So I saw Super Mario Galaxy in 720p and I have to say that it looks pretty good. Which got me thinking, why the fuck didn't Nintendo have the Wii in HD from the beginning? I look at games on the 360, PS3, and PC and some look stunning, but whenever I look at the Wii version, well, it looks pretty much like garbage compared to the HD versions. So I'll just say that this little rant here isn't so much on the fact that Super Mario Galaxy looks nice in HD, but the fact that it needs to be ran on an emulator in order for it to do so. Nintendo is raking in money with the Wii and it's kind've sickening to me. I don't remember the last time they made a quality game for the system and yet the casual market is making Nintendo one of the largest gaming superpowers. I know Nintendo is a powerful company, and have enjoyed many of their games on the N64 and Gamecube, but the fact that Wii Fit, Wii Play, and Mario Kart Wii are some of the most financially successful games in the market to date, just makes my skin crawl. Nintendo has just really pissed me off for completely abandoning their original fans and saying "Well, here! Have some Wii Fit!" I once thought that the Wii could keep up with the other consoles. Unfortunately, I am sorely mistaken.

Cool story, bro.

Yawn, more of this? Ok.

Visuals aren't everything, the Wii is an amazing console. Once developers actually look into taking advantage of everything the console is capable of, control wise, we'll have ourselves with innovative fresh and new games. Major Developers just need to take the console seriously and get past this whole "new generation of gamers", "changing the way games are viewed", "games can be an athletic activity" philosophy.

They have done that for the past 5-10 months now and have announced dozens of potentially amazing games.

I'd put a post here explaining that they're abandoning the "hardcore" gamer because the N64 and Gamecube were flops commercially with no third-party support, and even then plenty of games are being made for your stupid ass but let's face it, you won't listen and there will be ten other threads about this by the end of the day, why bother?

Of the comments that I have been reading I have been seeing things like "there are plenty of hardcore games on the Wii" and "The are releasing dozens of potentially amazing games" Name some. I would like to hear them. To FlipperDesert: 1. I wouldn't call the N64 a flop 2. What I'm saying is that I feel Nintendo should mix their set of casual games that are "fun for the whole family" with some that are more for the hardcore crowd and maybe with some higher quality. So far Nintendo's answer to this is re-releasing games like Mario Tennis and Pikmen. The fact is, I just don't feel that the Wii is capable of making games as high calibur as games made on the 360, PS3 and PC. The motion controls aren't that great and aren't as responsive as they should be. Sure Wii Motion Plus may fix this issue somewhat but I don't really want to pay for a peripheral that should have already been included in the controller when it first came out. More time should be spent to make the games on the Wii of higher quality and not make the motion sensing capability the gimmick which it currently is. And to the rest of you, yes I know that visuals aren't the only thing that make games great, but what bothers me is the fact that Nintendo is lagging behind so much that the games they make look like last-gen graphics. Graphics may not make a game, but the do hold importance when determining the quality of a game.

" I'd put a post here explaining that they're abandoning the "hardcore" gamer because the N64 and Gamecube were flops commercially with no third-party support, and even then plenty of games are being made for your stupid ass but let's face it, you won't listen and there will be ten other threads about this by the end of the day, why bother? "

Okay, we've already got Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and the Smash Bros. franchises represented on the Wii... plus two more traditional Mario games, Metroid: Other M, and at least another Zelda game coming up this year and next.  I think Nintendo has done quite a bit for Nintendo fans for the most part.  Now if only they can tap some of their other franchises like Star Fox and F-Zero... that's becoming a problem.

" Okay, we've already got Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and the Smash Bros. franchises represented on the Wii... plus two more traditional Mario games, Metroid: Other M, and at least another Zelda game coming up this year and next.  I think Nintendo has done quite a bit for Nintendo fans for the most part.  Now if only they can tap some of their other franchises like Star Fox and F-Zero... that's becoming a problem. "

" @FlipperDesert said:

" I'd put a post here explaining that they're abandoning the "hardcore" gamer because the N64 and Gamecube were flops commercially with no third-party support, and even then plenty of games are being made for your stupid ass but let's face it, you won't listen and there will be ten other threads about this by the end of the day, why bother? "

The N64 was far from a flop :/ "

@Fullmetal: I don't know how recently you made attempts to get up to speed with the Wii. If you don't know of the games, it's cos you're not looking, and if you're not looking, then you can't judge what is or isn't coming... Honestly, almost no genre remains unrepresented.

