Okay so this is a quick question/comment I have for everyone out there... Why is that when Valve decides they want to make a sequel to their wildly popular Left 4 Dead game, similar to how Guitar Hero, Rock Band, and Madden (among others) make year-out sequels, everyone throws shit at a wall like crazed monkeys. (By everyone I of course mean the people who acted like crazed monkeys, not the reasonable folk). But when Dragon Age: Origins launches with Day 1 downloadable content that could have just as easily been put on the disc, nobody seems to care?
 
Now, I understand that one of the two big DLC packs comes with every new, shiny copy of the game and that's an anti-piracy sort of measure, and that I'm totally okay with. But the 2nd one, Warden's Keep, costs $7 and one of it's benefits includes expanding your inventory. That sounds kind of like if you had to pay to expand your attache case in Resident Evil 4. Sure, you don't have too, but of course it's only a better idea if you do. Borderlands is in desperate need of a place to store items I want because they're trophies or I just think they're pretty, but if DLC launched day and date with the game, I don't even know if I'd buy the game. I know it's effected my decision to buy Dragon Age, which to be fair I was already kind of lackluster about anyway.
 
So why is this okay? Why can Dragon Age get away with this shady business, but when Valve wants to make a bigger and better game, they get the biggest kinds of tantrums? I get that maybe it has something to do with Dragon Age being delayed, but it still just seems like they expect the hardcore fans to foot that bill, and I don't think that's incredibly fair. Somebody explain to me, calmly and intelligently, how this makes any kind of sense.

Okay so this is a quick question/comment I have for everyone out there... Why is that when Valve decides they want to make a sequel to their wildly popular Left 4 Dead game, similar to how Guitar Hero, Rock Band, and Madden (among others) make year-out sequels, everyone throws shit at a wall like crazed monkeys. (By everyone I of course mean the people who acted like crazed monkeys, not the reasonable folk). But when Dragon Age: Origins launches with Day 1 downloadable content that could have just as easily been put on the disc, nobody seems to care?
 
Now, I understand that one of the two big DLC packs comes with every new, shiny copy of the game and that's an anti-piracy sort of measure, and that I'm totally okay with. But the 2nd one, Warden's Keep, costs $7 and one of it's benefits includes expanding your inventory. That sounds kind of like if you had to pay to expand your attache case in Resident Evil 4. Sure, you don't have too, but of course it's only a better idea if you do. Borderlands is in desperate need of a place to store items I want because they're trophies or I just think they're pretty, but if DLC launched day and date with the game, I don't even know if I'd buy the game. I know it's effected my decision to buy Dragon Age, which to be fair I was already kind of lackluster about anyway.
 
So why is this okay? Why can Dragon Age get away with this shady business, but when Valve wants to make a bigger and better game, they get the biggest kinds of tantrums? I get that maybe it has something to do with Dragon Age being delayed, but it still just seems like they expect the hardcore fans to foot that bill, and I don't think that's incredibly fair. Somebody explain to me, calmly and intelligently, how this makes any kind of sense.

Downloadable content was supposed to arrive months after, game was heavily delayed, so instead it's released alongside the game.

That doesn't excuse that one of the items of the DLC is something that would have made the game better to play, first of all. Second of all, couldn't they have scooted the DLC back for posterity sake? Just a little?

Well, look at Mass Effect on the other hand.  DLC was developed for that game until after it was released, when the development team had already moved on to other projects.  What we're left with is sub-par, short, underwhelming extra content.  So with Dragon Age they had their team begin work on new content as soon as they were done with the game.. which obviously makes people question the fact why it wasn't just included with part of the game, but that would involve delaying the game to include these exra parts.  Not every member of the staff continues working on a game right up to the very minute of release.
 
At the very least, they are giving us one of the packs for free, when it was originally supposed to be paid only.
Perhaps they could have delayed the content instead of releasing it alongside the game and making it look like it was cut just to sell, but if it's finished, why not release it?

It's my understanding that Warden's Keep is part of the deluxe version originally. Perhaps they're offering it as seperate DLC for those who bought the standard edition, so that those people can have access to that extra content as well. Basically you could either pay more for the deluxe edition and have the DLC plus some extra stuff, or you could buy the standard version and pay for the DLC. I do believe that some things were unique to the deluxe edition, though, so you'll probably never see those available as DLC. At least I hope not because otherwise it would defeat the entire purpose of buying a deluxe edition. 

