Quick Look: Gran Turismo Sport

Bummer, I was hoping this would go in a more friendly direction, but they went the opposite way with it. Played an hour or two of the beta/demo decided it wasn't for me. I just don't know why a serious racing fan would play this instead of iRacing or Project Cars or why a more general racing fan would play it at all. Who is this for?

Crazzy people play Iracing not GT on a console.

So incredibly disappointed, even Driveclub has a better campaign than this. I understand why they focus on eSports, but what am I supposed to do if I feel like racing a fourth track today? Time trials? I would rather do sparrow racing.

Yikes, man, this seems like something you could never enjoy unless you play it with a racing wheel. I can't imagine ever being competitive if you're using a DS4.

@shottyb: Yeap you sound exactly like the target audience. Wish I could plop you down in the giant bomb set to answer their questions lol

Only people who are at an above average skill level in this sort of stuff and have played various racing games over the years (decades) understands how difficult it is to get good, close racing via the internet. If you are at that level, than the AI in just about everything will bore you, not unlike a pro fighting game player vs the CPU I imagine. So, a competitive racer seeks out equally skilled individuals to race against. It's all about that adrenaline rush. The sense that there are real stakes on the line (kinda like not "looking bad".. For some people it matters.) Even if it isn't a life or death situation.

I don't typically seek out that sort level of competition. I played some iRacing years ago and it's on another level in terms of the quality of competitive racing vs your run-of-the-mill racing games, but that's what it was built for. On the other hand, it's still using a pretty basic/ugly browser based UI I think? But anyway, my point is that I've had this experience so I understand where these competitive racers are coming from.

I just did one of my first races online in GT Sport. Set my qualifying time, wait 10 mins for the event (no big deal), and off I go. Even going into with a casual who-cares attitude, as soon as the presentation starts and it shows the grid cam, my heart was beating a mile a minute. It's exciting. My qualifying time put me on pole. I saw my name. I don't want to look like an idiot out there. The fool who overspeeds into the first corner and goes off. The race begins and your hands are sweaty, the room feels like its 20 degrees warmer somehow, I'm clenching the wheel when I know I shouldn't, my arm's aren't relaxed. My foot is tense and shaking as I carefully feather the throttle around a corner (you gotta turn Traction Control off of course.) You have to run strong and consistent laps. One little screw up and that could be it.

That's how it all plays out mentally for me. The actual race results were a little less dramatic. I just walked away with the lead and had a 9 second gap to 2nd place. I lapped the back markers on the last few corners lol Still, it was my first win and I snapped a screenshot. Thrilling. I just need to bump my ratings I guess.

They also like to talk about people needing to build crazy racing rigs and what not to be at this level. Not really. I just have a Logitech G29 I bought used and a basic wheel stand in front of my TV. My qualifying time is 1.5 sec off the world lead. I think I'm kinda average though.

Argh! You made me go on another passionate rambling.

@stoutlager I generally agree with you. Maybe it's because I actually have some knowledge of this stuff, or I guess they seem to have more light hearted fun with the standard sports games, where as something like this.. they act like only weirdo lunatics would play it lol I mean, they talk about pro fighting game stuff all the time and my eyes glaze over. It seems ridiculous to me, I don't play fighting games (except a little DoA) but I also don't fire them up and say its weird garbage.. I just admit out loud that I suck at fighting games and don't play them.

I know Jeff gets what this is doing on a more serious, less ha ha lets make jokes, level because he starts asking the right questions at the end. The question isn't necessarily about whether this game is any good as a GT game (because its a different thing), it's more about.. How does it compare to iRacing? Do the people who enjoy this type of thing think it's any good? How does it look as a baseline for the platform going forward? etc etc

I understand that games are great because there can be a wide variety of experiences for a wide variety of people but OH MY GOD, the presentation of the game is so far up its own ass it created a douche singularity so intense no asshole can escape.

These menus remind me of Gran Turismo 5 Prologue: they were unweildy to navigate and stripped directly from the pages of tacky fashion magazine you might find a the bottom of the pile in a doctor's office.... It's been almost 10 years and they haven't improved much.

This game seems like a disaster. It has so many ideas on how it wants people to play it, but it's barely able to express them, let alone teach players how to "not look bad"

Say what you want about Gran Turismo Sport, the game has NO microtransactions. That alone makes it better than Forza 7. I guess the best holiday season racing game in 2017 is Project Cars 2. With that said, I love how Drive Club has now been vindicated.

This whole thing is absolutely crazy but I kind of appreciate that they just fucking went for it. It is definitely different.

