That's 97th percentile baby. That's also an increase of 9 points from my first score of 161 (83rd percentile). That's right, I'm going to a top 10 school. YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
8 months before the first attempt, 7 after the first attempt. That's an estimation. I'd say around 14 months total. Studied on my own, didn't take a class, but bought a ton of books, including Ace The LSAT's logic games book, Powerscore Bibles, and tons of practice tests.
Allow me to say that it was brutal. It was a ton of work, and the first attempt was soul crushing, but in the end I'm glad I went through with it all the way I did.
Now the news you probably don't want to hear, but it's important you do. The recession has decimated the legal profession and there are way more lawyers than jobs right now. Globalisation has taken it's toll too and a lot of the basic entry-level stuff is being shipped out for interns in India. Have a read of this article before you get too excited. Hell, have a look at this one too. The fact is that unless you're going to top school right now, the investment really isn't worth it - and even if you are, the market is tough and jobs are scarce.
Further, have a talk to your school's pre-law advisor - last time I checked the top schools look at a combination of your scores, and a few only accept the first one.
I'm not trying to be a downer here, you did really well on the LSAT and should be proud of yourself. However Law School isn't what it once was, and there are other better options out there right now if you're looking for a decent income in the future. Don't forget that we're talking about an education thats likely to cost over 100k and may very well end up as nothing more than a diploma on the wall.
Now the news you probably don't want to hear, but it's important you do. The recession has decimated the legal profession and there are way more lawyers than jobs right now. Globalisation has taken it's toll too and a lot of the basic entry-level stuff is being shipped out for interns in India. Have a read of this article before you get too excited. Hell, have a look at this one too. The fact is that unless you're going to top school right now, the investment really isn't worth it - and even if you are, the market is tough and jobs are scarce. Further, have a talk to your school's pre-law advisor - last time I checked the top schools look at a combination of your scores, and a few only accept the first one. I'm not trying to be a downer here, you did really well on the LSAT and should be proud of yourself. However Law School isn't what it once was, and there are other better options out there right now if you're looking for a decent income in the future. Don't forget that we're talking about an education thats likely to cost over 100k and may very well end up as nothing more than a diploma on the wall. "
Grads of the top 10 law schools find jobs quite well thanks, and giveny my GPA and scores I'm more than qualified for most of them. I appreciate the attempt to shit on my parade though.
Man, shitting on your parade was the furthest thing from the point. Just have a read of the articles and make an informed decision. I have friends who went to top 10 schools, had placements with highly regarded firms and clerked with judges, and they're still unable to get legal jobs. Look at the WallStreet Journal article...when U Texas is seeing a drop of 10-15% grad' employment there's something seriously wrong. Look at this one, "Unemployment among new law school grads nationwide has risen for two straight years, to a rate of 12 percent for the class of 2009, according to the National Association for Law Placement. Among the employed, 25% were temporary, while 10% were part-time. " I'm sure you'll walk into a top school, and that's fantastic, but please review all the facts before making such an enormous decision. I'm seriously not trying to be a jerk here, but it's important someone tells you about the other side.
Congratz man ;D I too am looking to go to law in the future (im 14) But im in Europe, where theres really few LSAT centres in all of Europe, so i got to say, i dont know much about it, but im sure it was tough, so once again, GRATZ ;D
I would like to know. Ive only heard of them in TV shows. "
Are you guys being serious? :/ "
Yeah, im sure they are, as am i. I've only heard of LSATs and SATs in tv shows, never encountered them once in my life and have no idea what they are really.
I would like to know. Ive only heard of them in TV shows. "
Are you guys being serious? :/ "
Sorry for not being American/from someplace that LSAT is used :P Also, congratulations to Givemereplay, it sounds like you put a lot of effort into it, just hope it pays off in the end.
Canadians doesn't have LSATS, I only heard of SAT scores from the media. So, if you ace this test, yet you have terrible grades, secretly study this all year, you still get accepted to the best schools? That don't make no fucking sense. However congrats.
