Regarding used games and collections...

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ColinC

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Edited By ColinC

About a month or so ago I decided to buy Need for Speed: Underground. I’d never actually owned the game, but after watching Tokyo Drift (terrible, I know), I was compelled to play a street racing game. As I do with older titles, I went around to my local GameStops looking for a complete copy, and after finding nothing but crap for the longest time I finally happened upon a copy that (by GameStop standards) appeared to be in great shape.

No Caption Provided
So I bought the game, and went home… but for whatever reason, I didn’t get around to playing it until yesterday. However, finishing college (for the second time!) and the current economic situation has left me with a lot of free time, so when I’ve not been emailing companies my resume, I’ve been organizing and playing through my backlog of games. In other words, it was the perfect time to re-immerse myself in the world of illegal street racing.

Unfortunately, this is what greeted me when I opened the box:

No Caption Provided
Seriously? I mean, I know it’s my own fault for not checking everything out before I left the store, but even the clerk should have recognized that this copy of the game is not meant to reside in an original release box. And I know that I shouldn’t care so much about it, since it was only six dollars, but I still do… and I think my problem lies with the fact that in America (and GameStop in particular) view games as disposable and their condition irrelevant. That is, they’re not viewed as a collectable, something that will be kept, displayed, and played for an extended period of time.

To show the flip side of this, allow me to hold up my limited edition copy of Chu Chu Rocket for Dreamcast that I bought in Osaka, Japan.

No Caption Provided
I bought this at Super Potato, which is kind of like Mecca for used games in Japan. But Super Potato isn’t the only chain that deals in older games of immaculate quality; while in Akihabara, I went into dozens of game stores that had used games going back to the Famicom-era in complete condition. And I’m not talking about just the popular systems… it’s fairly easy to find complete copies of games like Virtual Fishing and Innsmouth House for Virtual Boy or Ogre Battle: Legend of the Zenobia Prince for Neo Geo Pocket just by searching a few used game stores.

No Caption Provided

One thing you’ll notice right away is the effort put into protecting the game. It’s been sealed in plastic, but not shrink-wrapped; instead, tougher (harder) plastic has been wrapped, folded, and taped onto the game as to protect it from dirt and moisture. Is this completely necessary? Probably not, but it does insure that the product you’re going to get is the same one that was sold to the store (that is, it has not degraded) and also shows the customer that the store cares as much as they do about games.

No Caption Provided


As you can see, everything is included and kept complete. And even though I bought it solely for the orange controller and don’t really need another copy of Chu Chu Rocket, it makes me happy that the set was kept together and the box not discarded. On the other hand, an American retailer like GameStop would have most likely bought the items as separate, discarded any external packaging, and sold the pieces individually; I remember buying GameCube dance pads for cheap after DDR Mario Mix had been out for a while, but passing on the game because it was priced above retail. Eventually, I did end up with a copy of the game, but it only made me wonder how may copies of the game were out there that had no corresponding pads because people had bought them separately….

---

So the question then becomes, what is different between Japanese gamers and American gamers that is creating this disparity in treatment and expectations of used games? I suppose part of this has to do with the business models and ideologies of game stores in both countries. In the United States, games are viewed as just that, games… and stores that have attempted to deal in them as something different, like FuncoLand, end up succumbing in the end. Most Americans don’t see games as being a collectable, and to them the ends justify the means… that is, if there is a game being played on their television set after they place the disc in their console, it doesn’t matter if the disc is scratched to hell and it’s come in a generic DVD case. And maybe it isn’t that Japanese gamers, on the whole, are much different… what is different, though, is the ones who are collectors (in the true sense of the word) are putting their money where their mouth is and keeping these businesses alive.

Jeremy Parish brought up two good points as to why this whole disparity between gaming cultures may have occurred. The first is that Japan is a much smaller country, and thus it’s much more practical to have stores that deal is specialized goods because they’re servicing a much smaller geographical footprint and a much denser population. It’s much more likely that a store like Super Potato will do well in Osaka or Tokyo than in a similar sized American city because not only do they see customers who live within their city, but because the country is not that big and relatively easy to travel around, clients from other towns as well. The second is that “Japanese gamers tend to pour a lot more money and attention into the things they enjoy… they tend to focus on single subjects into which they plunge deeply,” which further explains why these kinds of businesses are able to thrive in Japan and also why they deal in the quality of goods that they do. The irony of both of these points is that the United States has both more space to warrant such stores (and private collections) as well as a higher per capita income and lower cost of living when compared to Japan.

