GMAs, The UK Games Industry, and Rab Florence.

@grbear said:

I'm honestly struggling to get my head around just how badly MCV have handled this whole shitshow. The sensible approach would have been to get Wainwright to write a response to the article dealing with any uncomfortable issues it may have raised. Considering the threat of legal action supposedly came from MCV as a company and not from Wainwrights own lawyer its reasonable to assume that the senior staff at MCV felt getting the lawyers in was a reasonable response and somehow didn't anticipate this sort of backlash which is utterly bewildering to me. The actions of MCV turned what would have been a minor enough story in the grand scheme of things into a big story and has practically destroyed Wainwrights professional reputation. She could easily be accused of being naive in her actions as she is relatively new to professional journalism but the senior staff at MCV like Ben Parfitt and Michael French have been around long enough to know better and should never let a situation like this develop.

Dave Cook was the other writer mentioned by name in the original article and his reputation hasn't suffered the same sort of damage because he basically faced up to it relatively quickly, admitted he fucked up and tried to move on.

Agreed. Looking at all this you would think this was MCV's first rodeo. They turned Florence into a martyr and threw Wainwright under the scrutiny of the entire internet. I have no idea what they thought was going to happen.

That being said, I hate when people threaten libel for TRUE things that others have written. And the fact that UK law would entertain something like this is very surprising to me. I had no idea their libel/slander laws were so wonky. The Forbes article makes an interesting point that half of the entertainment business (cites Jon Stewart specifically) would be out on their ear if we had that set up in the US. The opportunistic relationship between Gaming PR and Gaming Journalism isn't exactly new news (it's pretty much why we're here) but the odd way the UK handles libel is new to me. Looks like I learned something today.

And @SexVicar THANK YOU for pointing out the difference between libel and slander. This thread was starting to make my OCD twitch.

UK libel laws really are awful, and I apologise to the rest of the world for that (though I'm Scottish and hope we'll be independent soon, so then I won't have to feel bad about that!). I recall a case where a book accusing a rich and powerful Arab ruler of links to terrorism was published in the US (and only the US) but was pulped because he succesfully sued for libel in the UK. Someone bought a copy from US Amazon, so it fell under UK law! Similarly a science journalist was taken to court (unsucessfully) by chiropractors for debunking their nonsense. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/19/libel-laws-reform-simon-singh

Anyway, as for Wainwright, judging by her Giant Bomb blog (and her actions) she's an immature and starry-eyed kid who is way too swept up by the excitement of writing about games, seeing preview builds and having 'behind the scenes' access and contacts. Those are exactly the people most susceptible to being influenced (without realising it) by PRs and publishers. Think about how much you would love someone like that if you work for Square Enix - let her see ten minutes of a preview build of Tomb Raider - which costs you nothing really - and she'll be so pleased you're guaranteed some free breathless hype. Call her a 'consultant' and ask for some feedback on the game before it is finished and they'll love you even more.

More damaging in many ways than plain old corruption, because it's subtler, more inisidious and there's not much that can be done about it.

I am sure I have heard Jeff for one talking about exactly this problem, in fact. On one of the Jar Time videos, I think.

One of the RPS staff just did a write-up on this.

http://botherer.org/2012/10/25/an-utter-disgrace/

In summary, she's a scumbag who abuses the legal system to stifle valid criticism about her shilling for bad games.

Entertaining situation.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium

@FluxWaveZ said:

Entertaining situation.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium

Eh, way too much name called and stupidity, she deserves serious actual criticism and admonishment for the vast array of things she has actually done wrong. not random internet rage

@Sieghardt said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

Entertaining situation.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium

Eh, way too much name called and stupidity, she deserves serious actual criticism and admonishment for the vast array of things she has actually done wrong. not random internet rage

Next thing this is going to turn into another Anita Sarkeesian.

@WalkerTR77: Burnistoun almost never makes me laugh, except for that one amazing line, oh and 2 liter bottle of ginger.

@Hats said:

@Sieghardt said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

Entertaining situation.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium

Eh, way too much name called and stupidity, she deserves serious actual criticism and admonishment for the vast array of things she has actually done wrong. not random internet rage

Next thing this is going to turn into another Anita Sarkeesian.

Sexism!!!!

Jesus Christ what a clusterfuck this became. I think her behavior has been disgusting and Rob/Rab was right to criticize her and her actions. Not to mention MCVs.

