I agree with you. Phil sounds like a very honest dude, I really enjoyed him in everything I watched him in (last year's GDC video is a great example) and I really miss him on twitter.

We're all just people. Amen to that.

Making something cool should not excuse being an ass to other people.

Way to miss the point!

Yep, great doc. I've been meaning to re-watch with the commentaries and other extra stuff they've added. (Gotta get those weird Steam achievements!)

About your later point, I totally agree. It's absurd to harbor and voice really any opinion of a person you've never met. Saying so and so sucks, or that dude is awesome, is pointless because you just really have no idea what you're talking about. (and that's the general "you" to be clear, not the bluefish "you"). Were in a weird place now where criticism of a creation is synonymous with criticism of the person. Someone doesn't like a game, and their reaction is instantly directed at the artist, "Fuck that guy!". Weird.

Though that being said, your excuse for "rough edges" falls a little flat considering that Team Meat and Jon Blow have never had huge twitter flamewars or talked shit about their fans. We can be sympathetic and understanding of a person's actions, while still holding them accountable for any provocation that may have been done on their part.

Still, psyched for Fez 2 in 2019!

@development said:

What did I miss?

Yeah, we're all human and we all make mistakes. Most people also learn from them though, something Fish did not seem to do.

Fish had it good, when it comes to indie developers. Not everyone gets money from the government to make games with. I don't feel sorry for Fish and I don't like the disingenous image IG:TM makes of him. If that makes me a dick, so be it.

With the exception of the Team Meat's segments, I really didn't like Indie Game The Movie.

The problem with Fish's bits on Indie Game the Movie is that 90% of Phil's screen time is him screaming how shit his ex-partner was which culminates into death threats. They could have spend all that time showing how the crazy intricacies of Fez came to be but instead they focused on showing juicy bits of Fish having a really shitty day. I am not saying this as a criticism against Fish, it's just the filmmakers focused on the wrong thing here and whenever Phil showed up the movie changed gears from being a documentary about indie games to a cheap reality TV show peddling emotional reactions.

All the trouble and woe's that were involved with making Fez aside, the word accountability is key here. I respect the guy for making that game. To be exactly clear, I respect his ability to persevere despite everything and not give up. The final product was a great game that a lot of people enjoyed. It was only two guys after all, dedicating a large chunk of time and energy to bring this vision to the people so they can enjoy. I imagine any lesser person would have given up somewhere along the way, so I respect that part of Phil Fish quite a lot.

Coming back to accountability - a lot of things that he said and did after the game came out I don't necessarily agree with. We all make mistakes and say things we don't mean, but with Fish especially it turned into numerous outburts. Possibly he didn't have that much needed break to center himself and maybe reflect on a few things he might have said and done. I agree with @joshwent that the accountability needs to be there, regardless of how good the final product was. Jonathan Blow is a much bigger recluse which serves him well. He doesn't speak out that often, and that helps him steer clear of potential drama. Fish was almost magnetized in the way he attracted drama and unfortunately not only responded to it but fueled the fires that very often he himself started.

Here's hoping this sabbatical will help him cool off and get some perspective on how to handle the internet without driving himself crazy.

I believe people have a right to say what they feel about him, considering he is a public figure with very little regards on sharing his opinions or how those opinions could be interpreted, within certain boundaries (calling him in real life or threats is never cool). In the documentary it was clear he is a person with a particular ego that clinches in the appreciation of other people and I could see then how the toxic nature of Internet could have mined his enthusiasm for game development.

I give him props for sticking to his vision and making the game despite everything, and that is independent of the quality of the game. If it was a worst game than it was, I would still respect him for that. But that goes to everyone involved in that documentary, and many more that are not shown. At the end of the day, making games is really, really hard, especially when you don't have the support net publishers give you (as if it wasn't obvious, I believe the documentary shows it pretty well), so anyone that can design, built and ship a game deserves to consider it a feat onto itself. It says tons about the character of that person; however, it says nothing about his personality.

Keep in mind the only other "side" of him that you know is his Twitter personality. I don't disagree that he sounds super whiny and bitchy on Twitter, and I think he's completely misguided in thinking "this industry" is full of hateful people (because he, too, is getting his perception from Twitter), but that doesn't make him a bad person.

@development said:

I don't think he does, though. I am not defending the most toxic side of the Internet or the attacks he received constantly for his opinions, but the OP makes it sound like he should be given a pass on his opinions because he made a good game and had some really shitty time while making it.

However, all developers (indie developers specially) have a lot of shitty times while making their games. It is a hard, stressful and life consuming entrepreneurship. That still doesn't mean he can be an ass in twitter/facebook/real life.

I'm late to the party too on this film. Just saw it a couple weeks ago also. Just reminds me how socially awkward a lot of these people are, when really were have this whole E3 style presentation of "VIDEO GAMES!!" Nah, it's guys who stay up past the night and then get together with coworkers at a local mart for more coffee and burritos to work more.

