emphasize.

Watching the team duking it out for Nier and seeing the arguments for the game it feels like that they never had any interest into the themes that games did cover before Nier: AM did. It seems crazy that people fight for this game so freaking much in this year that it sometimes made me scratch my head (again, I probably would understand this if it came out in 2016). Hell, even a older game like Homeworld 1 did nail similar feelings on the grandness of the whole and the insignificance of ones own existance, the culture you previously thought is set in stone and the question if moving forward even has a point. Homeworld 1 does get to its point faster across, too. Also consider that that game is 18 years old. If people enjoyed Nier they should or even must play Homeworld 1, thats my pitch for today thanks for listening!

ANYWAY, Nier is a lot of playing around trying to get the point across, it certainly is a grand game, but its not unreasonable to state that Nier competes with some really heavy hitters here. Its kinda odd in what direction these talks went but hey thats their choice!

At least they're partially focusing on talks on how Nier: AM does try to deliver story via aspects of the gameplay but geez theres books and even other games that just nail the question about humanity/culture and positive progression in the face of nihilism and the possible existantial dread that come with that in a way more professional and cohesive way. Its neat that some games cover these themes but IMHO its more like a question about the zeitgeist that these games cover. And I think a lot of discussions about the games are going to be important if we bring them to the context of todays real world conciousness. I think thats why Jeff for instance put a game like Nier into #2. I doubt that he would've done the same years ago, considering he even made a hard turn for Horizon during this year.

And its aweful that nobody talks about the best thing on Nier: AM which is the weapons lore! Like seriously go and read that stuff, its more subtle and nicely written and in context of the game it made playing through the game more fun overall. Sometimes it would've been nice to see them cover that stuff. Its one of those details that really became more than it meets the eye, even more so if compared with the contexts of the games general themes. I consider it by far the strongest point of the game.

Anyway, a game like Odyssey that delivers a wholesomely positive set of themes (and really well executed, even just watching the game while others play it felt great) is just as valid as a narratively focused game like Nier that almost does the opposite thing, though Nier also has a lot of funny and even happy parts but nobody really talks about that because its not really that good in that regard. A game like Nier: AM is not played because of its comedy aspects.

Anyway, Vinny and Brad are the voice of reason in the darkness that are the GOTY talks but I would still recommend Abby and Dan to "suffer" through a underdog such as Nier: Automata. I'm sure they probably but I'm also sure that Abby is expecting exactly what Nier offers now that shes spoiled. I doubt that her opinion will change but you never know.

And at least Alex acknowledged that hes not mad at people for bouncing off for whatever reason but I often felt that hes like one of those people that consider folks "wrong" for not enjoying a game he finds impactful. I almost lost hope there but a year ago I wrote that I find Alex a really relateable person and it shows here, haha. I'm usually also a person who sometimes explains things in a extremly (elaborative) things but its always good to step back and look at the situation for a certain angle.

Also every game on the Top 10 will be influential in a way! I don't like the implication by some of the staff that everyone should write anything similar to Yoko Taro does, as his writing is very peculiar but maybe I took that specific thing the wrong way. Some people who gave Nier the first place pretty much already covered their sentiments quite greatly on their respective lists while explaining about why it was impactful (like Rami did).

Anyway, these talks were super great. Heres on to another amazing year on video games! Even this years discussion felt a bit odd overall the talks were probably the best you guys have ever done!

Thats all for me, just wanted to elaborate one last time. I'm really glad the talks ended the way they did. Can't really agree or disagree overall, though theres certainly have been some really amazing games people really didn't look into, too! But this year really stood out, I certainly will keep playing a lot of the games released in 2017 for the next few years.

I'm just typing this much because I'm really just glad and super happy that DOTA 2 won again deservely, what a good year!

Gonna rewatch this talk again in a few days without other distractions, too. Right now I'm just listening to the last 4-5 hours of it with one ear.

@sethmode: I think you are way off-base. I think Abby is great, but I absolutely noticed that with her arguments as well. There were numerous times where she did exactly that 5 or 6 times in the spaces of 20 or 30 seconds. That's not to say everyone else at GB is some gifted orator, by any means, but it's never stood out to me in the same way. There's nothing wrong with noticing it, and trying to play it off as sexism for some reason is just stirring things up where there isn't anything.

As I said in my previous comment, it's clear she knows what she likes about these games, she just needs to be better at telling everyone else. I'd argue that, since the whole point of these things being recorded is for us the viewers, it is imperative that we understand the cases being made. And simplicity isn't the best way to go about doing that. It's a valid criticism.

Maybe visual novels aren't your thing, but some people can enjoy them a lot - just as much as any given AAA blockbuster title.