Canadians doesn't have LSATS, I only heard of SAT scores from the media. So, if you ace this test, yet you have terrible grades, secretly study this all year, you still get accepted to the best schools? That don't make no fucking sense. However congrats.
"
Er, Canadians do have LSATs, in fact you need an LSAT score to apply to any law school in Canada. Law schools also typically look at both grades and LSAT scores equally. It's unlikely that someone would have a very low GPA but a very high LSAT score anyway.
@Geno: That's interesting, I didn't know of anyone who took this test here. So it's a law school thing or just a test for every type of school or university? Sometimes you have ppl who are geniuses who are slackers in school or just doesn't care about anything, yet has a high score for these kinds of test. It's rare, however I totally belive it can happen. Some of the smartest ppl in the world are some of the dumbest acedemic students, same goes for sucessful rich ppl who practically dropped out of school. Just curious, was your score high, did you take this test?
" @Geno: That's interesting, I didn't know of anyone who took this test here. So it's a law school thing or just a test for every type of school? Sometimes you have ppl who are geniuses who are slackers in school or just doesn't care about anything, yet has a high score for these kinds of test. It's rare, however I totally belive it can happen. Some of the smartest ppl in the world are some of the dumbest acedemic students, same goes for sucessful rich ppl. Just curious, was your score high, did you take this test? "
There are many different schools post-undergrad. Medical school requires MCAT, law school requires LSAT, business school requires GMAT, grad school requires GRE, etc. These tests examine critical thinking ability and basic knowledge in their respective areas; MCAT tests mainly sciences while LSAT tests mainly reasoning abilities for instance. US and Canada have the exact same admissions standards for the most part.
@Geno: thanks for the info, I didn't know. I suppose I didn't get into those particular fields so I didn't know or wasn't offered these test. Thinking about it, that makes perfect sense I suppose.
@GIVEMEREPLAY: Shitting on your parade? You might be far too immature for what you're about to embark on. If being presented with the actual facts of your situation insults you, this might not be the way to go...
Also, I'll offer a real piece of advice from someone who has been there: consider NOT going to a top 10 school, and take a full scholarship somewhere more poorly ranked. When I applied to law schools, I got in to all my choices but enrolled in the second-most-poorly ranked school of the bunch because I got an amazing deal. Because I took my studies seriously, my financial situation is far better than most of my classmates and I have a great career path.
Hell, if I decided to quit practicing law, I would already come out ahead. If you pay full tuition, it will take a long time to come out ahead unless you earn a tremendous salary.
I personally think it is a huge mistake to go 100-150K in the hole...make sure you do a cost-benefit analysis and don't get caught up in the "prestige" or this-or-that school. Remember, law schools are a business, and they don't have your best interests at heart.
@GIVEMEREPLAY: Just echoing what the others have said...
First of all, normally in the legal world its "T14" which refers to the Top 14 law schools. But more importantly, I would also take a good, hard look at the numbers. Those $160,000 first year associate jobs simply don't exist anymore. And where they do, its not the same as it used to be. No longer do you simply do a summer associate and then get hired on for full salary. Now there are 80 summer associates and 2 get hired, for $80,000.
If you did so much research for your LSAT, I hope you do the same research for the school you attend. Unless you want to go into teaching, or simply come from a family that can foot the entire tuition bill, you should carefully consider the amount of debt you will be taking on.
A second note, simply from someone who is going through all this RIGHT NOW, most hiring is currently being moved along by networking. Since firms have 1,000s of applicants for the same position, all of whom have Moot Court, Journal, and good grades, they rely mostly on proven factors such as an ability to do good legal work. Therefore, its not so much about attending the best school, its more about getting into the field and doing scut work to meet people.
Congrats on the score! You obviously have the drive and ability to do well. But you also cannot rest on the laurels of one good LSAT run. Believe it or not, it never comes up during class or job interviews. Also, if you are a serious do-it-yourself person, as I was, I would recommend "The Law School Admissions Game" by Ann Levine. It is an awesome guide for applications, about cost about $15.
