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AhmadMetallic

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Battlefield 3 is shaping up to be a total joke

This is a rant blog, i guess....
*PS this is for people who have played Battlefield 2. If you haven't, I don't think you will relate
*PPS the fact that the game is in alpha stage doesn't mean it's gonna be 110% different when it's out. Alpha is the second step towards the golden stage, and this second step is messed up
*PPPS i'm not asking for realism or hardcore mode. those aren't the only solutions

Introducion: That player shot at a far away triangle, the result was that he killed another player. Does that sound right to you? think about that for 5 seconds, then proceed.

Now look at this new Battlefield 3 trailer:

----------------

So for those who were duped by DICE's promising interviews, telling us that Battlefield 3 is an actual sequel to Battlefield 2, using things like "Jets, big maps and prone!!1!!111!" to fool us, this blog is to inform you that you were in fact duped.

Battlefield 3
Battlefield 3

This is a very normal business step by EA, i'm not saying it's bizarre, i'm just very saddened by the fact that it eventually happened: They found that their PC-based content-rich skill-demanding not-so-rewarding games Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 didn't sell well, whereas their console spin-off Bad Company 2 made serious bank, so instead of milking the Bad Company series with BC3 in two years time, they were too eager and corrupted Battlefield 3 in order to cash in on people's hopes by the end of this year.

This game has nothing in common with Battlefield 2. only the fact that the conquest maps support 64 players.. that's it.

  • Just like BC2 and unlike BF2, there is no Commo Rose. You can't use pre-recorded commands to communicate with your team mates efficiently. We're going to be mute just like in BC2

2000+ post on the official forums protesting lack of Commo Rose

If you've never used this thing before, you really missed out.
If you've never used this thing before, you really missed out.

Here's a mock-up by a fan. tell me you dont love it:

No Caption Provided

[Full size]

  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, the ridiculously outrageous 3D spotting is back. You point at the enemy's base, tap the social button, see triangles light up, shoot at the triangles and get kills. You don't have to see the person to kill them. That is called "aim assist". the fact that you can see the triangle through walls and rocks and trees, is called "wallhacking". DICE solved the problem of cheats and hackers: they implemented that shit into their game.

3 hot threads protesting 3D Spotting: First, Second, Third.

Everyone shoot at the triangle, that makes you kill other people.
Everyone shoot at the triangle, that makes you kill other people.
  • Not only that, but squad leaders get a huge star stuffed NEXT to the spotting triangle on top of their heads, making people think twice before they start a squad.
  • The damage models are ridiculous. 3 taps and you're dead. If you have a triangle on your head, you're automatically doomed.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, teamwork stats are no-where to be seen. The scoreboard shows this: K, D, Score. the end-of-round stats consist of four screens listing your best kills and killstreaks.. yes, i said killstreaks in a Battlefield game
  • There doesn't seem to be any chain of command whatsoever. The squad leader position appears to do literally nothing. there is no commo rose to communicate, no giving orders, nothing.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, health regeneration is back. it takes 15 seconds to kick in, but once it does it goes all the way up rapidly. Once again, medics are only needed when someone dies
  • A new awesome feature: Vehicle health regeneration. 'nuff said.
  • Like BC2 and unlike BF2, there's still an aimbot knife in the game. All you have to do is tap the knife button when you're behind someone, and you're 100% guaranteed to hit them
  • The biggest emphasis of the Lead Designer of the game's multiplayer component, is the gunz.

There's already speculations that the conquest maps are gonna be linear and chokepoint-based (no matter how big they are), and that jets and helos will have health regeneration as well.

And so, it is clear that the huge bank that Bad Company 2 made, is totally blinding DICE from having any sense of principle and they're pretty much creating Bad Company 2 under a bigger better name.

They found that when they created games that had honest clean gameplay that encouraged teamwork, they didn't make enough money. Whereas when they created a game with triangles that are visible through walls and tell you where to shoot, they made money.

Yes i'll be buying the game, and yes i'm very excited for it, but the message i'm trying to convey here is that this game is not Battlefield 3.

If you think this is a typical "Bf3 is Bc3 !!" thread, give me a counter argument.

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TotalEklypse

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Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the spotted enemies only shown to the rest of your squad?  
 
The issue that is ticking me off more than any of the things you mentioned was player count on console versions. I planned on getting 2 copies, 1 for Pc obviously, and another for ps3....  
 
Most of the friends I play games with now are on consoles and don't have a pc as strong as mine to be able to run the game. 
 
They made the official announcement today ( I think ) that it would only be 24 players on the console. I know the speculation was tossed around for a while now, but as far as i have heard, they never made it 100% official that this would be the player count. Don't get me wrong I wasn't expecting 64 on console, that would be a dumb ass assumption.. but I was hoping for like 40. 
 
O well BF3 on PC.. and BF3:lite for consoles lol

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TotalEklypse

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@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@MattyFTM said:

You raise some good points. You've done a great job of explaining what is wrong with the game. The problem is that you haven't mentioned anything about how they could rectify it and make the game better. 

Here you go : 
1. Include the commo rose 
2. nerf the 3D spotting so shooting underneath it no longer means a guaranteed kill. Make it stop moving when you break line of sight of the enemy. Or remove the 3d cone all-together and keep the marker on the minimap only  
3. Slow down health regeneration so it's a player's last hope. Look for medics as much as you can, then after a significant period of time if you fail to get healed, your health gets cranked up a bit 
4. Drop the bullet damage. give a chance for an assaulted player to fight back rather than knowing that he's gonna die once he begins getting shot. 
5. include some form of chain-of-command interface. Fine, you dont want the commander, he was too complex. Then just a simple screen allowing the "squad leader" to give orders to his "squad members", otherwise whats the point of the leader/member system? 
6. This game is all about the objective. accomplishing your mission and going after your objective is the axis that makes the entire game go round. makes players kill each other, makes them utilize vehicles, etc..  Removing the teamwork stats from the end-of-round stats, and not having a teamwork score on the scoreboard, is wrong. Include them. 
 