The DLC was created by another team not the ones making the actual main game, so it's understandable that the DLC wants to get there work appreciated buy people buying it. I mean if you worked hard doing something wouldn't you want to get paid for it? It may also be the case that they happened to finish that DLC earlier than expected so they were able to release it on Day One. Warden's keep is a whole adventure sort of thing not just expanding you inventory, every merchant in the game you can buy a backpack from and that increases your carrying capacity by 10. Not to mention the game on disc is around 8gb so there also probably wouldn't of been enough room to be able to put it on the disc aswell, I mean there would be on PS3 obviously but for the 360 and PC versions are using DVD9 Discs which are basicly Dual Layer.

Dragon age isn't exactly lacking in content as it is. What people commonly forget is that Dragon age's final content was finished months ago and that the process of fixing bugs and finishing the game did not include adding content. The content that comes in the DLC was developed after the final content was locked down for the game in all probability.  
  
Understanding the way games are made and the resources that are placed into DLC is important to this argument.  Each game has a set budget which allows for a certain amount of development on the project. After those resources are depleted if the developer wants to add more content they have to get the money to do so from Publishers and Investors. They are unlikely to get this money if there isn't going to be a return on the investment. Before the popularity of DLC this content simply wouldn't have seen the light of day. As it stands we are getting free extra content which will be paid for by incentivising the purchases of the new retail product and optional extra content available if we want  to pay a relatively small fee. 
 
If the content comes out and it is too small to warrant the price, or if the content is clearly already on the retail Disc then I think there is every cause to complain. However this doesn't appear to be the case so far for Dragon Age. The expansion of your storage was a possible issue, however I have seen no complaints that storage of items is a concern in any of the Reviews or impressions I have read. This leads me to assume that there was no choice made to limit your storage in game to a degree that would affect the core experience, which would be unreasonable. 
 
Left 4 Dead is a very different situation to the dragon age DLC. Personally I don't have a problem with that situation either, as the game looks fully featured and has enough new content to warrant a retail release.   
 
Some complaints seem to be coming from Console gamers who have grown up with the idea that you purchase a single product in Cartridge or Disc form and that is the final product, the concept of purchasing extra content seems to be confusing to them as to why it wasn't on the final Retail Disc. This is mostly due to a suspicion of new developments and not understanding the development process of a game.  
 
What seems like the majority of complaints seem to be coming from current or past PC gamers who are confused as to having to pay for content that they they think would have been provided free of charge in the past. Sometimes this confusion is fully justified, as developers attempt to charge for minor expansions such as map packs in a shooter. Unfortunately the sad reality of the situation is that due to piracy, the difficulty of keeping up with the technical requirements and the relative complexity of using a PC as a gaming platform, along side the levelling of the graphical fields between the PC and current console generation. The money simply isn't in developing the kinds of games that would have led on the PC in years gone by. Developers of bigger budget games are attempting to find ways of keeping these games viable on the PC platform. Part of this is their turning to DLC to provide a revenue of income. 
 
However I do think that the DLC content for Dragon age isn't something that would have come free in the past even on PC. This is speculation as I haven't seen the content fully yet. It simply seems like the kind of content that would have been included in the development of an expansion release, made available as and when it is finished rather than expanded often with filler to warrant a $40 - $50 release. As with Fallout and Oblivion (once you get past the horse armour) these are the contents of a more diverse expansion split up and released to be downloaded as and when you want to.  
 
The merits of the price to content ratio can readily be debated once we have that information and I am not arguing that in some cases the price has been too high for DLC content. However I cannot complain about the way that Bioware is currently handling the Dragon Age DLC as it does not seem to have impacted the content of the game.

Because when ever Valve chooses to add DLC (i.e. Crash Corse) its for some level that takes at most 1 hour to play though and after that there is zero insentive to play it after. Also, Left 4 Dead is already low on content to when we are charged for DLC it really feels like somthing that should have been in the game to begin with.
 
Dragon age on the other hand has over 50 hours of solid gameplay, and the DLC is only there to help further your experiance of the game if you really want to. Its not like by not buying the Dragon age DLC you are no longer getting your monies worth you still are now your just getting more so.
 
Also when Valve why hypeing L4D they said all DLC would be free alla TF2

Yet another argument that softens the blow is that much of the day-1 DLC was given both with Deluxe editions of the games and pre-orders. So, not only did I save $5 from pre-ordering from a specific location, but I also got a few bucks of extra content free because I decided to pay 2 weeks in advance.

