When will the US get the ability to cast a "No Confidence" vote. I'm really not liking any of these clowns both sides are putting up. We need to get rid the the two party system and either have no parties at all and base our votes purely on the ideals of the candidates or go all out and construct ten or more viable parties.
The two party system is not really a democracy anymore and right now just seems extremely broken.
This will be the second election in which I'm able to vote, and I know I'm going to be disappointed. I didn't vote for a major party candidate in 2008, which I feel now was pretty dumb of me. I'm a centrist with a right-leaning tendency, and therefore John McCain was my man early on. Along came Sarah Palin, and I jumped off that sinking ship as fast as I could. The Republican options now are terrible. Michele Bachmann, and anyone tea partying, is crazy. Newt Gingrich, seriously? Rick Perry just doesn't seem up for the job. I've always like my former governor Jon Huntsman, but he can't seem to get his campaign in order. As things are, I think my vote will go towards the re-election of President Obama. No, he's not doing a wonderful job, but I honestly feel like he's trying, and that he's willing to take a more moderate approach to our nation's problems. Or, maybe the tea party just has him in a headlock. I'm not sure at this point.
Obama is basically Clinton without a spine, anyway.
Right, if you ignore their vast differences in fiscal policy, their opinions on unions, the way they handle foreign policy, etc. Obama would have to visit the Wizard of Oz 5 or 6 times before he measured up to Clinton. If Hilary were in office we wouldn't have most of these problems because she would have pushed through everything possible when she had a majority in both houses because her and Bill have that drive in common. Nothing stands in the way of them when it comes to doing what needs to be done, that's why she had that UN scandal. Instead of daughtering around and fumbling like a green motherfucker then continuing to blame the other guys even 3 years into his term.
LOL at Americans blaming economy on Obama, you must have a small memory because the dow jones was failing just before the 2008 elections, all the big war spending, tax cuts for the rich, lowering regulations of wall st had finallly caught up from the Bush years. The easiest way to fix the US economy is get the hell out of Iraq/Afganistan your spending a average of 680 billion a year, thats 1800 from every citizen of the united states from infant to death bed. or 5200 from every workingmans taxes when the average salary is 36,000 a year. And whats the big deal about Ron Paul he seems to old whats his policys/agenda and what does that mean for you?
Obama is basically Clinton without a spine, anyway.
Right, if you ignore their vast differences in fiscal policy, their opinions on unions, the way they handle foreign policy, etc. Obama would have to visit the Wizard of Oz 5 or 6 times before he measured up to Clinton. If Hilary were in office we wouldn't have most of these problems because she would have pushed through everything possible when she had a majority in both houses because her and Bill have that drive in common. Nothing stands in the way of them when it comes to doing what needs to be done, that's why she had that UN scandal. Instead of daughtering around and fumbling like a green motherfucker then continuing to blame the other guys even 3 years into his term.
Uh, what? Fiscally, both are incredibly pro-big business yet still see the importance of things like government-sponsored universal health care. And how is their foreign policy handling any different? It's not like we weren't making bombing runs on Iraq every week under Clinton (because, you know, we were) and pushing for "peace but also America is number 1." Is Obama anywhere near as good as Bill? Fuck no. As I said, he doesn't have a spine and will give a mile and be "the great mediator" when he's got the complete upper hand and doesn't have to give the opposition shit (Hey, remember how he said that he would refuse to pass the education loan act that made it so student loans would instantly start accruing interest while you were still in school? OH WAIT, HE TOTALLY DID PASS THAT.), not to mention that his administration is even worse on leakers and the press than any other administration that I can think of. He may not have the brains or the balls or what have you as Clinton, but let's not pretend that their policies and stances are incredibly similar in being Centerists that are oddly Conservative when it comes to certain issues.
Also, I'm not going to play the "Hillary would have been better" game because as someone who had to suffer with having her as my senator and never supporting my best interests, I'm not so sure about that.
