It's hard to blame anybody; it's just a difficult and unfortunate situation. However, I do find it odd that she only notices these extra charges after so long; I would imagine people like to check how their bills look after the end of every month.
@EpicSteve: Totally agree, it would be nice if MS cut this poor woman a deal. But she and her son are quite dumb. They shoudlnt have fucked this up so badly. And who doesnt check their bank atleast once a month? Really?!?
" So this all took place over six months? How did she not notice this? Am I getting something wrong, cause I find this whole aspect of it to just be odd? Also, how did the kid not know that things cost money? The kid is 11, not fucking 4. He should know better by now. I'm pretty sure it is fairly obvious whenever you buy something from the marketplace. It tells you how much you are spending when you purchase something. Bah, this whole thing is stupid. "
Agreed. I feel bad for the family, but there's no way I would have done something that stupid as an 11 year old.
Always the positive guy, huh. I bet you get invited to a lot of parities. Unless your the kind of guy isolating himself from the a world he clearly resents.
Wow tons of bad parenting coming through in that article.
" When he is in gaming mode he can't be thinking about the money. You can't put all that responsibility on a young boy"
What kind of nonsense is that. The kid is 11 not 4. 11 year old kids have a concept of money especially if they live in a house where money is as tight as she claims it to be. There is no way the kid didn't know what he was doing and was just acting stupid when he got caught so he wouldn't get in trouble.
I'm surprised the kid in this story was actually aware that he'd done something wrong and felt such remorse for his actions, usually when a story like this comes up the parent is an idiot, the kid is a dick, or both, I must say I actually sympathise with all parties involved on this one. I think the kid's slightly to blame but he's 11 and it seems like he didn't really realise what he was doing, but I think most of the blame falls on the mother. She was the one in charge of her own credit card details and cash, and she let it happen to herself. My sympathy wavers slightly knowing that the mother is trying to blame Microsoft for this, as she's criticising them for not having strong enough parental controls in place when she obviously didn't even try to use the parental controls herself, something which would have most definitely stopped this happening.
I don't have an illusions that things like this are the reason microsoft SAVES YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION WITHOUT ASKING ONTO THE CONSOLE AND THE ONLY WAY TO REMOVE IT IS TO LITERALLY CALL THEM AND DEMAND IT BE REMOVED.
I like the jackasses in this thread acting like it's the mothers fault though. Retarded.
" I don't have an illusions that things like this are the reason microsoft SAVES YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION WITHOUT ASKING ONTO THE CONSOLE AND THE ONLY WAY TO REMOVE IT IS TO LITERALLY CALL THEM AND DEMAND IT BE REMOVED. I like the jackasses in this thread acting like it's the mothers fault though. Retarded. "
But it totally is the mother's fault, how is it Microsoft's?
Just because it's difficult to remove a credit card doesn't make them at fault for bad parenting.
" She gave an 11 year old her card details. lol. It's her fault. No clue how he managed to get a 1,000 pound bill though. What on Earth could he have bought? "
No she didn't. The 360 system saves your credit card info when you add it for anything and the only way to remove it is to call them and spend 3 hours on the phone demanding it's removed. It's also set as the default payment option meaning anytime you hit HEY I WANNA PLAY THIS GAME it goes ahead and uses it for you.
" I don't have an illusions that things like this are the reason microsoft SAVES YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION WITHOUT ASKING ONTO THE CONSOLE AND THE ONLY WAY TO REMOVE IT IS TO LITERALLY CALL THEM AND DEMAND IT BE REMOVED. I like the jackasses in this thread acting like it's the mothers fault though. Retarded. "
But it totally is the mother's fault, how is it Microsoft's? Just because it's difficult to remove a credit card doesn't make them at fault for bad parenting. "
It's microsofts for hiding the fact that the information is held, difficult to remove, and is set to be the default and extremely-available-to-use payment option with no way to remove said option while the wording on purchasing implies it does none of this.