The menus and 00's lounge music are both lovely, but can I just have Metropolis Street Racer and Project Gotham Racing back? I just want to play Cat and Mouse and slam into other cars in a racing shell that was actually fun to play.

Those games let me appreciate motor sports in a way that fits someone like me that doesn't have much of an affinity for cars, this is such a shame.

u_u

The best part of this QL was when that TCQ song came on. Seriously though, this game looks cool but not cool enough to make me buy a ps4 (I have unintentionally become a PC only gamer this gen.) I loved doing the online races in GT5. This seems like that writ large.

I get that, for people who want to play a faithful, accurate racing game, Sportsmanship is important.

But MAN the devs went about that in CONPLETELY the wrong manner. Telling players, "Don't do this! And don't do that! And we are SOOOO going to fuck you over if you DARE do this, too!" all basically translates to, "Hey, we're going to TELL you how to enjoy this game. Experimentation and learning-as-you-go SHALL BE PUNISHED."

And somehow, not a single person on the dev team thought, "Hey, let's just make a 'Casual Mode' and hardcore 'Sportsman Mode'".

Me too! I've really been jonesing for a good racing game campaign, and nothing I've seen this year seems to scratch that itch. I really have no interest in racing real people, I like playing racing games to zone out and relax. Hopefully they quick look Project Cars 2 so we can see how that stacks up.

There's a good reason for having the races at scheduled times--if you concentrate the participation you can have more races where everyone's at a similar rating. e.g. if you're in the top 10% in skill and the races just start any time, on average you'll be better than 90% of the people in there (which will be boring), whereas with a scheduled time you can get all the good (or average, or bad) people in the same race.

I think the systems they put in here are pretty much required for clean online racing (outside of pre-organized leagues, etc.) So the main problem is the videos don't explain things well enough. iRacing has a similar but much more detailed set of tutorial videos (they're on YouTube under "iRacing Driving School"--you could just watch them and apply them here). But the whole series is over 60 minutes, which would probably draw another "this is too crazy serious" reaction.

Clean racing is much more intense and fun in the long term. I don't know why you would keep doing the "everyone crashes in T1" type of racing for very long. Maybe a couple times just to check it out, but I don't see wanting to go back to it on a regular basis like with other multiplayer games.

Racing is an unusual case where it's very dependent on the good behavior of people you're competing *against*. Most other games there isn't much your opponents can do to ruin the game for you.

Project CARS 2 also has the same basic system with a performance rating and a safety rating (although no scheduled races). I think it's good if this becomes a standard thing in racing sims. Even having some idea that you're trying to race clean is a good start, even if you don't know everything about how to do it yet.

Also none of these safety rating systems determine who's at fault in a collision (that would be too hard to do in software, especially when humans often don't agree on whose fault something was). They just apply the penalty to both cars. Might seem unfair but it does work out better than having nothing at all, because people get used to the general idea that they're trying to be clean. (In real racing you'd have to pay to repair your car no matter whose fault the collision was, etc.)

Another thing is, if you watched racing regularly on TV (not common in the US; more common in Europe), you'd already have a decent idea of how clean racing works--same way most people who play a football game would already know about pass interference, how the clock stops when you go out of bounds, or whatever other rules might not be obvious to someone who doesn't know anything about it.

Think I'll be getting Forza 7 then.

Also Patrick Dempsey has a documentary mini-series about his racing; here's the first episode:

https://vimeo.com/110420196

@zoofame: is Kojima secretly directing this game?

There is a casual mode, it is the lobby where you can find rooms to race against other people where your SR doesn't get effected (or any of the arcade AI stuff). But honestly, if you aren't looking to play clean this isn't the game for you anyways. And as someone who doesn't watch a single second of real-world racing but does occasionally enjoy racing games and really loves the idea of promoting people not being assholes in the race it really isn't that difficult to raise your sportsmanship. Just avoid the high-powered races (gr3-4) and then use common sense and some caution when you are driving.

Sure, you'll end up probably losing a few positions in the race to make sure your sportsmanship stays high/goes up but eventually (literally 2-3 clean races) you'll jump up to group B and start having much better races (though even the "default" C groups have been overall decent on the n/gr3 power races).

Look, there are a lot of rough corners and things I'd like to see addressed. But so far it's been a really great experience being able to race against other actual human beings (because let's face it, AI racing still is super boring) that don't act like 12 year olds at the amusement park playing bumper cars.

Who the fuck is actually buying this? As much as I dislike the loot crate system in Forza 7, that game is actually fun and easy to get into and play.