  
 
 
1. Agreed 
2. That is actually a really good idea.. the line of sight part. When someone moves after being spotted the marker gets left behind. 
3. I like that also, healbots could use more work on the field. 
4. Fuck no, if someone gets the drop on you then respawn. I get sick as hell of the takes 2 clips to kill people shit in games. I want closer to real bullet damage. 
5. Simplified command system makes sense, helps combat the problem of commandtards out there. 
6. I thought I saw teamwork points pop up in a video I watched of actual game play. Like bonus points and such. Not sure if it is shown in after game report, but pretty sure it does matter in terms of progression. Which is what people want to do right. The morons who just camp and try to get kills, get way less points exp wise than the ones out there winning the game.
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@Origina1Penguin said:
I haven't actually played it yet so I don't know if it is fun, but here my thoughts on your bullet points: 
 
  • 3D spotting
I actually really enjoyed the spotting in BC2. That said, I know it can be cheap. For example, being able to see enemies over distances or behind objects that you would normally not be able to. I also cheesed it in BC2 by using smoke a lot, then tapping the spot key until I could 'see' and shoot someone through the smoke. My proposed solution: When you spot someone, it leaves a 3D mark at the location you spotted them but does not follow the enemy. It could fade out over... let's say 30 seconds, so you 'see' how long ago an enemy was there. Other possible suggestions: you can only spot for your squad mates; you can only spot as a certain class (like recon); you can only spot as a squad leader; the 3D spot indicator size changes based on distance. There's no shortage of ideas DICE could come up with to ease the issue. 

  • Squad Leader spotting
I don't like this idea unless there is a big incentive for being a squad leader over other squad member. How would you even know if the game didn't tell you? A vehicle spotted icon is what I rather have (don't know if this is in the game or not).

  • Damage
This is a problem I noticed in BC2. Damage doesn't seem to depreciate over distance. Assault rifles are also crazy accurate with single shot controlled fire. An exponential decrease in damage over distance may be a solution, but that something the coders would have to toy with to get a good curve on the damage graph. 

  • Scoreboard
I think the scoreboard should be different depending on the mode you play. The Conquest and Rush scoreboards should tailor to teamwork and squad stats. Showing kills and deaths is fine because it affects ticket counts, but emphasis should be on squad stats and team efforts. I liked the pins in BC2 that showed you were helping the team, but only I could see my own. My score was the only thing other players had to go by. For team deathmatch, the scoreboard you described sounds adequate, but again, I'd like certain pin-worthy actions to be noted. 

  • Chain of command
This isn't a problem for me. I don't care much for that type of gameplay. The only commands I need worked just fine in BC2 using the spot key. Look at a teammate and 'spot' them to ask for ammo, health, etc. depending on the class of the teammate. 'Spot' an objective to order your squad to go that way. The chain of command stuff doesn't really do anything for me. The idea of sticking with your squad is good enough. 

  • Health regen
It's always an iffy ordeal no matter what game it is. You have to wonder if there's a better way. I thought it worked fine in BC2 even though I was initially opposed to the idea. However, if I was on the development side, I would toy with the idea of regenerating to a point that can't be passed until healed by a medic. 15 seconds is a long time though, so I think it will be just fine. 

  • Vehicle 'health' regen
I have to think you're joking because this is the worst idea of heard, period. Vehicles dominate enough when they need repaired. If they can repair themselves, then they'll just be a nuisance to the game. As I said, I haven't played the game any for testing but this really sounds bad. If I had to pick one thing from your list that actually bothered me, it would be this. 

  • Knife
This sounds like it would make entering a house or other close quarters space a nightmare. I don't want it to go away entirely though. I suggest making a window of let's say 120 degrees (60 left and 60 right) for the front of a player model where the knife will not go into an instant kill animation but instead would just slash for a good amount of damage. This way, the knife still works on a player's side and back but will not work if you just rush straight at someone. 

  • Multiplayer design
I can't comment on this because I've only seen a couple levels in gameplay. They looked fine to me, but were a bit small. 
  I haven't played BF2 or 2142, but I've played all the other BF games. This game does indeed sound like it is furthering Bad Company's style, but that seems like a natural evolution to the series. I'm sure I would think differently if I played BF2 and had the fond memories of that you do, but I don't know what made that game more special that BC2. The only thing I've really heard about BF2 was the emphasis on giving orders and having a large player count. I don't see why there's no [optional] commands system, especially because I never hear anyone talk on BC2 (PC), but the squad system worked well in BC2 and I think it'll be okay here. I think I remember 64 player count promised for PC Conquest, is that still the case? Also, do you know if squad sizes have increased? With so many players, I think allowing 5 or 6 per squad is reasonable.
You got the wrong idea on some of those because he didn't expand on them.
 
There are two ways to knife, one is the lock-on knife that requires you to equip the knife as a weapon (and therefore not have your rifle out to protect yourself if a guy turns around before you are close enough to knife) and it only works 100% from behind the enemy.  If you knife from the front, they have a chance to counter.  There is also the quick-knife, which is a Call of Duty-like animation that seems to have no lock-on at all, and it takes two slashes to kill.
 
The vehicle health regen, from what I have heard, is not a lot of health regen.  At most, it is 5 or 10% from what I have read.  Which makes some sense, if the tank is hit by a missile the initial shockwave could knock out some systems in the tank and they could come back on or something if someone really needs it to be explained.
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InternetCrab

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Edited By InternetCrab

 
Battlefield 2 and Bad Company were both awesome.
 
