I think it's funny. When people poke fun at other people who take things too seriously hilarity usually ensues. I can't wait to see what winds up out there. Also, Muslim Extremists don't have an internet flag they can burn, and they can't kill anonymous.
This thread turned real sour, real fast. Kinda entertaining though. I gave up on trying to understand the reasoning behind some peoples beliefs a long time ago. If someone wants to portray the prophet Muhammed in a picture, I say let 'em. Every other deity has been mocked in one way or another, why should this one be any different? Just because your religion tells you it's the way things should be, doesn't mean it's right. This is the issue with religion as a whole... they are very rarely modernized. Sure these fundamentals made sense to people centuries ago, but with time... people and societies change. Yet for whatever reason, religion never follows in everyone elses footsteps.
" @mutha3: If this was about the average Muslim getting offended, I would expect you also refrain from activities that would offend the average Christian, or any other religion, or any other culture. You can't care just about the average Muslim and say it has nothing to do with fear of the fringe then attack the average Christian or allow others to. Either you're generally compassionate and misguided and think all forms of religious 'attacks' or perceived attacks should be banned, or you inexplicably care about this particular group of people to the point that you think they deserve a special exception. So you're either a compassionate tyrant or you're being a baffling hypocrite. "
I fail to see how not offending people just because you can is able to be considered "misguided." Stop hiding behind some crusade of free speech, you're just doing something because someone says you shouldn't. Free speech is about the free exchange of ideas, not being able to do whatever you want whenever you want. If you really think there's some sort of great injustice in not being able to depict Muhammad, open some sort of dialogue about it, don't just start doing something you know will offend someone.
@mutha3: Yeah uh hat response didn't make much sense to me. This isn't dudes yelling out random obscenities without context because they can't control it. Its organized. But it'll probably be more embarrassing than not because its Facebook people. I still endorse it all in theory. But man. Facebook people. Still behind the idea though I'm a little afraid to see how far people take it. I have standards too believe it or not. The message could be lost in the muddle if a bunch of people just take it way overboard.
And kids... it's only offensive if you let it be. Just lighten up, and accept some satirical digs at your religion. And if you can't do that, then bend over and pull that stick out of your arse.
I think it's pretty funny that most of the people replying positively to this thread hold the one episode of Southpark as a beacon for all of free speech. Go ahead and just ignore everything else that is happening in the world, and never mind the free speech you get taken away every day in America. Ever heard of the patriot act? Learn to pick your battles, but if you want, go ahead and draw Mohammad if it makes you feel like you've accomplished anything, by all means, don't go out and actually try and solve the problem.
Dude, this is the internet. Everything turns into dudes shouting random obscenities. This will probably just be a leverage for people to post retarded shit aimed solely at pissing people off.
I also don't think this is really much of a meaningful way to get a message across. Like, Term said, dialogue would probably be the efficient way to go here.
" @ryanwho: Dude, this is the internet. Everything turns into dudes shouting random obscenities. This will probably just be a leverage for people to post retarded shit aimed solely at pissing people off. I also don't think this is really much of a meaningful way to get a message across. Like, Term said, dialogue would probably be the efficient way to go here. "
It would be. But nobody's talking. Maybe this will get people to talk. Its a cheap way to provoke the discussion, yes. Haven't really seen anyone in the media stepping up to the plate, I would much rather wave my banner behind civil discourse but nobody is offering that.
" I think it's pretty funny that most of the people replying positively to this thread hold the one episode of Southpark as a beacon for all of free speech. Go ahead and just ignore everything else that is happening in the world, and never mind the free speech you get taken away every day in America. Ever heard of the patriot act? Learn to pick your battles, but if you want, go ahead and draw Mohammad if it makes you feel like you've accomplished anything, by all means, don't go out and actually try and solve the problem. You guys are pathetic. "
Hey so there are bigger problems in the world than the thing you're addressing today, and that means you're wasting time. Awesome logic, thanks for stopping by.
I'm actually amazed at the opposition this is getting.
If you're a vegetarian, you don't yell and scream and say that you're offended when you see someone eating a hamburger.
If you're muslim, you shouldn't try to impose your values on other people. Religion is a personal matter, don't bring it into everyday discourse. If I draw a picture that offends you, suck it up; I'm not maiming your children.
