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The Collusion of Money, Drama, And Pride

With a scene that's bigger than ever, how the fighting game community's biggest organizers are trying to break its players of some bad habits and grow up.

Several important elements of the fighting game community came together last week to announce a sweeping change to many of the most popular tournaments in the scene. Collusion, in this case defined as two or more players agreeing to purposely manipulate a match or intentionally underperform, would no longer be tolerated. Those involved would forfeit prize and title.

EVO has continued to grow, gaining sponsors and thousands of worldwide fans along the way. It is far from its old niche.
EVO has continued to grow, gaining sponsors and thousands of worldwide fans along the way. It is far from its old niche.

“Competitive spirit is the lifeblood of the fighting game community,” announced EVO founder Tom “Inkblot” Cannon on his popular fighting game website Shoryuken. “Unfortunately, this year we have seen a few incidents where players intentionally underperformed, usually in the final matches of a tournament. This behavior is unacceptable, and it must end.”

The Shoryuken element is key to this, as well. If tournaments refuse to adopt the collusion rule, Shoryuken and EventHubs, another popular destination for fighting discussion, have declared they will not cover the tournament in question. The rule change has the backing of many major tournaments already, and common tournament sponsor and accessory maker Mad Catz.

It’s a sweeping change, and one that’s prompted heated discussion from within the community. Cannon was expecting this, but he has good evidence for why everyone should get behind the rule change: EVO has been operating with the very same rule since an incident back in 2004.

EVO 2004 is mostly remembered for Daigo Umehara’s unbelievable full parry of Justin Wong. But it’s also where the finalists in the event’s Soulcalibur II tournament, Rob “RTD” Combs and Marquette “Mick” Yarbrough, were widely believed to have decided their final match wasn't worth playing seriously. Combs and Yarbrough were friends, a common thread during these moments. Coverage of fighting game tournaments wasn't as prevalent in 2004 as it is now, but surprisingly enough, Games Across America (GSN) covered exactly what happened at 50 seconds into the clip below.

"GSN: I hear there was some controversy, they thought maybe you guys were faking it.

Combs: We did pick characters that we were good with, and we played it out.

Yarbrough: We fought, we actually fought. [...] We the most dominant team around, you know? Can’t nobody stop us."

Following this match, EVO instituted the collusion rule now populating to other tournaments. No action was taken against Combs or Yarbrough, however.

“We didn't want to come down on them after the fact because they didn't break any rules, even though they broke the spirit of the tournament,” said Cannon to me recently. “We were like ‘fine, this happened, let's make sure this is never gonna happen again.’ We did that a while ago, and it's worked out great for us.”

Since then, Cannon said EVO has experienced nothing else like what happened at the end of the Soulcalibur 2 tournament. Once players know the rules, he told me, they tend to shape up.

What Cannon and others are hoping to clamp down on can be a little confusing to understand. It’s not about pot splitting, in which several players agree to divvy up the tournament money to one another. Pot splitting is not unique to the fighting game community, and though it impacts the game, it’s difficult to imagine a scenario where it could reasonably be eliminated.

“You really can't stop somebody from splitting a pot,” said David “UltraDavid” Graham, a former player, commentator, and, during the day, a lawyer with his own practice. “I think it makes too much economic sense, unless you really think you are, by far, the best player, and you're going to dominate. Or you don't like the player you're playing against. Otherwise, you might as well just split. Why take the risk that you don't earn money?”

“That's [pot splitting is] not the concern at all,” said Cannon. “It's impossible to stop because once the money is in their hands, they could just split it later, if they didn't split it on-site.”

But it’s impossible to talk about the collusion rule without considering pot splitting, either. The two are often but not always linked, as friends or allies decide to divide the tournament money. If one's money is now more or less guaranteed, there's far less incentive to be performing at the top of your game. Pot splitting happens behind-the-scenes, and there’s no way to prove it.

That is, unless you admit you were an active participant.

A snapshot from an old TechTV segment on the B4 tournament in San Jose, California. You might notice a familiar face.
A snapshot from an old TechTV segment on the B4 tournament in San Jose, California. You might notice a familiar face.

