@c0l0nelp0c0rn1: I agree. I like Halo Reach online is really the only reason I have a gold account and I have a friend who only has a 360 and we play that game together quite a bit. Otherwise I honestly wouldn't be on Xbox Live.

@sammo21 said:

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

You do realize that you're doing the exact same thing, right? Every reason we give you, you refuse to accept it. Why do you insist on trying to "convert" everyone into your way of thinking? You have your free online with your PS3. Good for you. Spend less time here and more time there, FFS.

XBL racist is the excuse ive heard the most. 
 
Personaly, ive heard them quite a few times in games like Halo, but that was about it. Its always one or two in a session every once in a while. Far from happening excessively. The myth of PSN having no shitty users is a myth. Ive heard several people arguing and threatening to kill each other and calling people gay on KZ3, Resistance, and yes even Uncharted 2's online. How can you threaten to kill someone on a game like Uncharted 2? thats just wrong.

@tooPrime: Considering I own all next gen systems including (kind of unfortunately) a 3ds...you'd be mistaken. Your post sounds like your angry about the tribe you left.

@Hellstromsaid:

@sammo21said:

@haggis: If that's your analogy, you really need to work on critical thinking. Car requires gas to run. My car in this analogy would be any of my systems. The gas, aka what I use to run with, is the internet. I pay for my 30Mbps connection to my ISP, aka the gas station.

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

You mean like the Microsoft lackies, who were hailing 360 the greatest system on earth when it didn't even have a library. Those same lackies who defended Microsoft for their incompotence during Microsoft'sRRoD situation? You shouldn't be talking about any fanboy of Nintendo or Xbox 360. Espeacialy when the majority of the retardeness this gen came from all lackies. "

This

XBL racist is the excuse ive heard the most.  Personaly, ive heard them quite a few times in games like Halo, but that was about it. Its always one or two in a session every once in a while. Far from happening excessively. The myth of PSN having no shitty users is a myth. Ive heard several people arguing and threatening to kill each other on KZ3, Resistance, and yes even Uncharted 2's online. How can you threaten to kill someone on a game like Uncharted 2? thats just wrong.

I don't know why you say hiked up. I can get 2 months of Gold for $2 through the dashboard if I want it, and a few weeks ago I could get 3 months and 800 MS points for $6. This may be because my subscription ran out a few weeks ago. I also got 14 months for free with the purchase of my 360 and a game (but that was retailer specific). I've seen plenty of other offers on pre-paid subscription cards. You don't really have to pay full price for Xbox live anymore.

A lot of people in this thread are using horrible consumer logic. You don't pay for something because you assume it subsidizes other things. You pay for something because it's a good value, because businesses are supposed to work hard to earn your money.

Whether it's a good value is up to you; personally I find the whole experience to be more cohesive than on the PS3 and don't find $5 to be too bad of a deal, but you shouldn't tell someone who questions the value of Live to shut up just because you're an horrible consumer who treat businesses like they're charities.

@Hellstrom said:

@sammo21 said:

@haggis: If that's your analogy, you really need to work on critical thinking. Car requires gas to run. My car in this analogy would be any of my systems. The gas, aka what I use to run with, is the internet. I pay for my 30Mbps connection to my ISP, aka the gas station.

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

You mean like the Sony lackies, who were hailing PS3 the greatest system on earth when it didn't even have a library. Those same lackies who defended Sony for their incompotence during Sony's hacking situation? You shouldn't be talking about any fanboy of Nintendo or Xbox 360. Espeacialy when the majority of the retardeness this gen came from Sony lackies. "Killzone 3 looks better than Crysis".

So if people praising the PS3 are "Sony lackies" that makes you a Microsoft lackie too, right? Fair has to be fair and the way you describe those lackies seem to fit 100% with how you act when you talk about Microsoft

I love my PS3 but there is a god damn reason you have to pay for MS's services over PSN's.
 
Because MS network stuff is better and you can bet your ass next gen the PSN will not be free.

