When I started smoking in High School I could get a pack of Marlboros for under $2.00. I quit a couple years after I started, but yeah no way I would pay $6.00 for cigarettes.
I think smoking in public should be outlawed. I fucking hate it when an asshole smoker fills the air with that vile shit. Learn some manners, you fuckers!
" @Diamond: Uhh... a cigarette's smoke disperses diffusely. "
So can light... Why are you saying this? I don't want to smell smokers smoking, that's all there is to it. Smokers can't tell because they've lost their sense of smell, but I can smell em 30+ feet away at times.
Heh. I ended up getting my mom to quit because I would sit around her all the time when she was smoking. This was when I was six, so I guess the guilt got to her.
@Diamond: And thankfully light isn't banned in public either.
My point is that any time starts a sentence like "there ought to be a law..." (or something to the same effect), chances are, they are incorrect in their assertion of the need for a law, this case is no different. Just because you don't like the smell of something doesn't give you the right to ban it.
" Let her do whatever the fuck she wants, seriously. She's big, fat and ugly enough to make her own decisions in life and you have no right to tell her she can't. I was in the same position with my sister, though she's only 3 years older than me. I've been smoking a pack a day since I was 14 and she decided at 20 that she wanted to take up smoking (it wasn't a snap decision, she'd been having one here and there for a while). I told her once she starts smoking a pack a day it will be really fucking hard to stop and how much it sucks if you can't get your 'fix', but in the end it was her decision. She quit recently though as she found out she was pregnant (Woo, bad influence uncle time!). If you and your sister are flatmates (meaning, you both split rent and bills), you have NO RIGHT to forbid her to smoke in what is as much her house as it is yours. Voice your concern, let her make her own decision. If you be a fuckwit about it every time she lights up, all you're going to do is piss her off eventually and fuck up your relationship. "
That's about where I stopped reading. /ignored
Uhh.. what? I wasn't having a go at your sister, it's a saying.. basically meaning she's old/mature enough. Maybe it's an Australian thing. Don't be a child and ignore the rest of my post. "
Again, uninformative post /ignored. "
What is your problem bro? I took the time to make a post to give you some advice, and you be a complete dick about it. Did you make this post expecting every bit of advice to say "Wow man, you are awesome! Keep telling your sister what to do, she might hate you now, but one day she'll see you were just trying to help her! You are a saint!". The post I made was based on experiences I've had in my life, and I was trying to help. "
" @Diamond: And thankfully light isn't banned in public either. My point is that any time starts a sentence like "there ought to be a law..." (or something to the same effect), chances are, they are incorrect in their assertion of the need for a law, this case is no different. Just because you don't like the smell of something doesn't give you the right to ban it. "
Well, lots of smokers have no respect for others in that way, so in my opinion there should be a law. Most of what all laws are formed on are all about what people did or didn't like. Objectively speaking cigarette (or cigar, whatever) smoke is bad. You don't have a logical leg to stand on.
What this reminds me of is how ludicrious it is that something as harmful as tobacco is legal, yet marijuana remains in a gray legal state, in the U.S. that is.
my older sister's been smoking for 5 years, I've tried to get her to stop. hell, I even bought her some nicotine gum before. But she smokes more only because people tell her to quit.
my advice, since you said ya'll are living together, tell her that she's not just killing herself but killing you as well, which is unfair since you made the conscious effort to quit 8 months ago. If that does nothing at all to motivate her, then let her fuck herself up.
It's nice to be concerned and all, but you have to let her do her own thing. You can't force her to quit, you know what would happen if she's hooked and the cigarettes disappear. It isn't really that big of a thing, I doubt she's at the 2 pack a day point yet. Leave her be and don't screw up the relationship.
@Khann: PROTIP: Don't write like an asshole if you want to be heard.
EDIT: Jesus christ Giantbomb, it's a just a few cigarettes, no need to start a shit flinging competition between the smokers and non-smokers. But then again Haters gonna hate.
" @Diamond: And thankfully light isn't banned in public either. My point is that any time starts a sentence like "there ought to be a law..." (or something to the same effect), chances are, they are incorrect in their assertion of the need for a law, this case is no different. Just because you don't like the smell of something doesn't give you the right to ban it. "
Well, lots of smokers have no respect for others in that way, so in my opinion there should be a law. Most of what all laws are formed on are all about what people did or didn't like. Objectively speaking cigarette (or cigar, whatever) smoke is bad. You don't have a logical leg to stand on. "
To assert that:
The majority of a certain group are inconsiderate (as you did in your first statement)
Does not give you the right to use the law to validate your own insensitivity.