" Because when ever Valve chooses to add DLC (i.e. Crash Corse) its for some level that takes at most 1 hour to play though and after that there is zero insentive to play it after. Also, Left 4 Dead is already low on content to when we are charged for DLC it really feels like somthing that should have been in the game to begin with.  Dragon age on the other hand has over 50 hours of solid gameplay, and the DLC is only there to help further your experiance of the game if you really want to. Its not like by not buying the Dragon age DLC you are no longer getting your monies worth you still are now your just getting more so.  Also when Valve why hypeing L4D they said all DLC would be free alla TF2 "

Rock Band puts out games annually? And I thought I was a fan of the series. Shouldn't I know about these developments? To be fair, technically they did... once.

This is exactly why I'm waiting for the GOTY edition that has DLC included.

" Downloadable content was supposed to arrive months after, game was heavily delayed, so instead it's released alongside the game. "

You bring up a good point:  
 
I don't think companies owe us DLC, but I know you're not saying they do. Often, the "we couldn't put it in the game" or "it wouldn't have been in there otherwise" argument is used. But we really have no way of knowing if that claim is valid, or if it's just an excuse. 
 
I love DLC that adds longevity and value to a title, but I don't think things should be cut or intentionally separated to sell more. After all, only half of xbox consoles are taken online, meaning a lot of players will never know what they're missing.

Although this was a terrible comparison, I'm guessing it's because a lot of people considered L4D to be light on content, where as most people understand that getting 50-80 hours of (apparently) high quality entertainment is pretty generous as it is.  It's hard to begrudge them their DLC if they're already giving so much content.
 
Whilst I respect people taking issue with the nickel and dime culture that publishers are adopting, I don't think this is a very fair target.

 I've made my own views about the DAO day 1 DLC clear in other places, but I'll state it one more time:  I'm not a fan of launch day DLC, and especially with a game of this magnitude (length of playtimes, etc).  But...if people want it, there's little I can do other than say "I don't like the idea of launch day DLC". "

 There's really no reason at all other than that people expect more from Valve so when they do something that seems anti-consumer it's more disappointing.  Bioware is a great developer but they certainly don't have the good will of gamers that Valve usually has, and now even less so since they're owned by EA.  Basically, their DLC is absolute bullshit, but they weren't as high on the ladder as Valve, so they didn't have as far to fall.  

 But when Dragon Age: Origins launches with Day 1 downloadable content that could have just as easily been put on the disc, nobody seems to care?   

"Although this was a terrible comparison, I'm guessing it's because a lot of people considered L4D to be light on content, where as most people understand that getting 50-80 hours of (apparently) high quality entertainment is pretty generous as it is.  It's hard to begrudge them their DLC if they're already giving so much content." 

I believe, that developers and publishers aren't obligated to give us everything they have. They are obligated to give us a good value for our money (not even that, but good business is good business for both customer and corporation). Given the fact, that Dragon Age : Origins is the biggest Bioware game yet with a campaign lasting up to a 100h in its first playthrough, I don't understand the issue. The game is perfectly fine without the optional day 1 DLC. If you are into it, why not pick it up? I know, what some of the extra cash I'd pay for the DLC will be used for - the next Bioware RPG, of which I hope to see many more. So no - I don't have a problem with day 1 premium DLC, as long as the core value of the game is good/great and I like/love the developers.
 
It would be another thing, if I'd have to buy the final chapter of the game. If that wouldn't be included in a game, I'd be royally pissed!

" @Jimbo said:

"Although this was a terrible comparison, I'm guessing it's because a lot of people considered L4D to be light on content, where as most people understand that getting 50-80 hours of (apparently) high quality entertainment is pretty generous as it is.  It's hard to begrudge them their DLC if they're already giving so much content." 

...More to the topic at hand, though, I agree with the TC about the Dragon Age DLC deterring me from buying the game until a GOTY version.  I don't want to buy the game now because I feel like I'll be missing out on content I would want in the DLC, and I don't want to buy the DLC individually because you can only download it once and because I don't want to spend the extra money on it.  Pretty annoying, because I'd like to play it now, but I feel like I can't. "
 

1) DLC is planned months ahead with entire teams working on it.
 
2) Dragon Age @ $50 on steam offers way way more content than 70% of games released, the dlc only ads to a fantastic product and value.