I have no problem paying 5 dollars a month for XBL. It's cheaper than WoW and even WoW I think is well worth 15/month.

@Hellstromsaid:

@sammo21said:

@haggis: If that's your analogy, you really need to work on critical thinking. Car requires gas to run. My car in this analogy would be any of my systems. The gas, aka what I use to run with, is the internet. I pay for my 30Mbps connection to my ISP, aka the gas station.

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

You mean like the Microsoft lackies, who were hailing 360 the greatest system on earth when it didn't even have a library. Those same lackies who defended Microsoft for their incompotence during Microsoft'sRRoD situation? You shouldn't be talking about any fanboy of Nintendo or Xbox 360. Espeacialy when the majority of the retardeness this gen came from all lackies. "

This

@Hellstromsaid:

@sammo21said:

@haggis: If that's your analogy, you really need to work on critical thinking. Car requires gas to run. My car in this analogy would be any of my systems. The gas, aka what I use to run with, is the internet. I pay for my 30Mbps connection to my ISP, aka the gas station.

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

You mean like the Microsoft lackies, who were hailing 360 the greatest system on earth when it didn't even have a library. Those same lackies who defended Microsoft for their incompotence during Microsoft'sRRoD situation? You shouldn't be talking about any fanboy of Nintendo or Xbox 360. Espeacialy when the majority of the retardeness this gen came from all lackies. "

This

Trust me, I can never find a reason to justify my Xbox Live purchase. That's why, ever since they bumped the price to $60, I started looking for deals. Luckily Microsoft did 1 month for $1. I purchased 5 months worth from that. After that I'm hitting up Amazon. People are selling a bunch of 12 month cards for $40. 

@haggis said:

@Hellstrom said:

XBL racist is the excuse ive heard the most. Personaly, ive heard them quite a few times in games like Halo, but that was about it. Its always one or two in a session every once in a while. Far from happening excessively. The myth of PSN having no shitty users is a myth. Ive heard several people arguing and threatening to kill each other on KZ3, Resistance, and yes even Uncharted 2's online. How can you threaten to kill someone on a game like Uncharted 2? thats just wrong.

My experience with disruptive users has been about equal on both services. I haven't found Live to be any worse that PSN, but then I never played Halo online. Then again, I never played Resistance or Killzone either on PSN. In general, I find that there weren't many disruptive users when I did play online, and that users on both services tended to shout down the idiots pretty quickly. But that's just my own experience.

So basically you choose to ignore reality and have an opinion based what you choose not to see which everyone else, including the media (HALO KID/CHOCOLATE MILK) recognises as reality. Saying something is your own experience is fine and dandy but arguing against reality because you choose to ignore reality and calling that your own experience as if it's some evidence that your point of view holds any merit really isn't ok. It's not even crazy. It's just plain old blinkered bullshit. Bullshit yourself all you want but don't expect other people to agree with you.

Really?? Really??? Is the PSN even working right now???  Why Pay????  REALLY??????

That's why I stopped using my 360. I just refuse to pay to play games online. I just think it's revolting to have to pay for games I already bought just to access the other half of a disk. If it's an MMO it's fine because you are paying to get new content from the Developers, but this is just a greedy pay gate.

@YoungFrey: That is what I do actually, but that's called going around the system. Movie tickets are expensive but the fact I get in for free doesn't change what the price of movie tickets are. 
 
 
Not paying full price does have an effect.  It doesn't lower the price necessarily.  But it puts pressure on the seller.  Microsoft knows what people are paying for their service.  If they see renewals drop and card sales go up they might lower the base price.  Or they might raise it again based on the assumption that renewl customers are not sensitive to price changes.  Short of getting a job at MS, the most effect tactic is probably to promote any sale of Live Cards you see.   
 
Edit: I really hate the editor (new and old) It makes it impossible for me to know if my formatting is right. 

