A new engine, but the same old sword cutting through the air like a plastic knife through water triggering the "clank" sound somewhere mid-swing. Hopefully triggering near where you would have actually hit something if not for such pathetic clipping. If they have shields made from rubbermaid again, I am out. I am rubber you are glue, if you swing your sword now it will bounce back at you.

First person combat is hard to get right, and they would rather put resources into the world and the quests. People dont come to these games for combat

I never enjoyed much of the combat in the Elder Scrolls games, especially the swordplay. I find it dull and repetitive, and the addition of random slow motion finishes forces the combat to drag on longer than necessary. Maneuverability is a problem, in these games, too.

I'll play Skyrim for the story and setting, not the sword swinging.

That being said, I do appreciate the guilty pleasure of stabbing dudes with daggers.

The combat looks just as boring as the first game. I would have appreciated some kind of active click like in the witcher so i feel more engaged. I might just forgo weapons and go all magic. At least there's a light show.

Elder Scrolls games since Morrowind have put a real emphasis on ranged attacks and spell casting to be effective in combat. Swords, daggers and the like should be used primarily as last resorts. That said, looks like they've really improved those particular aspects of combat and predictably left the hacking/slashing in the dark ages, where it belongs.

Just pick magic or ranged.

It's a modified version of Gamebryo, definitely not a completely new engine despite claims to the contrary.

Although personally I never minded combat and that my only gripe was when enemies became annoyingly too long to kill (happens too often in Oblivion past the default difficulty and even if not, after you are at a high level), I completely understand people's dislikes for seeing a lack of animated reactions to a good hit with a blade or hammer up close.

Unfortunately if all you wanted is to smash dudes and not really focus on the more grand-scale aspects of an Elder Scrolls game, you are looking at the wrong franchise at this point in time.

will the faces be just as creepy as they balways been?

@Master_Funk said:

First person combat is hard to get right, and they would rather put resources into the world and the quests. People dont come to these games for combat

Speak for yourself. Combat is the way we progress through story and the tool which is required to get from A to B in a hostile world. You'll be fighting all the time, so a good combat system is key in my opinion.

I really hope they've realised the combat isn't their strong point and have reduced the amount of battles you go through. The E3 gameplay trailer doesn't fill me with hope but I know it could be worse. It's a shame they didn't come up with some kind of VATS.

It's not a new engine, that's why. It's a "heavily modified" version of Gamebryo. They may even end up calling it something else, but it's totally the same engine. Like I've said before, they needed to start over.

@FunExplosions said:

It's not a new engine, that's why. It's a "heavily modified" version of Gamebryo. They may even end up calling it something else, but it's totally the same engine. Like I've said before, they needed to start over.

I think they're calling it the Creation engine or something. Also I've been playing Oblivion in anticipation of Skyrim and that combat is sooooooo bad and all the videos of Skyrim make it look exactly the same

@GrumpyOldMan said:

A new engine, but the same old sword cutting through the air like a plastic knife through water triggering the "clank" sound somewhere mid-swing.

Dice rolls. They would need one hell of an animation system to accurately reflect the numbers game going on behind the scenes. How do you express, through animation, that your swing missed the target because your one-handed weapon skill level is too low? How do you animate hitting for zero points due to the enemy's armor rating? I suspect that if enemies had numbers floating off them with every hit then people would just accept that it's RPG combat and the animation wouldn't be so bothersome.

It's one of the major turn-offs of the game for me (In Oblivion there was more of an excuse). The combat just has no connection at all. The monsters don't flinch whatsoever after hitting them with a 150lb axe or hammer. You get smacked by a giant with a huge club and you don't move at all. After playing some Dead Island and getting hit by one of the brutes you go flying onto your ass and when you hit zombies they really move and stagger as you'd expect.

In that game-play demo you see a giant get picked up by a dragon and when it lets go of him and drops him 200ft the giant is in its dead 'floppy' model the split second it is let go from the claws, so it just falls and looks rubbish, it would be way better if they at least scripted it so it's flailing around as it plummets to the ground.

They would make a way better game in my opinion if they added a few more scripted events and animations. They really need to modernise the mêlée combat for the next game (hopefully built for the next consoles) or I'm going to be very disinterested in it.

@CornishRocker said:

I never enjoyed much of the combat in the Elder Scrolls games, especially the swordplay. I find it dull and repetitive, and the addition of random slow motion finishes forces the combat to drag on longer than necessary. Maneuverability is a problem, in these games, too.

I'll play Skyrim for the story and setting, not the sword swinging.

That being said, I do appreciate the guilty pleasure of stabbing dudes with daggers.

