@bcooper56: A gaming PC running games at a 1920x1080 resolution is true 1080p. So far the only real 1080p games on consoles are downloadable ones such as Wipeout HD or Super Street Fighter II HD Remix. Most games, if you set your console settings to output at 1080p are upscaled (essentially stretching a 720p image to 1080p, no actually adding detail). Despite this, console gaming still looks good. Examples of nice looking games not at 1080p including Gears of War 2, Uncharted 2, Killzone 2. If you like to game, don't let screen resolution stop you. But if you do see a gaming PC running at that resolution, it is much better compared to its console upscaled counterpart.
Most console games aren't even 1280x720. There won't be any improvement in upscaling it, and it will probably look even worse. Unless you're playing on a PC, of course. :P
Games in 1080p actual look amazing. I know most games on disks for consoles, though, run at native 720p. 1080p native vs. 720p native there is a pretty noticeable jump in sharpness.
well as for 1080p console games you do see a difference, on my ps3 the gran turismo demos run at true 1080p and the edges are alot crisp and smoother while upscaled games are a bit blurrier on hdtv.
The few that are actually designed to run at a native 1080p resolution do appear a bit sharper than a 720p game. But it's nothing to delve over.
You have to take the resolution you find on the box with a grain of salt, though. Whatever the TV switches to is the resolution the game was designed for. Some devs like to cheat by saying the game will upscale to 1080p, but was never actually designed with 1080p graphics.
It's like computer monitors, looking at the refresh rate: 2ms G2G means it takes 2ms to switch from a grey color to another grey color, and not from white to black (which is what should be tested)... which actually comes out to being 16ms refresh rate.
Same thing with dynamic contrast... it's just luring tactics at this point.
Console games these days seem to appear pretty danm good, 720p or 1080p.
Consoles are a while off that for now but it's not impossible to see the next gen capable of resolutions like that when a modern PC can piss all over that.
If you want a proper side by side comparison just grab a screen shot from a multi platform console capture at 720p then scale it to 1080p using a basic photo editor, get the same scene captured from a PC version running at 1920x1080 then just do a side by side of the 2 images.
In terms of overall "at a glance" quality there's nothing immediately obvious, but if you take a closer look the visuals are usually much sharper looking; run a game benchmark at 1280x720 then at 1920x1080 and the 720p version will appear a lot blurrier.
What's much more important to me than true 1080p is proper anti-aliasing. I am getting sick of the sharp, pixelated edges, even in otherwise great looking games like Batman: Arkham Asylum or Darksiders.
It depends on the game really, I personally would rather they make the game it self look great then resolution be a 2nd placement instead of the other way around.
Because it's good marketing and MS/Sony/Game Manufacturers can define their products as supporting HD resolutions when in actual fact the majority of games are lower than 720p and hardware scaled up.
The way some HDTVs work, you couldn't output a 600p signal to display on the HDTV, you'd get a black screen. By supporting all the major HDTV resolutions it insures a TV will be able to actually display the signal.
@SeriouslyNow said:
in actual fact the majority of games are lower than 720p and hardware scaled up.
The fact is the majority of 360 / PS3 games are 720p, but there are a fair number of lower resolution games. Proof.
" Dude how many games really are native 1080p? I've seen games running 1080p upscaled and 720p side by side. There really isn't much difference. "
Oh my dear god,...... Get your eyes checked I've been a pc gamer quie a while and difference is as big as sdtv to 720p "
IMO the difference between 1680x1050 and 1920x1080 is also pretty huge. At 1080p you can get away with no anti-aliasing, and it will still look amazing.
The way some HDTVs work, you couldn't output a 600p signal to display on the HDTV, you'd get a black screen. By supporting all the major HDTV resolutions it insures a TV will be able to actually display the signal.
@SeriouslyNow said:
in actual fact the majority of games are lower than 720p and hardware scaled up.
