@koolaid: The point is that competition =/= athleticism. A chef is not an athlete no matter how many cooking competitions he partakes in, and similarly a gymnast or martial artist is an athlete even if he has never entered into a competition in his life.
Icemael's forum posts
@koolaid: Chefs, violinists and surgeons compete all the time. Not in organized tournaments for medals, but for customers, job positions, critical acclaim, fame et cetera. There are tournaments, too: Master Chef, for instance. Are the Master Chef competitors athletes? Would violinists be athletes if they were in a tournament with medals?
The sculpture comment was just making the point that "being in the Olympics" doesn't make something athletic anymore than "being in the Academy Awards" makes something a movie. Sharpshooting is not an athletic activity because, while there is no doubt that it takes a lot of practice and skill and focus etc. to do well in competitions, firing a gun does not involve much physical work.
@koolaid: Are chefs athletes? Are surgeons athletes? Are violinists athletes? After all, they perform mentally exhausting tasks that require skill and a ton of concentration. Why not painters? Why not glassblowers? Why not include silversmiths, knitters and people who are really good at twisting their tongue into funny shapes?
As for sharpshooters: no, they can hardly be called athletes, and the fact that they're in the Olympics doesn't change that. Sculptures would not be movies if they decided to include them in the Academy Awards.
@video_game_king: I wouldn't actually be making judgments though, just pretending. And even if it could be argued that I would, in a sense, be looking at things through a moral lens, you know perfectly well that that's not what I was referring to way back when we started this, just as if I were to say "don't write stupid stuff" you would know perfectly well that I wasn't referring to satiric writing where one only pretends to be an idiot.
@video_game_king: This is an extremely simple and unrealistic example, but let's say a Christian is about to kill me, so I say "Remember how in the Old Testament it says 'Thou shalt not kill'? You'll got to hell if you go through with this!" and then he goes "oh, right" and decides not to kill me. I don't have to subscribe to a system of morality to do that -- I just have be willing and capable of deceiving the guy.
how would you tell somebody not to do an immoral act without any sort of moral perspective whatsoever?
You don't, because there is no such thing as an immoral act: there are only acts that you like and acts that you don't like. I have already given several examples of possible ways to stop someone from doing something you don't want. Here's another, and a clever one too: convince him that what he's doing is immoral. You don't have to subscribe to a moral code to exploit other people's belief in it, a fact understood by many Popes of the past: they cared little for Christian morality, yet were more than happy to use the belief of others to further their wealth and political power.