You want fighting? Capcom has you covered with Tatsunoko Vs Capcom's heavily enhanced Western version. JRPG? Well hello Tales of Graces. More traditional JRPG? How about Arc Rise Fantasia, Dragon Quest X or even Monado? Survival Horror? Hi new-age Silent Hill and Cursed Mountain. Platformer? I don't know if you heard but the sequel to one of the highest rated games this gen is coming, and its 2.5D bro will get here first. Online RPG? Monster Hunter 3 says hi. FPS? Red Steel 2 looks pretty promising, and isn't the proclaimed generic-a-thon The Conduit is despised for. Combat Flight? Sky Crawlers from the Ace Combat team anyone? Point & Click adventure? How about several Telltale franchises, and perhaps Another Code R? Action adventure? Check out Square's The Crystal Bearers, Final Fantasy without the menu-driven grind and extra super-powered action. A few examples off the top of my head is all this is, and all of it is looking promising and/or is from renowned development teams that give you games you love on the other systems, so if you like those, look into these, even though they're on the Wii. Granted, Western developers still mostly shun the Wii, but they also slowly but surely change position. I've already mentioned examples.

And so on, and so forth, honestly, I barely scratched the surface here. It all has been said dozens of times before, whether in threads dedicated to that or as responses to flamebait comments elsewhere, yet here we are, asking Wii owners to repeat themselves once more, perhaps only to dismiss each and every title with a few simple words like "meh" "no" "so where are the good games" "I prefer MW2" or whatever...

Still, aren't you all "hardcore gamers"? Why do you need to incite list wars in yet another identi-thread just to make uh, whatever point? Just go to any website with game lists, look through the developers that you think make "hardcore" games and check out their Wii offerings. Look @ the popular Wii videos on GameTrailers or something, hell just look at the Wii threads created on here, whatever except asking people to repeat the same lists over and over, only for a third person to come along and bash them for doing just that as it usually happens. And if you pull the card of "don't own/play a Wii, so don't care to look" then don't pretend to know the situation enough to judge it like this...

As for Nintendo themselves, no, they're not abandoning anything because what they've been doing so far has brought them money, even if it's less money than their new assets, which mind you don't always work as Wii Music showed, just like traditional games. You still get your Zeldas and Marios and Fire Emblems and Pikmins and Metroids. God knows what else they have in store, I don't know about you, but I didn't see Retro Studios or Monolith Soft credited for Wii Fit so they're certainly working on something else. Then they take extra steps to fund or publish known "hardcore" franchises like Treasure's Sin & Punishment 2 or even brand-new IPs like Endless Ocean, Cosmic Walker, and Takt of Magic. They have even secured "megaton" exclusives like Monster Hunter 3(just watch how they're promoting this baby in Japan, with the black WIi bundles and other such offers) and Dragon Quest X. Yeah, totally, Wii Fit is all Nintendo ever cares about nowadays. Totally.

I've not even touched on the DS side at all since I'm not fit to post about it (actually, I should have also mentioned more of WiiWare considering the excellent titles that have been and keep being published through it), perhaps oldschool will grace this thread, or save his time, like I should.

@Hitchenson: No problem, enjoy that new Wii of yours :-)

Edit: And what did all that have to do with Wii HD?! Gawd... If SD sickens you then you'll never care for games on it, end of. Personally I still play SNES games and still want to make time to enjoy still-gorgeous PS2 titles I missed, it's not like game design has radically evolved since, not to mention that HD clarity isn't the reason they have evolved, Mario Galaxy is no less modern platformer than...Whatever people loved on the PS360 (Banjo?). Hell, DS games may look like PlayStation titles but their design is certainly as matured as anything on the home consoles...

And by the way, since Mario HD sparked this post, it looks better on the Wii than it does on that HD video since it has glaring glitches that affect the overall look, as do many other games one may have wanted to play on the emulator, like Tatsunoko Vs Capcom. Getting rid of the jaggies doesn't beat actually having the artistic result intended, as jaggies aren't a major problem if you play on SDTV or your HDTV upscales well.

