We still have to live with the consequences of telling a girlfriend the variety of comments we regret, so despite those comments not necessarily "reflecting" his viewpoint, he still said them.
Street Fighter X Tekken
Game » consists of 19 releases. Released Mar 06, 2012
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The two leaders in the fighting game genre collide in this ultimate tag-team mash-up. Will you cross the line?
Aris "Aris" Bakhtanians Releases Statement on Recent Comments
Wow, I can't believe that was said publicly, I can definitely see how saying that in the heat of the moment is hard to stop, but if you're gonna be on broadcast, you gotta learn how to filter what is being said!
@Stefanten: No, I don't believe it's acceptable personally, but it makes no sense to insult someone because of their: religious affiliation, income status, sexual history, education, mental problems, etc but then draw a stark line on sexual orientation, gender, and/or ethnicity. It implies that those qualities somehow makes a person more important, and thus protected from any kind of put-down. At worst it's patronizing, and in my opinion, morally inconsistent.
Once the insults start flying, it's like opening pandora's box. With all the vulgarity spewing out of peoples mouths, it's weird to me that a line is drawn on those three specific things.
It's all harmless ribbing. As Aris is talking about Miranda's bra size and whatnot, she's laughing and giggling and going along with it. Some circles of friends are like that, and when someone goes outside of that circle they forget to turn that off. If this was actually an issue, then Miranda should have said, "Hey, Aris. Shut the fuck," and, if Aris had any class, he would have. Honestly, everyone involved handled the situation poorly. Aris didn't articulate his feelings on the matter well at all, and Miranda didn't even try to nip it in the bud, instead pretending like everything's cool and then crying about it in secret.
@Hailinel said:
@Buzzkill Then you're both either ignorant or foolish. You hope he wins? Wins what? He's made an ass of himself and put the FGC in a horrible light. He should be ashamed of his behavior.@Sergeant_Stubby: I do too.
I know this is well-tread ground at this point, but I feel like I need to add my $0.02
I wonder if Aris would feel the same way if he were the target?
Not in the sense of "oh you play vidjagames, your a virgin in your moms basement LOL." But in a sexual harassment sense...
I would have love to have seen super yan or anybody else in a match with Aris and pull out the old "Dude, why is your dick so small? No really, WHY is your dick so small? Do you know how tiny your dick is?" for a good ten minuets.
Maybe he would laugh it off, maybe he would be kinder to super yan. But something tells me, he would not just "accept it as a part of the scene..."
my point is that I think it is ok to make crude sexual jokes and comments about women, around women. I also think women should be allowed to make crude sexual jokes and comments about men, around men. I don't think it's ok to be personal in those attacks (which is absolutely the case in this instance.) Nothing should ever be off limits in terms of humor. But attacking someone personally is not about humor, it's about establishing superiority over someone else.
The notion that "fighting games are a place for men to be men" is perfectly reasonable. The notion that its ok for men to personally sexually insult a women because "thats what men do when nobody's looking" however, is disgusting.
Strip clubs are also a place for men to be men, and make crude sexual comments. But try "joking" with one of the dancers that "Jeez, with skills like that I can see why your daddy liked to touch you..." and see how long it takes for you to get thrown out.
just my thoughts
@Barrock said:
@chaosnovaxz said:
In this story - competitive gamers are often stupid and like to talk shit.
The sexism angle is just dumb, though. Saying "rape" is a misogynist term and only applies to women makes me question whether or not anyone knows what "rape" is, but apparently saying that makes me sexist too, if the community is to be believed.
Like I said in the other thread on this story, dumb shit like "rape that bitch!" shouldn't be said at all. However, you'll often hear such phrases in groups containing only guys playing. It's no excuse, and I don't mean this to sound cold, but it's silly when a female gamer hops in that group and all of a sudden claims that such phrases are being directed at her because she's female and all the guys are sexist bastards.
The sexism was hitting on the woman and asking her what her bra size is on camera. That's unacceptable.
"Rape that bitch" is just a fucked up thing to say around anyone, male or female.
If you ever watched the show one of the ladies thighs became a running joke as well. Like wearing her thighs and stuff like that.
This isn't about being "bleeding heart softies." It's about behaving with a greater sense of social decorum than a basement-dwelling fourteen-year-old who has no understanding of what basic politeness entails.If you grew up with fighting games in an arcades, you'll side with the trash talking competitor.
If you grew up with fighting games on consoles, you'll side with the bleeding heart softies.
The English language is full of words that no longer mean what they once did and it's still happening fucking deal with it.
@MrMazz said:
Really this was a matter of time and place and a lack of common sense. Really yelling Rape that Bitch or any thing like that on a CAPCOM SPONSORED STREAM!!! is smart?? Sure maybe at like WNF or some smaller scene horseing around and tomfoolery is ok but on the level they were not so much.
