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What If Your Game Console Was Just A Video Stream?

What if your game machine was just a video display box hooked up to the Internet? OnLive thinks that very concept will change the way we play.

Pretty interesting story over on VentureBeat tonight that takes a look at OnLive, a new attempt at gaming via cloud computing via Steve Perlman, the guy who brought you WebTV. OnLive will be showing off its device at this year's Game Developers Conference.

The core concept of OnLive is really pretty simple when you break it down. What if you take all the computing power out of your gaming console and put it into a huge server farm somewhere else on the Internet? Then, instead of having your controller directly control your local game machine, your inputs are sent over the Internet to this magic cloud of computers, which sends back a low-latency video stream of the action. If it works, then suddenly things like CPUs and graphics hardware becomes kind of meaningless at the consumer level. In fact, so do retail versions of games, since you'd ostensibly be signing up for a service and/or buying your games directly from the OnLive device.

Speaking of which, here's a shot (or at least a mock-up) of said device, courtesy of VentureBeat:

No Caption Provided
Tiny, right? Apparently it's all made possible via proprietary compression algorithms that get latency down to around 80ms--which if you've played enough PC shooters in your time, you'll know that that's a pretty playable ping. But is it enough? Really, that's only one of the questions I'm left with after reading the article.

Whether you know it or not, a lot of games out there rely on pretty specific timing. While you could certainly play Street Fighter IV over the Internet, the game's top players are so busy counting each individual frame that even that 80ms is going to add up. And would games like Rock Band work properly with that sort of latency? It kind of reminds me of the time I tried to hook my Neo Geo up to my Sony AirBoard--that's a wireless TV that receives signal from a base station. If you weren't paying attention, the games were pretty much playable, but the moment you really started focusing on the action, it was an unsatisfying mess. Of course, for games with big online components, like first-person shooters and other action games, players are already used to some sort of latency, and games are built to predict your actions just enough to keep things running smoothly.

But the old QuakeWorld model of guessing where you're going to be next doesn't seem like something I'd want to apply to every single game ever made. I have to imagine that the games running on the service would have to be "optimized" to work properly. So, as you've probably already expected, color me skeptical. I can't help but think something is snake oil the minute people start talking about "the cloud." It screams "check it out, we shouted a bunch of buzzwords and someone gave us millions of dollars!" But most crazy, futuristic devices start out sounding too good to be true. So color me totally interested in seeing this thing first-hand. Apparently 16 games will be running from the GDC show floor later this week.
Jeff Gerstmann on Google+

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Genjai

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Edited By Genjai

I love the concept. But, you pointed it out, Jeff, 80 ms will add up over time. I'd really like my gaming experiences to be fluid, regardless of lag. ...so maybe if we had FiOs, we'd be talking.

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OneEyedNinja7

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Edited By OneEyedNinja7

I think this is either going to do well or totally flop.

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Al3xand3r

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Edited By Al3xand3r

Streaming is not yet replacing traditional media or downloading for simpler things like movies or music, and they wanna take it 10 steps further already. Not happening in our life time. I can see it working for some MMORPG-esque project like the one linked by a few people here, but not as a means to play a large variety of games, or any game people want for that matter.

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Diamond

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Edited By Diamond

The device is going to have some problems no matter what :

Compression artifacts in live stream video will make even 720p not look so great (most probably).  There will be no reason for them to run any AA or anisotropic filtering in the games because they'll be destroyed by any compression.  Might as well turn down texture detail as well.

Latency will be bearable in the best case, unplayable in the worst case, no way they're getting past standard ping times.  In the absolute best case scenario, we're they're building right on the backbone like Google, we're talking an extra 50ms (back and forth), more likely to be 180ms+ with processing times, not counting any display lag.  They talk about the latency being less than human perception, but latency in games is ADDED to the human image processing times, so for any game, you're getting more than 200ms of lag, in the best case of this, we're talking more than 350ms.

ISP bandwidth caps are going to be a problem unless these guys actually cut the ISPs in on the profits.