Hopefully it isn't overused in the game. It would feel ridiculous and very time-wasting if these finishing moves were triggered on a level 1 mud crab when you're level 20 for instance. And it would be very annoying and not helpful if finishing moves were triggered when there were still other enemies alive. But if it is only used when it's the least intrusive and even then only once in a while, it won't matter much.

RPG is RPG.

With that said, investing 20 hours into Dead Island, then watching that Skyrim video made Skyrim look slightly less appealing. Visceral first-person RPG melee combat can be done.

Developers fail to realize that first person dice rolls just don't work anymore.

@project343: This.

As flawed as Dead Island is, it really has dullened my opinion of Skyrim combat unfortunately :(

Who cares? Can't wait for Skyrim.

If you play ES games for combat, you are clearly missing the point to the games.

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

Who cares? Can't wait for Skyrim.

@FauxNinja:

A scotsman that goes by FauxNinja? Guess not.

@bioblood22: I play ES games for the experience, having a blade that swings through flesh as easily as air with no enemy response is somewhat of an immersion breaker.

What do you play ES games for? The paper thin plot or the badly thought out leveling systems?

@FauxNinja:

I play it to see the world I've come to love, to see how time has changed it, to see Bethesdas next step in upgrading it. I play it to once again become a Nord walking in the rain or to be a Bosmer running through the woods. I play it cause I love it. Not because I need a perfect game.

When you swing a sword in a clean arc through a person, that person is chopped in half. . .

Except in Eldar Scrolls games where the melee is SHIT.

Why can't the sword just imbed itself in the enemy or bounce off?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Why!!??

I am going to boycott this game. I gave them the benefit of the doubt with Oblivion, but since they haven't fixed it with this game, FUCK THEM!!!

@bioblood22:

I see, you're probably best off with a good book then, the rest of us came here to play a game.

The animations are still light years more advanced and believable than those found in Oblivion; that's enough to satisfy me.

Bethesda has always been weak in the animation department.  

@bioblood22: I play ES games for the experience, having a blade that swings through flesh as easily as air with no enemy response is somewhat of an immersion breaker.

Yes! This!

Aye, I'm totally looking forward to Skyrim, just wish they had spent a little longer getting some impact animation in.

@FauxNinja:

You can dislike it all you like, but that point of combat is VASTLY out weighed by all other aspect of the game. And there are worse things than reading a book. Don't like the way swords and axes work in the game, play as a magic user or a stealth character. Yea the sword combat could be better, but to say the game is hurt to some great extent by it is ignorant.

@bioblood22: Where did I say that? I said that after playing Dead Island, my opinion of the combat in Skyrim has been dullened.

Project much? Btw, nothing wrong with reading at all :) enjoying a good book myself atm, but I come to games to INTERACT, and combat is a form of INTERACTION.

First of all it's not a new engine. Second of all, the engine won't help incompetent programmers and designers.

@FauxNinja:

So you saw my first post on this topic and thought I meant you? I didn't. As for the point of my last comment before this one. I meant that in general to the overall comments on people complaining about the combat. I wasn't directing it squarely at you. For not clarifying my point, I apologize.

@bioblood22: by the volume of complaints about the combat, one would wager that combat IS important to some.. especially since it amounts to 90% of the playtime of the game.. Just sayin'...

@FauxNinja:

The percentage of the combat relative to the game depends on how one plays it. I'll spend far more time looking at things and reading in game books. I may be in the minority in that, I don't know.

People play Elder Scrolls for the visceral combat and amazing animations? Who are they? I'd like to meet these alien creatures.

Look, it's an open world game. Open world games have jank. Janky sword swings are a spectacular trade off for how free form and open a TES game is. We accept gameplay hindering animations and dull combat in Rockstar games, and can't wait to fondle the studio's balls after swallowing. So why the hell is TES any different?

No-one is saying that they aren't gonna get it or that they don't understand jank.. We just wish that they had evolved the combat even a little from oblivion in terms of impact.

@KingWilly said:

People play Elder Scrolls for the visceral combat and amazing animations? Who are they? I'd like to meet these alien creatures.

No one does because the game doesn't have it. I would like it if they did, though.

@Master_Funk said:

First person combat is hard to get right, and they would rather put resources into the world and the quests. People dont come to these games for combat

So what you're saying is that even if they completely omit the combat system people will play it? Yup, 300+ hours of walking. Where do I sigh up?

Look, I loved morrowind and Oblivion but the combat system they had was crap and it's needs a major overhual. From the vids they shown it doesn't seem like they made major strides at improving.

What does it matter if the weapon don't react to hitting a body just right. That's a really nit picky thing to complain about. What's next? "This is has dullened me because I cannot see toe nails on my character. It breaks my immersion to not see any kind of toe nails or finger nails. I play this game for immersion and no toe nails means I'm not going to get this game anymore now..."