@sammo21 said:

@haggis: If that's your analogy, you really need to work on critical thinking. Car requires gas to run. My car in this analogy would be any of my systems. The gas, aka what I use to run with, is the internet. I pay for my 30Mbps connection to my ISP, aka the gas station.

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

You mean like the Sony lackies, who were hailing PS3 the greatest system on earth when it didn't even have a library. Those same lackies who defended Sony for their incompotence during Sony's hacking situation? You shouldn't be talking about any fanboy of Nintendo or Xbox 360. Espeacialy when the majority of the retardeness this gen came from Sony lackies.   "Killzone 3 looks better than Crysis". 

@rebgav: You don't pay for windows live....I know this because I am forced to use Windows Live when I play Warhammer 40K Dawn of War 2 online....

@SethPhotopoulos: lol "Sammo21 has a differing opinion from me, hence he is an asshole". Funny logic there.

@ZeForgotten:  No, lackies stick by a corporation no matter what. If Nintendo came out with a system tommorow that just wiped the floor with everything on Microsoft's or Sony's console. My console of choice would be the Nintendo console. I dislike both Microsoft & Sony. Microsoft however currently has the better product. Whether i am a fan of the next Playstation or Xbox depends entirely on Microsoft & Sony.  PS3 has some decent exclusives, thats where it ends though. As far as online play goes? if i don't get it on Steam i will buy the multiplat with online play on 360 for a better experience.

Eh, it costs money, but I'm not poor and it's better than PSN.

@rebgav said:

@c0l0nelp0c0rn1 said:

Why do you think they haven't released Halo 3-Reach on PC yet? Because they haven't figured out how to charge for P2P multiplayer on the PC yet.

Sure they have, It's called Windows Live.

That doesn't charge for online at all though.

@Hellstrom said:

@sammo21 said:

@haggis: If that's your analogy, you really need to work on critical thinking. Car requires gas to run. My car in this analogy would be any of my systems. The gas, aka what I use to run with, is the internet. I pay for my 30Mbps connection to my ISP, aka the gas station.

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

You mean like the Sony lackies, who were hailing PS3 the greatest system on earth when it didn't even have a library. Those same lackies who defended Sony for their incompotence during Sony's hacking situation? You shouldn't be talking about any fanboy of Nintendo or Xbox 360. Espeacialy when the majority of the retardeness this gen came from Sony lackies.   "Killzone 3 looks better than Crysis". 

I agree Sammo is an asshole but to say Sony has worse fans is kind of a dick move.

Keep in mind also that  a PS3 has always cost more than an X-Box with a year (at first 2 or 3 years) of XBL.

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

The thing is, we don't get online play for free on other platforms. We pay our ISPs.

That's not entirely accurate, let's not deceive ourselves. Whether it's Steam or Gamespy or someone else there is a middleman providing you with the functionality which allows you to play online. They just don't charge you for it, largely because most PC games rely on dedicated servers and those servers are paid for, at least in part, by users who choose to provide that convenience for themselves and others. Someone is paying for you to play.

As I've already stated, I would be cool with paying 60 bucks a year if we were getting dedicated (and preferably user-run) servers.

@YoungFrey: That is what I do actually, but that's called going around the system. Movie tickets are expensive but the fact I get in for free doesn't change what the price of movie tickets are.

@Hellstrom: Again I get dedicated servers for free on many games and the service is not noticeably different. I run a 30Mbps connection at my house and my PSN times are nothing what other people complain about (even someone on Giant Bomb said those remarks are a little unfounded once). Again, thats optional...nothing about playing online is optional on 360. Party chat side, the differences are near non existent. Unless you count army ads, car ads, doritos ads, and movie ads (all money to microsoft) as one of your sweet 360 deals.

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

The thing is, we don't get online play for free on other platforms. We pay our ISPs.

That's not entirely accurate, let's not deceive ourselves. Whether it's Steam or Gamespy or someone else there is a middleman providing you with the functionality which allows you to play online. They just don't charge you for it, largely because most PC games rely on dedicated servers and those servers are paid for, at least in part, by users who choose to provide that convenience for themselves and others. Someone is paying for you to play.