If you were expecting any group of eight people to collaboratively put together a list that perfectly reflects only the qualities you appreciate in games, then you have set yourself up to be disappointed by this list every year.

The one interesting observation that I've seen here that I think may be worth delving into is that the top spot has been claimed by extremely stream-friendly games for three years in a row. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is probably worth keeping in mind that the staff's experience with some games are unavoidably impacted to some degree by their job.

@orion1189: I disagree with you on just about every level, and really didn't find it to be as apparent as you did. If anything, it only became an issue when Dan kept pushing the issue of Dream Daddy with fairly bad arguments (and sometimes saying things that are just false). But regardless, as I said in my post, it's something that literally all of them have done and still do, whether you remember it or not. Mario Maker was essentially given GOTY because it is "so good! The perfect game!" When it is singled out toward Abby despite her not being any worse at it, then it rings as sexism to me. Sorry you disagree, but it certainly isn't me "stirring things up where there isn't anything".

My number 1 please stop for 2017 is Please stop encouraging unfinished messes by awarding them goty. It deserved the win in best multiplayer (in an incredibly weak year for multiplayer), I understand how it can be someone's favourite game, I can't understand how someone can hold it up as a positive example of the best we can do in games. Maybe just make a most fun category and split it off from best game, or just rename best game to most fun if thats what the main criteria is going to be. Or slightly more tongue in cheek one maybe 'most streamable'.

@sethmode: I could ask you to quote me places from this exact video where the rest of the team did that, but I'm not making this into a big thing. It was vaild criticism for a member of the crew I like a lot. Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you, aside from you are most definitely looking for sexism in places where there isn't any. Have a good one.

Nothing wrong with visual novels or unoptimized, buggy, broken messes that push out "1.0" without actively fixing jackshit winning awards. Bethesda's been releasing broken games forever and it will never stop. I actively dislike PUBG and haven't played DD but it's their choices. The only one I can't understand is Destiny 2 being anywhere near the Top 10.

@sethmode: I'm not familiar with the genre, so can you tell me what Dream Daddies does that is actually new for visual novels?

@orion1189: Wow...yeah, color me shocked you don't see the sexism in this situation and are writing it off out of hand, as you do literally the same thing to me just dressed up in faux niceties. Have a good one indeed haha.

where were you looking because upon release there was hardly anyone i saw saying that even Jeff who i would have guessed would take a huge dump on it said he loved it other wise he wouldn't have given it five stars for his review.

what surprises me the most is how quickly it's been dismissed in practically everything they have discussed and given top honours to games that were 3-4 stars at best hell PUBG has no rating because the game wasn't even a release at the time of the recordings yet wins game of the year ( insert Drew blink meme Gif here ).

Now i'm not saying reviews are the be all and end all but they do give an indication to the quality and enjoyment of a game and i'm not saying Horizon should be top 3 ( even though it is top three for me personally ) but how Horizon doesn't even make the top 10 is beyond me.

@sethmode: The guys have been called out on that and a great many other similar things over the years numerous times. I'm sorry but sexism just isn't the issue here.

This has been an interesting GOTY. I definitely disagree with some choices, but I guess that's the beautiful thing about opinions. It was fun to see the new hires sharpen their claws for next year too.

@mhsilver: Why are you asking me to? Why is it even important? It resonated with her and Vinny for it's characters, writing and charm. This was made abundantly clear and easy to understand. Dan was literally the only one that seemed to be in bed with the concept that it needs to be re-inventing what a Dating Sim is (while simultaneously trumpeting Destiny 2, Mario Odyssey and Uncharted).

Look, how you receive these arguments is almost as subjective as the content itself. But to act like Abby is just repeating "it's very good" is as untrue as it is unfair. She made her point, and if anything, Dan wouldn't let it go. If the frustration was mounting anywhere, it was over Dan's inability to let go of the idea of it not being "good enough" or not "doing enough new" or whatever handful of arguments he made against it.

To say again, I don't mind that Dan's argument is what it is, but my irritation with this is that Abby gets "criticism" for eventually succumbing to "it's very good, the writing is good, the whatever is good" while it just gets a pass in other forms among other team members.

Horizon definitely should have made the top 10.

I can understand it not winning any category (though I personally would have given it best world and best story), on the basis of it arguably not being the absolute BEST at any one particular thing (outside graphics technical, but GB doesn't have such an award).

It's just really good to great at everything, across the board, and the cumulative result was one of the best, most satisfying action adventure games in years.

@optimalpower: I never said it never happened, but look at these very comments. It's implied that they don't do it "as much" and that just isn't true. That's all I have left to say on the issue. It feels to me that there are several people chomping at the bit each week to call Abby out for something, whether they couch it in a "I love Abby but..." or not.

Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. I'd also put most of those over Tekken 7 or Destiny 2, but Dream Daddy being on this list when none of those are is incomprehensible.

I don't think being innovative is necessary for a game to be on this list. You're trying to hold visual novels to an unfair standard just because you don't personally like visual novels. That being said, just try watching the Quick Look and you'll see that Dream Daddy does do unique creative things like briefly turning into a Pokemon style bragging battle.

Isn't it sufficient to just execute on a known genre extremely well? Nobody is complaining about Destiny 2 or Wolfenstein 2 being on the list just because they're FPS games or sequels that are very similar to their predecessor. The key components of visual novels are writing and character development, and Dream Daddy executes on those core principles very well in a way that resonated with some of the staff.

Thank god I wasn't the only one who thought so.

@sethmode: You sure are trying hard to make something of all this. Yeesh...

I think it's definitely reaching to claim sexism based off of "I didn't think this person was very well articulated in their arguments for what video game they liked the most." I could see that if they were just attacking Abby's taste, but all of the comments here seem to agree that Abby's thoughts on these games were fine (if not better), just that, as someone new to this process, she could work on her articulation. The only bias I've seen here in people's judgement of her is her being a new hire.

Alex wearing his Colors! In grey and black of course.

@chaser324: I think it's a shock for a lot of people to even see a dating sim have a shot next to these other heavy hitters. While I haven't played it myself, and have never touched a dating sim, Dream Daddy definitely offers something that even I find uniquely appealing. And I also have enjoyed some Game Grumps videos from time to time, so their involvement, even if it was only from a production standpoint, is a little interesting as well. Its spot on a top 10 list for the year, while surprising, is totally earned.

@chaser324: I wouldn't have put Wolfenstein 2 on the top 10 either, but at least I was given a convincing argument about why it was there, packed with examples throughout the entire week of debate. Abby's contributions regarding the quality and import of Dream Daddies amounted to repeating 'It's VERY good' so many times I wanted to turn it into a drinking game.

I probably personally would put Destiny 2 on there somewhere, but I don't think the arguments the GB staff presented for it were much better than the arguments for Dream Daddies so I understand why anybody would think it didn't belong there.

I simply asked because I don't think Abby did a particularly good job explaining why it was a particularly good example of the genre. I somebody else could add context, it would help me understand the case for the game.

Fire Emblem Heroes was robbed.

More like the most overrated game of the year.

"I think this does a lot for the dating sim genre,,,I haven't played a ton of them to be fully honest."

Knowing Battlegrounds wins makes me not want to listen to this at all.

Placing Dream Daddy on this list was, regardless if it was enjoyable, just GB conceding to a game with "good representation".

I just hit the 3 hour mark, and I can't figure out how on EARTH Zelda got from where it currently is (getting quasi-dunked on by half of the staff) to the number 2 GOTY. Should be an interesting road to travel.

If I never hear another word about Dream Daddy it will be too soon. Abby is a great addition to the GB-team, but I'm sick and tired about DD by now.

@taesoawful: Right, because people who's opinions i disagree with are automatically [insert personal Hitler here].

Congrats to SONIC FORCES!!!

Yeah. The negative reaction to Dream Daddy is largely genre bias. If Abby had pushed for a game in damn near any other genre, there wouldn't be nearly as many people here acting outraged - although there would definitely still be some.

Unfortunately, some of the angry folks are also motivated by sexism against the only woman on staff. It can sometimes be difficult to discern what someone's motivation is for complaining, but Abby does in general get nitpicked a lot for criticism that could easily apply to one or more current/former men on the GB staff. I think it's impossible to not acknowledge that a lot of that disproportionate response can be attributed to sexism (either willful or subconscious).

As far as the genre issue goes, many people assume that every visual novel is anime harem bullshit, and I totally get why some people would think that. However, visual novels are in fact capable of being very good when they're able to put together the pieces of compelling characters, plot, art, etc.

Oh god this is it. I gotta go shovel my driveway, then its on!

@chaser324:

Yeah chaser, Abby should be immune from criticism because she's female.

@chaser324: Absolutely. I think sexism, much like racism, is a very serious issue, and likewise a serious allegation that is thrown around by people on the internet nearly as liberally as actual sexism and racism, which is always very irritating to me. That said, I don't doubt that there are some responses to her in various videos, these deliberations included, that are likely elicited because of prejudices.

I personally wish she, or anyone arguing for Dream Daddy (Abby just seemed to be the strongest proponent of it), had made a better, or clearer case for it, precisely because it is such a niche genre, and yet a game that I could otherwise see myself enjoying. That might not appease some of the detractors who are upset at its inclusion, but the enthusiasm from the few staff members who championed it is a bit infectious.

@declanus45: That's absolutely not what I said, but I don't really have any interest in debating the topic.