“I've witnessed it,” said longtime player Jay “Viscant” Snyder. “Heck, I've taken part in it. We all have. That's how the FGC used to work.”

Snyder was a champion at EVO 2011, taking the ultimate prize for Marvel vs. Capcom 3 with his combination of Albert Wesker, Mike Haggar, and Phoenix. Snyder has been a part of the fighting game community for a long time, and remembers a specific story from more than 10 years ago.

There was a tournament in Phoenix, Arizona during the heyday of Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and a number of San Diego, California-based players were invited. When Snyder and his crew arrived, they discovered Peter “ComboFiend” Rosas and his squad, known as R.U.N., were there, too. Previous tournament results, lingering bad feelings, and webcam girls (“no joke!”) simmered.

“We decided that they weren't going to get a dime out of the tournament,” said Snyder.

During the semi-finals, Long “ShadyK” Tran, Tong "Genghis" Ho, and Snyder were still in the winners bracket, while Rosas had drifted into the losers bracket. Feeling confident, Snyder’s crew decided Snyder would purposely throw matches to place himself in the losers bracket. The plan went off without a hitch, and Snyder managed to deny Rosas from winning anything at all.

“The top three placers were Genghis, myself and ShadyK--in that order,” said Snyder. “We split the money on the spot and didn't really hide what we were doing. It should be noted that this was the last time I'd beat ComboFiend [Rosas] in ANYTHING (Marvel 2, Marvel 3, SF4, 3s, ST, A3, coin flipping, RPS, credit card roulette, Candy Land). Karma is not without a sense of humor.”

Snyder said he was not alone, and this was common practice in the earlier days of the fighting game community, and not necessarily frowned upon.

“That's how things were done,” he said. “People from out of town come to your arcade? They're not winning, we'll protect the house somehow or someway. That's just how it was.”

That was more than a decade ago, though. Much has changed, including Snyder.

“Back then these were 40-man tournaments with no streams, no sponsors and a handful of spectators,” he said. “We want the FGC to be more than that now. We want to be attractive to sponsors. We want our streams to be watched and appreciated. We want people to turn on an FGC stream for the first time and get hooked by the great matches they're seeing, not turned off by players throwing games. Maybe things were OK the way they were back then (they weren't) but we all have to grow up a little. If we truly want the FGC to grow and be on the level of other eSports then we have to clean up our collective act and making a hard and firm stance against collusion, and match fixing is a good start.”

"I've witnessed it. Heck, I've taken part in it. We all have. That's how the FGC used to work. [...] Maybe things were OK the way they were back then (they weren't) but we all have to grow up a little."

What can be reasonably proved is whether or not top-tier players are, for whatever reason, purposely playing terribly.

“The entire point of a tournament is to determine the best player, and mathematically, the only thing a double-elimination tournament format guarantees is the top two players,” said former Capcom strategic marketing director of online and community Seth Killian. “Nobody is forcing you to play your best at all times in your life, but if you show up to a tournament that the organizer and lots of other players have put a lot of resources into, and the whole point of a tournament is to show who is best, then playing by those rules seems pretty straightforward.”

Killian, a longtime member of the fighting game community, was both a known spokesperson and a large internal influence on Capcom’s modern fighting games. He left the company in 2012 to take a lead design role at Sony Santa Monica, but continues to remain close to his roots and applauded the decision to expand EVO's anti-collusion measures to a wider audience.

“This has already been a rule at by far the biggest tournament in the world, for many, many years,” he said. “Anyone can invent all kinds of imaginary situations where it goes bad, is terribly enforced, etc, but instead there's the decade of reality: it works just fine. There has been no "new world order," and there has been no shortage of surprising character picks, counter-picks, etc. Every competitive activity from boxing to football has people making judgment calls, and of course those games would be a mess with terrible officiating too. There's less of this in video games because so many rules are built into code, but where it exists in the FGC it has worked just fine, with lots of truly incredible matches.”

“Just because they pot split doesn't mean they don't have to not play the match seriously,” said Graham. “When I played, I split pots. I did it. But I never gave up the match, you know? I never let my opponent give up the match. I don't think I considered it at the time, actually.”

