BioWare 'Intrigued' by Wii Development

#1 Posted by Godwind (2596 posts) -

Speaking to IndustryGamers as part of a larger, wide-ranging interview, BioWare's Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk briefly touched upon the idea of broadening their audience. BioWare's games have been epic in scope and we asked the duo if their role-playing games would be a good fit for the Nintendo Wii audience. 

Muzyka responded, "I think the question we'd ask is, 'What is the Wii audience looking for, and what would we want to deliver that has emotionally powerful narrative?' And that probably wouldn't be exactly the same as everything else we do; we did a DS game and that was already very different from what we've done before, and the PC-only SKUs we did years ago were very different than the ones we've done for console... They're all different from one another. If we did a Wii game I think we'd approach it with the target audience in mind first and the vision of delivering an emotionally powerful narrative and go back to our basics in terms of some of the pillars of gameplay we'd like to bring to bear – exploration, progression, customization, conflict, story, narrative, and characters. How do we adapt that to the platform? That's how we'd approach it. The interface design on the Wii is very different from the other platforms, and that's really an opportunity because you can actually tell different kinds of stories and convey a different type of narrative. In the end the players are all human regardless of platform and they all want to feel something powerful and engaging. As a developer, you just need to really adapt and customize depending on the platform."

We further pushed him on the subject and asked if we might see a Wii game from BioWare soon. He continued, "We'd be intrigued by the idea of developing on Wii but we have nothing to announce right now. We do have some unannounced projects that we're not ready to talk about yet, and they are different from some things we've done in the past... Our goal, really long-term, is to broaden our base and continue to differentiate and have diversity of choice on different platforms, because we know there are different audiences on platforms like mobile and Wii, and different geographic markets and distribution and business models.  It's exciting, but you can't do all things at one time."

Our guess is we'll see something sooner rather than later from BioWare on the Wii. With an installed base of more than 50 million, the Wii's just too huge to ignore, and considering that EA owns BioWare, we think it's even more likely that BioWare will adhere to the publisher's multiplatform stance and deliver something for Wii in the near future.  


So first Bethesda and now Bioware.  Now we are waiting on Id and Epic Games to jump on the bandwagon.

#2 Edited by jakob187 (21759 posts) -

You know...all these people talk about "developing for the Wii is an interesting idea", blah blah blah blah blah.  However, we haven't heard a single announcement, seen one game, or ANYTHING about it.  Therefore, until people start putting up, they can shut the fuck up.


Meanwhile, BioWare needs to just keep working on Mass Effect 2 and The Old Republic.

#3 Edited by Venatio (4493 posts) -

So are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now. That would fucking suck, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PC

The Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this

#4 Posted by Black_Rose (7785 posts) -
@jakob187 said:
" You know...all these people talk about "developing for the Wii is an interesting idea", blah blah blah blah blah.  However, we haven't heard a single announcement, seen one game, or ANYTHING about it.  Therefore, until people start putting up, they can shut the fuck up.
This
#5 Posted by Godwind (2596 posts) -
@Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "

Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising.


#6 Posted by WitchHunter_Z (882 posts) -
@Godwind: While it's not the hardware that makes the game worth playing, sometimes it just doesn't feel right. I for one won't play a Bioware game [or any WRPG for that matter] on anything but a PC. I can't see what the Wii offers being of much use to Bioware, as waggle controls do not equal great storytelling and characterisation.
#7 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

It offers a pointer so you get control closer to the PC RPGs than on the other consoles. Duh. As for graphics, the Wii could easily handle Neverwinter Nights esque engines (I'm talking visual quality, the NWN engine was horribly unoptimised in its time, and probably couldn't be ported), which means far lower development costs and perhaps a longer or more experimental experience thanks to that aspect alone. Look @ what Square is doing for example, they're putting FFXIII on the PS360 with a super high budget and also super conventional FF formula, while on the Wii they've got The Crystal Bearers and they're letting loose with experimental gameplay sequences and even core game mechanics they've never tried before, like a physics and reactions based combat system. Just a thought. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but to say it offers "nothing" and pretend all there is to come from the controller is "waggle" is ignorant and narrow minded to say the least. As for visuals, I doubt many would mind something that looks as good as Tales of Graces (look it up) yet with a Western theme as Bioware is known for.

#8 Edited by Venatio (4493 posts) -
@Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?

And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes...


#9 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

You're speaking like PC gamers when Bioware started doing console games, you know. Ie, you sound ignorant and narrow minded. Just saying.

#10 Posted by jakob187 (21759 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:
" You're speaking just like PC gamers when Bioware started doing console games, you know. "
Right, but we're talking about the same company who's sole Nintendo-platformed product is a Sonic game that couldn't impress many people and sold for shit.  Granted, it's probably the best Sonic game to come out in the last 15 years or so, but still...
#11 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

So, they made a shitty game for SEGA and instead of blaming them (they sure as hell should have done as good as, if not better than Nintendo's own Mario & Luigi series, which took a platform duo in a similar direction to that game) you'll blame the platform it was on, the DS (as if the DS doesn't have good games, and RPGs at that?!), and somehow link it to a non-existent (as far as we know I guess, they don't say they're working on something) Wii effort's potential? If they want to make a Wii game, I'm all for it. If they want to make a shitty Wii game, obviously I'm not for that. It still has little to do with the platform of choice. Or Sonic, as it would be their own project and not a licenced character cash-in contract...