I don't know, I kinda felt the documentary could have done a bit more, like have a psychologist or a moderator to come in and go "maybe you need to talk about this?" Because the ending is kinda forced happiness just didn't work. And really more about handling stress especially releasing unfinished games and updating process.

Giantbomb's building the Bastion was better.

I've got no problem with Phil Fish. Sure, he could be a dick about things on Twitter etc., but I personally do not think he deserved all the shit he got from people. The comments about Japanese games is a prime example as something that was blown so far out of proportions that it just became a bit sad.

Also, GB has a cameo in the movie when one of the Team Meat guys are watching Brad playing Super Meat Boy, so that's pretty cool.

I think many of the things Phil Fish said, I feel in some way and I can understand why he said them. He just had the balls to say what he believed when he felt them, fuck all of you guys who hate him, he never killed anybody, he said some words. The gaming community can sometimes represent the most pathetic parts of the internet and human behaviour. That comment about Japanese games he made I think many people actually feel a bit of in some way, I do to a certain extent.

Turned it off about 30 minutes, boooooooooooring.

Maybe I should give it another go, instead I just found myself watching Dead Silence. (I hate dummies)

He had his reasons for some of his outbursts though, to be fair. He allowed himself to be provoked by the general nastiness of the anonymous internet population, so they baited him and provoked him even more, and so on until it was a giant mess. I don't think that makes him an ass. He just needed to learn to not rise to it or to avoid it all together, and it looks like he's wised up and taken the latter option. The internet is an ass, not Phil Fish.

The antagonizing went both ways. Fish could have taken the high road after events like winning the IGF award. Instead, he took the low road and told people on the internet to suck his dick, which of course only increased the backlash against him. Ask, and ye shall receive.

You lasted longer than I did. What an over-indulgent mess.

@exfate said:

I am not talking about his outbursts when defending himself from the attacks. That sounds like a waste of effort given the state of Internet, but he is free to try it.

I am talking about uncalled outburst like the one about Japanese developers. Sure, one could say he may have a point given enough context, but just dropping them there sounds like trollbait and doesn't paint a good picture of himself.

He lacks tact and an awareness of how he may be quoted when speaking in public, for sure. He was justified in his opinion though, which he was asked for on a panel. However, certain elements in the games media blew it out of all proportion just to stir things up and generate clicks because everyone on the internet loves to hate Phil Fish.

The history of that is everywhere, he's clearly got some destructive habits that are magnified X1000 by his internet celebrity..

And like I said, this is not whether it's justified to give the guy crap. His interviews just strongly reminded me that he was simply a kid doing something crazy for the first time and risking everything. For people to pretend they're THAT much better than him and help wreck his life just seemed incredibly cold.

Whether you agree or not, to pretend that I (as a no-one commenter) would come off ANY better if every word I wrote were publicly brutalized is incredibly narrow minded.

We have all said things that would make us look like incredible assholes were it put under a microscope and GIF'ized.

.

I just think people need to have a little more empathy is all.

We define ourselves by how we perceive people to think of us. And we act toward others as we have been treated. I think this whole thing with Fish is a perfect example of when someone (with potentially poor self-esteem) fills the shoes people make for them.

People can throw words like "accountability" around all day, but human interactions are a lot more complex than that. That's not to say what he says isn't his own doing or that the consequences of those words are his to deal with. But I also think there's certainly a big portion of the internet that dislikes Fish without actually knowing why. And I have seen way too many versions of internet mob mentality to think there isn't a bunch of people who have joined the crusade against Fish just because that's what was popular that week on their social media platform of choice. People, for the most part, are really shitty at being critical of sources.

That whole thing aside, I actually quite enjoyed that documentary.

I like Phil Fish, he is very socially awkward, and people were basically picking on someone who was 'cognitively ill equipped" to deal with the public. If you just look at how he acts in the movie, yet still process to attack him I have no patience for you. There are people you argue with because it is fair, you're on their level - they're on your level, then there are people/situations where you act like an adult by leaving that person alone.

Phil Fish is awesome. He's an eccentric!

@spraynardtatum: So was Caligula.

I felt really bad after watching this, because Fez II was cancelled the day before.

Are you saying that Phil Fish should be assassinated?

I enjoyed the film very much, but I could have done without the close-ups of Tommy Refenes' gross-ass fucking feet.

@spraynardtatum: I'm saying that eccentricity isn't necessarily an endearing trait.

Well then I think Phil Fish is the right brand of eccentric. Personally I find his eccentricities endearing. He's a "fuck the system" kind of guy. People are messy!

Phil Fish is a fruit loop, who is very opinionated, and likes to say really controversial things on Twitter because... Well, I don't know, he likes to give people ammo to use against him?

If I ever wanted to make a game, I would learn from people like Notch, the duders working on Project Zomboid, and Phil Fish, and never ever ever have a Twitter account. There are too many unprovoked attacks against you, and if I got drunk or was upset, I wouldn't even want the temptation of twitter to be there.

It is a shame he's gone though, because it was entertaining to watch the rage against him when he says something on Twitter (or think he's an ignorant asshole when it goes against your own opinion).