Again, a big reason the collusion rule has come into vogue in 2013 was a series of closely watched finals matches. Coincidentally, they all involve Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, and each had the quality of the fights called into question. These incidents were pointed out and described to me by members in the community.

Back in late March, Loren “Fanatiq” Riley and Christopher “ChrisG” Gonzalez squared off against one another at the Final Round tournament in Atlanta, Georgia. Riley is seen using an unusual set of characters--often a red flag--and intentionally bailing out of combos several times.

In this case, the intention of the player was obvious, and Riley, part of Team AGE, apologized.

“A lot of people questioned whether or not it was thrown or whatever,” he said in a YouTube video. “I intentionally made it very obvious that it was a throw, and it wasn’t, again, an attempt to spit in the face of any organizers or anything like that. It was my own protest, and, obviously, anyone protesting in any kind of circumstance is going to be open to attack, and I understand why certain people were offended. I thought by me playing the match in the way I did, by actually trying to get the hits before deciding to throw the match, I’d give the people what they wanted as far of them seeing the ways to open up Morrigan, the ways to get the hits on ChrisG’s team, the ways to open up ChrisG in general. Unfortunately, by me doing that, once I got the hits, they wanted to see the actual K.O., and that was something I was unwilling to do there. I’ve learned from that mistake, and what I’ve learned is that any circumstances where I feel that I don’t want to play a match, if I feel things are unfair, if I feel the seeding was inappropriate or things of that nature, the obvious best response to that situation is just to withdraw from the tournament.”

Then, in April, there was the Grand Finals at the Texas Showdown event, pitting the ever present Justin Wong against Gonzalez. If you skip to the end, you’ll notice the two are seen picking random characters and generally goofing around, both traits contrary to their known talents.

You don’t have to go far to see diehard fans criticizing the level of play on display.

The need for a stricter set of rules was highlighted just days before the collusion rule expansion was announced. At the Video X Games competition in the Caribbean in late July, ChrisG and Job "Flocker" Figueroa found themselves squaring off. Many observers, including Mad Catz community and sponsorship manager Mark “MarkMan” Julio, criticized the players, accusing them of playing with goofball teams, including the notoriously disdained Phoenix Wright.

In these cases and others, the players largely never admit to collusion, pot splitting, or intentionally screwing up the tournament, but it’s obvious even to laymen. The question facing the community--players, sponsors, organizers, commentators, viewers--is what to do about it. Cannon’s already admitted there’s no way to regulate pot splitting, so what’s happening?

Those in the community favoring the rule change said it was solely about ensuring everyone is having a good time. Some players have criticized the collusion rule as easily exploitable, and as gamers, they’ll easily find a way to break the system. Cannon welcomed these challenges, and compared players looking to sneak a fast one to sports players caught flopping. Flopping is when a player intentionally exaggerates physical contact with another player in hopes of drawing a foul. It’s hard to pull off and the referees don’t always catch it, but someone who’s exceptionally good at flopping is also exceptionally good at making it seem real.

“The rule is really designed to stop the matches at the end of the tournament from becoming a complete joke,” said Cannon. “I'm also equally sure there have probably been times where, late in the tournament, you had two friends playing each other, and in their heart of hearts, they were not playing their absolutely hardest because they know what's going to happen. But they at least played well enough that it was a legitimate match. That's all we're trying to do.”

No Caption Provided

More importantly, what Cannon and others hope to clamp down on are shenanigans in the final moments of a tournament, the high-stakes moments that people wait around all day and night for. There was an unspoken commitment to organizers and fans, and now it’s written down and has consequences.

“We’re only going to invoke the rule when there is an obvious flop in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter,” he said.

Cannon acknowledged some legitimate concerns from players. What happens if players want to experiment? What happens if someone is picking a strange lineup to keep cards close to the chest, and not blow a secret technique? What if people just want to have a little bit of fun?

Snyder had a perfect example. At the Oceanside Fight Club tournament in San Diego this past weekend, he was pitted against Connor “PermaVermin” O'Neill, a notoriously difficult player who often employs strange teams. Snyder added Dormammu from Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 to his lineup, a tournament first and an unexpected move. Remember, this would usually constitute a red flag for possible collusion. The commentators were confused during the match, publicly wondering why Snyder went with Dormammu.

