GOTY Disagreements

Here's my stand point on "Game of the Year" decisions... 
 
I... just... don't care. 
 
I mean it's nice to hear other people's opinions on why they chose them. For example, Jeff trying to choose Dance Central over Limbo. That's great that he enjoys it. It's also great that the other people enjoy Limbo. It's practically their own personal decisions. It's very hard to talk down to someone that enjoys certain games over others. Exactly why it would be ridiculous for calling me an idiot since I chose Final Fantasy XIII as my favorite RPG this year.  
 
*sigh*  All I'm trying to say is that I don't care what they chose as their best whatever. I'm just glad they knew how to defend their reasons instead of saying "just because".

I think I pretty much disagreed with everything except Borderlands and Mordin. 
 
But more importantly, really did not like how vicious it kinda got round the best debut discussion. 

Me personally, York is a joke to be mentioned in a GOTY category of any kind, but I'm glad they went with what they believed.  I thought Marston would win in a runaway - and that wasn't my GOTY.  The one song in Red Dead that does stand out... (that unfortunately won the VGA - which may have hurt it for critics hoping to distance themselves) was by far the best thing I heard all year, though I liked what was on the list quite a bit.  I just can't believe the entering Mexico tune wasn't even on the list.  I was disappointed in the Limbo hate and found myself agreeing with Brad throughout the podcast. 

I should probably just leave this thread and never come back, but, people saying Jeff vetoed Marston: Did you miss the part where Ryan asks Brad if he'd like to argue Marston over Bayonetta or Mordin and Brad says no?

Am I the only one who overwhelmingly agreed with Jeff? It was for different reasons, but I agreed with him on almost all the categories. I feel like Limbo garnered support because people finally had a game that looked like art, simply because they stripped out a lot of the traditional trappings of games; being vague does not make something artful, it simply makes it vague.  
 
As for York, I continue to argue that he was the most creatively conceived, the most deep, and the most a-stereotypical character of the year. I'm getting more and more frustrated with the stupid stereotypes of the video-game industry, and York was a great relief from that. 
 
Also, I thought Super Meatboy was great, but I just couldn't get into it because I felt like I had already played it in the form of I Wanna Be The Guy, which I felt had more creative level design, which is the key facet to 2D platformers.

I have to say: Some of that arguing got straight up petty this time around. Brad seems to really hate Deadly Premonition, and Jeff seems to really hate Limbo. While I personally think Limbo is one of those "Artsy games that gets by on being artsy", a lot of the back and forth was based on two entirely polarized opinions, as if they went in trying to be as confrontational as possible.

My two choices would've been between York and Bayonetta.  
 
Marston had two modes in RDR: the "Thank you kindly ma'm" mode and the "You get it my way, AND I'LL KILL YOU" mode. He was OK as basically a straight man in a cast of over-the-top characters, but he wasn't remarkable.

best debut was kind of a stupid category. it would have been better to not allow downloadable games and leave that for it's own category, just like they did with best pc only.
 
and it might be because i hated red dead, but listening to their descriptions and deliberations on the podcast, and from what i've played myself, he's a shitty character and shouldn't have been in the running.

brad was terrible at saying anything constructive enough about categories he fought for. 
For instance three bombcasters were set for giving award to York and brad crying must have went over their heads in which case - shame on you guys for give it in (brad really sucked at playing DP and I remember people were laughing at him when ER took place, since then he's apparently on personal vendetta against anything related to DP). 
Seems like he was just not being objective, without ability to give credit where its due, such a hater.  

I liked that it actually got somewhat heated, it's better than it was in the last couple of years where there wasn't a lot of contention (aside from the main GOTY) and one side caved very easily or just outright barely bothered to argue for their choice. What I didn't like was Brad's outright refusal to recognize that there was anything at all redeemable about Deadly Premonition (not talking about gameplay here), and that Jeff seemed to think that Limbo and Super Meat Boy were really similar because they're 2D indie titles. Yes, they have that in common, but the actual play experience is radically different between those two.

I think Barry was a solid character that was overlooked a bit also - he was more interesting and a blast to be around in Alan Wake. 

, a lot of the back and forth was based on two entirely polarized opinions, as if they went in trying to be as confrontational as possible. "

I would was sort of hoping that Jeff would dispute SC2 by using the same quality of counter arguments. Just to watch Brad flip the fuck out and punch him in the face.

I agree with Jeff on Red Dead and Limbo and think Mordin is a great choice.

I like games.

Agree, disagree, they all passionately fought for their favorites in the various Awards and I don't think anyone let go of a favourite easily
nor did they let a challenging title go unchallenged. I'm really looking forward to the next few bouts.

As am I... I enjoy going back and listening to the 08 and especially 09 GOTY eps... no one will ever agree with everything, but the detail and the time allowed to get a real debate going allows it to stand out from all other GOTY podcasts... and gaming podcasts in general.

