Some business moves appear bad on paper, which in turn are not. A lot of major moves like Sony removing an OS make sense and doesn't discourage people from buying the system, so it doesn't matter. All of your examples are excusable things that protect the buisnesses that sell me entertainment, and non of those examples have hurt my gaming experience.
I get the vibe of someone who dumped their boyfriend, only to turn around and be upset when that ex-boyfriend is now very happy in his new relationship.
Sort of like Activision, right? ;)
I miss the golden age of gaming: good ol' 8bit graphics, blowing dust off cartridge contacts, tuning the channel on the TV for your console to work. Simpler times, when one guy could code a game by himself, go to a publisher and make some money. When saves didn't exist, nor did fancy words like "profit", "sustainability" or "user friendliness". When Nintendo had a firm leash on cartridge manufacturing and forced publishers to limit their releases to a few a year. When...
Hang on. What's this kid doing on my porch, complaining about stuff?
I miss the golden age of gaming: good ol' 8bit graphics, blowing dust off cartridge contacts, tuning the channel on the TV for your console to work. Simpler times, when one guy could code a game by himself, go to a publisher and make some money. When saves didn't exist, nor did fancy words like "profit", "sustainability" or "user friendliness". When Nintendo had a firm leash on cartridge manufacturing and forced publishers to limit their releases to a few a year. When... Hang on. What's this kid doing on my porch, complaining about stuff? "
Dunno if that was sarcasm or not, but you do realize that Nintendo's tight leash on that stuff was all about profitability right? They saw what the early 80s did to home consoles and had a built in structure to keep their market from getting flooded with shit, not by actually confirming that all the games that came out were actually good (because trust me, there are pleeeeenty of shitty NES games,) but by forcing the publisher to decide to waste one of their slots for the year for things that might not be their best product. And of course Nintendo got their own cut on EVERYTHING because they controlled the flow of carts. You know why Atari/Tengen got their asses sued? Because Nintendo wanted to get theirs.
Again, I really don't want to come off as callous because I do love games and want dudes who love games to make more kick-ass games for me to play. I'm sure there are developers out there filled with people who just want to make awesome games. But video games are a mass media industry, and like every mass media industry (films, television, hell even books at this point), the heart of everything is a ledger.
I lived through the old days. I think this is the best of times. I liked Fallout 3, but didn't buy any DLC. I liked Fable 2, but didn't buy any DLC. I've played a shit load of Dragon Age, but haven't bought any DLC. Assassin's Creed 2, I loved it, but never thought about DLC. I like having options. If there was a golden age, this must be the platinum age.
Oh yeah, I love my goddamn Wii. It's the best console I've ever owned and I've been playing video games since the 70's.
" It seems as tough they try to defend "big" Business.For example I see people on many boards defending DLC practices- such as DLC Maps released a week after the game.Defending Sony for removing the other OSDefending MS for giving them a 3 year warranty on RROD's ( sure it was nice but when the Warranties up that's it you're done for)Defending Nintendo for abandoning the core games and producing Wii"titles" (Wii Fit, Wii Music etc.)Defending a lot of bad business practices like DRM and a crapload of other things.What is wrong with today's gamer? It seems like they are to busy kissing the companies ass and adoring them for making more money. But keep in mind the more money a company makes the worst they become. I mean look at nintendo.... flithy rich but they forgot about the core gamers! A lot of the stuff being done is for the benefit of the companies who pretty much like to screw over the gamer as of late. I kind of miss last gen (the second golden age of gaming) Stuff was a tad bit simpler but companies are screwing over almost everyone as of late.... I just can't fathom how people can just defend them. I'm sorry but a selfish consumer is better then one who bends over and accepts the rape. Why? Because the consumer holds more power then the company... With that being said gaming is in a sad state of political affairs that harm the gamer more then benefit. "
People like you who are overly nostalgic and cynical.
Which is honestly not much to complain about because this is nothing new, just aggravated by proliferation of the internet which is comes with the territory I guess.
The only other problem with "kids these days" is I'm not sure how dedicated they are to knowing the medium and sticking to it as it moves forward. There will always be people that do but how many is the question. Not knowing the answer is I guess an issue.
" For example I see people on many boards defending DLC practices- such as DLC Maps released a week after the game.
Would you rather have game prices go up? I certainly wouldn't have wanted to pay $75 for Modern Warfare 2 and have it come with extra maps I won't play.
Defending Sony for removing the other OS
It was removed because of an exploit. Exploits lead hackers to weak spots in the firmware so they can crack the security which leads to piracy. Sony has no intention of having another PSP on their hands so they killed the feature.