“Because I was winning they thought that perhaps I was showing off,” he said. “The ‘c-word’ even got floated out there during the set.”

Since he won all three rounds, though, nothing came of it.

What happened? Snyder showed up early to the tournament, and was playing casually with O'Neill. None of Snyder’s usual tactics were getting him anywhere, so he randomly picked Dormammu. Bingo. O'Neill was thrown off his game, and Snyder kept this in mind for later.

“It's only because I won the set that this pick doesn't look fishy,” said Snyder. “ [...] What if instead of winning 3-0, I lost 3-0? People would be able to point to those mistakes to say that I didn't know what I was doing with that character and that I threw the set. The intent and reason for picking that character and that team would have been the same either way; good results made me look smart whereas bad results would have made me look like a match fixer.”

Even with this in mind, Snyder thinks the rule is right, just one that should be exercised with caution. Good intentions often have unexpected consequences, and you can’t control everything. It is, in the end, subjective.

One possible wrinkle comes from international tournaments, which Cannon and others have less control over. Everyone I spoke to assumed the the world would follow their lead, not wanting to be left behind. One place it won’t have any impact, though, is competitive play in Japan, as there no money prizes for legal reasons.

“The only thing to play for is, in Japan, is for pride,” said Cannon.

If Cannon and others gets their way, that’ll be a big reason the rest of the world plays, too.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

163 Comments

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rlhyeung

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Just read the article now, finally, and a really good job Patrick! I look forward to more articles like this :D

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yukoasho

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@kazona said:

If you really want to get rid of match fixing and pot splitting then you need to do away with monetary prizes altogether. At that point pride really is the only motivation and that is not something you can fix or split.

I think you'd still see match fixing, if only to cockblock outsiders, like the example Snyder gives.

If the FGC is truly serious about getting rid of collusion, they should end double elimination tourneys in addition to the judgement calls talked about here. There's going to be far, far fewer chances for politics when you're playing a best of seven single-elim tourney as opposed to a best of five double-elim. Who wants to throw their one shot, right?

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Cubical

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Edited By Cubical

I went to evo once this year and I thought the people there was nut jobs and I could care less about watching them play old fighting games. I went there to see some new games being shown on the floor and to buy or get some free crap they was giving out.

I could care less about the so called small community they got going just the games.

in fact I think these small group of people are having a overall huge negative impact on fighting games period when they get made since they all come out as fucking clones for this small group of nut jobs that sit around playing the same crap all day and counting frame or what ever they do and whine about so called balance they think exist in these games.

and they just turn new casual people off the fighting game scene I know some people that won't touch fighting games anymore because they saw some of these guys and now they think all fighting games are made for them. (this is true since they bitch and whine about the game enough they are starting to make them for this small group of people.)

They are keeping fighting games from growing and doing anything new in this space or evolving in anyway they are all just capcom japanese street fighter clones now. mortal kombat is one of the few I see not follow this trend so close in the last few years. they just pump out the clones to keep this so called balance for these evo nuts the devs won't do anything else. Pretty much Same old 6 button arcade stick crap going on since 1991.

and even mortal kombat people think it's to hard core (it's not)

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29221/Mortal_Kombats_Boon_Hardcore_Reputation_Hinders_Sales_In_Fighting_Game_Genre.php

also all the clones is not helping capcom sell any more of these games anymore they helped keep the market flooded with pretty much the same games over and over and they are not selling . Same deal they did when fighting games took a dive and went under the last time.

Never going again not worth the 6 hour car trip or the travel cost or any other cost.

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Kazona

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If you really want to get rid of match fixing and pot splitting then you need to do away with monetary prizes altogether. At that point pride really is the only motivation and that is not something you can fix or split.

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WilliamRLBaker

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Hmmm quite sickening...I do wish that any person that admits to ever taking part in this gets banned completely from all the circuits.

I call BS bububbu we want it to change, no you want to keep money around just like you wanted to keep money and hamper someone else's ability to gain money because of stupid crap surrounding a video game that pissed you off, You are a horrible cyber sportsman and should be banned for life.

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MeganeAgain

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Edited By MeganeAgain
Loading Video...