The fact is the majority of 360 / PS3 games are 720p, but there are a fair number of lower resolution games. Proof. "
The XBOX 360 1080p supported games is a grand total of 5, with one of those being an Arcade cheapie. Awesome HD gaming console FTW
in actual fact the majority of games are lower than 720p and hardware scaled up.
The fact is the majority of 360 / PS3 games are 720p, but there are a fair number of lower resolution games. Proof. "
The XBOX 360 1080p supported games is a grand total of 5, with one of those being an Arcade cheapie. Awesome HD gaming console FTW "
There are more Xbox 360 games than that list and I know of one (an even cheapier arcade game by the name of Jetpack Refuelled) that also renders in 1080p. But that's beside the point. Hey I don't argue that the 360 is some 1080p rendering super high end dynamo, but I also don't spread BS about most 360/PS3 games running in lower than 720p. The facts are the facts, gotta see things as they really are. Don't fool yourself either way, for some reason people seem to have a problem seeing things as they are. But hell I don't even play PC games in 1080p, and I'd probably be pretty sad about running Crysis on my GTX260 maxed at 1080p at 15fps even if I had found an acceptable non-TFT-TN panel that had 1080p.
The larger the screen the more you will notice the difference between 720p and 1080p content. On my 32" Sharp LCD not really a difference. On my Mitsubishi projector going to a 110" screen it's more noticeable.
Maybe it was a trick of the eye, but I know that when I moved from a 720p/1080i TV to a full 1080p set, I noticed the difference on my PS3. I didn't on my 360 but that probably because my Xbox uses component cables. It's a near-launch system, so there is no HDMI in the back. The most immediate thing I noticed was I could clearly read the text on my PS3 XMB. It was blurry before on my older 720p TV. And, I also noticed a sharperness with my Blu-Ray movies. Game-wise, the text-thing carried over, but I don't think there was a big difference in graphics. When I looked at Resistance: Fall of Man recently, it looked pretty much the same as it did on my older set.
" @bdhost05: At first mgs4 was rumored to be running sub 720p at 576p or something, then now the updated info is
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriot
= 1024x768 (2xAA, temporal) "
That's actually not bad at all - it's an anamorphic 4:3 image, so the pixel density is going to be pretty high before it's stretched. There are more vertical pixels than 720p, so you almost get a vertical super-sampling effect when it scales down. This would slightly offset the blur you get when the image is stretched horizontally. 2xAA also does a good job of getting rid of the jaggies. When playing MGS4 or Yakuza 3 (which uses the exact same resolution and AA method), never did I think it looked blurry, so I think they handled the resolution very well. Full 720p is the best case scenario on PS3, but I think this is the next best thing. Infinity Ward should take notes - Modern Warfare 2's low resolution is pretty painful in comparison.
Because the console's upscalers, especially the 360's, rock. In fact, they are unbelievably good. They are significantly better than any scaling your TV or receiver would do.
So to answer the TC's question: Is there a huge difference between 720p and 1080p? Depending on the quality of your TV and output method, yes, BUT most games aren't true 1080p BUT 1080p as upscaled by the console is still noticably better and sharper than the game's original resolution scaled to 1080p by your TV.
Good? Good. There's a considerable difference between "Oh, its just an upscaled sub-1080p image.." and "Its a sub-1080p image as upscaled by HD console hardware".
Feed a TV or computer monitor with a native Halo 3 image and let it do the scaling, then run the console scaled 1080p version besides that. Huge difference.
If both the source and ouput can handle 1080p, you should see a big difference. Problem is, as other have stated, there aren't too many games with native 1080p.
Playing on a 1080P screen is always going to be better, even if you're playing a 720P game simply because 1080P TV's usually have very high contrast ratios which contribute greatly to picture quality.
" Playing on a 1080P screen is always going to be better, even if you're playing a 720P game simply because 1080P TV's usually have very high contrast ratios which contribute greatly to picture quality. "
No, this really depends on device. A good, high quality HDready TV will produce a much, much better image than a bargain FullHD TV.