Just because of the spotting system does not mean the game will be bad.

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Origina1Penguin

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Edited By Origina1Penguin
@xobballox: Thanks for clearing it up for me. Those two things sound fine then, if they work the way you describe them.
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There's no ninja-knives to chest by your third arm like in MW, so i'm all good. I'll take orange triangles over this any day. 
 
Edit : If BF is a joke, so is MW then. Thing is, everyone loves to laugh. Think about that.
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Edited By geirr

Can I aim my gun somewhere and shoot dudes? I can? Cool.

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Edited By kermoosh
@Ahmad_Metallic
well with the 3d spotting, i understand that it gives an undeserved kill, however that video is pretty extreme
i've gotten a few kills before like that but never got that many, it seems like the map design caused that situation to arise along with a high player count, cus on xbox you get those moments but games  usually are not as actiony as pc, im guessing which has 64 players
 
and as much as the 3d spotting can get annoying, it helps you kill a camper thats killed you a few times. 
plus the camper in that 7 kill spree can be halted if he's spotted as well
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Battlefield as I know it isn't about racking up the kills, it is about completing objectives that'll win you the battle. If someone camps, it might be a sniper holding down a position, racking up kills aids the war, but it isn't the essence of battlefield to go stats-whoring around like some Counter-strike degenerate.
 
2D spotting in Battlefield 2 worked out well, and DICE should know better. I absolutely agree with those that want the pin-point accuracy of 3D spotting to be defenestrated at once.

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Edited By Nomin
@Ahmad_Metallic: Wow that 3D spotting system is pretty retarded. 
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Edited By KowalskiManDown

I think BC2 was better than BF2 in a lot of ways.

Times are changing man, as are games... what you seem to be asking for is BF2 with a BF3 texture pack.

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deactivated-6281db536cb1d

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@creamypies: Agreed.

The only thing I'd want from BC2 were some more vehicle-oriented maps and jets.

Sounds like they are delivering both.

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Edited By JamesKond

The bullets being 'effected' by graffity is what I liked about BC2, if that's out... I don't know how I feel about that :)

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@Ahmad_Metallic: I honestly don't see a problem with that footage. Most of the time I saw dudes moving. Only occasionally did he blind fire into trees.

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Edited By infininja

I wouldn't mind some changes being made to 3D spotting, but I'd be disappointed if it was removed.

Bullet damage decreases over distance in a similar fashion as CoD.

@JamesKond said:

The bullets being 'effected' by graffity is what I liked about BC2, if that's out... I don't know how I feel about that :)

*affect

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Edited By yinstarrunner

I had a lot of fun with bc2, but I was under the assumption that it was a spinoff and that the BF fans were in for a bigger, better sequel to BF2. BC2 did a lot of cool things, but it was also missing some things that made BF2 stand out. Now they're adding some of them back in (jets, 64 players), but at the end of the day it doesn't seem like this game will touch on the depth of the previous game. I don't like it when sequel get streamlined for the sake of sales. I want battlefield 2, refined, sure, modernized, sure, but with MORE in it.

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic
@Sitoxity said:

I'd much rather look at the medic/assault and quickly press one button to say "can I have ammo/medkit?" than going through the, let's face it, annoying menu that was in BF2. The only way it was fast in that is if you remembered each and every position on that thing. Even voice commands in TF2 are easier.

I hate to sound disrespectful but you're being absurd, no? It's like 10 commands, play the game for over 5 hours and you'll memorize them, and clearly you didn't. Even if you don't, how is looking around during the battle until you find someone with a medic icon next to their name is quicker than opening a transparent wheel window, looking through them quickly and picking the one you want ? 

Your issue with spotting sounds less and less solid the more this thread goes on. It's not the equivilant of "aimbots," it's the same as someone (in real war or over voice communication) saying "Look, there's a guy down there in the trees! If you pelt that area with bullets, you might get him!"

No good sir, the 2D spotting that shows their location on a clear minimap is a guy pointing at a place and saying look. When i point at something and tell you to look, you look at the general area of where i pointed, not get an icon that is fixed on my target.. Hey, you wanna keep those triangles? fine, but what about the problem of the fact that if you shoot under it, even through trees, you kill people on the other side? 

As much as BF2 was fun, BC2 is the better game. Fuck the guns and accuracy in BF2, I like HITTING the things I SHOOT AT.

The shooting sucked in BF2 and i'm looking forward to the satisfying BC2-esque shooting in BF3. I'm asking for a proper sequel not a BF2 remake, i don't want it remade or have its problems. 
 
 
@Akrid:  Ok this is getting ridiculous, you took each and every command and showed me how its useless? You do realize this is a competitive video game based on working with your team right? You do realize that things like "get out" can be quite helpful when we're both in a helicopter and you want me out and i DONT REALIZE IT because you DIDNT TELL ME and therefore im sitting there waiting for you, or if you see a bunch of enemies sneaking towards a flag and you dont have time to explain, you hit 'follow me' and i do follow you and bam, we're tracking those enemies and killing them together.. 
Please, dont give me that analysis, think of the commands used during a fight and in very tight situations and you'll see how swift and useful they can be. 
 
  

@XII_Sniper said: 

Yeah 2D minimap isn't spotting, sorry. It's no different than COD's UAV system except even that was an improvement. Solders don't have maps implanted in their eyeballs, but the triangle represents a soldier pointing out a foe at you.