@Hats said:

@Sieghardt said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

Entertaining situation.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium

Eh, way too much name called and stupidity, she deserves serious actual criticism and admonishment for the vast array of things she has actually done wrong. not random internet rage

Next thing this is going to turn into another Anita Sarkeesian.

Probably not as bad as that.

At least Wainwright does what she's paid to do.

When did we start referring to journalists as "journos"? I don't like it, not one bit.

@Hats said:

@Sieghardt said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

Entertaining situation.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium

Eh, way too much name called and stupidity, she deserves serious actual criticism and admonishment for the vast array of things she has actually done wrong. not random internet rage

Next thing this is going to turn into another Anita Sarkeesian.

Yeah, she might be called out for doing a shitty job!

This discussion has been a bit of a funny go around. I really do not get the wrongness of Geoff sitting between two marketing statues (aside from it being products that should probably be taxed for being only capable of damaging the user). Game Trailers is not and does not pretend to be any kind of journalist site, and exists to do nothing but promote games for the most part (maybe they occasionally do flame bait). But shill is a bit of a harsh word for sales guy doing their job, and is usually reserved for people posing to be something else. Marketing of Black Ops 2 has been especially extravagant, but if someone cannot spot that it is part of an advertising campaign you would wonder about the sort of crazy perception they would get from watching any TV.

The later stuff with pulling a specific person's name is amusing, but it is more of a situation where said person is not really a journalist in any specific sense. Trying to follow little bits of news releases is well and good, but blindly leaping at purchasing advice from people you are not certain are both trust worthy and having similar preferences to yourself is a bit silly.

I'm more inclined to only consider a game enthusiast as a journalist if they behave in that fashion and make it clear that they aspire to be taken that way. Assuming game writer has anything to do with criticism, journalism, or trust worthiness is unworkable.

Not the first time he's criticized games journalism.

@Kieran_ES said:

So this is the last thing I'll probably say on this matter.

The whole debacle has left me a bit cold towards the wider industry, and the actions of a certain number amongst games writers were awful. At the same time, I have to put myself in the shoes of a very young writer who just saw herself in an article loosely discussing corruption in games writing. She did something wrong, stubbornly refused to admit the mistake, and then made a rash decision to try and get that off the internet. Her actions were wrong and the proper response would have been a written response, with a request to publish it on EG. Instead she panicked, saw her future being threatened and did a dumb thing. I guess I can understand that.

Lauren Wainwright still has a bunch to learn, and mistakes are a part of that. Unfortunately for her, her mistakes became part of the wider conversation about the problems in games writing and it all got linked to her. Most of us get to make our mistakes without a gigantic public audience. I have sympathy for that. If she had owned up, I would have a lot of respect for her. Instead she will likely continue to believe what she did was right, because so many people are telling her it was. And she will likely label the response from the internet as more of a notoriously vitriolic audience attacking another writer, instead of perhaps seeing the value in criticism.

Ultimately I'm more sad on how this turned out, for her and for the industry. The older, more experienced writers don't have the excuse of youth to hide behind and the numbers that came out to defend their shitty behaviour were disheartening. Wainwright has cast doubt on her own credibility, and the wider industry has revealed how insidiously it is run. Rab lost a fucking job.

I applaud you, games industry. Well done.

Kind of off topic but good god you are a great writer. I wish I could articulate my thoughts as perfectly as you.

@deerokus said:

UK libel laws really are awful, and I apologise to the rest of the world for that (though I'm Scottish and hope we'll be independent soon, so then I won't have to feel bad about that!). I recall a case where a book accusing a rich and powerful Arab ruler of links to terrorism was published in the US (and only the US) but was pulped because he succesfully sued for libel in the UK. Someone bought a copy from US Amazon, so it fell under UK law! Similarly a science journalist was taken to court (unsucessfully) by chiropractors for debunking their nonsense. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/19/libel-laws-reform-simon-singh

Anyway, as for Wainwright, judging by her Giant Bomb blog (and her actions) she's an immature and starry-eyed kid who is way too swept up by the excitement of writing about games, seeing preview builds and having 'behind the scenes' access and contacts. Those are exactly the people most susceptible to being influenced (without realising it) by PRs and publishers. Think about how much you would love someone like that if you work for Square Enix - let her see ten minutes of a preview build of Tomb Raider - which costs you nothing really - and she'll be so pleased you're guaranteed some free breathless hype. Call her a 'consultant' and ask for some feedback on the game before it is finished and they'll love you even more.