And I want to echo SuicidalSnowman's comment: What really matters at your job interviews? Your success with practical experiences. Just going to a fancy school isn't enough anymore. You need to get the skills to "hit the ground running," and you can get that education at schools that might be quite a bit more affordable if you take charge of your education.
@GIVEMEREPLAY: Did you really find it that hard? I just got a 174, and I thought it was pretty straight forward. What's your gpa though, cause a lot of top 10 schools the median is 3.9; that's the toughest part.
@SuicidalSnowman makes some really good points if you want to get into a firm, which I suppose most people who take the LSAT want to do. Just remember that law is an incredibly flexible degree. I got my degree and then jumped into business and then switched to finance... and I don't think I could've done that if I went to a lower-ranked school. Just my two cents!
" @GIVEMEREPLAY: Did you really find it that hard? I just got a 174, and I thought it was pretty straight forward. What's your gpa though, cause a lot of top 10 schools the median is 3.9; that's the toughest part. "
3.94. It's a test that suits some types and not others. I didn't find it particularly suitable, but with enough studying it worked out fine. Where are you going to school?
@eunao2 said:
" @GIVEMEREPLAY: Well I don't want to troll but compared to Portugal those tests seem to be really easy... "
I didn't know Portugal was a test; though I suppose it must be pretty difficult to suffer living there.
Canadians doesn't have LSATS, I only heard of SAT scores from the media. So, if you ace this test, yet you have terrible grades, secretly study this all year, you still get accepted to the best schools? That don't make no fucking sense. However congrats.
"
Yes we do. I'm going to start studying for mine in a month or so....and on that note.
@GIVEMEREPLAY: I've heard a lot of people say that the LSAT is unlike the MCAT in that aren't just memorizing a tonne of info (which I know) and therefore makes the LSAT something that's hard to study for. Basically what they're saying is that you're either already good at logic games, reading comprehension etc. or you're not. How true is that? Do you feel all that preparation actually improved your chances or do you feel (after doing all the practice and writing the tests) that you owe your second better score largely because you knew what you were up against?
@apeman: OP clearly isn't interested in listening. Kids usually get caught up in the excitement without properly analyzing their situation. I try to use my "excessive" undergrad experience and my stint on the road to med school as advice to give to people but most kids are just idiots with an over valued sense of worth; they literally think they know everything and that I'm just some asshole that's trying to ruin their perfect setup. News-fucking-flash: there is no such thing as the "perfect setup" for an education path that leads into a career path. Let him make his own mistakes that's how people learn best haha
" @GIVEMEREPLAY: I'm at Duke, not sure where I wanna go though. I'm probably gonna take a year or two off, so I can have good work experience as well "
Why did you settle for Duke with a 174? Bad GPA? Edit: whoops, thought you said you were at Duke for law now. How long did you take to prepare for the test?
@RsistncE said:
@GIVEMEREPLAY: I've heard a lot of people say that the LSAT is unlike the MCAT in that aren't just memorizing a tonne of info (which I know) and therefore makes the LSAT something that's hard to study for. Basically what they're saying is that you're either already good at logic games, reading comprehension etc. or you're not. How true is that? Do you feel all that preparation actually improved your chances or do you feel (after doing all the practice and writing the tests) that you owe your second better score largely because you knew what you were up against? "
There's zero memorization of information, the real key is in memorization of patterns of questions. There are a number of question types that are reliably asked on any given section. It's also a lot about technique; when you have 101 questions to get done in 4 35 minute sections, timing is key. The first time I didn't time myself well and as a consequence was short on time. The second time around I was meticulous with my timing, and I had plenty to spare. I did fairly well on the reasoning and reading, but got thumped by the logic games the first time. I studied basically nothing but logic games for the following 6 or so months, and I improved my score significantly as a consequence. The books and study guides aren't just helpful, they're absolutely necessary.
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