Personally, I’d love to see more stores like Play-N-Trade and (local favorite) Games 4 Less open and do well for themselves. And while I know the future of game collecting (at least in America) is going to be done primarily online, I can’t shake the feeling that it’s important to me to be able to go into a store and comb through the aisles and piles of games, and stumble upon something that I’d forgotten about… and be able to buy it and play it then and there. For me, games are still as much a toy as they are a collectable, and part of their draw is bringing me back to a time when I could spend hours in a Kay-Bee looking at the rows and rows of NES game boxes hanging on their pull-tabs behind the counter, harassing the clerk to let me look at the back of just one more game because I was pretty sure that was the one I wanted to get. As an adult, I want to be able to buy those games and experience them in the same way I would have as a child... from opening the box, reading the manual, to playing the game, it's all part of the attraction.
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ColinC

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#1  Edited By ColinC

About a month or so ago I decided to buy Need for Speed: Underground. I’d never actually owned the game, but after watching Tokyo Drift (terrible, I know), I was compelled to play a street racing game. As I do with older titles, I went around to my local GameStops looking for a complete copy, and after finding nothing but crap for the longest time I finally happened upon a copy that (by GameStop standards) appeared to be in great shape.

No Caption Provided
So I bought the game, and went home… but for whatever reason, I didn’t get around to playing it until yesterday. However, finishing college (for the second time!) and the current economic situation has left me with a lot of free time, so when I’ve not been emailing companies my resume, I’ve been organizing and playing through my backlog of games. In other words, it was the perfect time to re-immerse myself in the world of illegal street racing.

Unfortunately, this is what greeted me when I opened the box:

No Caption Provided
Seriously? I mean, I know it’s my own fault for not checking everything out before I left the store, but even the clerk should have recognized that this copy of the game is not meant to reside in an original release box. And I know that I shouldn’t care so much about it, since it was only six dollars, but I still do… and I think my problem lies with the fact that in America (and GameStop in particular) view games as disposable and their condition irrelevant. That is, they’re not viewed as a collectable, something that will be kept, displayed, and played for an extended period of time.

To show the flip side of this, allow me to hold up my limited edition copy of Chu Chu Rocket for Dreamcast that I bought in Osaka, Japan.

No Caption Provided
I bought this at Super Potato, which is kind of like Mecca for used games in Japan. But Super Potato isn’t the only chain that deals in older games of immaculate quality; while in Akihabara, I went into dozens of game stores that had used games going back to the Famicom-era in complete condition. And I’m not talking about just the popular systems… it’s fairly easy to find complete copies of games like Virtual Fishing and Innsmouth House for Virtual Boy or Ogre Battle: Legend of the Zenobia Prince for Neo Geo Pocket just by searching a few used game stores.

No Caption Provided

One thing you’ll notice right away is the effort put into protecting the game. It’s been sealed in plastic, but not shrink-wrapped; instead, tougher (harder) plastic has been wrapped, folded, and taped onto the game as to protect it from dirt and moisture. Is this completely necessary? Probably not, but it does insure that the product you’re going to get is the same one that was sold to the store (that is, it has not degraded) and also shows the customer that the store cares as much as they do about games.

No Caption Provided


As you can see, everything is included and kept complete. And even though I bought it solely for the orange controller and don’t really need another copy of Chu Chu Rocket, it makes me happy that the set was kept together and the box not discarded. On the other hand, an American retailer like GameStop would have most likely bought the items as separate, discarded any external packaging, and sold the pieces individually; I remember buying GameCube dance pads for cheap after DDR Mario Mix had been out for a while, but passing on the game because it was priced above retail. Eventually, I did end up with a copy of the game, but it only made me wonder how may copies of the game were out there that had no corresponding pads because people had bought them separately….