A hell of a lot of laws are indeed formed on subjective preferences, and that is why most of the time when people say "there oughtta be a law..." they are WRONG.
Objectively speaking, smoke has many different adverse causes (based on continued and prolonged exposure.) But that would not justify a ban on cigarette smoke. It MIGHT justify a ban on all forms of smoke though. If that were the case though, well, we'd all be fucked.
I've read through some of the more serious responses, and I think I'm going to wait a little longer, see if things gets any worse, and then start to confront her more often.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and make honest replies, they were certainly useful.
@Jolly_Lolly: I hope you took my post seriously. Because, even if she doesn't listen to you about the amount of money she's wasted, at least you've managed to hold on to a huge chunk o' change.
She'll give up when she's ready, When people harass you about smoking it's just agitative and makes you want a smoke. Wish i didn't start but i will give up soon. Don't have a go at her everyone knows the consequences...Just offer to get patches ect now and again. Hope this helps.
" There's really no easy decision. It's easy to sit at a computer and tell you that you shouldn't do anything. None of us have the emotional attachment you do. No matter how lenient/harsh you are on her about her smoking, she's probably not going to like you for it, at least not at first. You really have to decide how adamant you're going to be about her quitting. "
You've made the most sense out of all of these responses. I agree.
The majority of a certain group are inconsiderate (as you did in your first statement)
Does not give you the right to use the law to validate your own insensitivity.
A hell of a lot of laws are indeed formed on subjective preferences, and that is why most of the time when people say "there oughtta be a law..." they are WRONG.
Objectively speaking, smoke has many different adverse causes (based on continued and prolonged exposure.) But that would not justify a ban on cigarette smoke. It MIGHT justify a ban on all forms of smoke though. If that were the case though, well, we'd all be fucked. I have two logical legs to stand on, actually. "
I agree completely that I don't have the power to create or enforce such a law. However, your claim that I have no such 'right' is wrong. I could write to my local government, for example. Anyways, it's a meaningless statement which I can prove this by any number of logical statements, but I'll just leave one. It's obviously not completely applicable, but it's short and simple. 'Might makes right'
Objectively speaking a ban on cigarette smoking in public would have a large number of benefits to all parties involved. Smokers would have one more 'stick' to get them to quit, non-smokers would enjoy cleaner air.
The law isn't black and white. One could ban cigarette sales completely but not ban alcohol. I don't have to ban all carcinogens to improve the air. They didn't have to ban all ozone depleting gasses to control Freon.
@Diamond: If you want to live by the logic that might makes right, then you will never arrive at a point in time where we have the internet to debate such matters. Thankfully every government around the world, has to some extent, recognized that a person's need to use his mind to produce goods, and to work with others voluntarily in order to produce results is what drives humanity forward, while using coercion has been what has held us back.
You start a sentence with the words "Objectively speaking" and then assert your subjective preferences. The amount of air pollution caused by tobacco smoke is negligible, and it is not an objective good that smokers do not smoke. Many choose not to quit. Many enjoy it without being dependent on it and using it excessively, so to deny responsible users of a thing the right to use that thing would be non-objective. So you weren't really speaking objectively, now were you?
You're right, the law is not black and white. But if your objective is clean air, banning public smoking will not really help that objective. And if you have an objective, coercion is usually not the way to go about achieving it (this case being no different).
It's obviously a big issue for a family member as you have lived with your siblings (presumably) your whole life up until adulthood. I advise just... backing off really. There's nothing you can do, she is an adult, and as an adult you have to make your own decisions, good or bad.
Aw, that's rough, jolly. If I were you, I'd sit her down and tell her that you respect her and her decisions, but it really hurts you to see her hurting herself. No one wants to outlive their loved ones, especially if there's a way to keep them from dying sooner. Make sure she knows that you're only worried because you love her so much and hope that whatever she choses, she feels confident that she's doing the right thing. Babushka moscow, russian friend.
If it's your place, you don't have to let her smoke. But if you're living with her, it's her place and she should have the right to smoke. But I understand. I don't feel comfortable knowing anybody in my family smokes. But it's their choice.