For anyone who has decided to not get this game as a protest to launch day DLC or whatever... you're missing out. Big time.

DLC at day 1? They sure love making money.

" Dragon age isn't exactly lacking in content as it is. What people commonly forget is that Dragon age's final content was finished months ago and that the process of fixing bugs and finishing the game did not include adding content. The content that comes in the DLC was developed after the final content was locked down for the game in all probability.    Understanding the way games are made and the resources that are placed into DLC is important to this argument.  Each game has a set budget which allows for a certain amount of development on the project. After those resources are depleted if the developer wants to add more content they have to get the money to do so from Publishers and Investors. They are unlikely to get this money if there isn't going to be a return on the investment. Before the popularity of DLC this content simply wouldn't have seen the light of day. As it stands we are getting free extra content which will be paid for by incentivising the purchases of the new retail product and optional extra content available if we want  to pay a relatively small fee.  If the content comes out and it is too small to warrant the price, or if the content is clearly already on the retail Disc then I think there is every cause to complain. However this doesn't appear to be the case so far for Dragon Age. The expansion of your storage was a possible issue, however I have seen no complaints that storage of items is a concern in any of the Reviews or impressions I have read. This leads me to assume that there was no choice made to limit your storage in game to a degree that would affect the core experience, which would be unreasonable.  Left 4 Dead is a very different situation to the dragon age DLC. Personally I don't have a problem with that situation either, as the game looks fully featured and has enough new content to warrant a retail release.    Some complaints seem to be coming from Console gamers who have grown up with the idea that you purchase a single product in Cartridge or Disc form and that is the final product, the concept of purchasing extra content seems to be confusing to them as to why it wasn't on the final Retail Disc. This is mostly due to a suspicion of new developments and not understanding the development process of a game.   What seems like the majority of complaints seem to be coming from current or past PC gamers who are confused as to having to pay for content that they they think would have been provided free of charge in the past. Sometimes this confusion is fully justified, as developers attempt to charge for minor expansions such as map packs in a shooter. Unfortunately the sad reality of the situation is that due to piracy, the difficulty of keeping up with the technical requirements and the relative complexity of using a PC as a gaming platform, along side the levelling of the graphical fields between the PC and current console generation. The money simply isn't in developing the kinds of games that would have led on the PC in years gone by. Developers of bigger budget games are attempting to find ways of keeping these games viable on the PC platform. Part of this is their turning to DLC to provide a revenue of income.  However I do think that the DLC content for Dragon age isn't something that would have come free in the past even on PC. This is speculation as I haven't seen the content fully yet. It simply seems like the kind of content that would have been included in the development of an expansion release, made available as and when it is finished rather than expanded often with filler to warrant a $40 - $50 release. As with Fallout and Oblivion (once you get past the horse armour) these are the contents of a more diverse expansion split up and released to be downloaded as and when you want to.   The merits of the price to content ratio can readily be debated once we have that information and I am not arguing that in some cases the price has been too high for DLC content. However I cannot complain about the way that Bioware is currently handling the Dragon Age DLC as it does not seem to have impacted the content of the game. "

I think the fact that people are gullible and willing to accept things such as the 'DLC team' excuse (while there are truthful elements of this, it doesn't change the core issue.  It's complex enough for people to latch onto).  I think it's also a virtue of the genre (people will say that as the game is long, it's not an issue, which is sort of a half truth) and the people that are fans of it (specifically Bioware fans who have been waiting longer for a new game, especially one with a traditional fantasy theme of any kind).  A lot of people wanted to love Dragon Age Origins from the day of announcement.  It's available on PC, 360, and PS3 which negates the fanboy troll factor.

Considering the game has more actual content in it without any of the DLC and extras from pre-orders it's kinda retarded when some are feeling offended about the DLC being there, like it's some sort of take away from the game's quality or something. Rest assured, because they actually thought the DLC path of the game out enough to start working on it along side the game doesn't mean it somehow took a chunk out of the effort for the actual game. I mean that's what people are worried about right? 
 
Yes it's kinda weird when you first enter your camp site or whatever and some dude asked you to help him on a quest, then it kicks you to a 'download this dlc' dialog. The largest annoyance for me is that I don't know a way to remove that quest in my log, other then that why would you care to complain?

This is ok because of the law of supply and demand. You don't have to like it, but enough people do to justify its existence.