This will be the second election in which I'm able to vote, and I know I'm going to be disappointed. I didn't vote for a major party candidate in 2008, which I feel now was pretty dumb of me. I'm a centrist with a right-leaning tendency, and therefore John McCain was my man early on. Along came Sarah Palin, and I jumped off that sinking ship as fast as I could. The Republican options now are terrible. Michele Bachmann, and anyone tea partying, is crazy. Newt Gingrich, seriously? Rick Perry just doesn't seem up for the job. I've always like my former governor Jon Huntsman, but he can't seem to get his campaign in order. As things are, I think my vote will go towards the re-election of President Obama. No, he's not doing a wonderful job, but I honestly feel like he's trying, and that he's willing to take a more moderate approach to our nation's problems. Or, maybe the tea party just has him in a headlock. I'm not sure at this point.
I didn't notice Obama putting, well, Obamacare on the table. That costs more than "Bush's wars", does just as little good, and will never go away until SCOTUS finally smacks it down. He didn't put THAT on the table --- so spare me that moderation talk. He's an ineffective, not terribly bright, completely intellectually incurious clown who is way above his head.
@Bourbon: "LOL at Americans blaming economy on Obama, you must have a small memory because the dow jones was failing just before the 2008 elections, all the big war spending, tax cuts for the rich, lowering regulations of wall st had finallly caught up from the Bush years. The easiest way to fix the US economy is get the hell out of Iraq/Afganistan your spending a average of 680 billion a year, thats 1800 from every citizen of the united states from infant to death bed. or 5200 from every workingmans taxes when the average salary is 36,000 a year. And whats the big deal about Ron Paul he seems to old whats his policys/agenda and what does that mean for you"
If the improvement can be given to Obama's credit (and he has taken credit), the meltdown is ALSO on him. As the DNC Chairman said months ago, the Dems OWN this economy. And it looks like we'll see nearly no growth and higher unemployment just in time for the election.
And while knocking $680B a year from the budget would be lovely, when the deficit is well more than double that every year, it's hardly the solution.
I love the Tea Partiers are "crazy" --- when EVERYTHING that they said would happen HAS happened. Obama's policies have killed the economy. We suffered a credit downgrade. Our deficits are out of control.
But suggesting we restrain spending (which doubled in 10 years) --- that is "crazy".
Obama is basically Clinton without a spine, anyway.
Right, if you ignore their vast differences in fiscal policy, their opinions on unions, the way they handle foreign policy, etc. Obama would have to visit the Wizard of Oz 5 or 6 times before he measured up to Clinton. If Hilary were in office we wouldn't have most of these problems because she would have pushed through everything possible when she had a majority in both houses because her and Bill have that drive in common. Nothing stands in the way of them when it comes to doing what needs to be done, that's why she had that UN scandal. Instead of daughtering around and fumbling like a green motherfucker then continuing to blame the other guys even 3 years into his term.
Uh, what? Fiscally, both are incredibly pro-big business yet still see the importance of things like government-sponsored universal health care. And how is their foreign policy handling any different? It's not like we weren't making bombing runs on Iraq every week under Clinton (because, you know, we were) and pushing for "peace but also America is number 1." Is Obama anywhere near as good as Bill? Fuck no. As I said, he doesn't have a spine and will give a mile and be "the great mediator" when he's got the complete upper hand and doesn't have to give the opposition shit (Hey, remember how he said that he would refuse to pass the education loan act that made it so student loans would instantly start accruing interest while you were still in school? OH WAIT, HE TOTALLY DID PASS THAT.), not to mention that his administration is even worse on leakers and the press than any other administration that I can think of. He may not have the brains or the balls or what have you as Clinton, but let's not pretend that their policies and stances are incredibly similar in being Centerists that are oddly Conservative when it comes to certain issues.
Also, I'm not going to play the "Hillary would have been better" game because as someone who had to suffer with having her as my senator and never supporting my best interests, I'm not so sure about that.
Obama's policies are demonstrated by his actions. I don't care what he says he supports in speeches, his policies are what ends up on paper. Clinton says "Guantanimo is shutting down" and it shuts down, he has resolve behind his policies. I'm still getting sorties from GITMO at my job, 2 1/2 years after it was supposed to be shut down. I'm not sure Obama believes in much of anything because he bends so easily. Clinton wasn't a dove, I'm well aware of that. And some of the worst humanitarian disasters in modern time happened on his watch and were ignored by him. He's not perfect and I'm not trying to diefy him, make him the infallible Reagan of the left. But I measure policy by what a president does, not what they they they support because a weak president changes what they support on a weekly basis.