Edit 2: Ok completely ignored my post after you asked for a list... Fine... As for multiplatform games, eh, if something's not designed for Wii, it most likely won't work so well, not so much in controls which can be adapted just fine for most types of games, contrary to your belief, but more for the visual side of things. Hence why most of the titles on my list up there (and the extensive linked list) are exclusives to look forward to, or games known to have excellent use of the Wii's control abilities, like the PES franchise for soccer fans as one example.

" @CL60 said:

" @FlipperDesert said:

" I'd put a post here explaining that they're abandoning the "hardcore" gamer because the N64 and Gamecube were flops commercially with no third-party support, and even then plenty of games are being made for your stupid ass but let's face it, you won't listen and there will be ten other threads about this by the end of the day, why bother? "

The N64 was far from a flop :/ "

That was an overstatement, but sticking to cartridges when the PS1 was using CD-ROMs did them no favours with third-party devs, right?

OP, I'll give you two games off the top of my head: Punch-Out!! and Madworld, I don't think either game sold well despite decent reviews. On that note, Chinatown Wars for the DS also didn't do so great. Why should they try to market games to an audience that's not buying them anyway? Developers also shouldn't be making games suited for a standard controller on the Wii, they should be making new types of games for a motion control scheme that work naturally with it.Nintendo puts plenty of polish on their games, they may not all be aimed at you but let's be honest, we're all a little old for Mario and Pokémon now, they're still good at what they do. And even then, they're just a business, they owe nothing to you and they go where the money goes. It's not fair to blame them for some lazy minigame collaborations put out on their console.Edit: I'd like to add I bothered because this doesn't appear to be a troll thread. \o/ "

So out of that list of examples you chose one easy target and run with it based on assumptions, as if the Wii is the only system that has had hyped titles that fail to deliver. Haze anyone? Too Human? Countless others on any system of any generation? Yes, games don't always turn out well, but that says more about the given studio and their decisions than the system they're developing for. I think everyone here knows that Ubisoft has been a shovelware factory when it comes to the Wii, but even they have some glaring exceptions with the likes of Dawn of Discovery.

Then, you babbled on about how third party titles just don't work on it. That's quite a generalisation, isn't it? Have you even looked at third party titles released for it, even recently? Have you seen the scores the likes of Little King's Story and Dawn of Discovery and Boom Blox Bash Party were getting?  What about all the titles I mentioned in that mother of all comments? 99% are third party titles. Are you dismissing all of them as wagglefests, ignoring their existence, dismissing the developers at the helm of many of those projects, their track records, or something else I don't quite get? I mean, what, do you have a PS360, are you into the genres I mentioned? JRPG for example, did you not find Tales of Vesperia appealing? Does Tales of Graces for the Wii not appear just as appealing, given the host of improvements in things like the battle system, and the larger scope? Similar comparisons can be made for many of the other titles I mentioned, generalisations just don't work since I made sure to include many different genres exactly for that reason, but you reacted just as I expected and said:

@Al3xand3r said:

"And so on, and so forth, honestly, I barely scratched the surface here. It all has been said dozens of times before, whether in threads dedicated to that or as responses to flamebait comments elsewhere, yet here we are, asking Wii owners to repeat themselves once more, perhaps only to dismiss each and every title with a few simple words [...]"

When the Wii gets a game that can graphically match God of War 2, then I'll say it can keep up. It obviously has the power, I just haven't seen a game that looks as good technically.

I really don't understand this desire for technical prowess. The 3 games I played most recently on my 360 were Braid, Castle Crashers and Symphony of the Night, and they were probably the 3 best game experiences I have had in ages. Go figure.

@AgentJ:
Read Hitchenson's post. That is why. One for every thousand is good enough for me. Plus, there's nothing to do in the middle of the night :P

But, you're right, this case is hopeless. At least there's the other side to read, for those who may be interested, and decide for themselves. I've said what I had to say, it gets easier with every post. Soon enough I'll be writing it all off the top of my head. Plus, it helps the Wii forum stay afloat!