Proves to me that what you in fact want isnt spotting, but a dynamic icon almost ensuring you the kill. 2D spotting is spotting, because it shows the enemy's exact location on a map as "marked" by your friend. its your job to see him with your eyeballs, you're not a cyborg who can fix flashing triangles ontop of enemies in real life.  
And no, the UAV system in COD is a killstreak award that is temporary, whereas 32 players continuously spotting enemies manually is much more teamworky and constant 
 

Also everything you've been saying gives the impression that you just want a graphical retouching of BF2. Personally I prefer progress

Nope, I've been playing BF2 for like 4 years, i have no interest in playing again. I'm dying for the NEW weapons, gameplay features, add-ons, maps, hit reg system etc... But in a game that is a sequel to BF2 in more than just a name. 
Also, to all of those saying i want a BF2 sequel, you seem to be ok with the fact that BF3 is more or less a BC2 sequel. I thought you wanted something new?
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deactivated-6281db536cb1d

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Honestly I prefer Battlefield 1942.

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AhmadMetallic

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Edited By AhmadMetallic

 @creamypies  said: 


I think BC2 was better than BF2 in a lot of ways.

Times are changing man, as are games... what you seem to be asking for is BF2 with a BF3 texture pack.


Nope, i don't want BF2 remastered, that's no fun, it isn't exciting or worth the money. I want a new game that looks and feels entirely new, new maps and weapons, new tricks to learn and techniques to master.. but it has to be related to its predecessor in more than just the title. That's what a sequel is. 
But it shouldn't be too similar, i agree. Speaking of that, it's looking extremely similar to BC2, why is that being tolerated?

 
@allworkandlowpay

said:

I'm old and I don't like change!

I'm 20 
 

@Cirdain

said:

That last photo was fucking hilarious

I know :D the folks over at the EAUK forums are pretty funny 
 
 

@Origina1Penguin

:  Good post, you seem to think reasonably  
 
 
@TotalEklypse: Spotting shows up for your entire team, and 24p on consoles has been confirmed for months. The more players they add, the more graphical and technical goodness they must tone down.. They'd rather have a 24p game that is fun and looks good, than a 40p game thats janky and not so pretty 
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deactivated-5fb7c57ae2335

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This thread had a good enough idea behind it, but terrible execution. I agree that the 3D is not a great advance, and that there is a problem with it. It was good when people were constructive and offered their ideas on how to fix it. Rather than flame war and bitch. God, I hate the fucking internet sometimes.

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TotalEklypse

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Edited By TotalEklypse
@Ahmad_Metallic said: 
@TotalEklypse: Spotting shows up for your entire team, and 24p on consoles has been confirmed for months. The more players they add, the more graphical and technical goodness they must tone down.. They'd rather have a 24p game that is fun and looks good, than a 40p game thats janky and not so pretty 
It wasn't 100% confirmed. I actually just saw a dev diary somewhere in the last week or so that says they were still working on the final number. 
They said without a doubt it would be 24 now on console. Which was recently posted elsewhere. They also went on to say how the game itself was scaled down in terms of size to run on consoles. Maps were compacted to fit 24p.  They claim it wasn't a major downgrade but who knows.  
 
That being said, everyone knows that a console game can not compete with the visuals of the PC version. It wouldn't have been major to tweak it down just a tad to get more players in. I'm sure the gunplay wont be terribly different as long as spawn locations work to keep the people near by when needed. However they claim this will have the jets and all the other things like the PC versions, which I honestly can't see working with such a low player base. 
 
All in all, It being on a console is a bad joke for me. Just think of how much more could have went to the PC development, had they not needed to split things up to make special considerations for console. I think some of these points you complained about stem from it having to fit a more mainstream console audience. Some of it seems like training wheels.
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Seppli

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Edited By Seppli
@TotalEklypse said:

@Ahmad_Metallic said: 

@TotalEklypse: Spotting shows up for your entire team, and 24p on consoles has been confirmed for months. The more players they add, the more graphical and technical goodness they must tone down.. They'd rather have a 24p game that is fun and looks good, than a 40p game thats janky and not so pretty 

It wasn't 100% confirmed. I actually just saw a dev diary somewhere in the last week or so that says they were still working on the final number. They said without a doubt it would be 24 now on console. Which was recently posted elsewhere. They also went on to say how the game itself was scaled down in terms of size to run on consoles. Maps were compacted to fit 24p.  They claim it wasn't a major downgrade but who knows.   That being said, everyone knows that a console game can not compete with the visuals of the PC version. It wouldn't have been major to tweak it down just a tad to get more players in. I'm sure the gunplay wont be terribly different as long as spawn locations work to keep the people near by when needed. However they claim this will have the jets and all the other things like the PC versions, which I honestly can't see working with such a low player base.  All in all, It being on a console is a bad joke for me. Just think of how much more could have went to the PC development, had they not needed to split things up to make special considerations for console. I think some of these points you complained about stem from it having to fit a more mainstream console audience. Some of it seems like training wheels.
Of course, BF3 as it is would never have happend as a PC-exclusive. So that point's moot. Can't have top notch production quality pushing the boundries and be a PC platform-exclusive (outside of Blizzard games and MMORPGs). For example - you can get tousands of professionally recorded high quality and authentic VO lines, or you can have ARMA's wierd ass robot voices. That sort of jazz...
 
Also - it was a struggle to conquer the console-space (and it's still suffering a bit from its PC-background - PC crowd being elitst about multiplatform and consoles feeling a little left-out), they'll never take their foot out of the door and smack all their hard-won console fans in the face (there probably are already more BF fans on consoles than on PC).
 
As for training wheels... that's a ridicoulus notion. Core rulesets with higher TTK and 3D spotting is way harder to excell at than hardcore rulesets with low TTK and no spotting. Going 'loud' usually means getting spotted and hence you have to be very mindful of angles and move a lot. Overexpose yourself a split-second too long, get greedy - you'll get lit-up by half the enemy team. It's the opposite of training wheels. It's rocking out with your cock out.
 
