Is Nintendo still serious about business?

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wackojackman

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#1  Edited By wackojackman

Ok this may be a pretty repeated forum topic but I only just signed up to the big G-Bomb yesterday, and missed all the E3 forum topic discussions...


When Nintendo released the Wii it seemed they were promising a console and more, but now it seems that we got just the "more" part and less of the console. As this generation of consoles goes on Nintendo seem to be more focusing on releasing the latest in peripheral, targeting the MAYBE's (cos Nintendo don't give a flying !@£$%^&* about the NEVER's) who come in the form of unfit soccer mom's. This has left the ACTIVE/ more hardcore gamers in the dark more or less as Nintendo and 3rd parties seem to be focusing on gimmick driven games titles "... party". 
Yes "but they announced Other M and new Super Mario!!!" i hear you cry, but does nobody else see this as false hope as Nintendo now resort to milking franchises. 
This does seem like an random attack on Nintendo, I was once a proud Wii owner but then once I was done with Super Smash Bros Brawl (a lot quicker than I thought thanks to fluffed up online) I realized there was nothing left to look forward to. As the big pushes from Nintendo was Wii Music and Wii Fit. 
I am just wanting a wider more opinionated view on this topic to see if Nintendo fans are still taking Nintendo seriously and thinking whether they think Nintendo is still taking itself seriously.

are these the Actives?...
are these the Actives?...




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JoelTGM

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#2  Edited By JoelTGM

Yup, the little pricks you see in that image you posted are Nintendo's target audience.  I wouldn't wait around for it to get better.

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The_A_Drain

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#3  Edited By The_A_Drain

Considering it's raking in the profits i'd say it can take itself as seriously as it likes. They clearly have more business sense than most 'hardcore' gamers will have you believe, they saw a golden opportunity and went for it, and it payed out better than the golden goose. So yeah, they still care about business.

Edit: And they obviously still care about us hobbyist gamers because Metroid + Team Ninja is fucking WIN.

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Alex_V

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#4  Edited By Alex_V

I don't know any unfit soccer moms (more's the pity), but the Wii has been a huge success in my household. SMG is probably my favourite game of this gen. Obviously some people haven't had such a good time with the Wii, which is a pity, but don't spoil the fun for the rest of us :).

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TheKidNixon

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#5  Edited By TheKidNixon

Nintendo's bank roll thinks that they're business model is doing just fine. The fact that they aren't catering to the same market (IE, us) is the exact reason why they're doing as well as they are. They realized at some point that they were losing the race against Microsoft and Sony when it came to the traditional game audience, and they weren't interested in trying to keep up with the technology arms race, mainly because it was going to cost so much R&D money. (Nintendo's bottom line always been number one priority.)

So no, Nintendo hasn't lost the plot. If anything, they redefined who can be moved from the "MAYBE" to the "ACTIVE," and yes, those people in your picture? They are actives, because they're playing a Nintendo product.

On a sidenote, as much as we all are amused by the "NEVER" thing, doesn't it make sense to not sweat over ever appealing to people who under no circumstances will ever be interested in interactive entertainment? This is business 101: knowing your market and knowing your possible growth market. Nintendo just went out of their way to point out that there is a third group that most people don't discuss...

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Meowayne

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#6  Edited By Meowayne
This does seem like an random attack on Nintendo, I was once a proud Wii owner but then once I was done with Super Smash Bros Brawl (a lot quicker than I thought thanks to fluffed up online) I realized there was nothing left to look forward to.

Then you're just oblivious.

Top 50 Wii games
Top 50 Wii announcements

Nintendo as a game manufacturer has taken a completely different path, one that many people have every right to dislike. But that is no excuse not to inform yourself / try out what others do now that the Big N is not overshadowing traditional sales anymore. The Wii is now in it's third year, arguably it's best.

Even the blockheads in the slum of video game boards, the System Wars of gamespot, have come to realize that. That amazes even me.

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Linkyshinks

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#7  Edited By Linkyshinks

Is Nintendo still serious about business?


Nintendo is Japan’s second largest company by market capitalisation behind Toyota... 