CALL SPOOKY

Sorry, I just had to post that.

Anyway, this is great read. I'd love to see more articles on the FGC, or competitive gaming in general. This article was very well done.

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marblecmoney

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Interesting read, Patrick.

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geekbot

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Awesome article Patrick! Really makes me want to get into the fighting game scene. I'll have check out EVO next year. Keep 'em coming!

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Edited By Cyrix

@jokersmilez:

I don't think your point about revealing new strategies really follows, especially when talking about guys at the level of ChirsG or J.Wong.

Lets go with your example and say Chris has some new way of shutting down Justin's team that he doesn't want to reveal at some low level tournament.

Here is the easy and obvious solution, he just doesn't use it... if he just plays Justin like he would have before discovering the new tech and at the best of his ability, no one will question he played 100%. Chris will know he didn't but that doesn't matter, he will have played by the rules of the tournament all while holding his cards for later.

No one can make a claim that he didn't use a strategy no one knows about yet.

The rules are only about collusion not destroying the metagame.

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deactivated-5914f5c50a1c5

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COLLUSION!

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chose

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Edited By chose

I don't understand why people would not try to beat their opponent and finish first even if they split the pot. Someone still has to win, why joke around? If I'd play against my best friend, we'll split, but I'd sure try to beat him. I thought those people were competitors.

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Hagane

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Doesn't Fanatiq realize that he's a really bad liar, and that people can easily see through his bullshit excuses?

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JokerSmilez

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Cool FGC article Patrick. Hope to see more on the site.

I feel like colluding matches and pot splitting are totally two different things. It's okay to pot split; what you do with your money is none of my business. But if you're in grand finals, be competitive and try to play your best.

Besides, if you're going to pot split, why not try to beat the other player at the same time? Whatever happened to competitive spirit and trying to prove that you're the best? That part still boggles my mind.

There are all kinds of reasons to not try your hardest to win once you're in the finals, especially if you and your opponent have decided to pot split (which I have no problem with considering most players are just dudes trying to grind out a living playing video games for as long as they can so guaranteeing yourself a payout at the end of a weekend is fine by me).

Say for example, it's a weekly tournament (like Wednesday Night Fights, a weekly tournament held in the LA area) and it's the week before So-Cal Regionals. The 2 finalists may not want to pull out all the stops or show their best stuff to try and win a weekly tournament when there's a much bigger one right around the corner that they want to save their best stuff for.

I have no doubt this rule works great in Evo because Evo is the biggest tournament of the year, there's no longer a reason to hold back.

Let's take a ChrisG vs. Justin Wong example. Justin Wong believes he can beat ChrisG's team but knows if he does everything he can to beat him, he'll tip his hand to his techniques, allowing Chris the opportunity to train and prepare for those techniques should they meet in an upcoming (and bigger, more important) tournament. ChrisG on the other hand is thinking exactly the same thing, that he knows how to deal with Justin's team in a way that other players haven't thought of but he doesn't want to tip his hand early either, winning a minor tournament but risking a shot at a bigger one by showing too much of his techniques that Justin or another player can prepare for.

Basically, in this scenario you're forcing both players to either show their hand early which is stupid because players should be allowed to do whatever they have to do to give themselves the best competitive advantage (such as not trying their hardest to win a minor tournament if they believe that doing so could hurt their chances at a bigger tournament down the road), or you're forcing players to make it look like they're trying their hardest when in reality they're just pretending by taking it safe, doing nothing out of the ordinary, still not really trying to win but masking it better for the sake of audience. To me, I don't see much difference. As a spectator, I would be more entertained by them picking a random character and goofing around and having fun than players "going through the motions" and not caring about the result. To me, that results in a more boring match to watch.

Ideally, players would always bring their 'A' game and always trying their hardest to win every match, but in reality that's just not a very good winning strategy if a player has their mind set on a the big stage, like Evo. Collusion is not nearly as much of a problem at a big tournament like that because the stakes are so much higher that it practically handles itself. Collusion does become a problem at small tournaments because it's just not worth it most of the time for players to do everything to win because it can actually put them at a disadvantage when it comes to a bigger and more important tournament, when there is a lot more prize money and pride at stake.