Defending MS for giving them a 3 year warranty on RROD's ( sure it was nice but when the Warranties up that's it you're done for )
That was incredibly generous of them. They tripled the warranty period on a common hardware issue at no cost to you. I don't see what the problem is.
Defending Nintendo for abandoning the core games and producing Wii"titles" (Wii Fit, Wii Music etc.)
Nintendo didn't abandon anybody. They can't compete with Sony and Microsoft for the "Core" gamers. Nintendo knows this so they designed games with mass market appeal so that they can broaden their market to compensate. Nintendo still releases games in its core franchises (Super Mario Galaxy 2 is coming out on Sunday after all). So i don't get why people say Nintendo abandoned the core.
" With that being said gaming is in a sad state of political affairs that harm the gamer more then benefit. "
Oh, shut up. There are far worse things that could happen to gaming.
@rubsnick said:
" I'm sorry but a selfish consumer is better then one who bends over and accepts the rape. Why? Because the consumer holds more power then the company... "
This is the only point so far that I actually agree with.
@rubsnick said:
" I kind of miss last gen (the second golden age of gaming) Stuff was a tad bit simpler but companies are screwing over almost everyone as of late.... I just can't fathom how people can just defend them. "
This has happened during every generation of consoles you're just letting your nostalgia get in the way of seeing that.
@rubsnick said:
" It seems like they are to busy kissing the companies ass and adoring them for making more money. But keep in mind the more money a company makes the worst they become. I mean look at nintendo.... flithy rich but they forgot about the core gamers! "
Not all companies are as evil as you say. Yes, they're all out to sell you a product but there are some companies who do care about their community and put the money they've earned to good use. Valve is a very good example of this.
@rubsnick said:
" It seems like they are to busy kissing the companies ass and adoring them for making more money. "
@rubsnick said:
" Defending Nintendo for abandoning the core games and producing Wii"titles" (Wii Fit, Wii Music etc.) "
Fanboyism. It's been around for decades and I doubt it'll stop anytime soon.
@rubsnick said:
" MS for giving them a 3 year warranty on RROD's ( sure it was nice but when the Warranties up that's it you're done for) "
Doesn't the same rule apply to most products? You can't really bash Microsoft for at least extending the warranty for their customers. However, you can bash them for their poor console performance.
@rubsnick
said:
" For example I see people on many boards defending DLC practices- such as DLC Maps released a week after the game. "
What's wrong with this if the content is free? (More content = More game = More bang for your buck & More sales.) Everybody wins.
@rubsnick said:
"Tada you've just been owned. "
This is what is wrong with "today's" gamers.
In my personal opinion, gamers themselves haven't changed but merely evolved. With the rise of video games becoming more commerical and more open-minded towards the majority we've had more casual and hardcore, (I hate using that word), types of gamers and there have been small variations between each group.
I'm not trying to bash you solely but this is an age-old argument and it's typically overblown to a certain extent.
There is a line between defending companies because there is nothing to really worry about and just being a douche bag and complaining about every thing.
" But keep in mind the more money a company makes the worst they become. I mean look at nintendo.... flithy rich but they forgot about the core gamers! "
So companies making a lot of money enabeling them to get more resources to create a bigger and better games is bad? Mmmkey, that's really smart -- /super sarcasm.
Also, what are these core games you're talking about?
AND, you can't blame people for standing by their opinions about what's going on in the gaming industry. I myself can perfectly understand why Sony would remove the possibility to install other OS's on the PS3, and I think that Sony did the right thing. Well, at least they did nothing wrong. So by saying that, is there something wrong with me as a gamer you say?? Again, real smart ................
" It's called fanboyism. People are going to defend the things that they invest time and money into, and it will never go away. "
I agree with this. When someone invests in something they will try and make themselves believe they have made the best choice. "
Sure, but how much of this is because they've "lost" something along the way as well. Things like the Dreamcast, Working Designs, and Clover were lost to us early because they didn't get the financial support they needed to exist. So we pay to defend things so they don't go away. We show our "fanboyism" as a method of protection to stop the things we like from going away for good and to protect that "investment" from dying early.
" Hmmm. I'll respond to each of the OP's examples in kind:
- Defending DLC practices- such as DLC Maps released a week after the game: I think this is cooling somewhat, and its important to seperate what is good DLC (Fallout 3, Rock Band) and what is more shady (Resident Evil 5, Street Fighter costumes...really, just about anything Capcom does). I'm personally fond of the model that things like Mass Effect 2 and Alan Wake are doing: giving you the earliest stuff that wasn't quite ready for release for free to give you a benchmark of what to expect in the future, and then letting you decide on the value proposition down the line.