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wackojackman

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#8  Edited By wackojackman
@TheKidNixon: I like your point about the losing race to Microsoft and Sony, they took a new approach and is paid off. This post is just from a frustrated gamer who bought a Wii looking forward to many new innovative interpretations of serious games. But you are right, they touched on a new market and its paying off BIG TIME!!! 
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Al3xand3r

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#9  Edited By Al3xand3r

Nintendo now resort to milking franchises? Wat? I think you remember a different Nintendo than I do if you really think they've changed so much. It's always been about their major franchises and a few oddities here and there, and that's what they continue to do. And what Meo said.

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wackojackman

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#10  Edited By wackojackman
@Meowayne: ok you opened my eyes as I read through your lists I felt more and more ashamed for creating such a forum, though I gave up my Wii a year ago I just was more stating this because I feel that they push the wrong games, as on TV all i see is casual games (which I get is now their target market and resultantly has pushed the Wii to greatest success) but also from E3 I was waiting for something more than just 2 games when comparing to Sony and Microsoft, but I guess that is why i switched to 360, almost a terrible idea posting such a forum on my part, i should run for cover i think you guys are out for my blood haha. 
thanks for the feedback 
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Linkyshinks

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#11  Edited By Linkyshinks

Don't be surprised if you see more games shown later this year at a Nintendo held event sometime around September or October. There are more great games coming form them, you just have to be patient.

Aside from their games, their are some awesome looking third party games coming out this year, games like Muramasa. They should be enough to keep most fans happy until we see evidence of Kid Icarus and Pikmin 3 and the likes.

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wackojackman

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#12  Edited By wackojackman
@Linkyshinks: ah good news with the evidence of those games, I think I must be acting out and only just realizing that I must have bought the wrong console in the first place haha 
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kuwabaratheman

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#13  Edited By kuwabaratheman

I don't have any problem with what Nintendo has done. Yes, they've put out games like Wii Fit and the like which don't really appeal to me (or many of us here), but they've also put out plenty of great first party games, too. It's not really an either/or type situation. If they can put out Wii Fit and Brawl within two months of each other (which they did), then they're essentially getting the best of both worlds.

And with 3rd party support really ramping up this year, it seems like the Wii's potential is being more and more utilized each day.

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Meowayne

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#14  Edited By Meowayne

Wii Fit is a brilliant application, btw.

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wackojackman

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#15  Edited By wackojackman
@Meowayne: it never appealed to me, I think I have come to terms that I am just into the wrong games to be that much of a fan of Nintendo's output. I stand ashamed. 
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#16  Edited By AgentJ

It always makes me sad when people try to say that Nintendo is only putting out casual games and franchise-milkers. Yes, they have both of those, but Nintendo uses them so much because no one ever pays attention to the ORIGINAL games and properties they put out. 

Excitebots? Legend of Starfy? Elite Beat Agents?  Pikmin? ASH? Battalion Wars? Chibi Robo?  Custom Robo? Disaster Day of Crisis? Drill Dozer? Electroplankton? Endless Ocean? Eternal Darkness? Advance Wars? Fire Emblem? Geist? Golden Sun? Hotel Dusk? Odama? Professor Layton? Rhythm Heaven? Trace Memory?
Each of those are original Nintendo IP's from the last two generatoins. Saying that Nintendo just makes casual games and entries in their big franchises is just wrong. 
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Video_Game_King

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#17  Edited By Video_Game_King

Wait, how does openly (key word) catering to the casual crowd indicate a lack of serious business motivation? If anything, it indicates a greater business motivation.

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#18  Edited By Dalai

Seeing as how Nintendo has made money off every piece of hardware they made at least since the Gamecube era and they're now first in the sales wars, they take business seriously.

Go after the actives and the maybes... and fuck the NEVER crowd.  That's Nintendo's policy.

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#19  Edited By ThomasP

Nintendo are the best of the big three when it comes to business in the console market. They pretty much started the market back in the 80's... this gen they've expanded it. They pretty much own the portable gaming market.