Good job Patrick
Did you even read the two articles? Nobody yelled "rape that bitch" on any stream.
Regretting someone was offended is not the same as actually regretting that you have become a bigoted, disgustingly ignorant person.
As an incident that happened in the community, the community has the right to speak out against this kind of bullshit until it's stamped into the ground.
And if this asshole doesn't have any parents or peers -or sliver of intelligence- to help him see how his "opinion" is objectively wrong, then may he be stamped away as well.
There's a little bit of a reap what you sew lesson to be learned here.
I'm no fan of mob mentality, but the mob has every right to be offended as much as a dude like Aris has to say the things he did. Whether it's Aris or The Dixie Chicks, people need to learn that their words and actions have consequence in a public setting. If you can't deal with the fallout, don't drop the bomb. If you drop the bomb, own the explosion.
Tact and good judgment will get you a lot further in life than believing your opinion and inner logic is the start and stop points for the entire planet.
ive been playing games online for long time,its one thing to talk trash over a mic and its another to degrade somebody in the room and make them feel very uncomfortable that they quit a show about a game the very passionate about,and not one time did Bakhtanians apologize to that girl our express some remorse for what he did to her,thats not how you defend the gameing industry.and in my personal onion i wouldnt want him defining it.
@MrMazz said:
@langdonx: If you had any reading comprehension you would of seen "Rape that bitch" as a example of some of the stuff that is said not that it was said.
Regarding reading comprehension, I'll quote the original article and bold the parts of interest.
Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?
The girl was laughing all the jokes off on the stream, if she had a problem she should have fucking said something instead of crying about it after the fact. These spineless people should really get a backbone and lay the law down during, not after.ive been playing games online for long time,its one thing to talk trash over a mic and its another to degrade somebody in the room and make them feel very uncomfortable that they quit a show about a game the very passionate about,and not one time did Bakhtanians apologize to that girl our express some remorse for what he did to her,thats not how you defend the gameing industry.and in my personal onion i wouldnt want him defining it.
@Lotus said:
@Barrock said:
@Lotus said:
Oh wow, the comments were directed to a character in the game? the x-men girl right? I thought it was aim at a female competitor at the event name Phoenix... wow, now i don´t care anymore, hahaha really this is getting people mad? i´m too old and/or too young for this xD.
That's not the entire brouhaha. It's mostly about the guy repeatedly asking the girl her bra size, making odd comments about her going to the bathroom and such.
By "girl" you mean a fictional character correct?
He means. "Hey Miranda I'm going to sniff you, ask you about your bra size, and make you thighs a running gag on the show."
Miranda a contestant on the show instead of a character in a video game.
At this point, I wish all the normal game press would leave this alone. We have statements from most everyone involved, and they acknowledge their faults, and we should take them at their word. For people not really invested in the scene this whole incident makes us look real childish and dumb, and while that is mostly true, its in all scenes, gaming or otherwise.
As someone who does identify as a fighting game player, I'm pretty ashamed and embarrassed at how this went down. I can't better describe how I feel about this issue, or how I'd like the scene in general to be better than the article on SRK: http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back-to-basics-getting-beyond-the-drama/ This is really sad that this show Cross Assault which should be a big new step for the FGC has instead blown up into an ugly event for the rest of the gaming community to point and shame.
Funny thing people are fucking mind readers when something is upsetting you it's best to you know say something not laugh.
Yeah yeah before you even go there I'm not blaming the victim because in my mind there was no victim. Maybe my standards for harassment is a lot higher then most probably because I've been harassed.
I've been reading this and the other story's comments and honestly it's depressing the way Internet and gaming communities are seemingly evolving in regard to what's part of the culture and what's considered socially acceptable. I'm tired of people speaking for me and others in terms of what we're all okay with. "Oh the scene/XBL/PSN/WoW/whatever is just like that and this is how we all talk." It's one thing to trash talk among friends where there can be a mutual agreement of what is acceptable, but if I wanted to pick up a new multiplayer game I don't have any way of of filtering through that in public games unless I have a group of existing people to play with, which leaves me with no way of expanding my interests and connecting with new people. I could be completely wrong and I'm the only person that feels this way in which case it's pointless, but I wish I knew where to go to say hey I'm not okay with the current status quo.
@SethPhotopoulos said:
@Lotus said:
asking the girl her bra size, making odd comments about her going to the bathroom and such.
By "girl" you mean a fictional character correct?
He means. "Hey Miranda I'm going to sniff you, ask you about your bra size, and make you thighs a running gag on the show."
Miranda a contestant on the show instead of a character in a video game.
Yeah, somebody linked me the video, i miss it at the begining, crazy shit to say in a livestream, i can sorta understand if you are with your bros or whatever. Poor judgement on his part.