Give me a freaking break. Skyrim is going to be amazing and they are broadening their horizons by letting you work in the game and dual wield swords/magic. if seeing a blade move not quite right breaks your immersion, then you probably had ADD anyways and need to stick to games like CoD.

@Jams said:

What does it matter if the weapon don't react to hitting a body just right. That's a really nit picky thing to complain about. What's next? "This is has dullened me because I cannot see toe nails on my character. It breaks my immersion to not see any kind of toe nails or finger nails. I play this game for immersion and no toe nails means I'm not going to get this game anymore now..."

Give me a freaking break. Skyrim is going to be amazing and they are broadening their horizons by letting you work in the game and dual wield swords/magic. if seeing a blade move not quite right breaks your immersion, then you probably had ADD anyways and need to stick to games like CoD.

What does it matter if the weapon don't react to hitting a body just right.

don't react to hitting a body just right.

How about not at all. Also, grow up and accept that other people might have criticism on games that you are a fan of.

I keep saying this, a TES version of VATS is the answer. Think about it. A time manipulating spell that allows you to plan out your moves and then watch them unfold. It would get rid of the tedium of combat for those of us that don't want to bother, and for those who do, it'd be completely optional, just like in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

Never really had a problem with that fact, it looks decent enough and I like the added 'finishers'.

@FauxNinja said:

@Jams said:

What does it matter if the weapon don't react to hitting a body just right. That's a really nit picky thing to complain about. What's next? "This is has dullened me because I cannot see toe nails on my character. It breaks my immersion to not see any kind of toe nails or finger nails. I play this game for immersion and no toe nails means I'm not going to get this game anymore now..."

Give me a freaking break. Skyrim is going to be amazing and they are broadening their horizons by letting you work in the game and dual wield swords/magic. if seeing a blade move not quite right breaks your immersion, then you probably had ADD anyways and need to stick to games like CoD.

What does it matter if the weapon don't react to hitting a body just right.

don't react to hitting a body just right.

How about not at all. Also, grow up and accept that other people might have criticism on games that you are a fan of.

Don't tell me to grow up. I actually don't give more than a half a fuck about what you or anyone's complaining about. Try taking your own advice.

accept that other people might have criticism on games that you are a fan of.

You're telling ME this when at the same time, you're doing it yourself. Why don't you grow up and accept that I don't like the fact that people are complaining about something so trivial as how the sword swing animations look? Maybe if you were grown up you could see this, but obviously you're not. I've had debates with too many brick walls to keep doing it. I've said my peace, so I'm not going to respond to any more insults.

@Pezen: It's ok if enemies die in one or two slashes, but when you have to slash at an enemy for just shy of three (hyperbole) hours before he dies, some impact animations do wonders :)

Looks just fine to me, but then again i liked the combat in Oblivion.

Oh, and GiantBomb totally edited their text-window.

For all the likes and dislikes of the game we can all agree Skyrim will be amazing. Flaws and dislikes will always be in games, to which degree depends on the person, no game will please EVERYONE. Overall Skyrim should be mind melting.

@Jams said:

@FauxNinja said:

@Jams said:

What does it matter if the weapon don't react to hitting a body just right. That's a really nit picky thing to complain about. What's next? "This is has dullened me because I cannot see toe nails on my character. It breaks my immersion to not see any kind of toe nails or finger nails. I play this game for immersion and no toe nails means I'm not going to get this game anymore now..."

Give me a freaking break. Skyrim is going to be amazing and they are broadening their horizons by letting you work in the game and dual wield swords/magic. if seeing a blade move not quite right breaks your immersion, then you probably had ADD anyways and need to stick to games like CoD.

What does it matter if the weapon don't react to hitting a body just right.

don't react to hitting a body just right.

How about not at all. Also, grow up and accept that other people might have criticism on games that you are a fan of.

Don't tell me to grow up. I actually don't give more than a half a fuck about what you or anyone's complaining about. Try taking your own advice.

accept that other people might have criticism on games that you are a fan of.

You're telling ME this when at the same time, you're doing it yourself. Why don't you grow up and accept that I don't like the fact that people are complaining about something so trivial as how the sword swing animations look? Maybe if you were grown up you could see this, but obviously you're not. I've had debates with too many brick walls to keep doing it. I've said my peace, so I'm not going to respond to any more insults.

Wow, mature response. (That was sarcasm.)

Regardless of if you "give a fuck", I had a criticism that I wanted to talk about in a thread about the subject in a public forum, why do you feel the need to come in here and tell me it doesn't matter and that you don't care. If you don't care, why are you in this thread?

Cheers.