" Aw, that's rough, jolly. If I were you, I'd sit her down and tell her that you respect her and her decisions, but it really hurts you to see her hurting herself. No one wants to outlive their loved ones, especially if there's a way to keep them from dying sooner. Make sure she knows that you're only worried because you love her so much and hope that whatever she choses, she feels confident that she's doing the right thing. Babushka moscow, russian friend. "
That is actually some pretty good advise, thanks.
And the "Grandmother Moscow, russian friend" doesn't make a lick of sense :P
I dont know about you but I really hate the smell of stale smoke in the air whenever I walk into a room so if she isnt smoking outside then tell her to be more considerate. (seriously).
But it sounds like she is a social smoker which can be pretty harmless.. Until it turns into a full blown addiction.
You're probably the only person that could directly affect her, whether its by good advice or just trying to tell her what could happen in the future, you should take in consideration that she has made up her mind on it and she might not leave it that easily.
With that being said, if there is one man that we could all learn from in this world, it's Allen Carr, this man stopped smoking after 31 years, take a look at his reasoning and if you have the time, show it to your sister, maybe that will raise some self-awareness in her and she would eventually start to quit bit by bit.
" She is presumably an adult and should be allowed to make her own decisions. I would say since you have already expressed your concerns, now it's time to back off and just let your sister live her life as she sees fit. It's her business. "
agreed "
That is a stupid idea..... You can't force anyone to let you make decisions for them, if he tries to convince her to stop, its her choice if she should listen, no one cares if shes an adult or not, in the end she'll make the choice herself, regardless. DON'T BACK OFF. Try for awhile, and if you get nowhere, give it a rest and try again, if you care about her, you'll do your best to help her not make such a mistake. She might not be totally aware of what smoking will do to her and if she is, you still gotta try to make her stop, its for the better.
If i had a friend suffering from depression, and they might kill themselves, or one that has an alcohol addition, would it be a good idea to just let them "Live their life as they see fit."? Hell no. But be kind, she still is family, tread carefully.
" @Diamond: If you want to live by the logic that might makes right, then you will never arrive at a point in time where we have the internet to debate such matters. Thankfully every government around the world, has to some extent, recognized that a person's need to use his mind to produce goods, and to work with others voluntarily in order to produce results is what drives humanity forward, while using coercion has been what has held us back.
You start a sentence with the words "Objectively speaking" and then assert your subjective preferences. The amount of air pollution caused by tobacco smoke is negligible, and it is not an objective good that smokers do not smoke. Many choose not to quit. Many enjoy it without being dependent on it and using it excessively, so to deny responsible users of a thing the right to use that thing would be non-objective. So you weren't really speaking objectively, now were you? You're right, the law is not black and white. But if your objective is clean air, banning public smoking will not really help that objective. And if you have an objective, coercion is usually not the way to go about achieving it (this case being no different). "
I was merely stating the irrelevancy of saying I don't have the 'right' to want smoking to be banned. As I stated, it was a logical statement. It is nevertheless true that I have the 'right'.
The amount of toxins in the air within a short distance of a smoker is a lot higher than normal air quality levels. That's the problem. If you're in a public space with a lot of cigarette smoke, you're in much lower air quality than if they weren't there. Objectively speaking, that's a problem, although not for everyone in every space. If I walked around with a highly radioactive substance that wasn't illegal, the people in my immediate vicinity would be the most harmed. Just because an extremely harmful substance doesn't harm everyone all the time doesn't mean it shouldn't be controlled.
Either way I'm glad smoking is banned as many places as it is. Raise those taxes and make it illegal more places please!
@Diamond: This is why a subjective conception of "rights" is incoherent. If you have the right to ban something, and I have the right to ban your banning of that thing, then rights never begin or stop, they simply never exist.
If on the other hand rights are defined objectively, then your desire for a smoke-free lifestyle can be furnished... on YOUR property (and the property of those with whom you agree).
The tragedy of the commons you describe with regards to second hand smoke is a result of subjectivism in relation to rights, and cannot be ameliorated by more subjectivism, but can only be made worse in new ways. (Such as an increase in taxes and the prosecution of victimless crimes.)
