Epic Games Wins Lawsuit With Silicon Knights [UPDATED]

I'm glad I was sitting down when I was hit with these Hot Scoopz about lunch.

With Silicon Knights pretty much done for, maybe they will sell the Too Human IP to Microsoft for cheap? Or EA? Or the Canadian government? Anyone? Bueller?

I'd honestly like to see the "Trilogy" finished by some other guys whose leader hasn't crawled up his own ass. I say that as someone who loved Eternal Darkness and got enjoyment out of the first Too Human when it finally came out. But Dyack, great as he once was, seems to be turning into the Axl Rose of game design. Paranoid, combative, inflexible, out-of-touch. It's a bummer, he was once awesome.

Man, that's some lunch.

@Robopengy said:

Epic should show a little compassion and not demand that they be payed

World don't work like that.

@mmgreenmms said:

Only tipped $10 on a $142 bill?! What an asshole.

Why would you tip on take away? It's likely that was a mandatory gratuity charge and not the gopher's token tip.

Thanks to @MrKlorox and @Brackynews for the link!

Also, OUCH. That's a hefty sum SK has to pay out. Don't sue unless you know you're going to win, kids.

Silicon Knights has to pay $4.45 million... Ouch! Do they even have that kind of money? If they don't what does this mean for the studio?

Epic should show a little compassion and not demand that they be payed

@mmgreenmms said:

Only tipped $10 on a $142 bill?! What an asshole.

That's like a normal tip for a takeout order. It's not like the jury went out to eat in the actual restaurant.

@mmgreenmms said:

Only tipped $10 on a $142 bill?! What an asshole.

That's like a normal tip for a takeout order. It's not like the jury went out to eat in the actual restaurant.

having had to order food for large groups of people I can tell you that $100 goes nowhere near as far as you think it would.

Hot scoops

Now I'll never see Too Human 2 T_T

They got wasted on those meals

Why the fuck was one meal $50 more than the other? How'd that happen all of a sudden?

These are the real questions.

Now THAT'S investigative journalism. Jury's lunches!!!

Only tipped $10 on a $142 bill?!  What an asshole.

Well, that's the end of Denis Dyack. For a brief period he looked like a video game luminary, and then he got exposed as a blowhard and a fantastic whiner.

Considering all the provincial government funding Silicon Knights recently lost, this is just another big financial blow. I have to wonder how long the studio will last.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about this.

RIP Silicon Knights

Hey Epic, can you steal the rights for Eternal Darkness away from Silcon Knights when they can't pay the money? A new game for that series by you guys would be nice.

Wait a minute, quite the disparity in the lunch prices there... I think we have another E3 mystery! Why were they able to get lunch for a mere $99 one day, but the price increased to $150 only one day later?

I smell funny business!

Hot scoops! But for real, interesting stuff...

" In addition to simply "winning" the lawsuit, Epic Games has been awarded damages totaling $4.45 million."

Well, that's the end of Silicon Knights, then.

@MacEG said:

@GERALTITUDE said:

Companies DO want to license their engines, they DO NOT want their licensees to be as successful as they are. Which is fine! But it creates lots and lots and lots of gray area to be abused.

That doesn't make much sense. The more successful a company is that uses Unreal (read: $), the more money Epic makes from the residuals.

http://udk.com/licensing

It makes sense if you consider what Epic's game is really: a marketing platform. While it is in the best interest of Epic to support the companies already utilizing their product to make the most of of out; it is equally as importance to maximize conversion of new developers. You want your flagship to look bigger and better than everything else. You even want it to stand out from the sea of other games using the same product. You want it to scream: "THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH ALL THIS POWER."

The desire to get more converts could lead to some less than honorable activities. Activities like withholding vital performance upgrades to give your showcase the edge.

@TadThuggish said:

Ten bucks says Denis Dyack is challening NeoGAF board members to real-life fights, at this very moment.

I don't want to take the bet, I just hope that this is happening.

@DukeOfStress said:

@onan: If that were the case, crayola would also be making bucket-loads of cash as each kid using crayola crayons has to pay a licensing fee just to make a picture :)

And Fisher Price would make a killing on the buckets.

Despite them making one game worth knowing about, I kind of don't like these guys. They seem to blame other people for their failures a lot.

Bite the bullet and take responsibility for your losses.

@Sweep said:

Denis Dyack can't seem to catch a break, huh?

I think most people think Denis makes his own problems.. Most industry people seem to roll their eyes when they talk about him. He is the quintessential "Who the hell needs a baby when this bath water is so dirty" type of guy. Oh, people like when he talks because you see the train wreck twisting down the track behind him, but he really adds little to any discussion of gaming or the industry.

@tsigo said:

I'm no lawyer, but my arguments for Epic would have consisted of listing out every game using the Unreal engine that released successfully, and then maybe calling SK a bunch of whiners.

I was thinking the same thing, every other game this generation is running that engine and we haven't heard any other horror stories about it.

I'd like to know if Epic actively went about sabotaging their development, or if Dyack is just pissed that they didn't want to help him make their game. 'Cause really, Epic's not beholden to any other Unreal Engine games so why would Silicon Knights be any different?