More damaging in many ways than plain old corruption, because it's subtler, more inisidious and there's not much that can be done about it.

I am sure I have heard Jeff for one talking about exactly this problem, in fact. On one of the Jar Time videos, I think.

I'm very disappointed in Wainwrights reaction to this, but I completely understand just how fucking hard this must be for her. Like you said, she's naive and caught up in the buzz of an industry that she's probably really passionate for. Considering how much attention has suddenly been thrust upon her, anyone as inexperienced as her probably would have flopped hard instead of properly handling the situation.

Please someone tell me we have a backup of the her blog on here where she said she was working with SE.

@PufferFiz: I think it was posted earlier in the thread.

@JasonR86 said:

@Akyho:

Ok. I didn't know exactly who he was. In light of all that then the blame should fall to Eurogamer then. My issue would be with them for putting up the article in the first place. They are then the ones who are responsible for the slander and acted unprofessionally.

It wasn't slander, as it was written.

Besides, it wasn't even libel, given everything he said was grounded in fact. Further,

Slander took place and someone is responsible. It's either Eurogamer or Rab. Just because he may or may not be correct in his interpretation is almost irrelevant. Her name and Geoff's name for that matter was defamed and, really, based off of interpretations of observations and not really due to hard facts. I totally agree with legal action taking place. It's just a matter of who is ultimately responsible.

I'd actually be interested to see how this went in court. There's been a huge uproar regarding UK libel laws as of the last few months (years...), and this could be the last push that was required to reform.

@GetEveryone: The law is actually in the process of being changed, this bill is currently going through the legislative process. Still no legal aid for slander/libel though, which is the change I think would make the most difference.

@CottonWolf: Thanks for the link, mate. Interested to see how they're planning on changing it. I doubt it goes far enough, as you say.

http://endsarcasm.tumblr.com/post/34354246758/a-damaged-future-the-games-press-and-young-writers

I wrote this for some reason. Skip to the last two paragraphs for my thoughts on how this effects the industry in the future.

In short, young writers continue believing Lauren's actions were right, and that the Press PR relationship is natural and shouldn't be approached warily. Criticism of industry = bad. AND, we lose out on potentially great writers because they become disheartened by all the bullshit. See legitimate criticism of the industry losing a man his job. Don't end up in the industry.

I've been saying this sort of stuff for ages, the press gets pampered and treated as fans but fans get shitty DRM and expensive accessoires to purchase.
 
Meanwhile, every attending journo at the E3 (which is probably mostly paid for by their employer) gets free games, consoles and memberships.
Sure, I get how that works but they're not even going to buy the game most of the time. Yet they want consumers to fork out 60 bucks. I just want more demo's and more consumer aimed thingies, instead of the hype train and press ass kissing.

This whole situation is shitty :( And all this brouhaha simply takes the focus away from what Rab was trying to say in his original article as highlighted in:

http://botherer.org/2012/10/25/a-bit-of-perspective/

I feel that getting on Keighley for what he does to be amusing. Keighley isn't really a critic of games, he's more a promoter of the medium as a whole. He's like the Johnny Carson of games; he features a whole bunch of them and he's always positive. Would you get mad at Johnny Carson for telling you "Ishtar is in theaters Friday!" Keighley's role isn't to adjudicate quality and give meaningful purchasing advice, it's to be presentable and attractive and enthusiastic as a whole.

They always use 'PR people' in order to make them faceless and awful drones here to ruin everything. Next time Adam Boyes is on Giant Bomb to show the new Sony thing (or just to drink rum) I hope everyone goes "conflict of interest, evil PR person booooo!"

That said, I do think that lady is in Square Enix's pocket and is not presenting herself as such.

Kieghley should drop all pretense of being a journalist and Gametrailers refrain from any qualifications numerical ratings or otherwise to their content, From what I see and hear from this particular episode he is no more or less than a shill. Nothing wrong being the parrot prime of the industry, there is a function still attributable to a familiar face with human features that is in demand, just don't try to inform people as if your opinion matters one whit or anything different from any talking point drivel issued by the PR.

i've liked Rab for years, and was really sad to see this go down the way it did, other than the shitstorm this created for Him, Lauren, Eurogamer and MVC i think its really sad he decided to stop writing his column, some of the best and funniest writing to do with games iv read, he's a really good writer that is deeply passionate and informed.