I think money making will be hard for them unless they charge a LOT for subscriptions and game rentals / purchases.  Think of someone playing Crysis over their system, they're playing on probably at least $1000 of hardware, but they can't charge that much just to play the game.  1 person will use up one whole Crysis machine for a period of time.  With people popping in and out of games, you can probably have 10-20 people on a single machine at the very most.  That's just a single game.

With a service like this, unless they're very sucessful, you run a VERY large risk of losing any games you 'purchase' on the system.  Personally I like the idea of having my own gaming hardware and software, and if your net goes down or gets unstable for any period of time, forget playing any games at all.

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kimbokasteniv

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Edited By kimbokasteniv

If the lag for this is negligible, then I am all for it.

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Player1

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Edited By Player1
Wolverine said:
"I like the concept of it but dude what if the internet is down? I would personally rather just have a huge hard drive and download games than have to constantly stream them from the "cloud"."
Didn't even think of that. And as a person who's internet goes down alot...that is a huge concern.
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PockyG

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Edited By PockyG

It's got potential. Mobile gaming would be a very viable possibility with a fast wi-fi connection. The logistics and costs for this venture must be absurd though. Throw HD videos and music on it and you got a super computer on whatever you can hook up hdmi to. Too bad that my DSL connection would keel over using this service.

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SPARTACVS

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Edited By SPARTACVS

Oh god, I hope that the next Penny Arcade is about Onlive.

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destro

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Edited By destro

Meh. It wont be the end to console or PC gaming thats for sure. But i really like how their giving gamers a chance to play some games that they might not have been able to play because they dont own a high end PC. I've never played Crysis and i really want to. If this gives me a chance i might look into it. But if im paying for this i wouldnt want to pay anything more then 60 bills a year or so.

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Big_Fact_Hunt

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Edited By Big_Fact_Hunt

Just watched the GDC press conference and I'm a little dumbstruck to be honest. This could be an epic waste of 7 years development or simply be the most epic thing to have happened to the industry in years. I wish them the best of luck and I really hope it works out. Only a 5Mbps line required at most they say, awsome! I have 20Mbps fibre so if or when it hits the UK and Europe I'll be checking it out for sure.

Also it could be great for combating piracy and that has to be good for every dev and pub out there.

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miningguyx360

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Edited By miningguyx360

I like it but i want to bring my console to places that might not have internet but have a tv so until we get crazy coverage of internet all over the world wirelessly this isn't practical

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LordAndrew

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Edited By LordAndrew
gundambob646 said:
"this seems like a interesting device.  but a lot problems, like no PS/2 ports.  last time i checked Winpc gamers will not use a controller.  they refuse!!! now those 2 usb ports are to connect a controller or keyboard and mouse?? hmm isnt it strange most winpcs us PS/2 for their inputs.  which means that device is kinda useless.  another thing i like the idea having it in the cloud because i pc game sometimes but i dont upgrade my hardware unless its old.  i mostly make videos and edit photos in CS4.  but its a good idea less stress on your computer for me i am a controller kinda of guy and that controller is like the 360 controller.  so if they support it i would spend the 50bucks for a 360 controller.  feels better than something else but i prefer ps3 ( thats my default console)( not a fanboi) another thing i would like to see the price because this service is aimed at people like me console users that dont upgrade their pcs for games.  so i am game to look at this"
PS/2? That used to be an issue with my Win95 rig. Then we got a new computer with Windows XP and modern interfaces. Problem solved.
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gimmysumcowbel

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Edited By gimmysumcowbel

i am really interested in this
dont know if it will turn out though

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drbob

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Edited By drbob

There is no way this can work in the real world. It will make for a nice demo at GDC on a local network, but expecting this to work properly over currently available residential broadband connections is ridiculous.

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bulletclip6

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Edited By bulletclip6

it depends on the developers and how they feel about this. I dont see them getting Halo, or God of war, unless they pay Sony and Microsoft. So exclusives are probably out the window. This is pretty much another console. Let the 4 way battle begin.

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lordofultima

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Edited By lordofultima

All of my keyboards and mice in the last 4 1/2 years have been usb.