It's a difficult problem to solve though because the two parties involved (players and tournament organizers) are sometimes at odds. Tournament organizers want the most competitive matches possible while sometimes players don't for the reasons stated above. Like I said, it's not typically an issue at big tournaments, it's the smaller ones where it becomes an issue.

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nerdmotron

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Great article Patrick. I love to see fighting games and the fighting game scene written/talked about on Giantbomb.

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megalowho

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Great read, had not been following this story. It's a problem with competition on every level, from Olympic badminton to video games. The flopping comparison is apt, we all know it when we see it yet when done well it's not always easy to prove. Sounds like those with power in the FGC are taking the necessary steps to ensure their product is as honest as possible, interesting quotes and opinions from a number of folks in here.

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alwaysbebombing

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@deadfish said:

@alehud42 said:

*waits for WWE 2013 'COLLUSION' joke*

Collusion! *gets hit by a car*

Also Patrick should be writing for the New York Times or something. He is just the kind of person that Journalists should aspire to be.

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Foggen

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Good article, but the headline really bothers me.

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Ravenlock

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Fighting games aren't really my thing, but this article is fascinating. Damn fine work. Bravo.

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@vargasprime said:

So, as someone unfamiliar with the FGC in general, ChrisG seems to be coming up in a lot of these examples.

Is he specifically notorious for this kind of thing? Or is he just unfortunately featured heavily in this article?

He actually is involved in many of these incidents. He's said before that he doesn't want people to get bored of his play so he'll pick wacky teams at times.

Then again he usually switches characters multiple times during Injustice, but he plays to win in that game at all times so no one questions him. His antics during UMVC3 and Street Fighter majors are a bit more questionable.

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VargasPrime

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So, as someone unfamiliar with the FGC in general, ChrisG seems to be coming up in a lot of these examples.

Is he specifically notorious for this kind of thing? Or is he just unfortunately featured heavily in this article?

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Edited By PerfidiousSinn

I would really enjoy it if Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 wasn't the last game (main event) at tournaments. Top players have tried their best to sabotage the hype and they keep getting rewarded with top billing.

A couple majors should just have Street Fighter IV as the last game like EVO. Just as an experiment.

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Laiv162560asse

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Edited By Laiv162560asse

@rorie@billymaysrip@sugar: Sumo has actually had high profile scandals over the past few years which have forced the Japan Sumo Association to attempt a bit of a clear out. However the evidence only came to light incidentally as part of a separate investigation into illegal gambling, and furthermore the JSA only punished the most obvious offenders (inconsistently). Meanwhile, from just last month you have this laughable bout between two high ranked wrestlers who've known eachother since their school days. No action will ever be taken over that because it just isn't seen as a big deal. It's barely even a discussion point. The JSA hasn't been gifted a smoking gun in the form of text message evidence, unlike with the wrestlers who were purged, and these two are high profile guys so I feel like there's an attitude of 'oh just let 'em be'.

If the FGC wants to further legitimise fighting game tourneys as a form of entertainment and competition they need to do what the JSA hasn't done, which is tackle the collusion in spirit as well as the dry letter of the law. IMO that means they have to take a strong stance on pot-splitting, too. As somebody mentioned, it can be used by heavily favoured players to incentivise underdogs make less of an effort, which can turn it into a form of bribe. Though it's something which can never be properly regulated against, that doesn't mean you have to turn a blind eye when there are multiple allegations about a single incident. 'We can't control what people do with their money' is not an attitude that's embraced by professional sports bodies - consider how footballers, etc. are prohibited from certain betting behaviour.

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thelastgunslinger

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In most cases who decides what is and isn't collusion? I'm all for weeding out this sort of practice, even as a casual fan it bugs me, but there needs to a solid decision making process involved. A three person panel that makes the final call or something of that sort could guarantee that a final doesn't come down to a single person's suspensions.

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bgdiner

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Awesome read. I'd love to see more Scoops coverage of the e-sports scene, even if the fighting genre doesn't necessarily identify with that scene. I love this in-depth coverage of aspects of the gaming world I had previously never known a thing about, even if this leans more towards the specific side of the competition.