I read the article the day it came out, and when i saw him quote Lauren directly it did surprise me a bit, simply because you NEVER see that in games writing, i actually liked the fact someone called out this bullshit and when this is over with (you know, when the next shitstorm hits internetville) im going to make a list of journalists that support this kind of behavior and ignore them for the rest of their career's,

Giant Bomb are in a really cool place where they can get behind the scene access and conversations, because of their relationships with PR and Developers, i completely understand the position everyone is in when this information is passed onto me, and i feel Giant Bomb is a better place for it, HOWEVER not every website or publication needs to be Giant Bomb, and i would love for there to be an outlet that has a completely professional relationship with the industry and keep it at arms length, Rab is always my go to guy for stuff like that, he always seemed an outsider to the industry, i just hope he decides to continue to write gaming related stuff for someone else

Gaming press should police itself more often. It is ridiculous what has happened here simply because one guy lifted the curtain to show the public what has behind it.

The gaming press does not want he internet to be the police and watchdog for this stuff. The internet will go Judge Dredd on your ass.

http://wosland.podgamer.com/the-wainwright-profile/#more-14177

We haven't highlighted how Intent Media has been at the forefront of debasing videogames journalism for years, along with VG24/7 and many others. We haven't even told you the story of how IGN's Colin Campbell, mentioned above and a winner of the GMA's "Games Industry Legend" award, is directly implicated in the practice of covertly selling review scores for advertising – something this writer can verify from first-hand personal knowledge.

Hot damn.

This is so sexist.

This is so sexist.

Lauren Wainwright just made the biggest mistake of her "carrer". Instead of defending her position she threatened to sue and eventually it ended up with someone lossing their job. I don't think her original intent was to get the guy fired but thats what ended up happening. Now it's going to bring the original article even bigger exposure and in turn bad reputation on her end and she'll always be known as the one who got her fellow journalist fired.

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

I've been saying this sort of stuff for ages, the press gets pampered and treated as fans but fans get shitty DRM and expensive accessoires to purchase. Meanwhile, every attending journo at the E3 (which is probably mostly paid for by their employer) gets free games, consoles and memberships. Sure, I get how that works but they're not even going to buy the game most of the time. Yet they want consumers to fork out 60 bucks. I just want more demo's and more consumer aimed thingies, instead of the hype train and press ass kissing.

To be fair, I don't think journalists getting sent free pre-release copies of the game is an issue, as long as that's ALL they're getting (and it almost never is). Movie critics attend screeners for free before the film is released too. It's a necessity in order to do the work effectively, unfortunately. They shouldn't be allowed to keep the games as their own though, and add it to their personal collection.

The rest of this shit is fucking vile, though, and completely unprofessional.

Can't wait...

@CptBedlam said:

Can't wait...

Oh yeah, that's going to be interesting.

2012 - The Year The Gaming Press Shit The Bed

@algertman said:

2012 - The Year The Gaming Press Shit The Bed

Well, they did it for about 30 years now, it's just becoming harder for them to hide those huge piles of shit. (Thank you, internet!)

@algertman said:

http://wosland.podgamer.com/the-wainwright-profile/#more-14177

We haven't highlighted how Intent Media has been at the forefront of debasing videogames journalism for years, along with VG24/7 and many others. We haven't even told you the story of how IGN's Colin Campbell, mentioned above and a winner of the GMA's "Games Industry Legend" award, is directly implicated in the practice of covertly selling review scores for advertising – something this writer can verify from first-hand personal knowledge.

Hot damn.

Oh my.

@Simplexity: I sincerely hope you're kidding. Because if not .. stunning.

@CptBedlam said:

@algertman said:

2012 - The Year The Gaming Press Shit The Bed

Well, they did it for about 30 years now, it's just becoming harder for them to hide those huge piles of shit. (Thank you, internet!)

Agreed but the last year it's been ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where the gaming press is so sloppy they spend more time defending each other than covering games.

I applied there last year, she got the job....

I'm not amused by any of this in a way that compensates for a year of bitterness... no not at all.

@GetEveryone:

I can't tell you how much I don't want to talk about this topic anymore.

@JasonR86 said:

@GetEveryone:

I can't tell you how much I don't want to talk about this topic anymore.

Go on.

@GetEveryone said:

@JasonR86 said:

@GetEveryone:

I can't tell you how much I don't want to talk about this topic anymore.

Go on.

I actually can't tell you. Words aren't enough. I've run so many circles. Said so many things. And people have focused on the fact that I used 'slander' rather then 'libel' and that I called the dude one type of professional writer then another. I'm done. Goodbye topic.