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gundambob646

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Edited By gundambob646

this seems like a interesting device.  but a lot problems, like no PS/2 ports.  last time i checked Winpc gamers will not use a controller.  they refuse!!! now those 2 usb ports are to connect a controller or keyboard and mouse?? hmm isnt it strange most winpcs us PS/2 for their inputs.  which means that device is kinda useless.  another thing i like the idea having it in the cloud because i pc game sometimes but i dont upgrade my hardware unless its old.  i mostly make videos and edit photos in CS4.  but its a good idea less stress on your computer for me i am a controller kinda of guy and that controller is like the 360 controller.  so if they support it i would spend the 50bucks for a 360 controller.  feels better than something else but i prefer ps3 ( thats my default console)( not a fanboi) another thing i would like to see the price because this service is aimed at people like me console users that dont upgrade their pcs for games.  so i am game to look at this

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halberdierv2

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Edited By halberdierv2

ill admit this, as revolutionary as it sounds, I don't like it...

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DayOneAdvantage

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Edited By DayOneAdvantage

If I were a PC gamer, I would be thrilled with this concept. Hell, the only reason I DON"T game on PC is because of the cost and hastle of upgrading it to keep up with the next big game. So maybe that's a small win for the service right there.

As for playing console games on this service, right off the bat you are looking at 3rd party titles only, obviously. No Halo, no Mario, no God of War 3. Unless the service envelopes the entire gaming market, making Sony, Nintendo, and MS 3rd parties all creating games for it, there's little point for a regular console  gamer to pick OnLive. Maybe they can find success with casual or thrifty gamers who havent bought a current gen console. GTA4 or Madden 10, without needing a 360 or PS3? Could be tempting.

 Since OnLive would destroy used game sales, as well as the costs of manufacturing and shipping physical media, gamers will expect to pay less to "own" or "rent" through OnLive. If a 60 dollar game on 360 is made available day-and-date OnLive for 30, that sounds great, depending how much the subscription rates are on top of that. If the service itself is 20 bucks monthly, then you have to buy several games per month to find any real savings compared to consoles. If you have to pay x amount to get the OnLive hardware, then roughly 250 bucks a year, EVERY year just to use said hardware, OnlLive will fail. If the service is close to the 50 dollars that XBOXLIVE costs, AND the games are half price-ish, then sign me up...............

.............assuming that OnLive actually works. AND that Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo don't create virtually the exact same thing WITH their first party libraries.

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GozerTC

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Edited By GozerTC

Wasn't  WebTV ahead of it's time?  I think he's once again about 5 years too soon for this to work right.  It's a cool concept and I look forward to some research in that direction but I think it's too soon.

A downloadable game network is more probable.  Like Gametap and the like where all the games are downloaded to your HD console with no physical media. 

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randiolo

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Edited By randiolo
Mats said:
""Apparently it's all made possible via proprietary compression algorithms that get latency down to around 80ms"

How the hell is a compression algorithm going to change latency since this factor mainly is dependent upon the network infrastructrure, distance (re: laws of physics) (and part routing/network protocols) and not bandwith?
"
...yes .. i agree
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The_Soviet

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Edited By The_Soviet

This will not end well.

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Al3xand3r

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Edited By Al3xand3r

That pic looks awful and like an april fool's joke.

But whether this particular application is doomed to fail or is an april fool's joke or not, technologies like these ARE being researched by others. Also, how much fail is it to make april fool's jokes before april fool's, and just reveal they were jokes on that day? Be moar creative.

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HeroicDrinkingSong

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I like the concept, but I'd exceed my isp's bandwidth cap pretty quickly.  And thats without taking into account the internet usage of everyone else in the house. Unless the Onlive guys have taken that into account somehow this smells like failure right out of the gate.

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damnboyadvance

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Edited By damnboyadvance

Notice the word spelled when you start at the E and then continue counter-clockwise.

EVIL!


But I think they wanted it different than that. Notice when you start at L then continue clockwise, it spells...