Ugh... People don't fucking read... I didn't say that all of the third party titles on the Wii are horrible. There are some that are quite good I'm sure. But there are so many of them that aren't which is the problem. Look at the metacritic scores for games on the Wii and compare them with other consoles. You will see the difference in quality. And yes, I do dismiss alot of third party titles on the Wii as wagglefests and rotten pieces of shit that belong in the crater in New Mexico that's filled currently with copies of ET the game. Because many of them are exactly that. And yes, I did only use Red Steel 2 as an example since it made my point and I wasn't about to go and scrutinize every single aspect of your comment to the core only to have you make a longer comment about how my comment was wrong. Which would get us nowhere. Also you said "As for what you said about FPS, eh, rail/lightgun shooters aren't the same genre, both genres work just fine on the Wii if effort is put behind them. Like I said, there's one semi-requirement and that's to make the title exclusive"That, I find is a huge problem if every game that is going to have some level of quality on it has to be exclusive. And yes I'm sure some shooters would work well on the Wii if more effort were put into it. But that is exactly my point. I feel that Nintendo screwed themselves with the tech that they chose and not have something like Wii motion plus already in the packaging. Anyway I put this blog in all Wii boards so I knew opinions like this would come up. I don't know but I've found this little argument kind've fun, even if miscommunication has seemed to have gone rapent in the past comments of this blog. Whatever you guys have your opinions. I disagree with them for the most part but that's just enough to start a flame war I guess. Also I'm not ill informed, I just haven't heard of many games for the Wii come out and haven't been checking which ones seem to be good in Japan.

The majority of games, period, is shit. They just don't get any attention on other systems, people only point and laugh @ the Wii versions. Do you realise the size of this industry and what a tiny fraction of it you care to purchase? Do you realise the PC was, and is, home to the same type of shit shovelware that now find their way to the Wii? Do you realise the PS2 was the same before it? It's not just "most Wii games" that are shit, it's "most games" that are shit. So, twisting this into a simple yet factual "the majority of Wii games is shit" proves nothing. The only difference is that, on the Wii, the various online communities and websites point out and laugh at such Wii games, while often ignoring the good examples. On the other hand, those same shit games are buried and never spoken of for the other systems. Hell, that horse adventure thing is on the 360 as well as the Wii, for example. As further indication, most of the games I mentioned aren't even covered here and on many other websites on a regular basis. For example, did you see the 2-3 Tales of Graces trailers here? A load of Crystal Bearers media (even in English)? No? I didn't think so.

Again, you asked for upcoming games, I provided that much, with several glorious examples that anyone would recognise their worth, even from the perspective of a mere industry observer, instead of ignore them as a gamer. Those games are pretty damn good worldwide, not just "in Japan". Sure, things like Monster Hunter are a craze there yet no so much here, but that's only one game. What about Dragon Quest X? That's pretty much the RPG franchise only second to Final Fantasy everywhere (actually, first in Japan). I also made sure to only include games that are pretty much guaranteed to show up to the West, so that final "in Japan" point is also meaningless. There were a couple of examples of Western games as well. Also, I didn't ask if you, in general, dismiss some random games in those ways, I asked that for the specific games I mentioned, but you dodged that nicely enough, avoiding any and all discussion about them. There's no miscommunication here, only a lot of stubborness. And with that, I'm done (for real this time). It seems that so are you. Oh well.

Force Unleashed Wii has an identical metascore to the otherversions. It sold more than on PS3. Let's not forget some industry veterans who simply can't grasp the Wii and certainly affect such averages. I'm just saying. Yeah, I'm done on the main subject, this was a side order :P

Okay, I'm done for good, side order or not, I won't even read again so I won't be lured into responding. Just for your sake, AgentJ!

On top of that, Force Unleashed owns the other versions. I have played both 360 and Wii versions. The Wii version looks craptacular, but the gesture controls of the lightsaber and force powers are absolutely fucking fantastic. Blog post: "I thought the Force Unleashed (Wii) was broken." They save what is otherwise a pretty mediocre action game.

The majority of Wii multiplats and ports are complimented, not criticised, for their controls. Games Bully, Okami, RE4, CoD, Godfather, Tomb Raider, Tenchu, Ultimate Alliance, Manhunt, PES, GST, Tiger Woods, or the New Play Control games.

Running the Wii out of the optional composite cables at 480p has made a great improvement, and makes my Wii as 'HD' as I really think it needs to be. Mario Galaxy was a great looking game from the start but I wouldn't say many other games on the WIi look that good.

"I did think Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 wasn't as engaging as it could have been though =/ "