As I've already stated, I would be cool with paying 60 bucks a year if we were getting dedicated (and preferably user-run) servers.

@SethPhotopoulos: I only respond with "spite" when I am called a fanboy or its insinuated that I "he sounds like a dude who's poor" or "man that dude sounds like he just wants to argue". I didn't say Microsoft's services are wrong but asking why don't people ask for more to change? Sorry you live for conformity and don't like those who question it. Then again calling me an asshole is a quick out and requires little effort.

@MideonNViscera said:

Keep in mind also that a PS3 has always cost more than an X-Box with a year (at first 2 or 3 years) of XBL.

Yeah, but then for most of this gen the Xbox was kind of incomplete out of the box. The PS3 has always come with an HDD, Wifi (except the launch 20 GB), Rechargeable wireless controllers, free online and Blu-Ray. You don't NEED any of those things (except the HDD), but for most people the PS3 was a better deal on a feature-level.

@haggis: If that's your analogy, you really need to work on critical thinking. Car requires gas to run. My car in this analogy would be any of my systems. The gas, aka what I use to run with, is the internet. I pay for my 30Mbps connection to my ISP, aka the gas station.

Stauch XBL defenders remind me of launch console defenders. No matter what is said or evidence to the contrary its just "well...i just think its better".

@SethPhotopoulos: I only respond with "spite" when I am called a fanboy or its insinuated that I "he sounds like a dude who's poor" or "man that dude sounds like he just wants to argue". I didn't say Microsoft's services are wrong but asking why don't people ask for more to change? Sorry you live for conformity and don't like those who question it. Then again calling me an asshole is a quick out and requires little effort.

@sammo21 said:

@YoungFrey: That is what I do actually, but that's called going around the system. Movie tickets are expensive but the fact I get in for free doesn't change what the price of movie tickets are.

@Hellstrom: Again I get dedicated servers for free on many games and the service is not noticeably different. I run a 30Mbps connection at my house and my PSN times are nothing what other people complain about (even someone on Giant Bomb said those remarks are a little unfounded once). Again, thats optional...nothing about playing online is optional on 360. Party chat side, the differences are near non existent. Unless you count army ads, car ads, doritos ads, and movie ads (all money to microsoft) as one of your sweet 360 deals.

Me and my friend both got DCUO for PS3. Because PS3's chat service is fucking atrocious, we had to switch to our 360 for voice communication. And that isn't an uncommon story. It happened alot from the month that I played. This doesn't bother you?

@MideonNViscera said:

@nintendoeats said:

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

The thing is, we don't get online play for free on other platforms. We pay our ISPs.

That's not entirely accurate, let's not deceive ourselves. Whether it's Steam or Gamespy or someone else there is a middleman providing you with the functionality which allows you to play online. They just don't charge you for it, largely because most PC games rely on dedicated servers and those servers are paid for, at least in part, by users who choose to provide that convenience for themselves and others. Someone is paying for you to play.

As I've already stated, I would be cool with paying 60 bucks a year if we were getting dedicated (and preferably user-run) servers.

Yeah, fuck that. That's what customs are for. I don't wanna boot up Halo and only be able to find servers running Team Snipers or Infection. Dedicated, fine. User-run, no.

A mix of both is best. Still, I play CS a lot and I rarely have difficulty finding populated servers running a nice mix of standard maps.

@MideonNViscera said:

@nintendoeats said:

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

The thing is, we don't get online play for free on other platforms. We pay our ISPs.

That's not entirely accurate, let's not deceive ourselves. Whether it's Steam or Gamespy or someone else there is a middleman providing you with the functionality which allows you to play online. They just don't charge you for it, largely because most PC games rely on dedicated servers and those servers are paid for, at least in part, by users who choose to provide that convenience for themselves and others. Someone is paying for you to play.

As I've already stated, I would be cool with paying 60 bucks a year if we were getting dedicated (and preferably user-run) servers.