" @ryanwho: Dude, this is the internet. Everything turns into dudes shouting random obscenities. This will probably just be a leverage for people to post retarded shit aimed solely at pissing people off. I also don't think this is really much of a meaningful way to get a message across. Like, Term said, dialogue would probably be the efficient way to go here. "
It would be. But nobody's talking. Maybe this will get people to talk. Its a cheap way to provoke the discussion, yes. Haven't really seen anyone in the media stepping up to the plate, I would much rather wave my banner behind civil discourse but nobody is offering that. "
What about the people organizing this whole'' Muhammed drawing stuff''? Its really them who I'm calling juvenile in the first place.
Wouldn't their efforts be more purposeful if they tried to engage in some discussion? The Muslim community, at least, has a lot of outspoken people who would be willing to discuss, Hell, even side with them on this.
Instead they're making a photoshop contest for trolls on the internet:/
@Jrad said:
" I'm actually amazed at the opposition this is getting. If you're a vegetarian, you don't yell and scream and say that you're offended when you see someone eating a hamburger. If you're muslim, you shouldn't try to impose your values on other people. Religion is a personal matter, don't bring it into everyday discourse. If I draw a picture that offends you, suck it up; I'm not maiming your children. "
Maybe you should read the posts in this thread. Very few people are approaching this from that angle.
Actually, there's like, one guy who is a Muslim here. Posted on page 2 or something.
Seriously, this is one of the dumbest and childish ideas I ever heard This isn't about "freedom of expression" Most of you aren't even Muslim It's just you wanting to be a dick and piss off the world's second largest religion
I can't say I disagree with this, as lately shit has been going downhill. Just take a look at what happened to Lars Vilks. And mnzy, it's in the Qur'an - so why the fuck care if a non-Muslim draws a picture of him? He doesn't live by THAT law but by the law that states it IS okay to draw that picture.
" @ryanwho: Dude, this is the internet. Everything turns into dudes shouting random obscenities. This will probably just be a leverage for people to post retarded shit aimed solely at pissing people off. I also don't think this is really much of a meaningful way to get a message across. Like, Term said, dialogue would probably be the efficient way to go here. "
It would be. But nobody's talking. Maybe this will get people to talk. Its a cheap way to provoke the discussion, yes. Haven't really seen anyone in the media stepping up to the plate, I would much rather wave my banner behind civil discourse but nobody is offering that. "
The issue is that this won't get people talking. All you'll accomplish is angering those Muslims who take their religion seriously. This won't make them reconsider being able to depict Muhammad. Assuming this actually does get some sort of media attention, all that will happen is people will end up in one of three camps: those that couldn't care less, those that are outraged, or those going "Yeah! Show those Muslims!"
Nothing constructive will come from this, all that will come from it is more hate mongering.
" As ridiculous as it might seem, I think its important to respect other peoples beliefs. I mean really its no more silly that you can't draw a picture of Muhammad than JC made wine from water or that Moses wandered between Egypt and Israel for 40 years eating magic sky bread. Its about as sensible as Mother Goose...but people really believe it. So why go out of you way to piss them off? "
It's not ridiculous at all imo. Sure, the idea that NO ONE, not even people not of that religion is not aloud to draw a picture of Mohammed is crazy. I mean, I could draw a picture of a can of pickles (Deadly Premonition style), and said it was picture of Mohammed, and still I would be bashed in the head by people believing in the prophet. I am one of the least religious types of people out there, but I still believe we should respect the religion of others and not cross the "boundaries" they set, as long as it isn't anything "crazy".
Comparing it to other religions is ridiculous. Christians don't think there's anything wrong with drawing jesus, there's nothing wrong with drawing Vishnu or Rama, or any of the other religions figureheads, but in Islam you're not allowed to draw Muhammad. It's not about drawing him doing something stupid, like jesus gambling or buddha picking up hookers, it's the very fact you drew him in the first place. It may seem like a stupid rule to us but you should still respect how strongly they feel about it.
Fucking ignorants spouting nonsense like 'we make fun of jesus so i don't see why muhammad is so special', no-one cares if you draw jesus, jesus is fine and dandy with being drawn, a bunch of people would prefer if you didn't draw muhammad because for thousands of years their families and friends have been taught that it goes against their god to do so. Is that so hard to understand? Nonsense about 'satirical digs', they don't care that you drew him getting pissed or high or whatever, it might have made it worse but as soon as you drew his face you were mocking them.