Despite 3D spotting and all that jazz, I still manage to go flawless and close-to-flawless more often than not - whilst going for objectives and shooting for Ace. It's all a matter of awareness. If you are aware of 3d spotting, it's nothing to look down upon as a crutch. It's a weapon and a constant danger (and feels very authentic - going loud is dangerous).
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...so let me get this straight... 
 
Step One: Bad Company 2 is released on PC 
Step Two: PC players whine about lack of jets, prone and 64 players. 
Step Three: BF3 has jets, prone and 64 players. 
Step Four: PC players continue to whine anyway.  
 
...is it impossible to strike a balance without straight up re-releasing Battlefield 2?

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lawlerballer

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Edited By lawlerballer

3d spotting should only be allowed on vehicles 

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Beaudacious

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1. If you play with spotting in BC2 then please go play call of duty. If you disagree I'd gladly play some bc2 with you, with spotting on, and make you cry wall hacks till you uninstall. Like how people defend progression, until they get grieffed by someone who understands why this "progression" is a broken concept.
2. I'd worry more about the atrocious lag/hitboxes incoming when bf3 is released. Honestly the more we develop the fps genre, the lag/hitboxes get worse and worse. I know for casuals its hold down the button, and pray for 95% of the time. But there is nothing worse in a fps, then knowing the shot you just missed was 100% on target.
3. Hardcore mode is there for people who want a meager resemblance of what once was the greatness of battlefield.
 
I hate the current fps scene, its either play super sim Arma, or play a super arcady shooter. There is no in between anymore, and honestly if i want purely Arcade I'll go play some TF2 ( Best Arcade shooter). Also anyone in this discussion from the console crowd should not have an opinion in regards to BF3. You'll play your watered down bf3 with auto-aim-assist, spotting, no ff, regenerating vehicles, regenerating health, lag compensation, hell why the fuck do you even play these games? Might as well watch Youtube videos, while texting your friends how you made it into mlg.

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Subjugation

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@Seppli said:

If you are aware of 3d spotting, it's nothing to look down upon as a crotch.

I ... never thought about it that way.

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Seppli

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@weeman105 said:

@Seppli said:

If you are aware of 3d spotting, it's nothing to look down upon as a crotch.

I ... never thought about it that way.

Nice catch! You must excell at my favorite Battlefield skill... 'Where is Waldo?'
 
hint: In the fucking bushes!
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AhmadMetallic

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I like how playing the alpha did not change my opinion (i dont like it i fucking hate it!), and how the alpha forums are full with hundreds of posts protesting BF3 feeling exactly like Medal of Honor 2010 

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FirePrince

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Regenerating zombie tanks.
Fear the future.

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meteora

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A lot has changed since BF2. Games will be easier, no matter what. Its unfortunate in a few ways. I'll have to play the game firsthand before I can make a judgement.

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Baal_Sagoth

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I can understand why BFBC2 and maybe even BF3 might not satisfy you as a BF2 fan and there sure are major differences between these games. But I personally can't say that I'm unhappy with BFBC2 at all. It is my most played BF game together with BF1942 and BF Vietnam. The series always changed and BF2 was already a major step away from the original concept with far more limited vehicle options and stuff like that. You could have launched similar attacks against that game too. Admittedly, I'm fairly neutral to spotting. It can help a lot and it also can lead to pretty cheap feeling deaths. On top of that I'm quite happy with the requests initiated via "q". Sure it's slightly more limited but also much more convenient than opening a radial menu every time in my opinion.

But it is of course pointless to argue about preference. I'm still looking forward to BF 3 personally.

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Sitoxity

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@fuddles: Unfortunately for the OP, no. There's no pleasing him.

After playing a good few games in the Alpha, I don't see where the complaints are coming from. It plays extremely well and is honestly the most fun in Battlefield I've had for a very long time. It's even better than Project Reality. The Spotting isn't as bad as BC2, the Regen doesn't regenerate all your health (or all the vehicles for that matter) and the guns feel and react a lot nicer. In general, vast improvement.

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Cretaceous_Bob

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I really don't understand what is so bad about the spotting system. I felt like that augmented teamwork better than any stupid list of commands. With but a few button presses an entire chain of teamwork takes place:

GUY 1: "YO DAWGS, FUCKING SHOOT THAT PRICK"

GUY 2 fucking shoots that prick.

That's a goddamn team. Besides, the spotting system taught you to keep your fucking head down. There was never a time when I felt like the spotting system was unfair to me. When I got blasted from across the map because I was standing on top of a hill, that isn't the spotting system's fault. That was my goddamn fault for standing out in the open on a hill overlooking the entire map.

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deactivated-5a00c029ab7c1

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@fuddles said:

...so let me get this straight...  Step One: Bad Company 2 is released on PC Step Two: PC players whine about lack of jets, prone and 64 players. Step Three: BF3 has jets, prone and 64 players. Step Four: PC players continue to whine anyway.   ...is it impossible to strike a balance without straight up re-releasing Battlefield 2?

To make it simple we don't want bad company 2 gameplay features in BF3 there two completely different franchises but from reading and watching the new gameplay videos this looks more like bad company 3.0.Yes they added the jets and prone but there's alot more in the core series then just that the pacing should be slower like BF2 not so arcadey like COD also there should be more squads members,commander needs to be back and comma rose ect.
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crazyleaves

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@JEC03: Well go make your own game then, I don't understand you people and your "demands". If you like BF2 go play it, if you don't like BC2 don't play it. Oh yeah, the game isn't even out yet and everybody's accusing DICE and EA of butchering their children. Oh Internets....
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@crazyleaves said:

@JEC03: Well go make your own game then, I don't understand you people and your "demands". If you like BF2 go play it, if you don't like BC2 don't play it. Oh yeah, the game isn't even out yet and everybody's accusing DICE and EA of butchering their children. Oh Internets....

