Quick Look: Gateways

@patrickklepek: Why not have a indie only style quick look feature?

@patrickklepek: Its a couple of comments mostly saying they are tired of 2D indie platformers. I get that and I'm pretty sure you guys do too since you and Jeff literally start off the QL by naming some indie game cliches.

If you find it interesting then cover it but expecting people to care thats its a small team is insane. The only thing that matters is whether they like it or not.

To enjoy indie games you have to give the developers a certain handicap. Most indie developers are either learning how to make games or are too undermanned to realize their ambitions. Expecting every indie game to have a completely original presentation is like expecting a model car hobbyist to design an actual car that doesn't use fossil fuel.

The thing is, most people would rather drive a car that doesn't use gas than look at a model car. People aren't wrong in criticizing this game for having a generic or underwhelming presentation. I just wouldn't assume that the developers are lazy folks cashing in on a fad. There are a few fun-looking, inventive mechanics in the game, enough to respect -- as long as you are looking to play a five dollar game.

"UGH, GB NEEDS TO DO MORE QUICKLOOKS THOSE LAZY BASTARDS!!!"

*Patrick gives Quick Look*

"UGH, NOT A QUICK LOOK OF SOME STUPID 2D RETRO PUZZLE PLATFORMER. IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU CANNOT HELP WHAT GAMES COME OUT. ALSO, YOU'RE PLAYING LIKE YOU ARE HUMAN AND MAKE MISTAKES. MOAR CYBORG GB STAFF, PLZ."

@patrickklepek: i honestly fucking hate this quick looks, but i do understand there are people who like these. so why not just get a bunch of them (im sure there is more retro 2d platformers with gimmicks out there), and showcase a bunch of them into one big video

@patrickklepek: I think this feedback is received because many simply feel inundated with this variety of game and by extension, Quick Look. While "legitimate" games like Orcs Must Die 2, Neverdead and Sega Vintage Collection: Golden Axe are often teased but never given actual Quick Looks.

@WSGEXE said:

@patrickklepek: I think this feedback is received because many simply feel inundated with this variety of game and by extension, Quick Look. While "legitimate" games like Orcs Must Die 2, Neverdead and Sega Vintage Collection: Golden Axe are often teased but never given actual Quick Looks.

I agree with this man. I know you guys can't do everything, but I was truly pumped to see Neverdead get ripped apart and instead it was thrown into the corner, sad and forgotten.

@patrickklepek said:

This is always the slightly frustrating part about featuring games like this on Giant Bomb, and the reason I sometimes question whether it's worth it. Gateways isn't trying to be anything particularly revolutionary, it's just a fun, simple game with some familiar but tweaked mechanics made by an incredibly small team. I decided to share Gateways with the audience in case they like those kinds of games and might want something similar for awfully cheap. Instead, it's just a torrent of comments ripping down the game without talking about it within context, and that can be pretty disheartening.

Not trying to be a jerk, and I know plenty of you do enjoy these--only providing some of my own feedback on what's been an observation over a number of different Quick Looks regarding games in a similar category.

I think the problem is just the overabundance of those style of games. Those style of games tend to not make a good video imo. They are fun to watch, but its more fun to just play then watch a singular video of a singular game that is for all intents and purposes a (well made and well realized) rehash of other games.

I think a good idea would be for you to keep your ears open for good indie games then every few months do a round-up video of 5 mini quick looks of indies that caught your attention(maybe a sub feature?). Scoops gives you a scoop of the indie games from that period of time. You get to introduce people to the new games, people that are interested will know to look for the indie games feature, and the haters that feel the need to watch everything just because it says "quick look" will stay away because it doesnt say quick look. I would love to see more feature-based coverage of indies, but i dont think the standard, "sit down and play this for 20 minutes" Quick Look format works for a lot of indie titles for the reasons you mentioned.

@WSGEXE said:

@patrickklepek: I think this feedback is received because many simply feel inundated with this variety of game and by extension, Quick Look. While "legitimate" games like Orcs Must Die 2, Neverdead and Sega Vintage Collection: Golden Axe are often teased but never given actual Quick Looks.