It was a sight I was not expecting.

I think we'll get along. Well said.

I don't think he's a "fuck the system" kind of guy as much as he is a guy that just has trouble with being a social person. He's terrible at PR (not a good thing when you're essentially the PR of your company), and has a history of nervous and personality issues that apparently, if I understand right, date back at least to his brief time at Ubisoft, where he worked as a level designer until he had a nervous breakdown and was let go. He is a man that is incapable of handling high-pressure stress with grace, and while that may make him "messy," it doesn't exactly help him or his cause when he would continuously poke at the hornet's nest that is Twitter. By the time he announced he was cancelling Fez II, he should have known that social media interaction has not been good for him or his health. Maybe he's still working on the game in private, maybe not, but the fact remains that Fish has invited a lot of shit upon himself despite having a low tolerance for shit slung at him.

I remember hearing people say that the movie didn't really help his image or something. Watching it, I felt the complete opposite. I always thought the guy was completely fine, I actually very much enjoyed his presence on that one Giant Bomb stream. What I saw in the movie was a guy who had to fight a lot for something he was passionate about, which would make anyone angry/depressed, but I thought his anger wasn't directed at anyone that didn't "deserve" it, which ended up only being his old business partner. He's just more emotional, and more expressive about those emotions than others.

Phil Fish is awesome. He's a nice change of pace from all the typical politically correct PR bullshit most developers say. He also made an incredible game that I need to beat someday. I really hope he comes back and finishes Fez 2.

If anything, I think the skinny dude from Team Meat came off as a bigger jerk.

Phil Fish is awesome. FEZ is awesome. That's all that matters.

I loved the documentary. None of the guys came across very likeable though. Edmund from Team Meat was the only person that I enjoyed seeing on screen. I've never met them, I don't follow them on Twitter, I've never seen any of these people besides this documentary (except Jonathan Blow). I'm sure they're all fine in real life. Just commenting on how I perceived them in this. That's to be expected though, they're developers, not public speakers or sales people. It's easy to mistake being socially awkward with being a dick, so maybe that's the vibe I was getting. Again... nothing against any of these dudes.

I loved it though. I just watched it about a week ago after putting it off for a long time, because I just got around to playing Fez (which is also great).

Edmund McMillen seems like a real nice guy. Inspiring for someone who'd like to do something art-related in the industry.

Team Meat segments, awesome

The rest of the film sucks and I couldn't connect to Phil Fish at all

That was exactly my reaction as well.

Exactly, the film wasn't out to make us like them, it was to communicate what they were doing and what it meant to them. We got a window into the most stressful part of their lives because it was interesting, not because it was telling us to judge them.

They're just people man.

I thought the movie was a little emotionally manipulative, specifically in Phil's story where his ex-partner is portrayed as a terrible villain without being asked by the production team at any point to give his side of the story. That said, I never had any problem with Phil Fish in the movie, he came off as a genuine guy with a lot of anxiety and stress at the time. It kind of freaks me out when I see people who act like he was somehow totally irredeemable in the film, he just sort of seemed like a human being.

But then, that's also how I feel about the public reaction to Phil in general. Just like everyone else on the internet, he said dumb things and had strong opinions. The difference is he actually expressed how he was feeling when the internet hate-brigade was set upon him, and this somehow makes him scum to a large group of people.

To me, a good documentary is one that you could show anyone, they don't necessarily have to have an interest in the documentary subject to begin with. Indie Game: The Movie is just that.

I agree. Watching that gave me a ton of insight, I could tell instantly that I had known a handful of Phil's all my life.

Jon Blow is very pretentious.

Yeah, in the movie, he came off as a depressing curmudgeon who hates his life, and I can understand why some people would find that annoying. But in his interviews from the past year or two he actually seems like a pretty pleasant guy to be around with a good sense of humor that's, dare I say it, kind of infectious. Plus he has a tumblr where he answers questions and gives good advice to people about game development.

Phil Fish is slightly more likable than Jonathan Blow.

I was with you until this:

We can be critical of games but I don't think we have the right to be critical publicly of the people who make them.

It doesn't work like that. If you make something and ask people money for it your personality as well as your art will be scrutinized. People don't want to support people they don't like- that's not surprising, that's why PR people exist- so if they think Phil Fish is an ass they say so and don't support him.

That being said, people take it to far because they believe he is a maniacal racist. Which is his fault.

I don't have any problems with Phil Fish but lets keep our heads straight. People have the right to pay for what they want and say what they want. On the internet sometimes things go to far, but that doesn't change people's right to have opinions. Whether that be about a person or a product.

I'm sorry, I disagree.

Some people are shit to others and need to be treated as such if that's how they treat people, smiley face.

While your points make sense, it is what happened afterwards that made me hate him. He treated others like crap, and got what he deserved to be quite honest. It also took him 1 year to patch his game, and he blamed it on Microsoft's patching fee, when in reality he shouldn't have released a broken game