Why shouldn't the fans have a right to vent their opinions on a franchise they've played for the past ten years? Has nothing to do with the internet. It's about the fanbase that allowed them to go on to experiment with Mirror's Edge, develop Bad Company and even make a good sequel of it. Now they are making BF3, but what has been seen so far feels more like Bad Company 3. Of course the fanbase gets concerned. This whole "don't like it, don't play it" is certainly becoming a testament to this game if they go with that mantra and alienate the fans that got them to where they are today.

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@JEC03 said:
@fuddles said:

...so let me get this straight...  Step One: Bad Company 2 is released on PC Step Two: PC players whine about lack of jets, prone and 64 players. Step Three: BF3 has jets, prone and 64 players. Step Four: PC players continue to whine anyway.   ...is it impossible to strike a balance without straight up re-releasing Battlefield 2?

To make it simple we don't want bad company 2 gameplay features in BF3 there two completely different franchises but from reading and watching the new gameplay videos this looks more like bad company 3.0.Yes they added the jets and prone but there's alot more in the core series then just that the pacing should be slower like BF2 not so arcadey like COD also there should be more squads members,commander needs to be back and comma rose ect.
I'll admit that I haven't played a core Battlefield game since Vietnam, but I guess I can see where you're coming from. But I think the issue is, as people seem to be preaching across this entire thread, is that if you were to just remake Battlefield 2 with new maps, it would feel incredibly dated. As much as maybe even I don't like to accept it, games are trying to become a lot more accessible for anybody who happens to just stumble upon it and pick up a controller/keyboard, and the Bad Company series brought those advancements.  
 
Then again, I can safely say nobody here has played the full version of Battlefield 3. These are things that can be added if there's enough demand for it, with maybe the exception of commander mode, I have the feeling DICE just literally doesn't like that feature. I think the same looks accessible enough for people who are, per say, just wondering over from COD to enjoy it, but has enough meat on its bones that when you dig in a lot deeper, there are a lot of things to explore and learn. I dunno, long post is long.
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@Cretaceous_Bob said:

I really don't understand what is so bad about the spotting system. I felt like that augmented teamwork better than any stupid list of commands. With but a few button presses an entire chain of teamwork takes place:

GUY 1: "YO DAWGS, FUCKING SHOOT THAT PRICK"

GUY 2 fucking shoots that prick.

That's a goddamn team. Besides, the spotting system taught you to keep your fucking head down. There was never a time when I felt like the spotting system was unfair to me. When I got blasted from across the map because I was standing on top of a hill, that isn't the spotting system's fault. That was my goddamn fault for standing out in the open on a hill overlooking the entire map.

That'd be nice and all if it didn't spot through bushes and some cover. Or from a million miles away when the dude is like 1 pixel on your screen. You literally can't be safe in the game. You can never feel like you've escaped the enemy eyes cause, let's assume you were standing on this hill and got spotted, fair enough that's your fault that time, so you turn and run away, but guess what? The enemy team still knows exactly where you are even though you aren't on their screen, thanks to this handy little orange triangle showing up THROUGH the hill now and showing where you are going. So they follow it along and wait for it to pop out at the exact moment you come out of cover again. Now your dead. Was THAT fair? 
 
As if to prove a point, I just got a kill across the entire outdoor section, through a tree, smoke, and a bush by pot shotting at a random orange triangle. Did I ever see the dude? Hell naw!
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I'd like to see DICE to change 3D spotting, but not in a dramatic way. What if you spot your target with a social button (Q) and the target appears RED on the radar for everyone, and will get this "giant" RED triangle above his head, but only you and your squad can see triangle above target's head and the rest of your team can see the spotted target only on the radar?

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@evilrazer said:
I'd like to see DICE to change 3D spotting, but not in a dramatic way. What if you spot your target with a social button (Q) and the target appears RED on the radar for everyone, and will get this "giant" RED triangle above his head, but only you and your squad can see triangle above target's head and the rest of your team can see the spotted target only on the radar?
Something like that, maybe only nearby players can see it cause IRL you would shout out a dude and only those around you would hear. Personally I'm more in favour of you spot the dude, the triangle appears where he is, DOES NOT FOLLOW HIM IF HE MOVES, and then disappears after a shorter time (like 3 seconds or something.)
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crazyleaves

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@PhatSeeJay said:

@crazyleaves said:

@JEC03: Well go make your own game then, I don't understand you people and your "demands". If you like BF2 go play it, if you don't like BC2 don't play it. Oh yeah, the game isn't even out yet and everybody's accusing DICE and EA of butchering their children. Oh Internets....

Why shouldn't the fans have a right to vent their opinions on a franchise they've played for the past ten years? Has nothing to do with the internet. It's about the fanbase that allowed them to go on to experiment with Mirror's Edge, develop Bad Company and even make a good sequel of it. Now they are making BF3, but what has been seen so far feels more like Bad Company 3. Of course the fanbase gets concerned. This whole "don't like it, don't play it" is certainly becoming a testament to this game if they go with that mantra and alienate the fans that got them to where they are today.

