I have a sneaking suspicion there's more people on here that  are downloading priated games and music, or are doing so currently. And with the economy like it is, I can only see the problem increasing.  

Except he is.......and people like you is what makes the world not a better place.
No integrity at all, only about you, right?

"Except he is.......and people like you is what makes the world not a better place.No integrity at all, only about you, right?"

"yarrrr, i be a pirate"

"lettuceman44 said:

"Except he is.......and people like you is what makes the world not a better place.No integrity at all, only about you, right?"

Because I'm automatically a pirate if I don't agree with a bunch of self-congratulating idiots applying a blanket statement to a huge group of people based on their own propagandized perceptions of those people's actions, right?"

"I love how through this entire thread you have yet to support whatever you are trying to say. You just have been making these condescending comments defending the pirates. Give us a reason to believe you or shut up. "

"Don't see any other reason to support or defend them."

You don't need to be a car thief to defend car thieves.

Is home invasion ok too? What about identity theft?  if someone came to the GB boards and said "I steal cars, so what" is that ok?  Do we openly support criminals engaged in theft and loss of property now?   Since when did stealing become ok just because people are not getting caught?

Piracy is basic theft, it's just insanely popular because the laws are difficult to force.  In other parts of the world child rape and human trafficking are very popular because they are hard to police, should people jump on that bandwagon too just because it's "going to happen anyway"? 

Piracy isn't theft.

And before you accuse me of anything read my first post in this thread >_>

"PapaLazarou said:

I think Piracy is just due to the lazyness of developers.

No, it's laziness on your part. You don't make enough money to buy the amount of games you think you deserve and refuse to work more to gain the cash to pay for them."

"Piracy isn't theft.And before you accuse me of anything read my first post in this thread >_>"

"Al3xand3r said:

"Piracy isn't theft.And before you accuse me of anything read my first post in this thread >_>"

Actually it is.

n. the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc.
Source"

Eh, that's the definition of the word piracy, not theft, and it doesn't even mention the word theft in the explanation. Tus, piracy isn't theft as they even have different definitions in dictionaries.

Lol. I pirate games because I'm a cheap ass, and I don't game as hardcore as I used to (after having my 100+ collection stolen). I won't sit here and blame anyone but myself. It's free, and easy to do. I might get caught, but it's the risk I run. So what? You can piss over me for all I care because I pirate games, but in the end, it's my choice and I'll live with the consequences.

"In other words, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the argument except "You're wrong. I'm right." Please just go back to the IRC or just anywhere else where you're not wasting our time. "

"Milkman said:

"In other words, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the argument except "You're wrong. I'm right." Please just go back to the IRC or just anywhere else where you're not wasting our time. "

Milkman! Speaker for the collective! I'm sorry, master!/sarcasmI've contributed multiple things to the ongoing discussion in this topic. Mostly pointing out people's stupid double-standards and logic errors. The irony here is that you've done nothing in this thread besides flame other people in your usual ridiculous manner. You're making a fool of yourself at this point. Just stop. It's a little embarrassing to watch."

"Jayge said:

"Milkman said:

"In other words, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the argument except "You're wrong. I'm right." Please just go back to the IRC or just anywhere else where you're not wasting our time. "

Milkman! Speaker for the collective! I'm sorry, master!/sarcasmI've contributed multiple things to the ongoing discussion in this topic. Mostly pointing out people's stupid double-standards and logic errors. The irony here is that you've done nothing in this thread besides flame other people in your usual ridiculous manner. You're making a fool of yourself at this point. Just stop. It's a little embarrassing to watch."

Yeah I'm gonna jump in the wagon too and kick milkman too! Now that we got that out of the way... wow this thread is more than a month old and people are still flaming each other in it? I have to agree with Jayge that piracy is not the same as stealing.  I've pirated games, but those are games I would never buy anyway so it doesn't count. If say I want to buy Killzone 2 and instead I pirate it, that would I guess constitute as lost revenue for the company. But by large the majority of most games that are pirated are not equal to lost revenue. I find that the current punishment for piracy is unfair and idiotic, this problem will only get worse until people somehow find a way to use the internet to sell more. For me piracy is not a problem until companies do not have enough revenue to produce new properties, which is simply currently not true right now (except on the psp). Something must be done, yes but nothing will be solved by flaming each other in a forum."

"I have yet to see you contribute a single thing to the discussion besides your usual "You guys are stupid. I'm better than you" with absolutely nothing to back it up.  When you explain why piracy is okay, then maybe I can have a serious discussion with you. But until then, we'll just keep talking in circles while you jack yourself off while muttering to yourself how much smart you are than the internet. You're a fucking joke.