LIVE! As on ONLIVE!
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LiveOrDie1212

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Edited By LiveOrDie1212
Keeng said:
"GioVANNI said:
"I'm suspicious of a 'April's Fools Day' prank in the works here."
I really hope you're right.
"

GioVANNI said:
"I'm suspicious of a 'April's Fools Day' prank in the works here."
haha, damn those little rascals.
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Keeng

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Edited By Keeng
GioVANNI said:
"I'm suspicious of a 'April's Fools Day' prank in the works here."
I really hope you're right.
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GioVANNI

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Edited By GioVANNI

I'm suspicious of a 'April's Fools Day' prank in the works here.

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Edited By MarcusOfLycia

There's something about controlling something physically that makes you feel like, well, that you own it. Cloud computing is interesting, and may work for some things, but at the end of the day I want to know where my stuff is, and I want no one else to have access to it. I guess I'm not quite so sure the companies that provide these services are 1) trustworthy of my confidence, and 2) going to survive for the rest of my life. I also have a feeling it would be hard to mod a cloud-computing oriented game.

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Edited By TheJollyRajah

I don't think it would work now, but wait just 20 years and I think we'll have the technology for it. It's not practical now, but it will be in the future.

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mikemcn

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Edited By mikemcn

Huh.... i just bought a better PC to keep up with changes in hardware i sure hope this doesnt make that a total waste of time.

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Crono

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Edited By Crono

Speaking of latency/ping in games; Why do nearly all console games ignore showing you your ping?  Some do but most don't/won't; hiding your ping seems to have become the rule rather than the exception.  I hate having to guess which game will be playable and which will be a whack-a-mole event where enemies are constantly popping all over the screen.

Also, I like the idea of the server cloud-idea because it will right a huge wrong that consoles have going on for them:  Currently nearly every console game uses peer-to-peer method of hosting/playing games and that is a terrible way to enjoy a game online.  You can't freely join and drop in and out of most console games online, you have to go to a lobby, wait for everyone to join, start the game, play a couple of rounds, then wait around till the game starts again, initiating the process all over again.

With dedicated servers these issues end.  You can join a game whenever you want knowing that the server which you are joining has only 1 purpose: to host the game you are joining.  You can freely join and leave a game whenever you want for as long as you want without having to search for a new game every round.  The max players could potentially increase in most games as well.

To me, this is one of the biggest draw-backs of console games online, the lack of dedicated servers.
I like that consoles give you an even footing, even if I hate playing shooters with sticks (sorry, mouse > sticks :p ) but I wish they would adopt some of the PC's finer points like dedicated servers; you would think a subscription to xbox live would at least help pay for some on the 360 side of things... -_-

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paisan13

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Edited By paisan13

While all the WoW guys may find this idea interesting, as i'm only playing single player games i don't find this all to interesting, except the concept which is kinda cool.

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Yakomo

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Edited By Yakomo

I seriously doubt issues with latency can completely be addressed, especially with the fact that the speed of light, is still the speed of light, no matter what planet you're on.   You would need to establish many regional server farms to be able to maintain a low and tolerable latency.   With the fact that we're clearly moving in the direction of HD, the bandwidth issues will be even higher.  From a computer science point of view, the benefits of data caching, especially with the most expensive (time bound resource) being the network jack you're plugged into, it makes sense to maintain an end point unit (referencing the XBOX 360, PS3, Wii, PC... etc...)

You'll find that even the processor you're using to view this html page, uses level 2 caching, and tries it's best to conserve the bus bandwidth between the processor and the memory.

With the obvious need to upgrade the end point unit regularly anyway, given new network protocols, faster networking tech (ie. Gigabit Ethernet becoming common), newer display mediums (ie. 3D displays) or even newer controllers (Keyless keyboards >.<; ).  It makes sense that the current video gaming model will continue to persist in the near if not indefinite future... assuming the world doesn't end.  

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momentarylogic

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Edited By momentarylogic

I love the idea, the only problem is getting everyone on board or a great deal of everyone. The hardware developers are going to drop money down against it, intel/amd/nvidia so that might be a hinderance. But if it does happen, I would drop for a really big and expensive TV.

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Tarakun

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Edited By Tarakun

This seems like a cool idea, but I don't want it. What am I supposed to do when my internet's down? And besides that, I like having consoles and game boxes. It makes me feel good to see a ton of games on my shelf.

