I mean you are backtracking over the same exact level 6 or 7 times! That's why I liked the older Mario games better, because you got to see something different each time. That does not feel like it's the case in Mario 64, as you tend to see the same things over and over again, especially if there's a certain star that frustrates you.
Super Mario 64...is a repetitive game!
Yeah, I totally agree. You know, I was recently thinking about this while playing Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. In Nuts and Bolts, you go into a level 6 different times. Each time you're there, you either have several challenges (generally around 5 or so, and then a couple easier Jinjo challenges), or you have a boss fight with Gruntilda where you can unlock a new feature for your Trolley in Showdown Town. So basically it's set up with 6 doors to that level, which isn't all that dissimilar from how Super Mario 64 handled it. However, each different time you go to the level, it's generally changed quite considerably. It's especially apparent in Nutty Acres, which is an outdoor level where you can see all kinds of changes to the weather and other conditions, but it applies to all the levels. It's much more of a drastic change and a re-imagining of the levels than we saw in Super Mario 64.
Truthfully, I've never been crazy about Super Mario 64. Super Mario Sunshine kind of fixed this repeated level visit thing by changing things up a little, but it had some problems too. For instance, to get one particular shine, you had to collect 100 coins in the level. However, during the 6 or so different variations of the level, generally only one of those times had enough coins for you to collect 100. So other times, you could spend 20 minutes searching every single inch of a level, only to find that there aren't enough coins for that shine and you just wasted your time.
Newsflash buddy, games are repetitive by their very nature. In order to keep the computer program from exiting, it is necessary to continually loop through the same segment of code.
Regardless, all games are repetitive, but the better ones find ways to hide it from the player, given the memory limitations of the time, having players perform 10+ different tasks in a single level was pretty genius imo.
Far more modern games have been far worse for repetition in my eyes, things like Gears of War and Modern Warfare, while I love them to bits and personally don't think repetition is always a
bad thing, they are incredibly repetitive.
Actually almost none of the n64 games, including the much loved Zelda games, don't hold up today if you don't have a certain amount of nostalgia about them. That's why I've never been able to play any of them, even though I understand what made them great at the time they came out. When you take them out of context and try to play them today, they seem like a confusing, clunky mess. And I'm not talking about the graphics, that's probably the easiest thing to look over, but the overall game design.
I dunno, I still think Goldeneye holds up really well, easily one of the best at holding it's own today. That and stuff like Mischief Makers holds up well imo.
Just get here in your time machine? lol
Seriously though, I do take your point and see where you're coming from, but I disagree that it was straight repitition from level to level. Sure some of the things that you had to do were the same stuff (e.g. collect 8 red coins) but there was enough variation in the environments to keep things interesting, some looked similar but it was not like any were the same, all had their own challenges and obstacles. Nintendo did an excellent job in the move from 2D into 3D with Mario and I think the criticism that the whole game was repititive is a bit lame considering how awesome and fun it was. Also they were actually successful in the move unlike Sega, but that's another discussion.
Fine I might be a bit biased being a big Mario fan, but honestly, come on.
Back then it took 10 times more time to create a map. So they used the same map and put all the different stars in there. It is true that the map hardly ever changes, there are like 11 worlds, and they took 2 years of development. 2 months per map. I could create a map with paint and wordpad in a few weeks. It was more of a technologic thing, especially with 3d environments being very new to the industry.
I didn't think it was possible to critisize Mario 64. I find it a bid sad really, bearing in mind that each objective for each level is compleatly different and usually takes you to a new part of it. #
I do think Mario being the first truly 3d platform game holds up today and is still great.
I think you should prolly try a mmo and try some gather/kill quests if you want to know what repetative really means.
One of the biggest gaming disappointments ever for me, I hate 3D Mario, 2D is where it's at for Mario. Also it's butt ugly (even at the time), just like every game released for the N64 and PS1, SNES games still look good. F that generation, switched to PC back then.
Haha, gonna get hate for this. But I honestly feel this way.
So would you then consider Super Mario Galaxy to be repetitive?" I mean you are backtracking over the same exact level 6 or 7 times! That's why I liked the older Mario games better, because you got to see something different each time. That does not feel like it's the case in Mario 64, as you tend to see the same things over and over again, especially if there's a certain star that frustrates you. "
@DrFreeman said:
No longer a Nintendo fan, but I found I agree with DrFreeman here." Just get here in your time machine? lol Seriously though, I do take your point and see where you're coming from, but I disagree that it was straight repitition from level to level. Sure some of the things that you had to do were the same stuff (e.g. collect 8 red coins) but there was enough variation in the environments to keep things interesting, some looked similar but it was not like any were the same, all had their own challenges and obstacles. Nintendo did an excellent job in the move from 2D into 3D with Mario and I think the criticism that the whole game was repititive is a bit lame considering how awesome and fun it was. Also they were actually successful in the move unlike Sega, but that's another discussion. Fine I might be a bit biased being a big Mario fan, but honestly, come on. "
" @PeZ: I dunno, I still think Goldeneye holds up really well, easily one of the best at holding it's own today. That and stuff like Mischief Makers holds up well imo. "Wait. What? Goldeneye actually holds up very poorly. Primarily because as a genre the shooter has changed greatly since the release of Goldeneye. The genre is very dependent on graphics, frame rate, and control- all of which have improved so dramatically that Goldeneye is painful to play. Hell, its sequel Perfect Dark was out of date and painful to play upon release because the releases of Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 the year before had already moved the genre forward substantially. Ignoring PC releases, (which is hard to do since the genre was very PC driven for a decade) the control advances in the first Halo made it very difficult to go back to Goldeneye's horribly outdated scheme.
On the other hand, Mario 64 still holds up fairly well, despite its dated graphics, because very little actual progress has been made in its genre. With a brand new coat of paint and the remapping of the camera to a new fangled right stick it would still be the second or third best 3D platformer of the past decade. Partly because it was that innovative upon release, but mostly because the trickle of games in that genre has for the most part been slow and unremarkable.
@The_A_Drain said:
I never said anything of the sort. You are fully entitled to your opinion that Goldeneye holds up." @Jasonofindy: I disagree but w/e dude. Your opinion obviously = fact. "
I stated that I thought it didn't and actually explained reasons WHY I thought that was the case. Generally speaking, in areas where there has been vast change old stuff doesn't hold up well. (compare a 1960's TV or phone to one of today) In areas where there has been little change, old stuff holds up very well. (compare 1960's wall clocks, toilets, cooking utensils, and various other unchanging household items to those of today)
Dude, it's Mario. It's awesome never the less. I've played through Mario games a hundred times and that would be, like, uhm, repetetive. But I still enjoy it every time.
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