People who want to play a racing game where they can be challenged playing against other human beings w/o fear of getting trolled?

I mean I get all the hyperbole about how pretentious GT:S can come off as; but if we skip past the sarcasm it's pretty easy to see exactly what is going on here and exactly what GT is going on about.

It's actually a pretty good game. They're achieving what they're going for. It's unfortunate that Jeff doesn't like it, but that doesn't make the game bad. They've been selling this game as being focused more on online races for awhile now. The rest is just GT's typical overtly austere style.

I think the thought has already been expressed, and I have not watched the quick look yet, but I think this would have been better served as a different title, maybe with a "From the makers of Gran Turismo" byline, and more clearly advertised as to what it actually is. A quick glance at the Amazon rating and it seems like a LOT of people were expecting something quite different. I can respect what this game is trying to do, but it looks like it was sold under false pretenses with the Gran Turismo name attached. Or, it could have been a highly advertised additional mode of the game as a whole (but god knows how many more years of dev hell this would have faced if so).

Sure you're not talking about Forza 7? *rimshot* I simply got the vibe that I'm not "good enough" or "worthy enough" to play a game like this. Not that I'm offended; I just find it hilarious. This sounds crazy and new and I'm sort of glad they did it, but at the same time it should not have been a Gran Turismo game. Or they should have been 100% clear that it was a weird side thing that isn't what you normally expect from a Gran Turismo game.

Truly the Dark Souls of Gran Turismo games.

What is sportsmanship? Who is guest?

HOT SCAAAAPES

Forza 3 and 4 were probably the peak of the sim racing genre for me. This is not what I want out of GT. The best game in the series is still GT4.

This feels like a bit of a culture clash tbh. They don't 'get' it at all, it's like me playing a NBA or Madden game.

This is purely for race game fans from Europe it seems. Game is made for me, I never was into Gran Turismo, but the whole online racing experience where players are actually trying to pretend to be professional race drivers is a little dream come true.

Here's a review from Inside Sim Racing, if you want to see that perspective. They think that the online systems that Jeff and Brad find so weird are the best part, although they share a lot of the complaints about other aspects.

I've only played Gran Turismo 1, but man I played it a lot. It was driving, getting license, making money, buying new cars, getting new parts for cars, buying game magazines to read guides on tweaking the parts for max performance, then beating world records on the test track with my GTO Twin Turbo (the best car ever made).

Where did this pure and simple experience go?

Ghost adventures...

The free Scapes DLC is 10GB, just putting that out there. Ten gigabytes of scapes.

Man, this game is super weird and up itself in the way that only Gran Turismo can be. I kinda love it.

If we act like children online, that's how we're going to get treated. Overwatch is another recent game where they felt they had to spell out "don't be an arsehole".

This, so much this.

I bought this and was expecting something completely different. Had this had a byline of some kind or were more up front with what this was at least I would have known to look elsewhere. From the lineage of GT I was just expecting something at least barely resembling what the GT series has been for almost two decades. I just feel deceived.

Also if this is your jam, I hope you have a blast.

This feels like some add on you would have to a full Gran Turismo game, not the full package.

Well there you go, people who don't like their racing games to be fun and easy would buy this. Which apparently isn't you, which is totally fine.

I get not liking this or understanding it, but why are the guys such dismissive assholes making it seem only lunatics and weirdos would like this?

They understand high end fighting game competition and MOBAs and don't shit all over those experiences even though they aren't involved, but on this they turn into elitist dicks.

It's ok not to be into something, it's kinda not cool to shit on other people FOR being into it.

I actually like the menus and all of the pomp and circumstance and Encarta 98' about them. I enjoyed my time with the demo immensely. However, this misses the mark for what I'm looking for in one of these games.

For me I always loved buying an old ford escort or honda civic or volvo wagon and bolting a bunch of shit onto it to get to 600hp and take it up against sports cars.

Gran Turismo and Forza are both really missing the mark for this stuff right now.

No Clubman Cup, no sale

@incandenza137: oh man inside sim racing is still going? I thought they all fell out and went their separate ways.

Also I am one of the people this game speaks to, but I also like iracing so I guess I'm a lunatic.

I guess Gran Turismo: Hot Mess was a little too on the nose?

Both preeminent racing games this year have disappointed me with the presentation and approach, and I have always loved both series. They seem to have been taking themselves much too seriously, and alienated themselves from the main point, which is, this is gaming.

Oh well, back to Forza 3 and Burnout Paradise for me.