---

So the question then becomes, what is different between Japanese gamers and American gamers that is creating this disparity in treatment and expectations of used games? I suppose part of this has to do with the business models and ideologies of game stores in both countries. In the United States, games are viewed as just that, games… and stores that have attempted to deal in them as something different, like FuncoLand, end up succumbing in the end. Most Americans don’t see games as being a collectable, and to them the ends justify the means… that is, if there is a game being played on their television set after they place the disc in their console, it doesn’t matter if the disc is scratched to hell and it’s come in a generic DVD case. And maybe it isn’t that Japanese gamers, on the whole, are much different… what is different, though, is the ones who are collectors (in the true sense of the word) are putting their money where their mouth is and keeping these businesses alive.

Jeremy Parish brought up two good points as to why this whole disparity between gaming cultures may have occurred. The first is that Japan is a much smaller country, and thus it’s much more practical to have stores that deal is specialized goods because they’re servicing a much smaller geographical footprint and a much denser population. It’s much more likely that a store like Super Potato will do well in Osaka or Tokyo than in a similar sized American city because not only do they see customers who live within their city, but because the country is not that big and relatively easy to travel around, clients from other towns as well. The second is that “Japanese gamers tend to pour a lot more money and attention into the things they enjoy… they tend to focus on single subjects into which they plunge deeply,” which further explains why these kinds of businesses are able to thrive in Japan and also why they deal in the quality of goods that they do. The irony of both of these points is that the United States has both more space to warrant such stores (and private collections) as well as a higher per capita income and lower cost of living when compared to Japan.

Personally, I’d love to see more stores like Play-N-Trade and (local favorite) Games 4 Less open and do well for themselves. And while I know the future of game collecting (at least in America) is going to be done primarily online, I can’t shake the feeling that it’s important to me to be able to go into a store and comb through the aisles and piles of games, and stumble upon something that I’d forgotten about… and be able to buy it and play it then and there. For me, games are still as much a toy as they are a collectable, and part of their draw is bringing me back to a time when I could spend hours in a Kay-Bee looking at the rows and rows of NES game boxes hanging on their pull-tabs behind the counter, harassing the clerk to let me look at the back of just one more game because I was pretty sure that was the one I wanted to get. As an adult, I want to be able to buy those games and experience them in the same way I would have as a child... from opening the box, reading the manual, to playing the game, it's all part of the attraction.
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Lind_L_Taylor

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#2  Edited By Lind_L_Taylor

Man, failing college the first time through & having to take it all over again. That must've been rough!

Gamestop always has a shitty, thumb-print addled collection of games for sale. I never set foot in those stores nor do I buy from them online.

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ParanoidFreak

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#3  Edited By ParanoidFreak

I've had my local EB games employee try to sell me a used game as new a couple times too.

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FiestaUnicorn

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#4  Edited By FiestaUnicorn

If you're into collecting games that damn "greatest hits" label is a complete eyesore.  I try to avoid that thing whenever I can.

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ColinC

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#5  Edited By ColinC
Lind_L_Taylor said:
"Man, failing college the first time through & having to take it all over again. That must've been rough!"
Haha! No... I *graduated* for the second time. I just earned my Master's... hopefully no one else read this as me failing.
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NickL

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#6  Edited By NickL

I am one of those people that only buys games to play the game on the disc, but i still keep all my games i have ever bought, shoved away in some closet somewhere...  you never know when you will want to go back to playing something like a final fantasy game in the SNES just for the nostalgia of it!

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MattyFTM

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#7  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator

Sorry, but I don't see what the problem is. I was expecting the climax of the NFS bit to be that the game was broken or something, but you didn't say it was broken, and I don't see anything wrong with the instruction manual or disk.

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Jayge_

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#8  Edited By Jayge_
MattyFTM said:
"Sorry, but I don't see what the problem is. I was expecting the climax of the NFS bit to be that the game was broken or something, but you didn't say it was broken, and I don't see anything wrong with the instruction manual or disk."
I don't get it either. What was wrong?
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ColinC

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#9  Edited By ColinC
Jayge said:
"MattyFTM said:
"Sorry, but I don't see what the problem is. I was expecting the climax of the NFS bit to be that the game was broken or something, but you didn't say it was broken, and I don't see anything wrong with the instruction manual or disk."
I don't get it either. What was wrong?"
Sorry about that... probably more obvious to collectors. It's a Greatest Hits disc, even though the release is the original one. What isn't pictured (or mentioned) is that the disc looks like it was rubbed with sandpaper for a few hours.