"

"You are a just lazy asshole who has no grasp of money and have never worked a day in your life."

"And if you had the brains to apply any of this to real world, then you would see this plan and clear. But instead you see "THIS FREE! ME GET!""

"You think as soon as someone releases an album they are instantly rich? You're an idiot. "

"Tons of developers have said this. It's not just EA. Why do you think Crytek is no longer developing PC exclusives?"

I have absolutely no desire to look through this entire thread but I'll just take a couple from this page.

"I have absolutely no desire to look through this entire thread but I'll just take a couple from this page.

Jayge said:

You're making a fool of yourself at this point. Just stop. It's a little embarrassing to watch."

Jayge said:

 Also, I don't take orders from bitchy little 15 year olds :-D

Jayge said:

a bunch of self-congratulating idiots

Nope, no flaming here.

"

"Milkman said:

Once again, as brought up a thousand times in this thread, if you steal a car from a dealership, can you just say "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" and get away with it? "

This pretty much sums up the point well, and should be understood by pretty much everyone. Its really not that difficult. I pull my hair out sometimes wondering how you can use something that doesn't belong to you, that you haven't purchased the right to use, and not call is theft? The lack of a physical stolen object has no bearing on things. As for those people who declare that piracy has no bearing on things, thus doesn't matter, that is beyond ignorant. Just look at how Crytek refuses to make PC exclusives anymore thanks to good ol' piracy. How long do you really think it will be until they stop making PC games all together?"

"Jayge said:

Nah. Not really. You are a bitchy little 15 year old, most of the people opposing piracy in this thread are self-congratulating idiots, and you *are* making a fool of yourself. Nothing really unreasonable there."

I love the 15 year old thing. Just a quick question, how the hell old are you? You sure look about 15 or 16 to me. And you are a fucking joke. And pirates are lazy assholes. It goes both ways. But once again, like I said, we're just talking in circles and you are still yet to explain why you think piracy is okay. 

"

"Jayge said:

You can test drive a car before you buy it. Legally. For free."

Sure, that's totally reasonable. But when you decide halfway through that test drive that "Hey, this is a mighty nice car, i think i'll just take it home and keep it. Oh, and not pay for it.", you get into some problems. What your argument is advocating is demos, not piracy. "

"The only game I ever downloaded illegally was Mount and Blade, because the demo restricted my ability to alter some settings that I needed to test out to make sure it ran well on my machine. It didn't run well, so I deleted it and haven't played it since."

"chililili said:

"Jayge said:

"Milkman said:

"In other words, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the argument except "You're wrong. I'm right." Please just go back to the IRC or just anywhere else where you're not wasting our time. "

Milkman! Speaker for the collective! I'm sorry, master!/sarcasmI've contributed multiple things to the ongoing discussion in this topic. Mostly pointing out people's stupid double-standards and logic errors. The irony here is that you've done nothing in this thread besides flame other people in your usual ridiculous manner. You're making a fool of yourself at this point. Just stop. It's a little embarrassing to watch."

Yeah I'm gonna jump in the wagon too and kick milkman too! Now that we got that out of the way... wow this thread is more than a month old and people are still flaming each other in it? I have to agree with Jayge that piracy is not the same as stealing.  I've pirated games, but those are games I would never buy anyway so it doesn't count. If say I want to buy Killzone 2 and instead I pirate it, that would I guess constitute as lost revenue for the company. But by large the majority of most games that are pirated are not equal to lost revenue. I find that the current punishment for piracy is unfair and idiotic, this problem will only get worse until people somehow find a way to use the internet to sell more. For me piracy is not a problem until companies do not have enough revenue to produce new properties, which is simply currently not true right now (except on the psp). Something must be done, yes but nothing will be solved by flaming each other in a forum."

Once again, as brought up a thousand times in this thread, if you steal a car from a dealership, can you just say "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" and get away with it? "

"Jayge said:

"The only game I ever downloaded illegally was Mount and Blade, because the demo restricted my ability to alter some settings that I needed to test out to make sure it ran well on my machine. It didn't run well, so I deleted it and haven't played it since."

You also lied at least once in your account there, and I remember someone else suggesting that you have pirated before. I wont make accusations that I can't support, so I wont question your credibility further than that.Also, you're arguing that because some car vendors allow test drives, it is reasonable to assume that customers have a right to test any products before they buy them. Rights are defined by law, and apparently there is no such law for software. For someone who apparently values logic, you don't seem to think very logically."

"Nah, the OP is advocating piracy because he can't play a demo. He can't figure out which game might be any good to spend his dollars on (see: reviews, such as those on this very site.) so he believes that not paying at all is a better idea. The OP can advocate demos all he wants, and I'll get behind him, sign a petition, wave a flag, whatever. But stealing a whole game, just to see what its like? Nope, no thanks."