As for bad parenting.. the kid is 11. Did you make absolutely no mistakes as a child? Do you think you could have understood the subtleties of complicated and deliberately shadily worded TOS's and EULA's as an 11 year old?
If so, do you think that should apply to everyone?
I'd love to hear how this is bad parenting though.
This is utterly ridiculous. The Xbox has parental features that stop this type of thing from happening, she also says that she put her card details onto the machine to let him buy things easier. What the hell did she expect? I don't see how the blame could be placed on Microsoft at all, and I hope they don't give in and refund her for this. I especially love that she pretends the kid didn't know what he was doing. Or did she honestly believed that?
" She gave an 11 year old her card details. lol. It's her fault. No clue how he managed to get a 1,000 pound bill though. What on Earth could he have bought? "
No she didn't. The 360 system saves your credit card info when you add it for anything and the only way to remove it is to call them and spend 3 hours on the phone demanding it's removed. It's also set as the default payment option meaning anytime you hit HEY I WANNA PLAY THIS GAME it goes ahead and uses it for you. "
While I agree that storing the card details by default is annoying, she still said she done this purposefully so he can buy things when he wants and with parental settings activated, he wouldn't have been able to buy anything without permission.
yeah, it shouldn't save the card's in formation in the first place, only if prompted to, M$ do this kind of thing exactly because they know it will make that much easier for a kid to keep impulse buying stuff afterward.
" This is utterly ridiculous. The Xbox has parental features that stop this type of thing from happening, she also says that she put her card details onto the machine to let him buy things easier. What the hell did she expect?"
I don't know why this has to keep being repeated, but the system does this AUTOMATICALLY WITHOUT ASKING FOR PERMISSION OR STATING WHAT IT IS DOING OR THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT when you make ANY purchase. She didn't "put her card on the system for him to use", the system automatically took that information and made it the default option that is always turned on and can not be turned off unless you spend 3 hours on the phone with microsoft - none of this information is made clear, and in fact the wording implies the opposite is true when you make your first purchase.
@Pinworm45: I was under the impression she purposefully saved them, so I take that back. Still, parental settings would have made this impossible for him to do and I once again, I do feel this is very much the fault of the parents for not paying attention to what they're doing. Just sounds like another parent who buys their kids mature rated games, then complains about the violence. I also don't believe an 11 year old kid could be buying things from XBL without realizing he's actually spending money.. even if the mother didn't know her details were still on there, he sure as hell knew he was paying actual money for the content he was buying.
" @Pinworm45: I was under the impression she purposefully saved them, so I take that back. Still, parental settings would have made this impossible for him to do and I once again, I do feel this is very much the fault of the parents for not paying attention to what they're doing. Just sounds like another parent who buys their kids mature rated games, then complains about the violence. I also don't believe an 11 year old kid could be buying things from XBL without realizing he's actually spending money.. even if the mother didn't know her details were still on there, he sure as hell knew he was paying actual money for the content he was buying. "
Sure, it could have been prevented by using parental controls. But the system gives you no warning that you need to set them. It does not tell you it is going to make this option the default, always on, incredibly easy to access method of purchasing. It does not make any of those things clear at all, and in fact, the wording of purchases implies the opposite. Don't take my word for it, call microsoft, remove your info, and then make a purchase and read what it says.
It's the natural response not to assume that any of these things will be done. When I go to the store and make a purchase, I don't expect that the store saves my information and makes it so that anyone with my last name who makes a purchase has it automatically used on my credit card unless I call their customer service and have my information removed.
Why should a mother of an 11 year old make those assumptions? even if you're going to say "well hurp derp it's her fault for not spending the time to research this" - which is retarded because this isn't something one should have to research - it's still very plainly a ploy by microsoft and very fucking dirty.
