Not Japan? This concept exists to describe games that are "visually and culturally inspired by historic Japan". Granted. By why not just add that description to the game that has such a concept? If this concept is a valid one then I might as well make pages like "Not U.K." for Fable or "Not Europe" for Valkyria Chronicles. I'd like to have this page deleted, it just doesn't seem deep enough as a single entity to stand as a concept. Unless we have objections that is in which I'll gladly listen.
Maybe a broader concept could roll up smaller ones. For example the joke of "unnamed middle eastern country" could encompass an idea that games take place in real world looking places but are fictional if not removed from Earth to begin with.
However as it stands, I agree with the initial deletion.
" Maybe a broader concept could roll up smaller ones. For example the joke of "unnamed middle eastern country" could encompass an idea that games take place in real world looking places but are fictional if not removed from Earth to begin with. However as it stands, I agree with the initial deletion. "
i like this idea.. it would be much better than doing a "Not (region)" page.
@Tuffgong: That might work. But I don't think that's large enough of a concept to have anything particularly interesting or useful in it since only a small handful of games tend to do this. I could be wrong though.
I created the page, so it probably won't be a surprise if I say keep it. :P
And I consider it a valid concept because there are quite a few games that feature a setting that's very inspired by Japan that is obviously, well, not Japan. The way characters dress, architecture, customs, the proliferation of samurai, ninjas, and geishas. Elements that could very well pin the nation as being Japan if it weren't already established that it isn't. While the concept could perhaps be named differently, I don't see it as being invalid.
While the argument for "Not U.K." could possibly be used to counter this, well, think of the commonality of medieval western fantasy that take place in settings that bear similarities to England or to any other specific region of Europe. Or how Eagle Land in EarthBound is basically the U.S. Culturally and aesthetically, similarities exist, but they aren't one in the same.
"Maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but places which are 'Not Japan' are like how Gotham City is 'Not New York'. "
That's pretty much it. In a similar vein, in Valkyrie Profile, there is an island nation off the coast of the main continent called Hai-Lan. In this nation, the citiizens predominantly have dark hair and eyes, samurai war with each other and miko attend shrines. There are characters from Hai-Lan named Jun and Nanami, which are very common Japanese names. But Hai-Lan itself is not Japan.
I understand this concept and thing it's a good idea, but I do think that it should be merged with some broader concept like "reality substitutes", like Gotham City or how Burger Shot replaces places like Burger King in GTA
I suppose now might be a good time to bring up the Pseudo-China page, then (this one I did not create).
@ThatFrood said:
" I understand this concept and thing it's a good idea, but I do think that it should be merged with some broader concept like "reality substitutes", like Gotham City or how Burger Shot replaces places like Burger King in GTA "
That's getting too broad, though. For one, it's lumping cities and nations with fast food chains. It also lumps nations and cultures in a way that may just end up causing a jumble of games that happen to have locations similar to real-life ones in an indistinct manner.
@Hailinel: I see where you're coming from and I do agree with you to some degree but I just don't think it's important enough to be considered a concept really. If a game's style is inspired by the Japanese culture then I think it's better to describe that within that game's page instead on lumping it into this. And now we've got Psuedo-China as well to deal with. I'm not wholly against this concept but it just seems unnecessary to me.
" @Hailinel: I see where you're coming from and I do agree with you to some degree but I just don't think it's important enough to be considered a concept really. If a game's style is inspired by the Japanese culture then I think it's better to describe that within that game's page instead on lumping it into this. And now we've got Psuedo-China as well to deal with. I'm not wholly against this concept but it just seems unnecessary to me. "
I feel that such concepts are acceptable, and that like Not Japan and Pseudo-China, there could be concepts for other pages related to games with settings clearly inspired by a national cultural aesthetic as long as such cultural inspirations are very clearly present in those games.
@Hailinel: Well I'm no massive fan of it but I guess there isn't any harm in leaving it as it is. Plus you seem pretty adamant about this anyway. It'll be nicer to flesh out that page a little more though wouldn't it (perhaps some specific examples from certain games) so it seems clearer.
Frankly the page needs to be expanded on and fleshed out more because as it stands the page is pretty lacking in descriptive text to explain fully what its purpose is. I would suggest perhaps renaming it to "Unnamed Asian Country" or "Unnamed Oriental Country" if that fits its purpose better.
I kinda think that if this and the China one exists, then there should be a 'not Europe'. It could easily be rolled into "Fictional places inspired by real world places'. It's not a clever title, but it's what these are.
@Hamz:@Hailinel: I would request at least that this concept be renamed to "Faux Asia" and have the Psuedo-China page to be merged with it. It may be broader then Halinel had intended but I think it's probably better. I'd like to have his opinion on this at least. If he doesn't want it to be merged then I think renaming it to "Faux Japan" would be better.
@Romination: Since we have this concept I guess there's no reason not to have a European one. You're more then welcome to submit the page yourself if you don't have the quest for that yet, otherwise I'll throw it in myself.
@eroticfishcake: Right now I'm inclined to say Pseudo-China could be renamed to Faux Asia and merge the purpose of both pages to cover games that are clearly inspired by asian history, culture and influence but naturally are not based on the real locations they are inspired by.
Naturally "Not Japan" would be deleted but its content and purpose merged as noted above.
What I'll do is leave this open for another hour or two.
Right now my plan would be to rename Pseudo-China to "Faux Far East Asia" and delete "Not Japan". Merging info and purpose of both pages into one. However if someone can think of a better name than "Faux Far East Asia" please do provide suggestions! :)
" @eroticfishcake: Right now I'm inclined to say Pseudo-China could be renamed to Faux Asia and merge the purpose of both pages to cover games that are clearly inspired by asian history, culture and influence but naturally are not based on the real locations they are inspired by. Naturally "Not Japan" would be deleted but its content and purpose merged as noted above. "
" What I'll do is leave this open for another hour or two. Right now my plan would be to rename Pseudo-China to "Faux Far East Asia" and delete "Not Japan". Merging info and purpose of both pages into one. However if someone can think of a better name than "Faux Far East Asia" please do provide suggestions! :) "
It could probably be trimmed down to just Faux East Asia, which would cover China, Korea, and Japan. Nations further west or south are generally considered part of central Asia or southeast Asia.
This could easily be a more broad thing where a nation or place in a game is based on a real world one, but isn't. That said, i guess having it more specific in the area/continent that the ones in that specific game are from may be a good idea, considering how many there are.
Ones i can think of from the top of my head that are fairly common are... China, Japan, Russia, Middle East, Africa, Mid-America(Mayans/Aztec), Egypt and Europe. The case for the Europe one is a bit different from the rest though. This would most likely have to be a whole faux europe, not just one country.
Faux East Asia is now there for you guys to fill in and edit. I would strongly suggest that folks actually fill the page in with text to explain its purpose. Associating a tonne of games and other pages in the database too it is cool but not helpful at explaining a page's purpose. Flesh it out and have some fun!
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