Pierre42

@pazy:

Yeah it's a big issue and it's scary, but no matter which way the country votes there will be turbulent times afterwards so there is no 'safe' vote as such anymore. It's a matter of voting what's best for Scotland.

Here, a collection of information to address most of the big issues talked about in the debate. ^_^ Information is an important thing and it's very easy to distrust politicians so please have a look and I hope you come to a decision you are comfortable with and vote on the 18th.

@bollard: England don't actually have a choice in the matter. The Pound is Fully-Tradeable International Currency, Alistair Darling (who heads up the televised debates for the "No" camp) has admitted that they can't stop us from using it. I should say this is AFTER they led a large campaign of fear that indicated we wouldn't be able to use it.

It's in England's best interests to have a currency union, however that's 'best interests' as a plan B. The ideal outcome for Westminster (the seat of UK politics) is to keep Scotland in. If Scotland does leave and the UK cuts off the Pound, then they are simultaneously cutting off Scotland from all the debt that it was under as part of the "UK Pound". Scotland has agreed in the event of a Currency Union to pay a fair share of the debt. It's a scenario where everybody 'wins' on a financial level...except where the UK loses control of one of it's provinces.

In the words of Darling himself

@chobobot:

To answer your questions about money, a recent report from the oil industry explains that there's actually trillions worth of oil in West Scotland waters.

The problem? It can't be accessed as long as Trident is there...a costly and obsolete system that only paints a target on Scotland that really England should bare the brunt of. In an independent Scotland, Trident would be removed. Even without that, Westminster has been downplaying the value of North Sea oil reserves ever since they were discovered.

Howdy!

In light of the Scottish Independence mailbag I figured there could be a place to talk about it here!

What are you voting and why?

Remember please keep it civil as this is a highly contentious and momentously important issue.

@lackingsaint:

Sorry...I guess I'd only "explicitly" hear that if I'd let her live..which would be wrong.

Kenny obviously was going to snap, I'm not denying he was mentally unstable. Jane hardly is as well considering the monstrous obsessive things she did to sink her claws into Clem. Also I think "losing a baby in a zombie-infested blizzard" is harder than you'd think. The baby can't exactly go off on it's own, the zombies are slowed by the snow and their senses are all shot to hell. You yourself see this, you can get through the blizzard section just by walking.

In the end the woman who asked you to abandon the person who arguably got you this far and looked after you way back when is asking you to MURDER for her. Jane's a big girl, she can fight her own battles and shouldn't force a little girl into a situation where she has to make that choice.

@zirilius: <3 Repost! But spoilered for decency. Also from the discussion thread.

I've seen so many people do what you did and regret it once they found out THAT revelation about A.J.

Make the Right choice

#teamkenny

@zirilius: Whether Kenny was emotionally unstable isn't the question here. Jane was entitled to fight back to an extent. However she should have stopped iit once she had the upper hand unless of course she actively wanted to kill Kenny all along...which she did. Sure she says she didn't expect him to get that bad but she's just as mad as Kenny is. Firstly she leaves a baby alone in a frozen zombie wasteland. Wouldn't take much for a zombie to hear the cries and smash in the car window. Secondly she created a situation to break an already depressed man by making him believe one of his few reasons for living had been killed. Frankly I believe Jane had hoped the baby would die in the storm anyway as it would be convenient but that's just a hypothesis. Jane is just as bad as Kenny.

As for whether Kenny would stop? Of course he would. You said it yourself "Kenny didn't care about anything else apart from the baby" he would ditch that fight in a second to go find AJ if he believed he was alive. He says as much himself after the fight saying at any point Jane could have told him about AJ and things wouldnt have got that far. You've hated Kenny all the time so I think its blinding you in this case. I didn't hate Jane until she'd done the unforgivable in this episode and shown herself as a manipulative madwoman.

As for looking out for the group? Kenny gives himself up to save Clem when Carver holds her hostage. If he'd left then he'd probably have been able to disappear into the forest safely. He was a main driving force in trying to escape from Carver. He owned up in Clem's place and got beat within an inch of his life losing his eye in the process. After that he helps organise the group to ensure Rebecca's baby is born safely. Fixes a Car to help the group move better and ultimately gives up his own safety so that Clem and AJ can be safe and live in relative comfort.

Jane helps Clem and the others escape the horde but is happy to leave stragglers behind. Actively encourages you to ditch Sarah rather than save your friend. Screws around with Luke which drops their guard leading to every problem in the climax. Actually ditches the group. Shows up later to help the group then admits she's 90% in it for Clem. Encourages Clem to actively abandon team members who are scouting a safe path. Abandoned a baby (who yes still counts as a member of the group) in a dangerous situation with the intention of creating a situation specifically to break up the group.

So don't talk to me about how Kenny never thinks about others because its an argument that doesn't hold water especially in comparison to Jane.

@matatat: oh her language and actions paint her as nonaggressive do they?

Jane draws a knife and slices Kenny's stomach open. Kenny RETREATS OUT THE DOOR Jane pursues. Clem steps between both of them Kenny still backing away and holding his wound. You try and stop Jane and tell her just to run and she replies "Not happening" She then LUNGES for a killing blow but Kenny throws her in defence. She drops the knife and well we know what happens after that.

She was clearly just as aggressive if not worse because she drew a knife.

If she hadn't it might have remained a fist fight and someone would be beaten maybe unconscious but not necessarily dead. Also she could have stopped the fight at any point she had Kenny on the run but continued. Face it she wanted him dead. For her "claim" that she didn't expect Kenny to get that bad is hard to believe when you consider her motives at that time : To portray herself as a victim and manipulate Clem into joining her. Besides if we take her for her word there then in fairness we should trust Kenny's words when you spare him : "It was her or me Clem she was trying to kill me too!"

The point still remains she could have stopped the fight at any time by mentioning AJ and yet she went on because she wanted to fight Kenny and kill him. She knew exactly the response she'd get when she poked the bear. Nothing about her was nonaggressive she just wanted a chance to kill Kenny and still have Clem's respect by it seeming to be in a self defence.

@matatat:

I wonder if the stats are biased by Kenny seeming to be the aggressor when the decision comes down. Like if after the scuffle it had been Jane on top trying to stab Kenny with an option to shoot Jane instead whether it would have been different. It was clear they both wanted each other dead but by gaining the upper hand it makes Kenny look worse as a few folks have said they shot Kenny so he didn't murder someone but it could just as easily been Jane there.

@cthomer5000:

Regarding Season 3 I seriously doubt Clementine will be the protagonist. There's endings where it seems they absolutely don't need to continue her story. For example if she ends up in Wellington it's a safe community that's getting by. It's a 'happy' ending for her. If you go alone through the field of Walkers, survival chances are pretty bleak so it's best to leave it up to the imaginations of the players about whether she makes it or not because writing further in that scenario will probably end up in either her or AJ dead, both of which would be pretty horrific.

I reckon Season 3 will either be somewhere else entirely (best option) with an entirely new cast, possibly occurring simultaneously with the other seasons. Or it'll be about a grown up AJ in the future (not a particularly good option I think but about the only alternative I think).