Some people are fucking idiots about Jeff in the way they say he has all the power. The way I see it Brad got his way a majority of the time.
 
He was pulling for Darksiders and Dance Central to be in the best Debut and lost out to both Super Meat Boy and Limbo.
People seem to forget that the Marston V York thing was not just Brad V Jeff but the whole crew V Brad. Ryan was holding back and letting Jeff do most of the arguing on that one.
 
 Jeff seemed pretty flexible a majority of the time while Brad was just overly stubborn. Fair enough the guy wanted to argue his points, but he took it too far at times.

The guys justified their choice of song well.
Jeff just didn't like RDR. No vendetta. No conspiracy. Get over it. Who the fuck cares if he didn't finish it. Brad didn't play Darksiders. This situation will arise a lot throughout the deliberations. If the other 3 members of the crew feel strongly enough about something in RDR it will take home some awards.They didn't think Marston was that good.
 
Godamn fanboys..

I thought the podcast was fun and i don't think we should take the arguments too seriously (although Brad and Ryan are totally right about Limbo).

The only thing that's irked me so far (aside from Brad's atrocious attitude) is that I feel like the Best New Character award was thrown to Mordin only really to please Brad. If you listen to the podcast, it seemed like Ryan, Vinny, and Jeff were all perfectly comfortable giving the award to York, but Brad's incessant whining over anything Deadly Premonition-related ended up seeming like it got a consolation prize to keep Brad from having a total breakdown. It doesn't bother me too much, because Mordin and York were both fantastic characters, but Brad's incredible emotional investment (I didn't even mention Brad's near-flip out at Ryan calling Mordin "basically a Nazi") seemed like it just got a pity prize.

If this is just Day One then I really should stay clear of this web site for the next week. Seems everyone here (Staff Included) completely lost their marbles. 

" @ArbitraryWater said:

, a lot of the back and forth was based on two entirely polarized opinions, as if they went in trying to be as confrontational as possible. "

I agree. Not sure what the source of it all is. Maybe the crop of games this year are just harder to thin out than last year."

That's because said crop is very small - 2010 was not a good year. The hilarious bickering between Jeff and Brad only confirms that. I love how Ryan and Vinny are just idly sitting by and let the two grouching children fight it out. Would be great if one of them just flipped the hell out at one point.

Agree with the criticism of Brad's atittude, he really brought the discussion down in regards to "best character", dragging it out when the rest seemed to prefer York and Bayonetta and providing little justification for his views. It was pretty much a lot of moaning whenever DP came up.

Normally I find Jeff the most agreeable member, but his total write-off of Marston, probably the best written video game character ever, and saying Limbo is "yet another indie game with an art style" without any real justification was insane. Also when Jeff and Vinny agreed that they both wanted Darksiders, why wasn't it there. Finally, the podcast seemed to be the Jeff and Brad show, and they seemed to have an active dislike of each other. Despite all this whining, I really liked the podcast.

I feel that most of the awards are pretty worthless because it seems to go like this: 
 
3 people have played game A but only 1 of them finished it fully. The other person has played game B while no one else played it. Then that 1 (or 2) guys have to argue why their experience with their game makes it a more suited game for the list and the other guy argues why the game they experienced was better. But the argument is invalid because none of them have finished all of the games, so it just boils down to who backs down first unless it's a category one side doesn't really care about.
 
Obviously it's a small team and they all can't play all the games on the list to completion because that's pretty much impossible, but then it's also not possible to have a decent argument. It's like people arguing about what's the best Car of the year when only 1 person's driven the car and he's got to try and argue why it's better (which it very well may be) to 3 other people who have never driven it.

" Agree, disagree, they all passionately fought for their favorites in the various Awards and I don't think anyone let go of a favourite easily nor did they let a challenging title go unchallenged. I'm really looking forward to the next few bouts. "

" I blame Brad and Ryan for not playing Darksiders with the Debut category argueing against that. Seriously, that game is a pretty damn good debut. First game from those developers too. "

" @Shirogane said:

" I blame Brad and Ryan for not playing Darksiders with the Debut category argueing against that. Seriously, that game is a pretty damn good debut. First game from those developers too. "

Goddamit, that's all I could think about while reading the article. Darksiders didn't even get a look-in. "

 Nothing they listed coincided with mine so the outcome isn't a huge deal to me, I know they have very different tastes but was still good to hear some support for Darksiders. The confusion was because I spent an hour listening to the podcast waiting for them to change their mind over Mordin but it never happened, I simply wanted to know if they had changed their mind post-podcast.

Not playing the games seem to be an issue, but i really enjoy the heated arguments.

Darksiders could not be any more by-the-numbers if it tried.  I found it a slog after a few hours tbh.  There was nothing wrong with it exactly, it's just a competent action-adventure game.  I didn't see anything to get excited about.
 