@GERALTITUDE said:

Companies DO want to license their engines, they DO NOT want their licensees to be as successful as they are. Which is fine! But it creates lots and lots and lots of gray area to be abused.

That doesn't make much sense. The more successful a company is that uses Unreal (read: $), the more money Epic makes from the residuals.

http://udk.com/licensing

I'd hate to see what the court fees would do to Silicon Knights, them already being in the red from you know, releasing crap.

I'm disappointed that this wasn't a prolonged case, and that it wasn't televised. I want to see Dyack get on the stand and talk.

About anything. That guy is super entertaining. It's like anytime they interview Charles Manson, I can't look away.

@onan: If that were the case, crayola would also be making bucket-loads of cash as each kid using crayola crayons has to pay a licensing fee just to make a picture :)

I liked this game dammit. Dual pistols that shot glass.

Just play it exclusively co-op and it cuts out all the horrible story. Techno-Viking Diablo.

Patrick you da man but sometimes you make go aaaarrggh!!

Silcon Knights was NOT, "In essence [...] upset Epic Games was spending its time perfecting its own games (and thus, its own engine) rather than spending all its time helping out those who licensed its engine." As you quoted just previous to this statement the issue was in "intentionally and wrongfully using the fees".

When you license an engine you pay fees (often recurring) for support, "patches," etc. Sounds like SK were in the wrong here but this is actually such a huge problem in IT everywhere. Companies DO want to license their engines, they DO NOT want their licensees to be as successful as they are. Which is fine! But it creates lots and lots and lots of gray area to be abused.

I'm not surprised - TONS of studios licensed Unreal 3 this generation, and yet Silicon Knights were the only ones to have problems and complain about it. I was pretty sure Epic was in the right here, when no one else complains. But man, SK...this CANNOT be good for them.

They should've gone running back to Nintendo and make a sequel to Eternal Darkness after Too Human. Make a game guaranteed to sell, get back on stable ground. They have to be in a shaky place now, after Too Human, X-Men and now this. Ugh.

so that's what it comes down too? you make a shitty game now-a-days so you blame and sue the creators of the engine you used? dumbshits.

@PXAbstraction:

Well the makers of too human is right how can you sell a product thats not finished. Epic sells unreal tech that they havent finished yet. what are the developers to do? They shouldnt be able to sell their product if its not done yet. The better question is why the hell is epic selling a unfinished product in the first place. Thats what really pissed denis off. Hes trying to make a game and they are selling him broken crap thats not finished and broken. And given the Xbox 360 crazy certification methods and making developers use directx. He really couldnt make his game because epic left him out to dry for so long.

I do believe the first masseffect isnt a true unreal game. The developer had to add its own tech into the unreal engine to fix some of the short commings. That kind of defeats the purpose of buying a engine.

Denis Dyack can't seem to catch a break, huh?

@fustacluck: Need more coffee, somehow got the games done by Silicon Knights mixed with Crystal Dynamics. Agreed with you on Crystal Dynamics getting a good team together for today's games though wondering about how well the new Tomb Raider game will go once it's out.

@PiltdownMan said:

I just want Eternal Darkness 2.

I do too, but how do we know that SK would make a good Eternal Darkness 2? A lot has changed in 10 years...

@allworkandlowpay said:

@JeanLuc said:

I can't claim to know the full story but I have to side with Epic here. They put out the engine for use and then started making a game with it, None of that I find very bad. Just because Silicon Knights couldn't figure out the engine isn't a reason to sue. Just don't use Epic's engines anymore if you have a problem with it.

I think, and I'm not positive on this so don't quote me, Silicon's Knights claim was that Epic was holding back an integral update to the engine that resolved many of the early issues with the engine, while quietly using that updated engine to make their own game first. Silicon Knights was claiming that they did this with the intent to make other Unreal engine games look inferior to Epics own game.

According to Silicon Knights at least, there was part of the contract of usage for the engine that stated there would be timely and non-preferential release of any updates to the engine as made available. Epic allegedly breached that contract, which Silicon Knights claims led to their failure of the project.

They are probably right, partially, about Epic's misuse of their engine improvements. The problem is proving it. Silicon Knights failed to do so, the case was practically shut month ago.

Exactly. I don't think that Dyack wouldn't have a case, but he clearly needs better evidence.

This is a decidedly non-gansta end to the tale. If Dyack wants to bring that shit, let's bring that shit!

So that seemed pretty fast and straightforward.

@tsigo: Whaddya talkin about? That's exactly the kind of dick move Matlock is known for. ;)

@Godak: Once the court dockets are made public, I expect you can locate them here: gamepolitics.com/category/court-cases Lots of contracts get unsealed, it just depends on the context. Even if the full contract is not included, there's a possibility someone could make a successful freedom of information request for all case documents.

Ten bucks says Denis Dyack is challening NeoGAF board members to real-life fights, at this very moment.

I imagine an appeal is probably in the process, but this does not bode well for Silicon Knights. They've been in rough waters for awhile now, and the cost of this court case and it's loss might just be the thing that sinks them.

I just want Eternal Darkness 2.

Your Honour, I am a lawyer ... and that looks fucked up. Defense Rests.