It is about the Internet, fan entitlement is fucking gross. Nothing like a bunch of untalented entitled feeling assholes criticizing your work. It happens to bands, authors, directors, you name it. And just like the OP the majority of these whiners will buy, play and love this game. Hah!
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Cretaceous_Bob

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@Chavtheworld said:

That'd be nice and all if it didn't spot through bushes and some cover. Or from a million miles away when the dude is like 1 pixel on your screen. You literally can't be safe in the game. You can never feel like you've escaped the enemy eyes cause, let's assume you were standing on this hill and got spotted, fair enough that's your fault that time, so you turn and run away, but guess what? The enemy team still knows exactly where you are even though you aren't on their screen, thanks to this handy little orange triangle showing up THROUGH the hill now and showing where you are going. So they follow it along and wait for it to pop out at the exact moment you come out of cover again. Now your dead. Was THAT fair? As if to prove a point, I just got a kill across the entire outdoor section, through a tree, smoke, and a bush by pot shotting at a random orange triangle. Did I ever see the dude? Hell naw!

The icon disappears after a bit and someone has to be watching you to spot you, and he would be able to see roughly where you're going, which the spot mechanic does just as effectively. When I play a game without a spotting mechanic, I communicate through voice chat an enemy's position and where he is going. Is that fair?

I have no problem with a system that broadcasts my position to the entire enemy team if someone on that team makes visual contact with me. This very thread whines about teamwork, then whines about a mechanic that is an ingenious method of promoting teamwork.

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Bollard

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@Cretaceous_Bob said:

@Chavtheworld said:

That'd be nice and all if it didn't spot through bushes and some cover. Or from a million miles away when the dude is like 1 pixel on your screen. You literally can't be safe in the game. You can never feel like you've escaped the enemy eyes cause, let's assume you were standing on this hill and got spotted, fair enough that's your fault that time, so you turn and run away, but guess what? The enemy team still knows exactly where you are even though you aren't on their screen, thanks to this handy little orange triangle showing up THROUGH the hill now and showing where you are going. So they follow it along and wait for it to pop out at the exact moment you come out of cover again. Now your dead. Was THAT fair? As if to prove a point, I just got a kill across the entire outdoor section, through a tree, smoke, and a bush by pot shotting at a random orange triangle. Did I ever see the dude? Hell naw!

The icon disappears after a bit and someone has to be watching you to spot you, and he would be able to see roughly where you're going, which the spot mechanic does just as effectively. When I play a game without a spotting mechanic, I communicate through voice chat an enemy's position and where he is going. Is that fair?

I have no problem with a system that broadcasts my position to the entire enemy team if someone on that team makes visual contact with me. This very thread whines about teamwork, then whines about a mechanic that is an ingenious method of promoting teamwork.

Can you tell people exactly where the enemy is standing, behind a wall, and which side they will pop out on next, and be right every time? 
 
That's the problem. As I said, if it showed first location only, and faded, all would be fine.
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raviolisumo

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@RiotBananas said:

Also, as someone who played the shit out of BF2 and BC2

BC2 > BF2.

This. I have no shame in admitting I had way more fun with BC2.

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@Sitoxity said:

@fuddles: Unfortunately for the OP, no. There's no pleasing him.

After playing a good few games in the Alpha, I don't see where the complaints are coming from. It plays extremely well and is honestly the most fun in Battlefield I've had for a very long time. It's even better than Project Reality. The Spotting isn't as bad as BC2, the Regen doesn't regenerate all your health (or all the vehicles for that matter) and the guns feel and react a lot nicer. In general, vast improvement.

First of all, it's not about "pleasing me", it's about millions of fans to whom Battlefield games is an acquired taste that is fading away. Go to the Battlelog forums or official EA forums and see the phenomenal outcry 
And secondly, are you trolling or what's your deal?  
plays extremely well? if someone sees you before you see them, there's a 90% chance you're already on the ground. This is the most fun Battlefield you've played? 3-tap-death? 
the spotting allowed me to harvest several kills on a shitty PC with bad performance by lying on a rock behind the Mcoms, tapping Q in the enemy base's direction and shooting underneath triangles. Out of 15 kills i got in my short playtime, 10 of which i didnt not see who im shooting at. 
regen does all your health and it does it rapidly. play a little more and watch carefully 
the guns dont have nearly as much recoil as they should have, and like i said, they're very OP and cause your victim to drop before they know what him them or where from. 
 
 
@Cretaceous_Bob said:

I really don't understand what is so bad about the spotting system. I felt like that augmented teamwork better than any stupid list of commands. With but a few button presses an entire chain of teamwork takes place:

That's a goddamn team. Besides, the spotting system taught you to keep your fucking head down. There was never a time when I felt like the spotting system was unfair to me. When I got blasted from across the map because I was standing on top of a hill, that isn't the spotting system's fault. That was my goddamn fault for standing out in the open on a hill overlooking the entire map.

Clearly you didn't watch the BF3 video in the OP, and didn't see my comment about harvesting my own kills by shooting at triangles without seeing any people 
Also, you should play the alpha and see how everyone is camping and hiding, molesting walls and crawling through trees. You wanna keep your head down? well, its gotten so bad that all heads are down and the game turned into fucking hide and seek. I barely see any real shootouts, half the time the map is fucking empty. 
everyone knows that if you try to do your job (run at the objective) you're gonna get orange-triangle'd and killed off.. how fucking laughable is that ? 
 
  

@crazyleaves said:
@JEC03: Well go make your own game then, I don't understand you people and your "demands". If you like BF2 go play it, if you don't like BC2 don't play it. Oh yeah, the game isn't even out yet and everybody's accusing DICE and EA of butchering their children. Oh Internets....
Uh, no, i'm not supposed to make my own game because I don't know how to make a game.  
You don't understand our "demands" ? You're a wonderful customer who demands quality in the products he purchases and doesn't let the developer walk all over him, aren't you? /sarcasm 
 
 
 
@Wes899 said:

@RiotBananas said:

Also, as someone who played the shit out of BF2 and BC2

BC2 > BF2.

This. I have no shame in admitting I had way more fun with BC2.