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#20  Edited By The_A_Drain
@AgentJ said:
"It always makes me sad when people try to say that Nintendo is only putting out casual games and franchise-milkers. Yes, they have both of those, but Nintendo uses them so much because no one ever pays attention to the ORIGINAL games and properties they put out. 
Excitebots? Legend of Starfy? Elite Beat Agents?  Pikmin? ASH? Battalion Wars? Chibi Robo?  Custom Robo? Disaster Day of Crisis? Drill Dozer? Electroplankton? Endless Ocean? Eternal Darkness? Advance Wars? Fire Emblem? Geist? Golden Sun? Hotel Dusk? Odama? Professor Layton? Rhythm Heaven? Trace Memory?
Each of those are original Nintendo IP's from the last two generatoins. Saying that Nintendo just makes casual games and entries in their big franchises is just wrong. 
"

I'm down with the sentiment, but most of them are not Nintendo's creation, Geist, Eternal Darkness, Hotel Dusk, Starfy, and I don't know for definite but i'd wager a fair share of the others. In fact, the only one I know from that list that is definately Nintendo's doing (aside from Pikmin) is Fire Emblem and Advance Wars by Intelligent Systems which is a developer formed from members of Nintendos R and D division.

You're mistaking publisher for developer, they are not the same thing.

Also, anyone who ever mentions Disaster: Day of Crisis positively, is utterly insane, that game is beyond atrocious, it's bordering unplayable.
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Bigandtasty

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#21  Edited By Bigandtasty

serious about business? they're making bank why would they not be serious

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wackojackman

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#22  Edited By wackojackman
@Bigandtasty: ok i take the fact i worded my title EXTREMELY poorly i was kinda more or less aiming for whether they were serious about games, sorry I am hated extremely right now but kinda meant more about the games. 
i am hated so much right now haha 
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wackojackman

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#23  Edited By wackojackman
@The_A_Drain: you get it haha sorry for the badly worded title but i was meaning more or less about Nintendo themselves as serious game developers not as a company, bad wording and what was meant to be debate has turned to an attack on my life... run! 
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#24  Edited By Al3xand3r
@The_A_Drain said:
"I'm down with the sentiment, but most of them are not Nintendo's creation, Geist, Eternal Darkness, Hotel Dusk, Starfy, and I don't know for definite but i'd wager a fair share of the others. In fact, the only one I know from that list that is definately Nintendo's doing (aside from Pikmin) is Fire Emblem and Advance Wars by Intelligent Systems which is a developer formed from members of Nintendos R and D division.You're mistaking publisher for developer, they are not the same thing.Also, anyone who ever mentions Disaster: Day of Crisis positively, is utterly insane, that game is beyond atrocious, it's bordering unplayable. "
They contract the games and own some of the IPs. I'd lump Sin & Punishment 2 with them since they contracted Treasure themselves, Treasure wasn't making it and pitched it to Nintendo, they were contracted just for that, so without Nintendo it wouldn't have been made. The same goes for many of the other games listed. As for Disaster, it may not have ended up great, but it still shows a will to try new things. Monolith Soft is an RPG developer but Nintendo allowed them to try doing this. It didn't work out, oh well, whatever. Monolith Soft is doing an RPG now, it should be great. Retro Studios is bound to be working on something as well. Nintendo really has a diverse lineup, in house, 2nd party and from contracted third parties, while support from other third parties keeps increasing. And again, for the milking and casual games, they've always done that. How many Mario Party games were there before even the Wii was announced? At least 7. Nintendo hasn't changed in the ways people claim to put them down.
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#25  Edited By Swick

Well, define "serious about business." Are they seriously interested in making money? Of course. I'd say that was there primary motivator in going the Wii direction. But they definately aren't trying to cater to the "hardcore" demographic. Personally, I find their strategy to be rather alienating to the people who grew up with their games.

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The_A_Drain

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#26  Edited By The_A_Drain
@Al3xand3r:

Some, but not all, was my point. And often, a developer will pitch their own IP, and the terms of the contract in order to secure funding dictate that Nintendo gain the rights to the IP, so while Nintendo might own a lot of the IPs, that doesn't for a second mean all of them were Nintendo's ideas, they just happened to put up the funding. I'm just trying to make a clear distinction here so that people understand what often happens, people claim responsibility for something they did not do. Nintendo put out a great deal of quality products themselves, but the majority of that list posted does not contain products created by Nintendo, maybe paid for and owned by, but that just means they secured a nice dealio in the negotiations, doesn't mean they came up with the idea.
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#27  Edited By Bigandtasty
@wackojackman said:
" @Bigandtasty: ok i take the fact i worded my title EXTREMELY poorly i was kinda more or less aiming for whether they were serious about games, sorry I am hated extremely right now but kinda meant more about the games. 
i am hated so much right now haha 
"
Yeah man I'm just giving you a hard time. If I were a hardcore with only a Wii I would probably be frustrated too.
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wackojackman