I never vote republican, usually stick with democrat or independent. With socialism you give the government to much power, and with capitalism people cannot govern themselves. Damned if you do and damned if you don't I guess.
I'll be voting for the first time in November 2012 (turn 18 in September 2012). I won't vote to re-elect Barack Obama, though I'll go with a conservative party member in the end.
@ryanwho: I never said that Obama is or isn't a great President, just that he's not the one that fucked your entire country up - that was thanks to Bush Jr - and that it's ridiculous that the slightly less, uh, intelligent, members of your population are actually willing to lay the blame on him.
So far they all suck... If I do vote it will be lesser of the evil or some one that I know wont win because he or she is not a democrat or republican.... F the two-party system!
I'll be voting for the first time in November 2012 (turn 18 in September 2012). I won't vote to re-elect Barack Obama, though I'll go with a conservative party member in the end.
Uhh...this should be a picture of Bush and Obama. They are both equally responsible for this gigantic fucking mess. If it comes down to Obama and Paul, ill vote Paul. Obama and anyone else...Obama..Im not going to vote for some batshit christian homophobe..
Obama has shown us that he's pretty much spineless after this whole debt ceiling fiasco, so I'm going to register as a republican next week so i can vote for Ron Paul in the ct primary. even though i may not agree with a few of his opinions, he is BY FAR the only candidate that i would not absolutely hate to see as the next president, and i will do everything in my power as an American citizen to ensure that Michelle "pray the gay away" Bachman, Mitt "corporations are people too" Romney or any of the other corporate sympathizer, christian-extremist loonies are not elected. i don't want to waste my vote this time around, and voting for a third or fourth party that has no chance in hell of winning might as well also be a wasted vote. so yeah, Ron Paul is really the only sane choice.
I read a few people say Obama has "good intentions" in this thread. That doesn't mean fucking anything. People understand that, right? Everyone who makes it that far has some sort of plan to make the country better.
Clinton, however, was a weak President who had things forced on him by a Republican Congress.
Then I applaud the Republican Congress for making Clinton raise taxes to balance the budget and for allowing homosexuals to serve in the military.
Clinton specifically didn't allow gays to serve. And the tax hike didn't balance the budget. A dot-com boom that nobody saw coming did that --- and it didn't actually balance anything as the debt increased every year under Clinton. Not as much as under other Presidents --- but it definitely didn't decrease. Using Social Security funds in the general budget doesn't really eliminate those debts.
"Umm, quick question, how much do you think "Obamacare" cost the US this year alone?"
In 2011? It cost hundreds of thousands of jobs (job growth DIED with its passing and has never recovered) which has absolutely deeply harmed any hopes of generating revenue. The estimates for costs in the future keep spiraling higher and higher every time CBO revisits the issue (given that the only way it was scored as not exploding the deficit is to front load "revenue" and back load expenses with the expenses growing, exponentially, every year). The most recent revision has it up to about $1.1T between 2012 and 2021 (as opposed to $778B when first proposed). And if you look at the first real decade of the bill (in 2014, when its terrible provisions really kick in), it'll increase the deficit by $2T.
A year.
Only way to pay for it is to completely gut Medicare AND increase taxes by about a trillion dollars. And then you'd STILL have to severely limit care. And keep in mind, we are well aware of hundreds of billions in duplicate savings that CBO had to count, even though they don't actually exist.
And that's assuming doctors accept the lowered payments required for the numbers to match these far-fetched numbers. If the "doc fix" is done (as has been done routinely), the numbers are markedly worse. If they don't pay doctors enough, they will simply refuse to accept the government insurance plan. The government lacks the power to require anybody to accept any insurance policy for payment.
Clinton, however, was a weak President who had things forced on him by a Republican Congress.
Then I applaud the Republican Congress for making Clinton raise taxes to balance the budget and for allowing homosexuals to serve in the military.
Clinton specifically didn't allow gays to serve.
Before Don't Ask Dont Tell it was illegal for gays to serve. After DADT, it was legal to serve as long as they didn't divulge that they were gay. The enlistment form used to ask you for your sexual orientation and reject on that basis. Wikipedia is your friend, friend.
I feel sorry for the Americans that their leaders are elected as a lesser evil. Although, that could be the case for any number of other countries.