" Playing on a 1080P screen is always going to be better, even if you're playing a 720P game simply because 1080P TV's usually have very high contrast ratios which contribute greatly to picture quality. "
No, this really depends on device. A good, high quality HDready TV will produce a much, much better image than a bargain FullHD TV. "
Which is why I mentioned the fact that most 1080P TV's have at the very LEAST a 50 000:1 contrast ratio. Bargain HD TV's are at like 2000:1 and shouldn't even be considered full HD.
@Slippy: The X768 resolution might not be progressive and it's a really low resolution my monitor supports. Sometimes 720p is higher on the list dependiing on the game, i'm not exactly sure. Also you should see the framerates for that game, it's sub 30, it's in the low 20's sometimes if you read the data on it which isn't exactly something infinity ward as you said should take notes on.
Also i'm a pc gamer, those resolutions, anti aliasing or framerates, doesn't impress me at. We get whatever resolution our monitor can support, real resolution, no scaling and we get as much AA as our games will allow and as much framerates as we can afford for a videocard.
God I was so pissed when Uncharted was only 720. It actually looks better on my 26" TV (720p) than my dad' 60" (1080p) one because I can see that it clearly wasn't meant for it. Bascially lotta jaggies and stuff, and text wasn't as sharp as I've come to like it.
"God I was so pissed when Uncharted was only 720. It actually looks better on my 26" TV (720p) than my dad' 60" (1080p) one because I can see that it clearly wasn't meant for it. Bascially lotta jaggies and stuff, and text wasn't as sharp as I've come to like it. "
You know, I also played the ps3 on my monitor which is at a higher resolution, I know exactly what you mean. It has to do with scaling, you can't use less pixels and try to fit that on a higher monitor or hdtv without stretching the pixels which will make it blurrier. The thing is that it fits your native resolution 26" hdtv better and exact match and the screen is smaller which will make the pixels closer together making it sharper. I'm probally saying stuff you already know, however I was suprised when I saw uncharted 2 on my lcd monitor. Also my hdtv is big, the pixels will be futher apart and maybe it makes 720p games less sharp.
XII_Sniper & HitmanAgent47: I don't know, sounds like bad panels / bad configuration to me. Almost every 360 / PS3 game is 720p natively, but they should still look better or at least as good on a proper 1080p display with the respective console's hardware scaler.
I put Bayonetta, which is true 720p natively on my 1080p display and it looked incredible.
" Playing on a 1080P screen is always going to be better, even if you're playing a 720P game simply because 1080P TV's usually have very high contrast ratios which contribute greatly to picture quality. "
No, this really depends on device. A good, high quality HDready TV will produce a much, much better image than a bargain FullHD TV. "
Which is why I mentioned the fact that most 1080P TV's have at the very LEAST a 50 000:1 contrast ratio. Bargain HD TV's are at like 2000:1 and shouldn't even be considered full HD. "
wat?
Contrast ratio has nothing to do with resolution and most TVs are advertised with inflated dynamic contrast ratio numbers, which are never accurate. The lower numbers around 1000:1 are usually the static dynamic contrast ratio which is a more accurate measurement of contrast. Never believe the dynamic ratio bs.
The Xbox component cables do NOT support 1080p, you have to have HDMI for that, AND make sure the HDMI cable you buy is rated to carry a 1080p signal, as a lot of the bottom end bargain cables don't.
As for the overall effect, the difference is there, it is notable, you could tell which image was which side by side, but I wouldnt compare it to the leap from SD to HD.
I remember the dudes from Naughty Dog saying the 1080p on Uncharted: Drake's Fortune was bullshit, or something like that, so I don't really care much for that. Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 had 1080p and see how shitty the graphics were. The resolution does not affect the end result if they are native 720p and then upscaled to 1080p, although native 1080p games might be slightly superior. But, in the end, it doesn't really make much of a difference.
I might be wrong though, this is my opinion based on what I've heard.
Log in to comment