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#28  Edited By wackojackman
@Swick: thats what i was trying to get at, thanks for sticking with my point i was reffering more to the games than business poor wording haha sorry 
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Nasar7

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#29  Edited By Nasar7

Nintendo has never been more serious about its business than they are now. Don't you see the (probably literal) mountains of cash they are raking in this generation?

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#30  Edited By AgentJ
@The_A_Drain said:
"
@AgentJ said:
"It always makes me sad when people try to say that Nintendo is only putting out casual games and franchise-milkers. Yes, they have both of those, but Nintendo uses them so much because no one ever pays attention to the ORIGINAL games and properties they put out. 
Excitebots? Legend of Starfy? Elite Beat Agents?  Pikmin? ASH? Battalion Wars? Chibi Robo?  Custom Robo? Disaster Day of Crisis? Drill Dozer? Electroplankton? Endless Ocean? Eternal Darkness? Advance Wars? Fire Emblem? Geist? Golden Sun? Hotel Dusk? Odama? Professor Layton? Rhythm Heaven? Trace Memory?
Each of those are original Nintendo IP's from the last two generatoins. Saying that Nintendo just makes casual games and entries in their big franchises is just wrong. 
"

I'm down with the sentiment, but most of them are not Nintendo's creation, Geist, Eternal Darkness, Hotel Dusk, Starfy, and I don't know for definite but i'd wager a fair share of the others. In fact, the only one I know from that list that is definately Nintendo's doing (aside from Pikmin) is Fire Emblem and Advance Wars by Intelligent Systems which is a developer formed from members of Nintendos R and D division.You're mistaking publisher for developer, they are not the same thing.Also, anyone who ever mentions Disaster: Day of Crisis positively, is utterly insane, that game is beyond atrocious, it's bordering unplayable. "
So then surely Metroid Prime doesnt count., since that was Retro Studios. Metroid Other M wont count since that's Team Ninja. None of the star fox games will count since that's been intellegent systems, rare, and namco. F-Zero GX doesn't count since that was Sega, many of the mario sports games wont count, and so on. 
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freakin

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#31  Edited By freakin

So because you don't understand their marketing and direction suddenly you've concluded they aren't serious.  The people that 'rebel' against motion controls also fail to see anything past their initial unwillingness to jump on the bandwagon, yes the original Wii mote wasn't what Nintendo promised but from all accounts it seems the motion plus basically is what they initially promised.   If all you want though is the latest in high tech graphics and Ai then well it shouldn't surprise you that the Wii is just not going to be capable of that.   I personally believe the games on the Wii will just get better from here as developers start to realize that the Wii is not just the place for a quickly slapped together social experience and some real meaty games that both use the motion plus well and have some serious polish start coming out.   Remember by all accounts the Wii wasn't expected to succeed, and when it did developers basically scrambled trying to deliver some half assed games to make a quick buck, now that more focus is shown to the Wii and entire divisions of game developers are focussed on delivering games to the Wii and it's giant consumer base things should get better for the Wii gamer.

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#32  Edited By oldschool

I think Nintendo's success pretty much answers the question yes.


Any other view is just anti-Nintendo bias and void of logic.
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#33  Edited By Bass

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo is dead serious about business. They are doing exactly what they have to do to make a boatload of money, and they don't care who they hurt in the process. What they are doing is happening specifically because they are serious about doing business. By appealing to a previously untapped market, Nintendo is doing more business than ever, and if that means they have to put less concentration into the "core" gamer, then that is absolutely what they will do.