" @Diamond: This is why a subjective conception of "rights" is incoherent. If you have the right to ban something, and I have the right to ban your banning of that thing, then rights never begin or stop, they simply never exist. If on the other hand rights are defined objectively, then your desire for a smoke-free lifestyle can be furnished... on YOUR property (and the property of those with whom you agree). The tragedy of the commons you describe with regards to second hand smoke is a result of subjectivism in relation to rights, and cannot be ameliorated by more subjectivism, but can only be made worse in new ways. (Such as an increase in taxes and the prosecution of victimless crimes.) "
The logical problem is, by that definition, you could say all law is subjective. The fact is the law does take away the rights of some and give extra rights to others. That's the way it's always been.
It's an objective fact that second hand smoke is harmful. It's not a victimless crime.
For what it's worth, when my neighbors doors away smoke, it comes into MY house. They are smoking outdoors but it is harming me on my own property.
@Diamond: Not all law is subjective. The law that prosecutes all people suspected of crime equally is objective. The way laws are formulated and applied in our irreparably imperfect societies is indeed subjective.
As for your example about the smoker, if that smoker respected your property rights (and you were sufficiently vocal) then he would smoke elsewhere.
However, the harm your neighbour's second-hand smoke will cause you is a candle in the sun compared to the other respiratory risks that exist in the world.
I've been smoking for 15 years now, I wouldn't reccomend it to anyone, especially now that the severity of the dangers are clear these days. I love smoking though, it's one of my greatest pleasures, I love Cigars. I'm not that fond of cigarettes these days, but when I'm drunk or if it's after dinner I will want to spark up.
Terribly addictive..I would try and get her out with tact, before real physical addiction seeps in. ..
I hate smoking (cigarettes that is), but you should just sit down and talk to her about wht she gets out of smoking, try to make her realise that for every bad consequence smoking has...there are no good ones If she persits, try to make her replace cigarettes with marijuana
Tell her if she quits, you'll quit. If you really want her to stop, then you'll go through with it for her. Since you say you smoke, I can't really suggest anything else that wasn't recommended from what I read on the first page.
" I hate smoking (cigarettes that is), but you should just sit down and talk to her about wht she gets out of smoking, try to make her realise that for every bad consequence smoking has...there are no good ones If she persits, keep trying. "
" I hate smoking (cigarettes that is), but you should just sit down and talk to her about wht she gets out of smoking, try to make her realise that for every bad consequence smoking has...there are no good ones If she persits, keep trying. "
Fixed ;) "
Yeah lol, I guess that being persistent isn't my thing, but I get why it would be different if we are talking about a sister, But still I get why you would smoke marijuana, I did before, but cigarettes are just dumb. I kinda understand what you are going through, my father smokes and I always see my mom pissed at him and scared that he might be diagnosed with lung cancer or something.
" I hate smoking (cigarettes that is), but you should just sit down and talk to her about wht she gets out of smoking, try to make her realise that for every bad consequence smoking has...there are no good ones If she persits, keep trying. "
Fixed ;) "
Yeah lol, I guess that being persistent isn't my thing, but I get why it would be different if we are talking about a sister, But still I get why you would smoke marijuana, I did before, but cigarettes are just dumb. I kinda understand what you are going through, my father smokes and I always see my mom pissed at him and scared that he might be diagnosed with lung cancer or something. "
my grandfather smokes but apparently my grandmother yelled her lungs out at him. Now you will NEVER see him smoke. Yes, you can still smell the cigarette smoke on his body but hey , hes within eyesight of my grandmother most of the day.
" @Jolly_Lolly: Dude, she's your sister. Don't listen to all those people who say "It's her life, let her do it. She'll stop if she wants". You should talk to her. Let her know how you feel, and try to relate to her. Tell her why you finally quit, and how hard it was (I'm assuming it was). Don't yell and scream, or forbid and demand. Anyone who doesn't realize the dangers of smoking these days is just not paying attention. It's hard with loved ones. I remember when I first started dating my fiancee, she smoked, and did some other stuff. I really didn't like it, but I knew I couldn't force her to stop. After we got a little closer, I told her how I felt about it, and she ended up stopping. She realized that it wasn't worth it to keep doing it. Thankfully, I was more important to her than cigarettes or drugs. Now, you could never guess that she's the same person. She rarely even drinks these days. With your sister, you don't want to act like a parent (especially since you're younger), you want to be more like a friend. Good luck! "
I agree with this fellow. As much as she may be her own person, she's still family. Some things she does effect you, and this is one of them. You're a concerned sibling. Say something.
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