Thievery is thievery.  You're not going to starve without that game, so go without it if you're not willing to pay for it.  No justification you can give will make what you do right.

You shall not steal.  (Exodus 20:15)

I think in many parts of the world, they cut off the fingers of thieves.  Try playing your PC games that way.

There are many laws that are debatable, but stealing isn't one of them.

"Milkman said:

"chililili said:

"Jayge said:

"Milkman said:

"In other words, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the argument except "You're wrong. I'm right." Please just go back to the IRC or just anywhere else where you're not wasting our time. "

Milkman! Speaker for the collective! I'm sorry, master!/sarcasmI've contributed multiple things to the ongoing discussion in this topic. Mostly pointing out people's stupid double-standards and logic errors. The irony here is that you've done nothing in this thread besides flame other people in your usual ridiculous manner. You're making a fool of yourself at this point. Just stop. It's a little embarrassing to watch."

Yeah I'm gonna jump in the wagon too and kick milkman too! Now that we got that out of the way... wow this thread is more than a month old and people are still flaming each other in it? I have to agree with Jayge that piracy is not the same as stealing.  I've pirated games, but those are games I would never buy anyway so it doesn't count. If say I want to buy Killzone 2 and instead I pirate it, that would I guess constitute as lost revenue for the company. But by large the majority of most games that are pirated are not equal to lost revenue. I find that the current punishment for piracy is unfair and idiotic, this problem will only get worse until people somehow find a way to use the internet to sell more. For me piracy is not a problem until companies do not have enough revenue to produce new properties, which is simply currently not true right now (except on the psp). Something must be done, yes but nothing will be solved by flaming each other in a forum."

Once again, as brought up a thousand times in this thread, if you steal a car from a dealership, can you just say "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" and get away with it? "

A car costs money to produce because of the materials. A video game, once uploaded to the internet is simply data from an ISO. It can be copied and pasted 100000x and cost the developers nothing. "

It is reasonable to assume that customers have a right to test any products before they buy them. That's why you can try on clothing in stores, get taste samples of ice cream, view and listen to a TV in the store, test out cell phones, mice, keyboards, try on shoes, read books at the bookstore before you buy them, lay down on a mattress at Sleepy's, etc. On the non-physical side of things, you can listen to music on the radio, YouTube, iTunes (in 30 second previews), you can watch previews of TV shows (and lots of times the entire show), get previews of articles written as subscriber content before you subscribe, etc. So yes. It is definitely reasonable to assume that a customer should be entitled to the right to try a product before they commit large sums of money to purchasing it.

"Jax said:

"Milkman said:

"chililili said:

"Jayge said:

"Milkman said:

"In other words, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the argument except "You're wrong. I'm right." Please just go back to the IRC or just anywhere else where you're not wasting our time. "

Milkman! Speaker for the collective! I'm sorry, master!/sarcasmI've contributed multiple things to the ongoing discussion in this topic. Mostly pointing out people's stupid double-standards and logic errors. The irony here is that you've done nothing in this thread besides flame other people in your usual ridiculous manner. You're making a fool of yourself at this point. Just stop. It's a little embarrassing to watch."

Yeah I'm gonna jump in the wagon too and kick milkman too! Now that we got that out of the way... wow this thread is more than a month old and people are still flaming each other in it? I have to agree with Jayge that piracy is not the same as stealing.  I've pirated games, but those are games I would never buy anyway so it doesn't count. If say I want to buy Killzone 2 and instead I pirate it, that would I guess constitute as lost revenue for the company. But by large the majority of most games that are pirated are not equal to lost revenue. I find that the current punishment for piracy is unfair and idiotic, this problem will only get worse until people somehow find a way to use the internet to sell more. For me piracy is not a problem until companies do not have enough revenue to produce new properties, which is simply currently not true right now (except on the psp). Something must be done, yes but nothing will be solved by flaming each other in a forum."

Once again, as brought up a thousand times in this thread, if you steal a car from a dealership, can you just say "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" and get away with it? "

A car costs money to produce because of the materials. A video game, once uploaded to the internet is simply data from an ISO. It can be copied and pasted 100000x and cost the developers nothing. "

Development costs quite a good deal, and such costs are only apart of the issue. More relevant is copyright. Similarly, writing a book costs very little, publishing it on the internet would cost no more than relatively small bandwidth costs. However, a full time writer would have invested a great deal of time that could have been spent working for a wage. People would buy his books because his ideas have value, and he is entitled to profit by selling them. Similarly, out time and skill also has value, even if it doesn't exist physically. That's why you are entitled to a wage when you work."