Still waiting for the Neverdead and Orcs Must Die 2 ones ;_;

@wjb said:

"UGH, GB NEEDS TO DO MORE QUICKLOOKS THOSE LAZY BASTARDS!!!"

*Patrick gives Quick Look*

"UGH, NOT A QUICK LOOK OF SOME STUPID 2D RETRO PUZZLE PLATFORMER. IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU CANNOT HELP WHAT GAMES COME OUT. ALSO, YOU'RE PLAYING LIKE YOU ARE HUMAN AND MAKE MISTAKES. MOAR CYBORG GB STAFF, PLZ."

Are you implying, SIR, that some people are impossible to make happy and just enjoy complaining?! I'm not sure I like the direction of this conversation and shall say GOOD DAY, sir...

I SAID GOOD DAY!

Glad to see this on steam, will definitely wait for one of the seasonal sales to get it as it feels like there might be more life to it on the pc with possible updates & mods at least an option over the 360 XBLA version.

@patrickklepek: Maybe you should show actually innovative indie games, of which there are plenty (like Hell Yeah!). Because this only serves to reinforce the perception that most indie games are gimmicky 2d pixel art platformers that have puzzles because they secretly want to be Portal.

$4.99?

Holy shit. That's a bit much, isn't it?

@kwang2000 said:

@patrickklepek: Maybe you should show actually innovative indie games, of which there are plenty (like Hell Yeah!). Because this only serves to reinforce the perception that most indie games are gimmicky 2d pixel art platformers that have puzzles because they secretly want to be Portal.

@Pudge said:

@WSGEXE said:

@patrickklepek: I think this feedback is received because many simply feel inundated with this variety of game and by extension, Quick Look. While "legitimate" games like Orcs Must Die 2, Neverdead and Sega Vintage Collection: Golden Axe are often teased but never given actual Quick Looks.

I agree with this man. I know you guys can't do everything, but I was truly pumped to see Neverdead get ripped apart and instead it was thrown into the corner, sad and forgotten.

i agree with this dudes, also add way of the samurai 4 to the list of QL that are teased

@Phished0ne: There isn't an over-abundance of good metroidvanias. I'm sorry 2D pixel art annoys you so much that you can't see any gameplay accompanying it.

@Skanker said:

@Phished0ne: There isn't an over-abundance of good metroidvanias. I'm sorry 2D pixel art annoys you so much that you can't see any gameplay accompanying it.

It doesn't "annoy" me, its just played out. They even discuss in this very video how its over-done in some ways. Its become the first joke that gets made whenever there is a game of that type. Its not even the art style that bothers me as much as its the simple gameplay formula. I understand why Indies make platformers, it makes sense, its a fairly simple format you can put mechanics on top of to make compelling gameplay. But in the end I just think the coverage of indies would be better in a long form article/ video round-up style. Although that might not be valid with the staffing at GB.

Been playing this game for a few weeks now. Personally I thinks it's great. Sure, I wrote it off as 2D Portal when I first saw it, but an hour in it's more a combination of Metroid and Braid. I cant recommend it enough.

@patrickklepek: I think a lot less people would be shitting on the game if you had waited until you had gotten the time portals to do the QL.

@familyphotoshoot said:

2indie4me

That was about the most indie looking comment I've ever seen.

@Andy_117 said:

@civid said:

Oh great, a somewhat gimmicky, pixelated 2D puzzle/platformer with a Super Metroid map. Seems about as exciting as a new COD game -.-'

And I love how Jeff almost every time he's sitting in on puzzle game-QLs he never has seen before, he knows the solution quicker than Patrick and Brad xD

Eurgh. Agree. So agree. I mean, I love indies, and I will defend them til the day I die, but... honestly. They have the capability to make no-strings-attached, unique, original games with a purpose and a style, and they... make 2D platformers. And then when a genuinely good indie 2D platformer comes around like Closure, or a genuinely good pixel-art game comes around like Jamestown or They Bleed Pixels, and the reputation is sullied by cheap rip-off titles. It disappoints me, because indie dev scene could be so much better - and has the capability to be truly fresh! But all the freshness is leaped on and ripped apart and then games that are actually fresh are late out of the gate. This happened with FEZ - when it was announced, it was really quite unique! Then by the time it was announced enough games had ripped off FEZ that it ended up in a pool with rip-offs of itself. Bleh.