" She must be able to afford to lose that much money if she didn't notice for 6 months. Anyone who was really struggling to make ends meet would have noticed almost immediately that something was wrong with their bank account. "
Completely true. I don't think the kid understood just how much money he spent. First it was probably just like £5. Then a tenner. It'd just keep going up, and the kid probably knew he was spending a large amount, just not that large.
" It's partly Microsoft's fault for using fucking points instead of just reall money. "
but there's no way he can add point to his account without knowing he was charging it to his mom's card. Frankly it's lack of proper parenting for not A. Making sure she knew about her son's shopping spree because of lack of supervision (yes kids that age need it) and B. for not fully explaining and educating the kid as to the value of money.
" It's partly Microsoft's fault for using fucking points instead of just reall money. "
but there's no way he can add point to his account without knowing he was charging it to his mom's card. Frankly it's lack of proper parenting for not A. Making sure she knew about her son's shopping spree because of lack of supervision (yes kids that age need it) and B. for not fully explaining and educating the kid as to the value of money. "
He's like 10. Ten year old kids don't think that hard about how they're getting the stuff. I'm not saying it's Microsoft's fault, but they do contribute to this by having it be points. That's basically why it is points, so you don't realize that your spending money. "Hmm, it'a 400 points (no one is thinking $5)" or at least that is what Microsoft hopes.
Why should a mother of an 11 year old make those assumptions? even if you're going to say "well hurp derp it's her fault for not spending the time to research this" - which is retarded because this isn't something one should have to research - it's still very plainly a ploy by microsoft and very fucking dirty. "
They only give credit cards to ADULTS for a reason. So they don't "accidentally" spendseventeen-fucking-hundred dollars on video games. Stop blaming Microsoft for failing to anticipate every dumb thing that a person can possibly do.
Also, they made like 70 billion in revenue in 2010. Do you think they really need to trick this chick to steal her money? It is literally inconsequential to them. If you seriously think that they run their business by duping money out of poor, stupid people like this woman, you need to get your tinfoil hat refitted.
@LiquidPrince: And the above goes same for you, dude. Get a life. Also, Mister Blue Name, if you think Microsoft is evil you should check the story of Sony vs. George Hotz.
I think the biggest change Microsoft should change is to dump the points system and have everything labelled in terms of £ and $. Having prices in terms of prices of Microsoft points will just end up confusing children who are learning about dealing with money.
" I think the biggest change Microsoft should change is to dump the points system and have everything labelled in terms of £ and $. Having prices in terms of prices of Microsoft points will just end up confusing children who are learning about dealing with money. "
MS deliberately uses the points system to obfuscate the pricing. They know exactly what they're doing, and know that there are plenty of "slower" people out there. They also know you will have left over points which you can't buy shit with, thus giving you an added incentive to purchase more points to make those leftover points worthwhile.
Why should a mother of an 11 year old make those assumptions? even if you're going to say "well hurp derp it's her fault for not spending the time to research this" - which is retarded because this isn't something one should have to research - it's still very plainly a ploy by microsoft and very fucking dirty. "
They only give credit cards to ADULTS for a reason. So they don't "accidentally" spendseventeen-fucking-hundred dollars on video games. Stop blaming Microsoft for failing to anticipate every dumb thing that a person can possibly do.
Also, they made like 70 billion in revenue in 2010. Do you think they really need to trick this chick to steal her money? It is literally inconsequential to them. If you seriously think that they run their business by duping money out of poor, stupid people like this woman, you need to get your tinfoil hat refitted.
@LiquidPrince: And the above goes same for you, dude. Get a life. Also, Mister Blue Name, if you think Microsoft is evil you should check the story of Sony vs. George Hotz. "
At least read the thread so you have a vague idea of what you're talking about.
But if you'd like to justify microsoft automatically storing your credit information and setting it as the default, always on, easy to access method to purchase everything - without telling you or giving any warnings - while the only way to remove your credit card or turn off auto renewals as something that's not a dirty ploy, please, be my guest. Please justify that to me.
Also, do you seriously think this is the only case? go read their forums, it happens all the time. They're making millions off of it.