@RanmaRanma said:
I love Giantbomb and its community to death but those not in the FGC should not be talking about this story without deep research to be honest because they don't fully comprehend the whole picture nor understand the characteristics of the scene. African Americans often refer to each other as what a white person can not. It's all part of the culture. Terms like rape, hateful and sexist comments have been a part of the scene for a long time. You can argue that it should not be and I would agree but the thing is, it's their scene, they built it. We can't waltz in and say hey guys I want to be part of your scene so you need to change for me just like you wouldn't walk into an Indian reservation and ask them to change their culture for you.
If you don't like the culture, fine. You can campaign against it all you want and I'll support you to some extent but placing the blame on Aris alone is scapegoating. He did some unsightly things, sure but it wasn't far removed from how many in the scene behave. He is a product of his environment. He was also on a reality show and hired to be this over the top character. What did you expect? I don't like what he did, let me make that clear but the method of attack here on Aris is misplaced, it needs to go to the source but that would require people to change the FGC as we know it and the people who helped build the FGC and have been a part of it for years, like Aris, don't want what they love to change. That was his point he was poorly trying to make in his comments prior. Take it as you will but be enlightened about which you speak.
Also remember that the FGC is not trying to be e-sports, they want to remain their own beast. They can be as repulsive to people outside their scene as they like. It's disgusting but it's their call. You can always start your own FGC and make it Hollywood, shiny and clean if that's your thing. For many in the FGC, it's not. Again, I don't support sexism or hate in any manner but I at least understand the mechanics behind this incident and while it is an issue, it is being overblown to some extent.
You said it well, but quite a few people have already said similar things. It's just gonna be a black and white issue for a majority of people, and he will be villified for this for a long time coming by said crowd. I would guess that he probably doesn't give a shit about that, but his history doesn't paint him to be a this horrifying human being to the extent that people are going to treat him as just based on this one single incident. He certainly fucked up bad, and definitely has that closed minded "old man syndrome", but if he can keep it similar to the way he kept it at EVO this year, and not do stuff like walk up to people and smell them, or unbutton Mike Ross's shirt slowly, he's a entertaining character. I can't think of anyone else in the community that would have had as entertaining a conversation with Kayo Police as Aris did. That is why I think he's worth keeping around so long as he respects other people's boundaries.
@Buzzkill said:
If you grew up with fighting games in an arcades, you'll side with the trash talking competitor.
If you grew up with fighting games on consoles, you'll side with the bleeding heart softies.
If you're an adult you know right from wrong. If you dont want this to happen, then cancel all the major tournaments, give back all the money to the sponsors and go back to arcades.
But if you want to grow and become big, you have to change and be an adult. i'm not say be all happy happy joy joy, but be more smarter in what you say on camera. At that level the stakes are higher and players are held to a higher pedestal. if you gonna be a known face in the community then everything you say is gonna be held under a microscope.
@Sooty: Ever done something stupid when you were with friends? You know, get incredibly drunk, smash something to pieces you probably shouldn't have. Went along with them to not spoil the fun. Started smoking because the other kids said it was cool.
You do know what the words "peer pressure" mean, right?
Actually no because I'm not a retard. If I'm not comfortable with something I speak out or take my leave, I certainly do not go along with it, for that reason I never tried a cigarette while I was at school and I have certainly not smashed something up because other people were... Who the fuck does that? I won't have friends around that act like that.@Sooty: Ever done something stupid when you were with friends? You know, get incredibly drunk, smash something to pieces you probably shouldn't have. Went along with them to not spoil the fun. Started smoking because the other kids said it was cool.
You do know what the words "peer pressure" mean, right?
and yes I know what it means.
My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself.
Translation: "I can't be held accountable for the words that come out of my mouth!"
Mild hostility? Fear that the culture of your "scene" is being threatened? Comparing this ordeal to getting into a fight with your girlfriend then feeling deep regret about what was said?
This doesn't feel like a sincere apology at all. I think his only (immature) regret is that the shit he's spouting is drawing negative attention to him and his "culture" and is afraid that Capcom may react to it.
This piece of shit needs to grow up and condemn, not condone, this "mild hostility".
I've seen a lot of nonsense about the fighting game scene, how this kind of thing is socially acceptable there, and how this Aris ogre is just a scapegoat. The problem with that theory is that these insular communities are made up of people like Aris, and if they're not held accountable for what they say when it crosses the line, then it's a license to do it again. Anyone in that community that points to the community as where to lay blame for their actions are simply crucifying the culture they help build and foster. If it's okay there, it's because your unacceptable behavior made it so. I doubt it develops into anything, but this guy should be made an example of.
@ReddenBlack said:
I know this is well-tread ground at this point, but I feel like I need to add my $0.02
I wonder if Aris would feel the same way if he were the target?
Not in the sense of "oh you play vidjagames, your a virgin in your moms basement LOL." But in a sexual harassment sense...