- Defending Sony for removing the other OS: Sony has burned so bad on piracy stuff over the last few years, I can see why they would be paranoid enough to change this. As someone who doesn't fully understand why Linux is such a better choice for your Playstation 3, I can't really begin to understand why this change is a big deal for the vast majority of the gamers out there, and the minority who are actually affected have a right to be upset. But again, I can't speak to their preference or what their real reasoning is.
- Defending MS for giving them a 3 year warranty on RROD: They technically could have done nothing, and the threat of a class action lawsuit doesn't really jive with the huge sum of money they lost in having to extend the warranty. Plus, if you send the same 360 in twice for repair, they actually send you a new one (this is from someone on the inside, or formerly so) and you get a new 3-year warranty. Trust me, this decision is in YOUR benefit.
- Defending Nintendo for abandoning the core games and producing Wii "titles" : I feel like I've said this a billion times: Nintendo abandoned "core gamers" because "core gamers" abandoned Nintendo. Look at the last generation. Look at the sales figures for PS2 vs. X-Box vs. Gamecube. If you don't think that Nintendo needed to make a radical move and embrace a new market of consumers, you're fooling yourself. The "core" had already stopped supporting them, save for the niche group that will always champion Nintendo over all else. Whenever someone complains about Nintendo being successful without putting out the games they want to play, I get the vibe of someone who dumped their boyfriend, only to turn around and be upset when that ex-boyfriend is now very happy in his new relationship.
- Defending a lot of bad business practices like DRM: DRM isn't by itself a bad business practice; its a necessary one. Talk to the World of Goo guys and say that piracy isn't a problem, especially in the PC space. Plus the majority of DRM is fairly unobtrusive (Ubisoft excepted, but they're just dicks about that and hate you for being a PC gamer anyway) if you're using the gamer responsibly. If you can't understand why EA doesn't want you to install Spore six times without explaining it to them first, then you might be part of the problem. And not related to any particular point you made, but your argument that the more money companies make, the more corrupt they become? There is plenty of evidence to back that up, sure, but ALL VIDEO GAME COMPANIES ARE IN IT TO MAKE A LIVING. If you think for a second that any video game developer, even the most indie and progressive in their distribution practices, has any interest in you as more than a customer and consumer, then you're fooling yourself. And that is how its always been. "
We are. lets face it. We all just sit back and pay for live and rechargeable batteries wifi connector until you end up spending way more than you would of if you just got a ps3. thats why next time its sony for me.
" What do you mean this generation? I remember being a kid and arguing over the SNES and Mega Drive. I remember people throwing logic out of the window to defend the PSOne or N64. I remember people defending Sega's business strategy with the 32X, Sega CD and Saturn... Fanboys are no better or worse now than they used to be. "
this. If you think people are less rational no, you're crazy.
@rubsnick: I agree with most of what you said, except for MS extending warranty and Nintendo going Wii.
For MS extending warranty, it's basically their responsibility. They messed up, having all the RRODs. It's the least they could do. No doubt. However, what makes this act so admirable is that all other companies are abandoning the moral codes. I remeber someone left his PS3 under the bed for a couple of weeks and didn't play it at all. Then when he wanted to start it up, it failed to. Of course, the logic move is to contact customer service, which he did. He recieved a response of Sony being worried about their employee's health, and that fixing his PS3, with all the dust, will lead to their technician getting sick. So extra fee is required. All he did is leaving the PS3 under the bed.
As for Nintendo releasing everything Wii, it's just a different approach on video gaming. I don't see anything wrong with that.
" For example I see people on many boards defending DLC practices- such as DLC Maps released a week after the game.
Would you rather have game prices go up? I certainly wouldn't have wanted to pay $75 for Modern Warfare 2 and have it come with extra maps I won't play. "
Nice strawman you got there. Could you be possibly be any more presumptuous?
DRM is not bad business practice its smart. The only reason why people defend DRM is because when they find a DRM service they like they voice there opinion so that the company knows its working for keeping out illegal players and that their customers like the system. We also voice our opinion when DRM is bad, Ubisoft's recent model for example. This whole topic was just created to rant and make the topic creator look like he's the "model game player".
I like how people today think they know everything about business. 'a business exists to make money', when really the company is fucking you and you thank them for it.
Simple. The entire western market is based on the back of big business. It's a shitty system and it makes individual people useless and companies mean everything. It's corporate facism and there is nothing you can do about it.