Please though, justify that for me. I'd also love to ear you justify that as something stupid that needs to be anticipated. People wanting to cancel their subscription or not have their credit card information stored or have it removed? Really? that's something that you'd classify as "failing to anticipate every dumb thing a person could do"?
At least read the thread so you have a vague idea of what you're talking about. But if you'd like to justify microsoft automatically storing your credit information and setting it as the default, always on, easy to access method to purchase everything - without telling you or giving any warnings - while the only way to remove your credit card or turn off auto renewals as something that's not a dirty ploy, please, be my guest. Please justify that to me. Also, do you seriously think this is the only case? go read their forums, it happens all the time. They're making millions off of it. Please though, justify that for me. I'd also love to ear you justify that as something stupid that needs to be anticipated. People wanting to cancel their subscription or not have their credit card information stored or have it removed? Really? that's something that you'd classify as "failing to anticipate every dumb thing a person could do"? Really? "
*sigh* You're supposed to be all growed-up when you get a credit card, dude. In the year 2010, when everyone buys everything online, people are supposed to know this stuff. Stop blaming Microsoft for the dumb things that dumb people do when 99.9% of their customers never have a problem. We need to learn to take some fucking responsibility when we screw up.
Also, you used the word "justify" four times. Defensive much?
I work at a financial institution so I can answer this very easily. It is the mom's fault for giving her son access to her debit card. If she did not know the purpos or how it was going to be accessable, she is at blame even more for being irresponsible with her own finances.
" I work at a financial institution so I can answer this very easily. It is the mom's fault for giving her son access to her debit card. If she did not know the purpos or how it was going to be accessable, she is at blame even more for being irresponsible with her own finances. "
Exactly. Things like this are why so many people have debt problems. We need to take responsibility for where we put our names and account numbers. Money doesn't appear out of thin air.
" It's the mom's fault. She should have been smart enough to lock down her card after the 1st purchase. The kid knew what he was doing. He had to buy the points to purchase the games. There's no "buy this game button", it's a two step process. Regardless, the mother should have been more careful. It isn't a companies fault when someone gets fucked by their product due to not knowing how everything really works. "
also im sure it didnt happen in one month, how about checking your credit card statement for unusual purchases like a regular person...
"She must be able to afford to lose that much money if she didn't notice for 6 months. Anyone who was really struggling to make ends meet would have noticed almost immediately that something was wrong with their bank account. "
Somewhere between the mom (for not taking the time to understand it), the kid (he should totally have known better), and MS (they won't let you remove a credit card and the points purchase system is usually "just mash A a couple times" making it so a monkey could buy things).
edit: Looked at the picture and it's pretty obvious the kid totally knew what he was doing.
Ooooohhhhhh, ok. I get it now. So she's a part time "singer" lol - thats where the money comes from........ And was that kid in "Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels" by any chance?
It's totally the kid's fault for being kind of a dick. There's no way in hell an 11 year old doesn't understand the concept of money unless he's as dense as a lead brick. The mom's a shitty parent for not punishing him, too.
Microsoft is definitely not at fault. The kid is at fault for being too stupid to not notice that he's buying stuff, and a lot of it. The mother is at fault for being too stupid to leave her card number in the open for use.
How do you even rack up $2000 worth of purchases on XBL?! I don't even think there's enough content to do that!
Damn now that I think about it, that's like 80,000+ MS points right?
Also to the people saying Microsoft should be making it clearer, and that the parents shouldn't have to do the research... I hope you don't have credit cards of your own, because you clearly don't understand the secret to not getting your card stolen/charged all the time (HINT: It involves not giving out your credit card to companies and services you don't understand). It's just basic, really.
" My nephew liked to turn on the 360 controller when he was tiny, and almost bought $20 worth of microsoft points on two separate occasions with random button presses. Now I have a password to prevent my next nephew from doing the same. Moral of the story, never give kids anything. "
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