When you consider last year had Dragon Age, Shadow Complex, Borderlands, Infamous, Demon's Souls, Torchlight and possibly even Arkham Asylum (depending on how generous you're feeling)... 2010 was hardly a vintage year for new game franchises.

Jeff's opinion always has most weight for some reason.. I totally feel like the 2008 GOTY was him just having decided already that GTA IV was gonna win. But then, GTAIV and RDR are basically the same game in different settings with different characters and Jeff really doesn't seem to like RDR. So as Brad put it, it's just a question of different taste.
 
I really think they should stop arguing over runner-up's if the category winner has enough margin. Or they should just add an extra runner up if they can't decide between two.
 
All of the arguing is obsolete, because the game of the year 2010 is obviously Farming simulator 2010. It's got 2010 in the name!
Also, most pedo name of 2010: Just dance kids.

" Darksiders could not be any more by-the-numbers if it tried.  I found it a slog after a few hours tbh.  There was nothing wrong with it exactly, it's just a competent action-adventure game.  I didn't see anything to get excited about.  When you consider last year had Dragon Age, Shadow Complex, Borderlands, Infamous, Demon's Souls, Torchlight and possibly even Arkham Asylum (depending on how generous you're feeling)... 2010 was hardly a vintage year for new game franchises. "

Yeah well, Limbo is Heart of Darkness, Stacking is Messiah, StarCraft 2 is StarCraft 1 … this argument is futile.

I think their reasons for omitting Darksiders were pretty unfair considering the other games in their top 3. Jeff was totally correct when he said that there has been no game like Darksiders on the 360 and PS3. It seemed pretty hypocritical.

I have to say, after reading this topic, you've all sufficiently put me off following the Giantbomb GOTY coverage full stop, and this talk of Jeff and Brad makes me wonder about the validity of the site's reviews...

" I have to say, after reading this topic, you've all sufficiently put me off following the Giantbomb GOTY coverage full stop, and this talk of Jeff and Brad makes me wonder about the validity of the site's reviews... "

This is going to sound crazy, but whenever Jeff talked about Limbo I actually felt a little bit physically ill. So glad Brad was there to fight tooth and nail for Limbo. I'm okay with Bayonetta winning that category, though.
 
Thought John Marston got the short end of the stick, too - I think he should at least have been a runner-up. Yes there's an element of 'what you see is what you get' with Marston, but what you get is great. I also feel Marston did have a character arc - just because he didn't spend 15 minutes talking about the conclusions he'd come to at the end, goddamn, sometimes actions speak louder than words. Mordin was fucking great, though and I loved the discussion about his involvement in the genophage.
 
Edit: Having read some of the thread I should clarify before I'm painted as some kind of delusional sycophant or something. Having had a strong reaction to the Limbo discussion doesn't mean I revere any of the staff or place any real importance on these 'awards', if those words were coming out of the mouth of literally anyone else I would vehemently disagree to the same extent. That I had such a reaction could be considered a problem, sure, but not for the reasons I fear may be implied.

 Jeff was totally correct when he said that there has been no game like Darksiders on the 360 and PS3.

Darksiders was a great debut, but I don't know how much of an evolution or maturing of the concept it is. That's not to say I don't think it could have easily made runner-up status, I really dug that game.

" @Shinri said:

" I have to say, after reading this topic, you've all sufficiently put me off following the Giantbomb GOTY coverage full stop, and this talk of Jeff and Brad makes me wonder about the validity of the site's reviews... "

What does them arguing about their favorites have to do with their individual reviews? "

" @SBYM said:

" @Shinri said:

" I have to say, after reading this topic, you've all sufficiently put me off following the Giantbomb GOTY coverage full stop, and this talk of Jeff and Brad makes me wonder about the validity of the site's reviews... "

What does them arguing about their favorites have to do with their individual reviews? "

Because they did it like children, apparently. That doesn't bode well for the professional attitude towards games they need to have - it makes me wonder if their reviews are biased in ways. Not saying they are, just that it makes one ponder their overall professionalism too. "

I find the bickering to be the best part tbqh.  
 
The only thing that irked me was when Brad kept twisting the rules to the new ip category to fit the stuff he wanted in there. Jeff fought him on it but I feel like the others should have jumped in to plug the shit spewing from Brad's mouth. 

" @SBYM said:

" @Shinri said:

" I have to say, after reading this topic, you've all sufficiently put me off following the Giantbomb GOTY coverage full stop, and this talk of Jeff and Brad makes me wonder about the validity of the site's reviews... "

What does them arguing about their favorites have to do with their individual reviews? "

Because they did it like children, apparently. That doesn't bode well for the professional attitude towards games they need to have - it makes me wonder if their reviews are biased in ways. Not saying they are, just that it makes one ponder their overall professionalism too. "