The indie "dev" scene is just as much about making money as it is anything else. These people are poor, they're doing something that has a very low success rate, and they want as many potential buyers as possible. If you were at loss for what you thought was the next big thing, then you would probably go and put the last big thing in your game. In addition to that, many indie game developers love making games; they could care less how it plays, so long as it sells and people like it. Also, making games is incredibly difficult; more difficult than you could ever imagine, no matter how much you think you understand, so no one can expect their greatest fantasies to come to life simply because a publisher isn't involved.

I do agree that this is boring, though. But that doesn't mean there isn't plenty of original stuff pouring out of the indie pipes, because there is. Just like truly indie music, you have to search for it. I'm not talking about 'Slender' or shit like that; I'm talking actual games.

Here's a few amazing ones:

Zombox an open-world zombie game with an adorable art style. Has upgrades, weapon crafting, vehicles, and tons of other stuff, being developed by one man for mobile devices (but it's in Unity so he can easily port to any platform he wants).

Legend of the Knightwasher I'm not as sure what this game's final product will be, but it looks like a mildly linear quest-based game. Its key features are pretty self-evident.

Super-Hexagon I'm assuming you've heard of this. Just throwing it in here to point out that you already know a very 'original' indie game that's fairly new. Terry Cavanaugh isn't alone, though.

Lastly, I'll say: what do you mean when you mash everyone in 'the indie scene' into one person? Everyone who develops a game without a publisher is an indie dev. There's no union, no group, no hive mind; they just do what they themselves want to do. And many times when you're learning to make games, the first thing you try and make is a 2d platformer. And... Fez ripoffs? I've never seen these. I'm assuming they're simply inspired-by, not complete mechanical ripoffs. But then again you didn't list any so I can't know.

@patrickklepek: The game looks pretty neat. While I'm not the first to say this I really appreciate when you guys take a look at these smaller indie type games. I'd probably never find out about otherwise. Unlike the big budget games which are almost impossible to stay ignorant of even if one wanted to.

I like pixel art, but this game looks ugly. It looks like someone drew crude objects with the paintbrush in photoshop and resized them so they were pixelated but forgot to turn of the aliasing so everything turned out blurry.

@patrickklepek: I appreciate Giantbomb doing quick looks of games that people don't often see. I actually saw Gateways and decided not to buy it after watching the trailer. However, after watching the quick look I am ready to buy it again.

People who complain about indie games often being 2D sidescrollers are the same people that would complain about a shooter being too much like a shooter and a fighter being too much like a fighter. They spend their time picking apart what isn't original about something rather than trying to look at what it offers. Every game can't reinvent the genre, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for genres or sequels.

Besides, Giantbomb doing quick looks of lesser known titles is one of the things that makes the site unique. Many of the other big gaming sites are no doubt busy preparing hype videos and articles for the most popular games everyone already knows about. On Giantbomb users can expect to find popular games and lesser known titles just tryin to get through life.

@patrickklepek: I appreciate these quick looks a lot more than most of the "big" titles, so thank you. Keep it up, and for what it is worth this QL has made me interested in the game, so good work. I'm am sure that its exposure here has done way more good than harm, as anyone so vehemently critical of it or "indies" in general weren't going to give it a chance anyway.

This game looks neat.

@mrfluke said:

@kwang2000 said:

@patrickklepek: Maybe you should show actually innovative indie games, of which there are plenty (like Hell Yeah!). Because this only serves to reinforce the perception that most indie games are gimmicky 2d pixel art platformers that have puzzles because they secretly want to be Portal.

@Pudge said:

@WSGEXE said:

@patrickklepek: I think this feedback is received because many simply feel inundated with this variety of game and by extension, Quick Look. While "legitimate" games like Orcs Must Die 2, Neverdead and Sega Vintage Collection: Golden Axe are often teased but never given actual Quick Looks.