Whatever though, you're the guys who are going to get your asses bombed again.
I love it when people drag religion / politics to the Internet, because suddenly they realize that a million+ people don't agree with them. And then they get angry. And whiny.
God damn people are idiots. Especially people on the Internet. And me.
" I'm actually amazed at the opposition this is getting. If you're a vegetarian, you don't yell and scream and say that you're offended when you see someone eating a hamburger. If you're muslim, you shouldn't try to impose your values on other people. Religion is a personal matter, don't bring it into everyday discourse. If I draw a picture that offends you, suck it up; I'm not maiming your children. "
Maybe you should read the posts in this thread. Very few people are approaching this from that angle. Actually, there's like, one guy who is a Muslim here. Posted on page 2 or something. "
I was referring to the general response.
Why do people care what kind of crazy shit other people draw? Going around waving pictures of some dead guy who supposedly existed in the face of someone whose religion vehemently opposes such a thing is obviously a dick move, but that's not what's happening. If you're going to be offended by something, don't look at it. Ignore it! It's that simple.
There are a lot of awful things in the world; people as a whole should try being offended about stuff that actually matters, and stop caring about whether some delusional group is offended over nothing.
@baconbits33: Its not quite the same. There are no religious prohibitions on Jesus watching porn (Jesus was strangely silent on the matter) or Buddah snorting coke (actually check that. In Buddahism you should abstain from drugs and alcohol...still..Buddah was just a man, not a deity). A more direct correlation would be to pick your nose with a crucifix or using a Yamaka to hold bacon bits. Its not really about what "we" or "they" do...its about just being a decent person who doesn't try and offend people for no reason other than to offend.
Personally I'm an atheist. The very notion of any of these religions is simply the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I still don't go into churches and shout "The Cake is a Lie" and run out. My point is really that if someone finds an action offensive and you have no particular reason to commit that action, it should be avoided.
" People draw the idea of what the Christian God looks like. Still don't see what the big fuss about drawing Muhammed is. = / "
@creamypies said:
" And kids... it's only offensive if you let it be. Just lighten up, and accept some satirical digs at your religion. And if you can't do that, then bend over and pull that stick out of your arse. "
It's in the Qur'an, their bible, which is also the law in many islamic countries. It's not in the bible that showing god is illegal, if it would be, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be allowed to, even today. So how can you "losen up" about it, if it is that essential to not show him? The thing basically is: noboy will change their mind or their religion, or their law, even if all people in the western world would start drawing this guy. It just doesn't do anything except pissing of people who actually take their religion seriously. And those are not terrorists or extremist agitators or whatever, they are mostly normal people. "
I stick by what I said earlier. Religion, as a whole, needs to be modernized (as do some islamic countries). Alot of these beliefs made sense to people hundreds of years ago because the religions were still relatively young, they were finding their feet so to speak. We're in a new age now. I am not protesting against the islamic beliefs, I'm protesting against all the nonsensical ones among all religions.
Secondly, not every man, woman and child out there are muslim. Therefore they don't follow the rules of the Qur'an, if they want to draw a picture of Muhammed... they can. What's the issue?! I'm not suggesting that an active muslim should go out and draw Muhammed, I'm just defending the right for a non muslim to do so.
we shouldn't have to be scared of terrorism if people want to draw Muhammad let them. I might but it would be a shitty stick figure that says this is Muhammad
@creamypies: Its really not about the religious argument to me, it's about being polite and respecting other people. Its not like I'm saying 'don't do something you normally do', I'm saying 'don't go out of your way to offend people. "
" @Tennmuerti: because the extremist part of their religion will come over to your country and blow up places. "
Ah I see, so I should bow down before anyone that threatens me with violence and be a slave to what they want me to do just because they threatened me?
@Semition: yeah you're totally right, you should teach them a lesson and get them even angrier! yeah that'll work! make more of their normal population join the extremists, fuel the hate for america! all because you thought your freedom of speech trumps common decency!
edit: @Tennmuerti: i think the point you're missing here is the extremists will be the ones blowing you up and threatening you with violence, the rest of the population just wishes you'd respect their shit.
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