It isn't gamers today. This type of thinking has been programmed into people in general all over the country at all age groups. The trickle down B.S. How big business is the American way. I am all for capitalism but these companies not only work together to screw us they also hire lobbyists to get our own government to screw us. Don't get me started.
" @Rowr: I guess the forum pricks come out at night. Another stupid post for no apparent reason except to be a dick. "
O come on. Not like i had much to go on, op is needless concentrated whining.
"things dont work the way i think they should!"
@jrbl1 said:
" @emkeighcameron: Do you think anyone really cares? Seriously, why post that. You are just being a dick. What is with forums always attracting want to be English teachers who want to grade everyone on their posts. Who is asking? #1 annoyance in forums. "
@jrbl1 said:
" It isn't gamers today. This type of thinking has been programmed into people in general all over the country at all age groups. The trickle down B.S. How big business is the American way. I am all for capitalism but these companies not only work together to screw us they also hire lobbyists to get our own government to screw us. Don't get me started. "
Your the one that seems to have your panties in a bunch.
@ParanoidFreak: I agree as well. Just as people who don't buy it will sometimes shun it or insult it because they don't have it. It is all just primitive thought processes that many cannot get away from.
@Rowr: I stand by my statements. The first one was some guy commenting on the thread with nothing related to it like you. And the second is my comment fully related to the thread. If you don't like the thread then don't reply to it. It isn't that hard. The thread has a lot of responses and your two cents wasn't needed or related to the thread really at all. i am sure you are a great person and your comments are probably usually on par but in this care you were just being a dick. It happens to all of us. I just tend to point that stuff out.
It's just sad . Like many have nothing else to do but make a big deal out of a stupid "game" or a company . they don't care who's more loyal to which side as long as you piss off your cash at them . I hate loyalty( worship?) for unoriginal , insignificant matters in life like games and sports teams . It kinda shows what kind of a meat head a person is.
@rubsnick: It has nothing to do with "this generation" of gamers. I've been playing games since the mid-80s, and I routinely defend Microsoft's 3-year warranty, companies using DRM (even if I think the DRM is counterproductive), and appropriate DLC content. Admittedly, I think Sony is probably going to be sued and lose over the removal of the other OS feature. What I think you mean, though, is that you don't like it that people have different opinions than you.
Game companies don't want to screw over gamers. But they do want to stay in business. With the economy a mess, that means they have to find some way of keeping profits up. Otherwise, they go out of business. That means protecting sales, etc. Some of those decisions they make are going to be bad and piss off a lot of gamers. You think they don't know that? But when sales decline as sharply as they did in 2009 (and likely to fall further this year), their responses are predictable, if frustrating. The profit margins on consoles is slim. Most publishers are barely squeaking by with profits. Profits mean investors which means capital. Capital is needed for making big-budget games.
Basically, as gamers we're being forced to accept a lot of short-term pain in order to get the games we want. It won't always be the case, but given the economic realities, there's not much choice.
@haggis: No offense but you sound exactly like the corporate puppet falling for all the sympathy B.S. the corps feed you that he is talking about. For example Nintendo made 2.5 billion dollars in profit. Yet all you read about was how their earnings dropped 20 percent. You're right corporations need to make profit but it used to be they had to do that and keep their customers happy. Now a days they just buy politicians and have laws passed so they can screw us and still make profit. Companies are making more profit then ever. That money is going to executive bonuses. The executives get those bonuses by figuring out how to get their employees to do the job of 3 employees so they can lay off a bunch. Billions of dollars going to the highest officials and the employee's get screwed, the customers get screwed and the only focus is how to make more more more. How you can be sympathetic to a corporation because they are having trouble making money yet they still pay their top 5 employee's up to 100 million a year in some cases is just stupid if you ask me.
It's not just in gaming, it's everywhere. Whether it's sports, music or anything else for that matter. People believe whatever it is they align themselves with is the best and won't budge from it. There are football sides in England doing terribly on and off the field and people will still stick up for them out of blind loyalty because they don't want others knocking them. I have a friend who is having a mini break down over the chaos at Infinity Ward. He so worried about what's going to happen to MW3. To me it's just a massive MEH. I don't get it at all. It just seems that people these days enjoy following trends, fads and cultures. People now won't form their own opinion, they'll just defend what they're blindly following whether it's good or bad. It's not really a new trend, but it's much more prevalent thanks to the internet.
Gamers never change. There has always been a subset of people who will defend their favourite to the death. Like someone said before, it's called fanboyism.
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