To think Geoff and Halo 4 was the opening kick off to this storm.

Know what happens when you hold down "SHIFT" and hit "4" together?

You get "$"

Think about it.

@sam1am7000 said:

This whole situation is shitty :( And all this brouhaha simply takes the focus away from what Rab was trying to say in his original article as highlighted in:

http://botherer.org/2012/10/25/a-bit-of-perspective/

the wainwright stuff has rightfully superceded the issues in the original article

the very first step in addressing the issue...is being able to address the issue without legal threats and people losing their jobs, if we cant even do that much, focusing on the other issues isnt even an option

The beauty of this situation now is that her credibility as a video game journalist has been tarnished largely due to her own overreaction. I can't imagine any established publication or website worth reading would be willing to hire her now, at least not under her real name.

@Wong_Fei_Hung said:

@GetEveryone:

As far as i know her latest work has not been with SE, it's been for MVC and a UK based newspaper, and unrelated to any Square game.

You cannot shut off being a fan of a game, and showing your appreciation for a series visually or by any other means, hell Kevin van Ord reviews every single AC game, his blogs are plastered with images, and he even has an ugly tattoo.

There's an interesting gray area here, as Wainwright's position within "games journalism" is unclear. Is she a hobbyist who just happens to write about games, or is she a journalist who writes objective game reviews like she ostensibly did for The Sun? Which is it?

Just reading up on this topic since the story broke, and it seems many games journalists don't have a J-school background and hence don't have the ethical foundation that's drilled into you in college, and if not there, then the moment you step into a newspaper office for real. I've been a journalist for 13 years w/ newspapers and magazines. We had an 80-page ethics guideline at my 1st job - we couldn't even sign a petition for anything because that would represent a bias. Wainwright has no such background, although I will say, I think she should know better than to plaster Tomb Raider stuff all over her Twitter page. Seems like common sense to me.

@stryker1121 said:

@Wong_Fei_Hung said:

@GetEveryone:

As far as i know her latest work has not been with SE, it's been for MVC and a UK based newspaper, and unrelated to any Square game.

You cannot shut off being a fan of a game, and showing your appreciation for a series visually or by any other means, hell Kevin van Ord reviews every single AC game, his blogs are plastered with images, and he even has an ugly tattoo.

There's an interesting gray area here, as Wainwright's position within "games journalism" is unclear. Is she a hobbyist who just happens to write about games, or is she a journalist who writes objective game reviews like she ostensibly did for The Sun? Which is it?

Just reading up on this topic since the story broke, and it seems many games journalists don't have a J-school background and hence don't have the ethical foundation that's drilled into you in college, and if not there, then the moment you step into a newspaper office for real. I've been a journalist for 13 years w/ newspapers and magazines. We had an 80-page ethics guideline at my 1st job - we couldn't even sign a petition for anything because that would represent a bias. Wainwright has no such background, although I will say, I think she should know better than to plaster Tomb Raider stuff all over her Twitter page. Seems like common sense to me.

She has a journalism degree. She should have that ethical foundation. She writes for The Sun and MCV, and has reviewed games for a company that she once worked for.

This just in: http://botherer.org/2012/10/26/guest-post-robert-florence-on-the-last-few-days/

Don't hate the player, hate the game I guess. To be fair Wainwright does seem more to be a rube who was taken for a ride than an evil mastermind twirling her mustache over her piles of Square Enix money. You could argue that everything she has done has been stupid, and I don't think anyone would argue back, but I don't think she is "corrupt" per se.

What I don't entirely agree with is Florence's assessment that it's all the PR people's fault. Yes we know that gaming PR is totally whack, and we've heard the Bombardiers complain about it on more than one occasion, but that is their job. They aren't getting paid to simply send out informational press releases. They are hired to give you the old razzle-dazzle. Now I'm not saying that it's morally correct for PR people to essentially try to bribe journalists into giving good reviews, in fact it's pretty gross. But, a lot of the actions described here are not specific to gaming PR, but common to PR in general and only so much of it is ever going to change. If you think the lavish PR parties and events are ever going to stop... well good luck with that.

I believe the onus is on the journalists/writers to stay honest and look through the smoke and mirrors of PR. The only way PR is ever going to come close to changing is if writers stop falling for the act. So in summation, gaming PR is totally crappy, but journalists need to keep their own house before they can take on the big bad wolf.

@FluxWaveZ said:

Entertaining situation.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium

Sometimes I love the Internet so much. And where the hell are the 4channers when you need them?