My only comment would be that the article seemed filled a bit too much with quotes. Specifically, the paragraphs of quotes from players and members of the scene. I didn't see as much commentary as I did statements and rhetorical questions, and it's something I think would be a great focus in future articles. I realize that the article was more of an informative one than a persuasive one, but there's nothing wrong with Patrick dealing out opinions in some of these long-form pieces. Just a suggestion, though.

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yinstarrunner

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I don't follow Fighting Games religiously or anything, but I do tend to tune into tournaments on occasion as a casual observer. I'm seeing a constant in these shitty matches: Chris G. Fuck that guy. Seriously. I never liked him, and all of this "colluding" crap is just cementing my opinion of him even more.

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rmanthorp

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rmanthorp  Moderator

@starvinggamer said:

As a member of the FGC, I found very little in this article to be condescending or offensive. Good job!

Phew! While I will always write about what I want to write about and how I want to write about it, I did take the accusations of sensationalization from my Aris story last year seriously. (For the record, I don't regret reporting that story at all.) My big takeaway was being deliberate and careful when covering communities that I'm unfamiliar with and not a part of, and tried really hard to make that apparent in this story.

<3

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Y2Ken

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Edited By Y2Ken

Great article @patrickklepek, nicely written. Definitely should add the video that @screamingghost posted earlier, I watched that and it was great to see. For Sp00ky to just go and pull the plug on the machine - I understand the worry about people deciding something was collusion, but you don't have to know fighting games well to see those guys weren't trying at all. Good on Sp00ky for taking a stand against it.

Also you didn't mention the other big threat to the stability of the FGC: MOBAs. I'm not even joking: Marn and ClakeyD went off to join Team MRN, and now Mike Ross and a few others have been talking about how all they want is to play Dota 2 and are finding it difficult to bring themselves to play anything else. These aren't necessarily the top players but they are some of the bigger personalities in the community.

That wasn't an entirely serious comment, I'm sure fighting games are still very much in their blood, but you get my point.

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newmoneytrash

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It's kind of fitting that you have a meme in an article about the FGC

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Sinusoidal

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I watched a minor tournament a while back where the SSF4AE2012 (acronyms!) final two were pot-splitting and basically goofed around with off characters for the entire final match. Not only is it boring to watch, it's also insulting to the players that legitimately tried to get where they were. I understand these guys are hardly flush with cash, and pot-splitting is probably even necessary if you're trying to make a living purely off fighting games, but they could at least make a show of it.

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Phancypants

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Edited By Phancypants

Great article Patrick!

As eSports get more popular and there's more money involved, I can't help but see the same (accelerated) evolution of other sports. Specifically, Formula 1 racing. These are issues that Motorsport has dealt with for decades, and both groups are reaching the same conclusions. I love watching how the two groups are dealing with it differently because of the separate challenges of virtual vs. physical.

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Edited By vigorousjammer

This is why I think a single elimination tournament would be more entertaining than double elimination. None of this collusion bullshit.

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ddiggler

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Edited By ddiggler

No one is doing game journalism like this right now, this is really quite amazing.

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hollitz

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Damn Patrick, good job.

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YummyTreeSap

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Edited By YummyTreeSap

What I don't like about this whole thing is that I'd be really sad if tournaments' way of "preventing" collusion was to force everyone to use the one or two characters they're known to use. It doesn't do anything, for one, and it's also ruins some fun of these things.

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thainatos

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Another great article from Patrick. Keep it up, man.

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SpudBug

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Edited By SpudBug

man, I love watching fighting game streams. I love fighting games.

Collusion and pot splitting have and always will be a thing. What is a problem is these assholes who don't even want to compete out a match. Hopefully this deters a lot of that.

Wow, I didn't watch texas showdown, but that was really shameful. The commentators aren't even saying anything because there's nothing to say.

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Enigma_2099

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One place it won’t have any impact, though, is competitive play in Japan, as there no money prizes for legal reasons.

Something to consider. That'll learn 'em!

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Sagalla

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I think this behaviour is only common when American players dominate, so that's why all the examples given here are from Marvel Vs Capcom, international competition keeps players honest

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Nordom

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Nice article.