I hope the Democrats hold a primary against Obama this coming election, although the chance of that is slim to none, but it IS getting worse and drastic times call for...drastic measures.
Clinton, however, was a weak President who had things forced on him by a Republican Congress.
Then I applaud the Republican Congress for making Clinton raise taxes to balance the budget and for allowing homosexuals to serve in the military.
Clinton specifically didn't allow gays to serve.
Before Don't Ask Dont Tell it was illegal for gays to serve. After DADT, it was legal to serve as long as they didn't divulge that they were gay. The enlistment form used to ask you for your sexual orientation and reject on that basis. Wikipedia is your friend, friend.
You're aware "You can serve if nobody knows" leaves it quite illegal for gays to serve, right?
Only Republican I would absolutely not vote for is Cain (who, sadly, doesn't know what the hell he's talking about) and Paul (anybody with supporters as psychotic as his is sketchy). My preference is for Johnson of NM or even Rep McCotter of MI, but they have no shot. Perry is the best of the bunch out there.
I don't live in the states, but if I did, I would definitely pick obama. I find it hilarious that after Bush, people want another conservative as president.
because all conservatives = Bush?
No, most of them are worse.
Good sir, I take your silly liberal views and slam them on the floor.
Don't even get me started on the democrats!
I don't care if our government is big or small, I just want it to work! Everyone needs to stop arguing about stupid shit like abortions, gun and gay rights and fucking fix this country before it goes to shit. The economy is already falling apart and good luck trying to find a job out there right now. But nooooo, they're all too busy arguing over crap and trying to push their own agendas so they can get re-elected. Bunch of self-serving bastards...
Vote for the CPUSA, they're all about work. Equality for all workers. Just be careful you're not Ukrainian....
In 2011? It cost hundreds of thousands of jobs (job growth DIED with its passing and has never recovered) which has absolutely deeply harmed any hopes of generating revenue. The estimates for costs in the future keep spiraling higher and higher every time CBO revisits the issue (given that the only way it was scored as not exploding the deficit is to front load "revenue" and back load expenses with the expenses growing, exponentially, every year). The most recent revision has it up to about $1.1T between 2012 and 2021 (as opposed to $778B when first proposed). And if you look at the first real decade of the bill (in 2014, when its terrible provisions really kick in), it'll increase the deficit by $2T. A year. Only way to pay for it is to completely gut Medicare AND increase taxes by about a trillion dollars. And then you'd STILL have to severely limit care. And keep in mind, we are well aware of hundreds of billions in duplicate savings that CBO had to count, even though they don't actually exist. And that's assuming doctors accept the lowered payments required for the numbers to match these far-fetched numbers. If the "doc fix" is done (as has been done routinely), the numbers are markedly worse. If they don't pay doctors enough, they will simply refuse to accept the government insurance plan. The government lacks the power to require anybody to accept any insurance policy for payment.
1. You know you have no way to proving it was a cause for job growth supposedly dying (Nevermind that the numbers have gone up slightly, only to experience governments jobs being cut, hence why it all looks so abysmal). 2. You actually do start off well with the costs of the healthcare bill, with CBO estimates, and then veer off completely into totally not cited numbers you decided it was a great idea to pull out of your ass. Nice job trying to hide that though. 3. And final nail in the 3 nail coffin, you call it government insurance plan.
Just fucking legalize and tax marijuana, don't mix religion with politics like a crazy zealot, and actually make strides to end corporate tyranny in this country, and I don't care whether your republican or democrat, liberal or conservative.
Well, the Repubicans are probably going to nominate someone who loves Jesus, the very rich and American nationalism, so I'll probably end up voting for Obama.
I'm hoping Romney gets the nomination, since I don't think he'll repeal Obamacare (which I think is a lot better than nothing; although I would have liked a public option, or real universal health care instead). Romney says he will now, but I think that talk will change once he is up for the general election. Also, he is not crazy about hating Muslims and blurring the lines between church and state (being a Mormon, part of a once repressed minority religion, gives him some wisdom on that front).
I can live with Romney... he still loves Jesus, the very rich and American nationalism, but at least he's not super crazy about it, he looks good and he's from Massachusetts -- a great state. If Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann win I'll freak out, but I don't think that's likely: even if either of them get the nomination, I think a significant portion of moderates will see them as crazy and vote for Obama as the lesser of two evils.
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