Yeah, fuck that. That's what customs are for. I don't wanna boot up Halo and only be able to find servers running Team Snipers or Infection. Dedicated, fine. User-run, no.

A mix of both is best. Still, I play CS a lot and I rarely have difficulty finding populated servers running a nice mix of standard maps.

@GrandHarrier said:

@sammo21 said:

@YoungFrey: That is what I do actually, but that's called going around the system. Movie tickets are expensive but the fact I get in for free doesn't change what the price of movie tickets are.

@Hellstrom: Again I get dedicated servers for free on many games and the service is not noticeably different. I run a 30Mbps connection at my house and my PSN times are nothing what other people complain about (even someone on Giant Bomb said those remarks are a little unfounded once). Again, thats optional...nothing about playing online is optional on 360. Party chat side, the differences are near non existent. Unless you count army ads, car ads, doritos ads, and movie ads (all money to microsoft) as one of your sweet 360 deals.

Me and my friend both got DCUO for PS3. Because PS3's chat service is fucking atrocious, we had to switch to our 360 for voice communication. And that isn't an uncommon story. It happened alot from the month that I played. This doesn't bother you?

You got DCUO on PS3 too?  Yeah it used to suck when the in game chat went down, because we basicaly couldn't communicate and had to use that atrocious in game chat. Had DCUO been on 360 this wouldn't have been an issue. We could have just invited the League into party chat and continue with our raid or w/e we were doing.  I think DCUO would have also worked better on 360 with its inviting everyone in party to league. Sometimes inviting people in your session can be a pain in DCUO on PS3.

@MideonNViscera: So the moral of this story is: Fuck XBL, just go play Counter-Strike.

Way less children too, which is a nice bonus.

heh I can't play CS cause I gave out my Half-Life CD key before Steam existed, then somebody used it before I could make a Steam account.

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

@Hellstrom said:

@GrandHarrier said:

@sammo21 said:

@YoungFrey: That is what I do actually, but that's called going around the system. Movie tickets are expensive but the fact I get in for free doesn't change what the price of movie tickets are.

@Hellstrom: Again I get dedicated servers for free on many games and the service is not noticeably different. I run a 30Mbps connection at my house and my PSN times are nothing what other people complain about (even someone on Giant Bomb said those remarks are a little unfounded once). Again, thats optional...nothing about playing online is optional on 360. Party chat side, the differences are near non existent. Unless you count army ads, car ads, doritos ads, and movie ads (all money to microsoft) as one of your sweet 360 deals.

Me and my friend both got DCUO for PS3. Because PS3's chat service is fucking atrocious, we had to switch to our 360 for voice communication. And that isn't an uncommon story. It happened alot from the month that I played. This doesn't bother you?

You got DCUO on PS3 too?  Yeah it used to suck when the in game chat went down, because we basicaly couldn't communicate and had to use that atrocious in game chat. Had DCUO been on 360 this wouldn't have been an issue. We could have just invited the League into party chat and continue with our raid or w/e we were doing.  I think DCUO would have also worked better on 360 with its inviting everyone in party to league. Sometimes inviting people in your session can be a pain in DCUO on PS3.

I did. Played a Villain Nature Healer. Game was alright. Enjoyed my time with it. But Sony's chat / voice infrastructure made the experience of interacting with people pretty painful. I'm glad for a relatively quick confirmation to what I was talking about; We relied on our 360's for superior party chat for a PS3 "exclusive" (aside from PC). Yes, we could have used Skype on PC, but our 360s were right there.

LOL @ Console players arguing over which service is best. PC gamers have LOTS of services to choose from and lots of destinations to get demos, media, games and information and most of them are free.

Based on my experiences with PSN, you get what you pay for with xbox live.

@sammo21: I've owned an x-box for 4 years, purchased around 50 games, and have never paid for a gold account, so no complaints from me. Its actually nice to know that I'm not paying for features that I don't want from my xbox.