One thing I feel like haven't been addressed is the media blackout rule.

I find it hard to believe that it will be enforced outside the US. As Cannon mentions in the article they hope the non-US will follow their lead, but consider how many big tournaments there are in the world who afaik have yet to respond to this "demand" to include and enforce this rule it would mean alot of those tournaments won't get any coverage on those 2 sites.

Can you imagine Topanga League, Godsgarden, SBO, World Games Cup in France or the various Dreamhack events not getting coverage by Eventhubs.

I personally think the collusion rule is good, but the media blackout rule seems a bit too aggressive.

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solidussnake03

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Thanks for the article Patrick, but now I have a sudden urge to spend hours on Saltybet.

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uberexplodey

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Salty Bet!

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damodar

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@amikron said:

@zombiesatemycereal said:

@sammo21 said:

Maybe if they didn't have any money involved in this at all it would be different. Take the money out and then there is nothing to get corrupt over, right?

Why would you even bother having tournaments then? Might as well just do it all online.

Japan's tourneys are only for honor due to just this kind of shit apparently.

Well not entirely. Most Japanese tournaments have no cash prize because an entry fee with possibility of winning the pot would make it illegal gambling due to certain Japanese laws. They do occasionally have tournaments with money at stake, but they're invitational tournaments without an entry fee. But yeah, if there is ever any drama in their scene, we certainly don't hear about it.

Good article, Scoops. Obviously, I'd rather not have the FGC in the spotlight again for something negative, but at least the problem is out in the open because it's trying to be fixed and the people learning about it from your article will get an informed view of what is actually going on.

For me, the pot splitting doesn't even really enter the equation as long as it doesn't affect the results. It's all about the disrespect shown to the organisers, other players (the ones whose entry fee money you are taking as the prize pot) and all the people watching at the event/on a stream etc and just generally spitting in the face of the spirit of competition that everyone comes together under. If you want to split the pot with your buddy, I don't care. But as UltraDavid is quoted in the article, there's no reason not to play the match out properly. If you want to fuck around, that's what casuals are for. If you can't see the point of playing out a match properly just because the outcome doesn't affect whether you'll get paid or not, what are you even playing the games for? We don't have esports money. If you want to get paid, get a job.

It's just a shame that it continues to be a small group of inconsiderate and immature players that drag us through the mud again; those few amongst the best players that also happen to be the ones most toxic to the scene. It's a shame that all the amazing things that are a result of the community being so tight-knit are tarnished in the face of something like this. Those tight-knit friendships aren't even what leads to the Marvel drama most of the time. Everyone might be friends, but everyone is there because they have that desire to compete and excel. Most of the time it's just ChrisG sulking.

Here's to hoping the next article can be a positive one.

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ashkev

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Good article Patrick. Would have loved a few more time stamps in those long videos of flagrant displays of drops.

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Guys, we have to be a clean and non-corrupt sport, like professional boxing and FIFA!

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altairre

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I think collusion is bullshit. I watched the Flocker vs Chris G match the article is referring to and couldn't even finish it.

Flocker pulled some crazy comebacks during that tournament with his Hawkeye, showed some really good stuff, showed why he deserved that EVO win eventhough the majority was rooting for Justin at that point and for the finals we got some B-teams that probably weren't even B-teams (Phoenix Wright, yeah sure). Especially Chris G showed that he didn't really know how to use his characters.

On paper it's a great match up, with the EVO favorite and the actual EVO winner going at it but it was one of the worst matches of that day. Killed all the hype that Flocker built up before.

Spooky was right to pull the plug in that situation. I get why the players are doing it but that doesn't make it less of an issue.


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VirgilLeadsYou

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The best players get to decide how the tournament works out.

If you want to prevent a team from goofing off, beat them.

It's pure snobbery when people complain about folk not going into a match with their "best" characters.

As a spectator, it's way more fun and interesting when they pull out "B list-ers", and I don't see the same match ups and combos through the whole tournament.

I remember a match up between two pro tekken "Bob" players, after an endless list of Bob vs Bob matches.

Guy basically said, "Fuck It", picked Miguel Caballero Rojo, and everyone lost their shit.

That player was a hero.