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Suicrat

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#34  Edited By Suicrat
@wackojackman: They're making shitloads of money. You're not going to convince them to change their strategy when it's working BEYOND THEIR WILDEST DREAMS. Crappy games that sell well = less cost input, more revenue output.
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The_A_Drain

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#35  Edited By The_A_Drain
@AgentJ said:
"
@The_A_Drain said:
"
@AgentJ said:
"It always makes me sad when people try to say that Nintendo is only putting out casual games and franchise-milkers. Yes, they have both of those, but Nintendo uses them so much because no one ever pays attention to the ORIGINAL games and properties they put out. 
Excitebots? Legend of Starfy? Elite Beat Agents?  Pikmin? ASH? Battalion Wars? Chibi Robo?  Custom Robo? Disaster Day of Crisis? Drill Dozer? Electroplankton? Endless Ocean? Eternal Darkness? Advance Wars? Fire Emblem? Geist? Golden Sun? Hotel Dusk? Odama? Professor Layton? Rhythm Heaven? Trace Memory?
Each of those are original Nintendo IP's from the last two generatoins. Saying that Nintendo just makes casual games and entries in their big franchises is just wrong. 
"

I'm down with the sentiment, but most of them are not Nintendo's creation, Geist, Eternal Darkness, Hotel Dusk, Starfy, and I don't know for definite but i'd wager a fair share of the others. In fact, the only one I know from that list that is definately Nintendo's doing (aside from Pikmin) is Fire Emblem and Advance Wars by Intelligent Systems which is a developer formed from members of Nintendos R and D division.You're mistaking publisher for developer, they are not the same thing.Also, anyone who ever mentions Disaster: Day of Crisis positively, is utterly insane, that game is beyond atrocious, it's bordering unplayable. "
So then surely Metroid Prime doesnt count., since that was Retro Studios. Metroid Other M wont count since that's Team Ninja. None of the star fox games will count since that's been intellegent systems, rare, and namco. F-Zero GX doesn't count since that was Sega, many of the mario sports games wont count, and so on. 
"

See no you're just being ridiculous.

Companies outsource stuff and enter into joint projects all the time.

But equally as often, studios will approach a console manufacturer for funding in exchange for IP rights and exclusivity. Metroid, F-Zero and Mario sports games etc are Nintendo IPs that have been outsourced, the ones I called you out on are the opposite. Companies have approached Nintendo with those, not the other way around.

Edit: Here you go if you don't believe me, an article providing concrete evidence for one example, Starfy, the IP belongs to Tose and is simply funded and published by Nintendo. (And is actually a long running series in Japan, we are only seeing it for the first time in the west now)
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23614
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#36  Edited By meptron

it is because nintendo takes business seriously that they have this new target audience.

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Al3xand3r

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#37  Edited By Al3xand3r
@freakin said:
" So because you don't understand their marketing and direction suddenly you've concluded they aren't serious.  The people that 'rebel' against motion controls also fail to see anything past their initial unwillingness to jump on the bandwagon, yes the original Wii mote wasn't what Nintendo promised but from all accounts it seems the motion plus basically is what they initially promised. "
Um, the remote is everything they promised and the motion plus is everything they promised for that. The concept of 1:1 motion was never advertised prior, the technology wasn't available, and nobody in his right mind could have been "fooled" into buying the Wii with false expectations considering all the hands-on sessions months before launch. The existing pointer function did revolutionise console controls, while the limited motion sensors can add their own touch when implemented properly, as they are in Wii Sports and other titles.

@Drain: Ok so they fund those games. Isn't that great? It still shows their interest in and acceptance of such titles, going the opposite of people claiming they don't care for the "hardcore" (lol) anymore. And for other titles they were the ones to approach the developers. Nobody said they made those games, but their involvement with many is undeniably a good thing...
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freakin

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#38  Edited By freakin
@Al3xand3r said:
"
@freakin said:
" So because you don't understand their marketing and direction suddenly you've concluded they aren't serious.  The people that 'rebel' against motion controls also fail to see anything past their initial unwillingness to jump on the bandwagon, yes the original Wii mote wasn't what Nintendo promised but from all accounts it seems the motion plus basically is what they initially promised. "
Um, the remote is everything they promised and the motion plus is everything they promised for that. The concept of 1:1 motion was never advertised prior, the technology wasn't available, and nobody in his right mind could have been "fooled" into buying the Wii with false expectations considering all the hands-on sessions months before launch. The existing pointer function did revolutionise console controls, while the limited motion sensors can add their own touch when implemented properly, as they are in Wii Sports and other titles.