Guys, you know what? Fuck it, yes Bad Company 2 had the better graphics, the better controls, hit registration, weapon feel/sounds and was the overall more enjoyable game. How does that warrant DICE to create Bad Company 3 in Battlefield 3? How does that warrant that they copy pasta all of their BC2 and MOH features and tweaks and throw them into the new game? 
Not to mention the fact that this is afterall supposed to be a BF2 sequel, so while i'm all for enhancing the experience by using their BC2 advancements and improvements, shouldn't the content be similar to the game BF3 is a sequel to??  shouldn't the vibe of the game, the feel, and the design choices be somehow aligned with what BF2 offered ?
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Got to admit, this is looking a lot like BF: BC 2....

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@Ahmad_Metallic: It should be, but how many people buying BF3 even know what "old" BF even played like? EA/DICE obviously thinks that this is the way to go and maybe they don't think the classic BF style "plays" anymore. Are they right? I don't know.

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@Ahmad_Metallic said:

  

@crazyleaves said:
@JEC03: Well go make your own game then, I don't understand you people and your "demands". If you like BF2 go play it, if you don't like BC2 don't play it. Oh yeah, the game isn't even out yet and everybody's accusing DICE and EA of butchering their children. Oh Internets....
Uh, no, i'm not supposed to make my own game because I don't know how to make a game.  
You don't understand our "demands" ? You're a wonderful customer who demands quality in the products he purchases and doesn't let the developer walk all over him, aren't you? /sarcasm 
 
   
 
It seems like you want DICE to forget about all that money they made on BC1 & BC2, and make a clone of a 6 year old game. Good Luck. 
 
 
 
  
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@Ahmad_Metallic said:

@Sitoxity said:

@fuddles: Unfortunately for the OP, no. There's no pleasing him.

After playing a good few games in the Alpha, I don't see where the complaints are coming from. It plays extremely well and is honestly the most fun in Battlefield I've had for a very long time. It's even better than Project Reality. The Spotting isn't as bad as BC2, the Regen doesn't regenerate all your health (or all the vehicles for that matter) and the guns feel and react a lot nicer. In general, vast improvement.

First of all, it's not about "pleasing me", it's about millions of fans to whom Battlefield games is an acquired taste that is fading away. Go to the Battlelog forums or official EA forums and see the phenomenal outcry
And secondly, are you trolling or what's your deal?
plays extremely well? if someone sees you before you see them, there's a 90% chance you're already on the ground. This is the most fun Battlefield you've played? 3-tap-death?
the spotting allowed me to harvest several kills on a shitty PC with bad performance by lying on a rock behind the Mcoms, tapping Q in the enemy base's direction and shooting underneath triangles. Out of 15 kills i got in my short playtime, 10 of which i didnt not see who im shooting at.
regen does all your health and it does it rapidly. play a little more and watch carefully
the guns dont have nearly as much recoil as they should have, and like i said, they're very OP and cause your victim to drop before they know what him them or where from.

First of all, the "outcry" is a vocal minority. What goes on in the chat of games I play? "This shit is awesome!" Or complete silence, because people are actually playing the damned thing and having a blast.

Secondly, trolling for having an opinion different to yours?

Yes, it's the most fun I've had.

If someone sees you before you see them, then yes, they have the better opportunity to kill them. That makes perfect logical sense. You don't like that? Don't be seen. See them first. Shoot them first. You could complain about this in Quake 3 and it's still a case of be better at the game. You really want to punish people because they saw a guy first? Because otherwise, you're complaining about nothing.

3-tap-death? Fantastic. I'm not here to play Halo, if I wanna soak up bullets I'll play a game where that's the case. I LIKE the fact you're fragile.

You lying behind rocks, shooting at people coming for the objectives is just a tactic that works. So what if you're using the system to your advantage? It's the enemies fault for not taking cover. If you wanna play where you see everyone you kill, go do it, stop playing in a way that you yourself hate. Besides, I've never encountered it as bad as you're claiming, the only times I've had kills when my view of the enemy was obscured, I still saw the reflection of their scope.

Regen health does NOT work as you say. That's just blatantly false. Keep an eye on your 100% health meter. I've seen mine stop at multiple numbers including 17% and 48%. If you're recharging to 100% then you're next to a medkit, which is the entire point of the medic class, btw.

The guns may not have that much recoil, but I never complained about that. I like how they handle, I said that. Yes, I expect people to fall over when I shoot them. Especially in the face. I'll never gripe about the fact that guns are dangerous, it doesn't take much to take someone down. Again, I'm not playing Halo or Gears of War or any other shooter that requires a number of different hits to take someone down. I enjoy those games, yes, but this is Battlefield. I want the experience I'm getting.

Get off your high horse and calling people, like me, who have a different opinion to yours trolling. Clearly the outcry isn't as much as you say it is when a number of people in this thread and by the looks of it, the other threads who are in the Alpha aren't having these problems and are enjoying the game. The complainers of EVERY game are more vocal than the people who enjoy it. Why? Because they have nothing to say, they're busy playing the game and having fun. I'll continue playing and enjoying myself. The game needs some tweaks here and there, but I'm loving the direction they're going.

But, oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to say, trolololololol, I have an opinion.

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Going over the top a bit I think. I'm a long time PC and Battlefield guy. I personally like the 3D tagging function, its just another team work tactic. 
 
If I can't kill a guy, I'm always going to spot them. 
 
Plus i'm pretty sure 3D tagging could be turned off in BC2 server side anyway.
 
BTW I totally agree with the Commo Rose point. I have less than no interest in using voice chat with anyone other that my mates. I think I miss the instant Thank You and Sorry commands the most. I am a polite chap.
Ok.. and the I need a ride/Request vehicle drop ones too.