"Jax said:

"Milkman said:

"chililili said:

"Jayge said:

"Milkman said:

"In other words, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the argument except "You're wrong. I'm right." Please just go back to the IRC or just anywhere else where you're not wasting our time. "

Milkman! Speaker for the collective! I'm sorry, master!/sarcasmI've contributed multiple things to the ongoing discussion in this topic. Mostly pointing out people's stupid double-standards and logic errors. The irony here is that you've done nothing in this thread besides flame other people in your usual ridiculous manner. You're making a fool of yourself at this point. Just stop. It's a little embarrassing to watch."

Yeah I'm gonna jump in the wagon too and kick milkman too! Now that we got that out of the way... wow this thread is more than a month old and people are still flaming each other in it? I have to agree with Jayge that piracy is not the same as stealing.  I've pirated games, but those are games I would never buy anyway so it doesn't count. If say I want to buy Killzone 2 and instead I pirate it, that would I guess constitute as lost revenue for the company. But by large the majority of most games that are pirated are not equal to lost revenue. I find that the current punishment for piracy is unfair and idiotic, this problem will only get worse until people somehow find a way to use the internet to sell more. For me piracy is not a problem until companies do not have enough revenue to produce new properties, which is simply currently not true right now (except on the psp). Something must be done, yes but nothing will be solved by flaming each other in a forum."

Once again, as brought up a thousand times in this thread, if you steal a car from a dealership, can you just say "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" and get away with it? "

A car costs money to produce because of the materials. A video game, once uploaded to the internet is simply data from an ISO. It can be copied and pasted 100000x and cost the developers nothing. "

So what? Video game designers need to get paid too. Just because its easy doesn't make it right. Think of it like a movie. If someone makes a movie and 1 person films a bootleg and then distributes it to everyone else, the makers of that film are not getting paid for their work, even though money is not being directly taken out of their pockets. Same deal with video game makers. "

Look, I'm not going to sit here and judge you for stealing from working people and pretend like I'm any better. Yeah, I've pirated a game or two, like 2 or 3 movies, and a ton of music. I feel bad for it, but it's just really easy and instant satisfaction. But people grow up. You get real jobs and pay for your games and music. The people who poured their blood sweat and tears into their art deserve it. Don't blame companies for spending months making a game and not spending a few weeks making a demo. Just because they didn't spend the time to do that doesn't justify stealing their months of work. And, honestly, you pirate, and then you buy? I doubt that. But I do commend you on your honesty.

"Rorschach said:

"Milkman said:

Once again, as brought up a thousand times in this thread, if you steal a car from a dealership, can you just say "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" and get away with it? "

This pretty much sums up the point well, and should be understood by pretty much everyone. Its really not that difficult. I pull my hair out sometimes wondering how you can use something that doesn't belong to you, that you haven't purchased the right to use, and not call is theft? The lack of a physical stolen object has no bearing on things. As for those people who declare that piracy has no bearing on things, thus doesn't matter, that is beyond ignorant. Just look at how Crytek refuses to make PC exclusives anymore thanks to good ol' piracy. How long do you really think it will be until they stop making PC games all together?"

You can test drive a car before you buy it. Legally. For free."

EDIT:
@ Jax, obviously
Yes, and I pointed out why your point isn't valid. Ideas have value. If people are allowed to take ideas, then the ideas no longer have value, in the economic sense.

You do not have the right (rights are defined by law)

Yes, they are. Or are you one of those people that believe rights are magical values that just exist in the universe? And, if so, from what basis do you attack moral absolutists?

"Yes, they are. Or are you one of those people that believe rights are magical values that just exist in the universe? And, if so, from what basis do you attack moral absolutists?"

"EDIT:@ Jax, obviouslyYes, and I pointed out why your point isn't valid. Ideas have value. If people are allowed to take ideas, then the ideas no longer have value, in the economic sense. "

 You can't steal food because you don't know how it tastes. You can't steal a video game because you don't know how it plays. If you're not willing to take that gamble, tough shit. 

"Bellum said:

"Yes, they are. Or are you one of those people that believe rights are magical values that just exist in the universe? And, if so, from what basis do you attack moral absolutists?"

Rights are not defined by law. If they were, we would not have the right to do anything not defined by law. Which would be ridiculous. Which is why that statement is ridiculous."

"Sure they are. That's why the law can take your rights away. You aren't thinking about this logically, which I've come to expect. Rights do not exist objectively in the universe. They are an invented concept. Rights can be anything we want them to be as such, but from a practical standpoint they are defined by law. Otherwise, they would only have value to you, kind of like this nonsense that you keep asserting.Similarly, I could stand here and say that I have the right to stab your eyes out, but the rights defined by law might have something else to say about that."