We need to talk about the Lewis Hamilton channel.

In years to come, humans will learn that 2017 was the year that Lewis won his 65th pole position and was one click away from something truly terrifying.

I'm entirely with Jeff on what's (traditionally) appealing about games like GT and Forza, just I was made aware this game was not going to be about that as the game's marketing advanced. So mine's been a gradual, dispersed disappointment.

But the bewilderment at specific absurdities about this game is fresh and exciting. Although the Encarta screensaver is probably the only positive one.

What I suppose is good about this game for people like us, is that they have made advancements in areas that will matter for GT7 in 2021; AI, sound effects, scapes.

This actually looks like a nice option for people who want to sit down a few times a week for some easy-in competitive sim racing. The sportsmanship stuff isn't perfect but I can clearly see what kind of behaviour the game is trying to encourage; in sim racing there are plenty of more subtle ways to be an asshole than to just drive around the track backwards.

Jeff seems so confused about the ghost cars and not knowing when he should avoid them. It looks to me like the ghosting happens when the game suspects a car is about to cause carnage on the track and unfairly hamper other players, but for the purposes of racing etiquette you should always treat them as if they are solid and take avoiding action.

A couple of people have mentioned that you can be the car in front and still be at fault for a collision; one of the most clearcut examples of this is "brake testing" a driver, when the car in front brakes sharply at an unexpected moment to test the nerve and reflexes of a driver following close behind them.

I don't get all the hate. At least the cars are not some lootbox afterthought.

I'm not even into sim style racing games and this seems pretty amazing. Kudos to them for the sportsmanship videos, interesting way to try and combat toxic players right from the jump. I look forward to seeing where this is at a few months from now, seems like it has lots of room to grow.

It's strange that Brad and Jeff didn't mention iRacing in this quick look, because that's definitly what this looks like. I'm sure that they were on a bombcast or two where Drew mentioned iRacing, so that's wierd. I wonder how the two compare critically.

Would not the designation Sport, in retrospect, mean they see this game about eSports, so not so much a focus on high end cars? Is ist possible that Sony/Polyphony were not expressing clearly what they were trying to describe by "Sport"?

In that is the case they really are setting themselves up for failure. If from the start they said, "We are trying to make an offshoot SPECIFICALLY for eSport racing game enthusiasts" that might have made this game make more sense. It would even explain the always online aspect.

If they really mean this game to be for a subset of gamers, that would make so much more sense right? This is not Gran Turismo [the next one]....this is literally Gran Turismo Sport.

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If you were hoping to play GT this year? Well, your PS3 is in the closest; so go pull it out and buy a copy of GT6. Harsh? Nope, it just the simple truth and your only option.

This is hands down the biggest disappointment of 2017 for me, they made this solely for people who like online competitive "real" racing, there is nothing here for anyone who wants a career mode and to just fuck around with souped up cars, how this is full price is just a mystery for me.

It is kinda cool that they made this insane hardcore thing for people who are really serious about their racing, but who not add something for those who are just looking for a traditional racing game.

Hopefully we don't have to wait another 4 years for the real gran turismo 7 to come out.

Really odd how the general consensus here is "Why didn't you make another Gran Turismo" when people have been complaining since 5 about GT being the same. I also love the rose tinted glasses people put on when remembering GT's career mode when anyone who's played a decent amount of it can tell you it is by far the most trivial and grindy thing ever conceived. You pick a super over powered car and you lap the field over and over again so you can build up money (and please don't get me started on the "endurance" events). It was by far the weakest part of Gran Turismo and I'm thrilled they did away with it- it was simply a barrier to to the experiences I wanted to get to.

Then there's people mad about the game punishing you for playing Destruction Derby in the ranked matches. I see comments like this and it makes me appreciate the game even more- I'm happy to have people who think it's their right to race dirty stick with the other games (which I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft pole- I'm looking at you, Forza online races).

This is a game for people who actually give a shit about the actual act of motorsport and I love it for that.

Wow that sportsmanship video series is actually insane.

If a MOBA game hasn't done such a series then no other games should.

"Here's how you MOBA so you don't look bad.

- only hit the creep at the last possible moment so you can get the gold so you don't look bad

- always spend your gold before you die so you don't look bad

- don't ever feed the other team or you would look real real bad

...

Failure to comply could result in disciplinary actions as you've agreed to in the EULA."

Finally, Gran Turismo has turned from a "game" into a "job". Like, for car fanatics I can understand that some people might find the appeal, but I can imagine that isn't a very big audience.