I would have love to have seen super yan or anybody else in a match with Aris and pull out the old "Dude, why is your dick so small? No really, WHY is your dick so small? Do you know how tiny your dick is?" for a good ten minuets.
Maybe he would laugh it off, maybe he would be kinder to super yan. But something tells me, he would not just "accept it as a part of the scene..."
my point is that I think it is ok to make crude sexual jokes and comments about women, around women. I also think women should be allowed to make crude sexual jokes and comments about men, around men. I don't think it's ok to be personal in those attacks (which is absolutely the case in this instance.) Nothing should ever be off limits in terms of humor. But attacking someone personally is not about humor, it's about establishing superiority over someone else.
The notion that "fighting games are a place for men to be men" is perfectly reasonable. The notion that its ok for men to personally sexually insult a women because "thats what men do when nobody's looking" however, is disgusting.
Strip clubs are also a place for men to be men, and make crude sexual comments. But try "joking" with one of the dancers that "Jeez, with skills like that I can see why your daddy liked to touch you..." and see how long it takes for you to get thrown out.
just my thoughts
He self deprecates himself in that way all the time though. This is the one points that people don't get due to the lack of context. He treats everyone (including himself) equally. Does it make what he did or said in this scenario okay? Nope. But this one scenario doesn't turn him into a woman raping, homophobic, and racist viking man like some people are making him out to be.
I think there are two separate arguments going on here and people are mixing the two. (They certainly have overlap but they are different arguments.)
The first is what Rae was saying that he feels like the FGC is ostracizing newcomers because of the insular attitude and immature behavior that is allowed (but not necessarily practiced) by most of the community. Rae used an example of the offensive language and behavior (which happened to be sexual harassment) and Aris decided to defend the community by stating that the behavior makes the community the community. "Rape that bitch!" wasn't an example of how the FGC is a sexist community but rather an example of how offensive behavior is acceptable within the FGC which can be harmful if the FGC wanted to expand and become more legitimate. Sexism wasn't the main issue here but rather an aspect of the behavior that Rae thinks causes newcomers to become disinterested in the FGC and fighting games as a whole.
The second is sexism against the female contestants on the show. Mainly Miranda. Aris had been making remarks towards them and has shown odd behavior like sniffing Miranda or turning her thighs into a running gag among other things. Aris has a history of this sort of thing. Miranda did tell Aris to knock it off a few times and just felt defeated after the abuse didn't stop. The argument here is that Aris doesn't do much to support his claim that the offensive behavior should be acceptable and integral to the FGC when it can be harmful to those already immersed in it.
You're probably the first person I fully agree with.I know this is well-tread ground at this point, but I feel like I need to add my $0.02
I wonder if Aris would feel the same way if he were the target?
Not in the sense of "oh you play vidjagames, your a virgin in your moms basement LOL." But in a sexual harassment sense...
I would have love to have seen super yan or anybody else in a match with Aris and pull out the old "Dude, why is your dick so small? No really, WHY is your dick so small? Do you know how tiny your dick is?" for a good ten minuets.
Maybe he would laugh it off, maybe he would be kinder to super yan. But something tells me, he would not just "accept it as a part of the scene..."
my point is that I think it is ok to make crude sexual jokes and comments about women, around women. I also think women should be allowed to make crude sexual jokes and comments about men, around men. I don't think it's ok to be personal in those attacks (which is absolutely the case in this instance.) Nothing should ever be off limits in terms of humor. But attacking someone personally is not about humor, it's about establishing superiority over someone else.
The notion that "fighting games are a place for men to be men" is perfectly reasonable. The notion that its ok for men to personally sexually insult a women because "thats what men do when nobody's looking" however, is disgusting.
Strip clubs are also a place for men to be men, and make crude sexual comments. But try "joking" with one of the dancers that "Jeez, with skills like that I can see why your daddy liked to touch you..." and see how long it takes for you to get thrown out.
just my thoughts
They shouldn't be forced to tone down the sexual humor just because a girl is involved in the game, but a distinction needs to be drawn between playful joking and actual harassment.
@darkdragonmage99 said:
@SethPhotopoulos: Yeah and it was all in jest and she even knew this or at least by the laughter would suggest there was no reason to assume it was making her uncomfortable if she would have said something he probably would have stopped. Funny thing people are fucking mind readers when something is upsetting you it's best to you know say something not laugh. Yeah yeah before you even go there I'm not blaming the victim because in my mind there was no victim. Maybe my standards for harassment is a lot higher then most probably because I've been harassed.
I've watched some of the Tekken training stream and when Aris talks about Miranda she did say shut up a few times. Though only Aris was wearing a mic for those training streams so I could have misheard. I just heard a females voice in the background saying out loud for Aris to shut up and he shrugged it off and kept going.
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