I agree with this man. I know you guys can't do everything, but I was truly pumped to see Neverdead get ripped apart and instead it was thrown into the corner, sad and forgotten.

i agree with this dudes, also add way of the samurai 4 to the list of QL that are teased

I assume by the top quoted comment that at least a couple of you missed Brad actually covering Hell Yeah! (over here: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-hell-yeah/17-6610/) yesterday. Orcs Must Die 2 would be nice to see. It wasn't Quick Looked, but Alex did review NeverDead.

Also, @patrickklepek thanks for the QL on this. I hadn't seen it before and I'll probably pick it up pretty soon, just like I bought Hell Yeah! after initially dismissing it.

@patrickklepek said:

This is always the slightly frustrating part about featuring games like this on Giant Bomb, and the reason I sometimes question whether it's worth it. Gateways isn't trying to be anything particularly revolutionary, it's just a fun, simple game with some familiar but tweaked mechanics made by an incredibly small team. I decided to share Gateways with the audience in case they like those kinds of games and might want something similar for awfully cheap. Instead, it's just a torrent of comments ripping down the game without talking about it within context, and that can be pretty disheartening.

Not trying to be a jerk, and I know plenty of you do enjoy these--only providing some of my own feedback on what's been an observation over a number of different Quick Looks regarding games in a similar category.

I always appreciate your unique focus on indie quick looks, even if a particular game doesn't really appeal to me.

Occasionally I wonder if it dons on people how stupid it is to complain about a decision to quick look game X instead of game Y.

Seems cool, also cheap on Steam

I usually don't dig up indie games on the web myself and therefore Giantbomb has become a really nice outlet for me to check out some games I may have not seen otherwise. Do not stop doing Quick looks for smaller indie games, no matter art style. As long as the game concept is interesting it should be allowed a Quick Look. And to this games defence, it looks cool. Yeah, it may be Portal-like but it's very clear it has a bunch of other cool ideas and ways of presenting and using them.

Also...I don't want to be a cynic or have conspiracy theory but it's not at all uncommon that Giantbomb memebers get's heavely influenced by what the crew says and does. I have not seen any clear complains against pixelart in any big fashion on this site before, people actually tend to like the style BUT during the latest couple of week the crew has started to talk about these tropes and critique (as Jeff does in this video) the overuse of pixelart-style in indie titles. After that you started to see people make forum threads and also starting to chew down on these type of games on the site when they get shown in Quick Looks and stuff like that.

Coincidence? I let you be the judge for that but it would not be the first time members start to imitate and clone crew member behaviour or opinions.

Something was off with Patrick in this quicklook, he seemed kinda out of it.

Oh great, a somewhat gimmicky, pixelated 2D puzzle/platformer with a Super Metroid map. Seems about as exciting as a new COD game -.-'

And I love how Jeff almost every time he's sitting in on puzzle game-QLs he never has seen before, he knows the solution quicker than Patrick and Brad xD

@gladspooky said:

$4.99?

Holy shit. That's a bit much, isn't it?

LOL

patrick's voice has gotten deeper methinks

I think I have 2D puzzle/platformer fatigue.

This game looks rad. I think a lot of people missed the fucking point. Yes it's a 2d pixel indie puzzle platformer, but look at how rad the implementation of the portals is. That's the thing about this game, the way the field of view changes as you move in relative to the position of the portals. That's it, they didn't need to reinvent the whole fucking genre, they did one cool thing (that we've seen so far) which is much more than most games do. Furthermore, there are a ton of quick looks posted on this site all the time for game which aren't like this at all, so just go watch those instead of coming around here and shitting all over @patrickklepek for providing you guys with content.

God. I love that side scrolling plat formers are making a comeback.

@Slab64 said:

@gladspooky said:

$4.99?

Holy shit. That's a bit much, isn't it?

LOL

HOLY SHIT FIVE DOLLARS!!!!!!

@patrickklepek Gateways is $1 on Xbox Live indie Games

@Krathoon: They've made a comeback 5 years ago...