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MordeaniisChaos

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Edited By MordeaniisChaos

Even if it works... I'm not so happy about this. And I am not sure this will work anyway, and it certainly won't be able to run Crysis at Max (and lets be honest, you wouldnt want to, the detail goes beyond that, trust me) especially when a million people do the same. Personally, I think I am happy with my consoles as it is. I dunno why, but this makes me uneasy. Its reallllllly cool technology, or use of technology at the least, but I'm not sure this is gunna work to the gamer's advantage. What can I say, I'm not an optimist.

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jakob187

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Edited By jakob187

Not the first time someone has tried to do this concept *cough*PHANTOM*cough*...and I guarantee it'll die just like the rest before it.

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RHCPfan24

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Edited By RHCPfan24

I don't really like this idea. Besides, many people don't even have competent PC's and Mac's so it may not be able to run properly. I just don' like the idea of ALL streaming. It gives me a bad feeling.

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JQuizzle

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Edited By JQuizzle

i think this is very COOL but i think my inter net is to slow!!

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TwoOneFive

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Edited By TwoOneFive


The controler looks great, very 360 like which is totally a-okay, but uh, the button....E and V should be different, that sounds too close, over online games, if there even is online multiplayer (hurry up and answer that) telling people which button to push or something like that could get confusing.. did you say V!? no, i said V!!! you mean E?! NO, V!!!!
edit: just realized it stands for LIVE, but it doesn't matter, they should do away and come up with something different. i think sony's shapes were the best idea for buttons....
but i have to repeat, i really like that controller design, looks 360ish so you know its comfy and great for fps games, and it has a very sleek sexy ps3ish tone.
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monkeyman864

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Edited By monkeyman864

This could truly revolutionize gaming as we know it.  If this fails I will not be surprised.

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Keeng

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Edited By Keeng

If you don't have a flawless internet connection, then what? I really hope this NEVER happens because not everyone has a reliable, lag-free connection. Who wants to sacrifice the quality of their games? I understand the enormous benefits but I don't want the risks involved either. 

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Scratch

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Edited By Scratch

I don't know, something seems off. I really can't imagine this being the new "console".

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damnboyadvance

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Edited By damnboyadvance

I might try it. MIGHT.

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prinny_god

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Edited By prinny_god

not now but in like 10 years yes

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JayPee

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Edited By JayPee

What's the bandwidth of a full 1080p signal or even 720p when you factor in the colour depth most people take as standard? HD probably isn't high on the list of priorities of the target demographic I guess....


Certainly UK broadband has a fair way to come to deliver streaming video for the number of hours I game each day. Right now just watching the video contect on this site has forced my ISP to ramp my connection to a ridiculously low speed during peak (read 'gaming') hours. It could also never really be competitive - what if there was a newtork stall just as you reached a critical moment in a single plyer game, not to mention multiplayer (lag switch sensitivity anyone!)?

Even if you could do it would you want to? Consolidating computer power seems an awfully messy solution when you factor in scaleability. And rolling this kind of thing out internationally would be simply horrid.
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Sin4profit

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Edited By Sin4profit

It's an interesting idea full of possibilities...in theory.
For console gamers this thing's no threat at all..this thing's for people who want to play PC games but don't want to constantly keep up with the hardware upgrades.

Same as the Phantom? No, it's not...Xbox Live Marketplace is what the Phantom wanted to be...this thing's suggesting that you don't need to download data into a local system, no harddrive required. Basically this service has you controlling someone else's computer over a network (sending their computer the IO/controller input data)  and that computer's sending you back the video and audio output only.

I'm curious about this thing..the idea of just playing any demo i want without having to download it first is pretty appealing. I think this is definatly the way the PC gaming market needs to go if it wants to stop piracy dead, no more DRM issues, just play PC games as conveniently as console gamers get.

But in reality i don't see this thing succeeding unless they can make exclusive games that gamers will want to play....i don't see it being cheap enough to get my interest, and i don't see enough people taking an interest to where they could lower the prices.

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ddensel

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Edited By ddensel

On Live? You mean the Phantom?

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