@Drain: Ok so they fund those games. Isn't that great? It still shows their interest in and acceptance of such titles, going the opposite of people claiming they don't care for the "hardcore" (lol) anymore. And for other titles they were the ones to approach the developers. Nobody said they made those games, but their involvement with many is undeniably a good thing... "



congrats, you found one little tiny sentence to disagree with.  You completely missed the point I was making around that sentence though.  I'm stating what people's complaints are about the Wii and that they aren't willing to let go of those same points even after Nintendo makes efforts to make those points moot.   It sounds like you like the Wii, so much so that you aren't willing to even say for a second there isn't anything they might've done wrong. 
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AgentJ

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#39  Edited By AgentJ
@The_A_Drain said:
"
@AgentJ said:
"
@The_A_Drain said:
"
@AgentJ said:
"It always makes me sad when people try to say that Nintendo is only putting out casual games and franchise-milkers. Yes, they have both of those, but Nintendo uses them so much because no one ever pays attention to the ORIGINAL games and properties they put out. 
Excitebots? Legend of Starfy? Elite Beat Agents?  Pikmin? ASH? Battalion Wars? Chibi Robo?  Custom Robo? Disaster Day of Crisis? Drill Dozer? Electroplankton? Endless Ocean? Eternal Darkness? Advance Wars? Fire Emblem? Geist? Golden Sun? Hotel Dusk? Odama? Professor Layton? Rhythm Heaven? Trace Memory?
Each of those are original Nintendo IP's from the last two generatoins. Saying that Nintendo just makes casual games and entries in their big franchises is just wrong. 
"

I'm down with the sentiment, but most of them are not Nintendo's creation, Geist, Eternal Darkness, Hotel Dusk, Starfy, and I don't know for definite but i'd wager a fair share of the others. In fact, the only one I know from that list that is definately Nintendo's doing (aside from Pikmin) is Fire Emblem and Advance Wars by Intelligent Systems which is a developer formed from members of Nintendos R and D division.You're mistaking publisher for developer, they are not the same thing.Also, anyone who ever mentions Disaster: Day of Crisis positively, is utterly insane, that game is beyond atrocious, it's bordering unplayable. "
So then surely Metroid Prime doesnt count., since that was Retro Studios. Metroid Other M wont count since that's Team Ninja. None of the star fox games will count since that's been intellegent systems, rare, and namco. F-Zero GX doesn't count since that was Sega, many of the mario sports games wont count, and so on. 
"

See no you're just being ridiculous.

Companies outsource stuff and enter into joint projects all the time.

But equally as often, studios will approach a console manufacturer for funding in exchange for IP rights and exclusivity. Metroid, F-Zero and Mario sports games etc are Nintendo IPs that have been outsourced, the ones I called you out on are the opposite. Companies have approached Nintendo with those, not the other way around.

Edit: Here you go if you don't believe me, an article providing concrete evidence for one example, Starfy, the IP belongs to Tose and is simply funded and published by Nintendo. (And is actually a long running series in Japan, we are only seeing it for the first time in the west now)
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23614 "
Sorry, pretend i didn't say anything. I'm particularly drained today (see what i did there?) thanks to the math final i took today. I sure hope i passed it, because next quarter will suck if i didnt. And with that my sabbatical starts. I'll see you homies 11 days from now!
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leeto

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#40  Edited By leeto

Guys we are what, three years into the Wii and there's still people complaining about the Wii's "target" demographic?  Surely by now you can come to terms that yes the majority of software out for the Wii is for a demographic that is probably different from you, but you can't say they aren't catering to the "hardcores," that's just a retarded blind statement. I can think of an enormous amount of games that cater to traditional gamer tastes, and they're good games to boot. Plus you've got great looking games like the new Silent Hill (which looks amazing) and Other M coming up. Both of these games are made by battle-hardened developers, are you saying they're not up to the challenge and their games are a lost hope? 


So is Nintendo still serious about business? You bet they are. They're doing what they do best, which is making good games on established franchises with new stuff every now and then. It's what they've been doing ALL THIS TIME. If you can make a large profit doing one thing, why would you change it after so many years of success with it? From a business standpoint Nintendo is on top of their game, and they will be for years to come because they've finally figured out how to penetrate a new Western market.

Come on.