The point of the post, though, was really about the treatment of games and maintaining their completeness. Someone went to the trouble of designing a case and writing a manual, and these were meant to stay together with the game. With the way that GameStop works, as long as a game goes in the case, it doesn't matter if that game originated in that case... which is somewhat disheartening, because a case that looks like a dog chewed on it for a while says a lot about what I should expect of the disc, and a case and manual that are in good condition without rips or spills says a lot as well.
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MattyFTM

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#10  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator

Greatest hits? Is that like the US version of the Playstation Platinum budget range thingy we have here in the UK?

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Icemael

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#11  Edited By Icemael
ColinC said:
"Jayge said:
Sorry about that... probably more obvious to collectors. It's a Greatest Hits disc, even though the release is the original one. What isn't pictured (or mentioned) is that the disc looks like it was rubbed with sandpaper for a few hours."
Dude, that's nothing. I bought a used copy of Fable: TLC at GameStop, and the disc in the box was the original Fable. Now that is something to complain about...
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#12  Edited By brukaoru
MattyFTM said:
"Greatest hits? Is that like the US version of the Playstation Platinum budget range thingy we have here in the UK?"
Yep, known as Greatest Hits in the US.
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MattyFTM

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#13  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator
brukaoru said:
"MattyFTM said:
"Greatest hits? Is that like the US version of the Playstation Platinum budget range thingy we have here in the UK?"
Yep, known as Greatest Hits in the US."
Cool. And I Guess it's identifiable by playstation 2 logo on the red background, rather than the conventional black? I'd have noticed if it was from the UK, and had the platinum disk in the standard box, but I was unfamiliar with the branding in the US.
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Captain_Fookup

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#14  Edited By Captain_Fookup

I was at EB Games last week picked up a bunch of used games, saw a copy of Hail to The Chimp for the 360 for 6 bucks brand new so I grabbed it. Got home I checked the receipt only to find out the case that the dickhead grabbed from behind the counter was for 34.99. Next day I went back and demanded the right price and  he claimed he made a mistake, which is complete bullshit. It's poor customer service like this that makes me just want to take my business to Lackluster Video.

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oboreruhito

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#15  Edited By oboreruhito

This'll just keep getting more disparate as people keep embracing DLC. Achievements and Trophies are the new common collectibles - all of the bragging rights, none of the wasted physical space. And none of the resale value, either, so publishers stay happy. A lot of people who were casual collectors just didn't want to let go of hard-to-find games or have to rent certain games frequently; those are the people who still buy physical media, but don't care if it's a Greatest Hits edition in a standard box.

Like the music industry, limited collector's editions with lots of extras will fill the void for hardcore collectors - and hey, that really will be more like Japan.

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azteris

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#16  Edited By azteris
Captain_Fookup said:
"I was at EB Games last week picked up a bunch of used games, saw a copy of Hail to The Chimp for the 360 for 6 bucks brand new so I grabbed it. Got home I checked the receipt only to find out the case that the dickhead grabbed from behind the counter was for 34.99. Next day I went back and demanded the right price and  he claimed he made a mistake, which is complete bullshit. It's poor customer service like this that makes me just want to take my business to Lackluster Video."
You didn't notice an extra $29 to your total? I don't feel bad for you.
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deactivated-5b6c667dde711

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Eh... I don't really like buying from game retailers anymore since they can rip you off in so many ways. My last purchase at EB was made on RE4 for the Wii. Picked the box off the shelf and since they keep the discs and manuals separate behind the counter, the clerk thought he could give me a second hand manual and game. Wasn't too happy.

Onto the main topic - I've read a few articles in the past about second hand game stores in Japan and it's remarkable, the length they'll actually go to keeping these games in good condition. Even if you find a boxed 90's game on ebay with all of its contents these days, in the event that they aren't worn you'll be paying a lot extra, whereas it seems that Japan is trying to make this the standard. I doubt America, Europe or Australia will ever be like that, though. :/

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Ben_H

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#18  Edited By Ben_H

The only way Japan could make their used game marketing strategy any better would be to infuse used games with that new game smell.

Between EB filling in their empty shelves with used copies of NHL 08 and the fact that their used games are priced nearly the same as new here;  I have no reason to go there anymore.  We have a really good local game store that has a really nice owner.  The policy at the store that is strictly enforced is to show you the disks before they give you the game.  They have done this every time I bought a used game there.   They lower the price drastically if the manual or box are not present and used games are buy one, get one half price.  Not to mention they had Road Rash for the Genesis for 5 bucks.  Last time I went there the owner was working and he gave me and a family that was there at the same time discounts for being loyal customers.

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#19  Edited By LordAndrew

As a collector, I feel your pain. That's definitely something you've got to watch out for. If you're buying used, make sure they let you see the disc before putting it in the case.

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sparky_buzzsaw

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#20  Edited By sparky_buzzsaw
Kowbrainz said:
Onto the main topic - I've read a few articles in the past about second hand game stores in Japan and it's remarkable, the length they'll actually go to keeping these games in good condition. Even if you find a boxed 90's game on ebay with all of its contents these days, in the event that they aren't worn you'll be paying a lot extra, whereas it seems that Japan is trying to make this the standard. I doubt America, Europe or Australia will ever be like that, though. :/"

To be fair, a lot of the "mom-and-pop" game stores that deal primarily in used games do a great job of trying to maintain game quality and console quality.  A few are shady, yeah, and I don't trust major retailers on used games, but the smaller stores seem to do pretty well with it.
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Captain_Fookup

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#21  Edited By Captain_Fookup
Azteris said:
"Captain_Fookup said:
"I was at EB Games last week picked up a bunch of used games, saw a copy of Hail to The Chimp for the 360 for 6 bucks brand new so I grabbed it. Got home I checked the receipt only to find out the case that the dickhead grabbed from behind the counter was for 34.99. Next day I went back and demanded the right price and  he claimed he made a mistake, which is complete bullshit. It's poor customer service like this that makes me just want to take my business to Lackluster Video."
You didn't notice an extra $29 to your total? I don't feel bad for you."

When I'm high I don't really pay much to that much money with the amount of money I make.
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StarwindX9

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#22  Edited By StarwindX9

I am actually a Gamestop employee. Honestly I hate how much people look down at us, but sitting on the outside and looking in, our company is pretty much despicable. I understand everything people have against the company. That should not reflect on your local store though. The online store is a garbage heap. But a local store should be a pretty good place to pick up a game. It all depends on the manager running the store. I have worked for many stores and managers. It is honestly in our best interest to help our customers and do anything for them. Unfortunately very little is in our control. It all boils down to how much a manager is willing to give up their bonus to help their customers. Sadly, customer satisfaction ranks very low for many greedy, by the book managers, but I have never minded telling a customer straight up if we are ripping them off or if somewhere else has a much better deal. I just hate buying games from places like wal-mart becuase 90% of their employees don't know jack about anything involving games.

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Captain_Fookup

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#23  Edited By Captain_Fookup
StarwindX9 said:
"I am actually a Gamestop employee. Honestly I hate how much people look down at us, but sitting on the outside and looking in, our company is pretty much despicable. I understand everything people have against the company. That should not reflect on your local store though. The online store is a garbage heap. But a local store should be a pretty good place to pick up a game. It all depends on the manager running the store. I have worked for many stores and managers. It is honestly in our best interest to help our customers and do anything for them. Unfortunately very little is in our control. It all boils down to how much a manager is willing to give up their bonus to help their customers. Sadly, customer satisfaction ranks very low for many greedy, by the book managers, but I have never minded telling a customer straight up if we are ripping them off or if somewhere else has a much better deal. I just hate buying games from places like wal-mart becuase 90% of their employees don't know jack about anything involving games."

At least when you buy a NEW game at Walmart you know it's NEW and not a game an employee has taken home or a used copy instead.
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StarwindX9

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#24  Edited By StarwindX9

First, a used game should never be new. That store manager is prolly just a greedy ass who is trying to improve in inventory. And sure, you could buy a non sealed copy. That would be one copy of tons, and honestly, you should be able to get a sealed copy unless it is the last copy in the store. I only buy sealed copies unless I am buying used.