#12 Posted by Dalai (7070 posts) -

Until Bioware actually says they're working on a Wii title, there's not much to say.  Valve said something along these lines two years ago, but why would they even want to?  Valve and the Wii are totally incompatible.

At least Bethesda says they're working on an actual game for the Wii.  That's better than saying we're just merely interested.

#13 Posted by TheKidNixon (1564 posts) -

Nothing gets me hotter than the doctors talking about their pillars.

#14 Posted by jakob187 (21759 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:
" So, they made a shitty game for SEGA and instead of blaming them (they sure as hell should have done as good as, if not better than Nintendo's own Mario & Luigi series, which took a platform duo in a similar direction to that game) you'll blame the platform it was on, the DS (as if the DS doesn't have good games, and RPGs at that?!), and somehow link it to a non-existent (as far as we know I guess, they don't say they're working on something) Wii effort's potential? If they want to make a Wii game, I'm all for it. If they want to make a shitty Wii game, obviously I'm not for that. It still has little to do with the platform of choice. Or Sonic, as it would be their own project and not a licenced character cash-in contract... "
I can't blame the company making the game, as they've proven time and time again that they are gods of RPG creation!  Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect...I mean, these guys are THE STANDARD of RPG games in the West...and in my own opinion, the STANDARD of what RPGs should always aspire to be.  Therefore, if you know the company is a pure-bred pedigree champion, then where DO you place the blame?  Sega?  Well, they've been running the franchise into the ground for a long time now, but even then, you can't blame it all on them.

I'm also not saying that the DS doesn't have good games.  As you pointed out, and I'll agree with, it has tons of great RPGs.  However, it has just as much shovelware as the Wii.  Don't worry, though.  I hate the PSP, so this isn't some fanboy rant or anything.  Nonetheless, the fact that a pedigree company went to a Nintendo product and the end result wasn't able to hold up to their other work in the same light doesn't speak poorly of BioWare.  As a matter of fact, all the concepts that they offered in the game were some of the things critics highlighted as being the best parts.  The problem would seem to lie in the platform they were developing for, as well as the company publishing the game.

In turn...this is why people are skeptical of BioWare coming over to develop on the Wii.  They don't work well within the world of "limitations".

Remember, Alexander, I actually like the Wii and the DS...a lot...to the point that I still own Elebits...  I'm simply stating that BioWare going over to the Nintendo consoles isn't the best of ideas.
#15 Posted by Godwind (2596 posts) -
@Venatio said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes... "

Clearly you don't work for Bioware when you consider they are interested in developing for the Wii, not you.
#16 Posted by Out_On_Bail (1549 posts) -
@Venatio said:
" So are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now. That would fucking suck, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Keep in mind, Bioware is a business. In that business there are development teams that work on their particular project.  Something like Valve and it's many games.  Valve has teams that do the development of a game.  So just because the company might want to explore other alternatives doesn't mean that they are abandoning the current projects.

And Jakob has it right.  Less talk, more action.  I think a company like Bioware could do wonderful things with the Wii, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I'd also be happy if the entire company is dedicating itself to TOR, but I'm confident that if they venture out onto other projects it will not limit the progress with TOR.
#17 Edited by jakob187 (21759 posts) -
@Out_On_Bail said:
"And Jakob has it right.  Less talk, more action.  I think a company like Bioware could do wonderful things with the Wii, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I'd also be happy if the entire company is dedicating itself to TOR, but I'm confident that if they venture out onto other projects it will not limit the progress with TOR."
Really, that's my biggest concern with this.  Look at how Rockstar put out Chinatown Wars on the DS, and it sold for shit.  Madworld on the Wii sold for shit as well.  They weren't bad games by any means.  No More Heroes got the same bum deal.  Basically, it would seem that any real attempt to reach those "core" gamers on the Wii and DS continue to fail.  Therefore, unless BioWare is going to work on making some kind of mini-game collection featuring characters from their franchises in new low-res model form, then I just don't know how well the game(s) they make would be received.  You look at the level of depth they put into their games with moral choices, character interaction, etc etc, and it starts becoming very clear VERY quickly that the Wii and DS just can't handle the things they want to do with games.

In the end, though...I put it like this:
  • Mark Rein came out two years ago and said someone was porting UE3 to the Wii and developing a game
  • Bethesda is supposed to be making a game for the Wii
  • Civilization Revolution was supposed to use a ported form of Gamebryo to be released on the Wii (but it got cancelled instead)
  • EA has said they plan to shift focus over to the Wii, yet all we've got to show for it (even though I'm psyched for it) is an on-rails shooter (because there aren't enough of them already)

Face it.  Nintendo has cornered themselves into a position where they have to cater to the casual market.  If they were to go back to the numbers that are pulled with 360 and PS3, they would go down quicker than my pants in front of a spread-eagle Megan Fox.

It's going to be interesting to see how Nintendo handles the next generation of hardware.  Will they cater more to the core gamers like they've promised for the last two consoles but didn't deliver on, or will they just continue to pump out shovelware for the people that want to try and connect with their kids in some way and feel young again by calling themselves "gamers"?  Sure, they gave us things like Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime, and a couple of other "core" games that pleased our appetites in some way.  However, have they delivered to the level that Microsoft and/or Sony has?
#18 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

Stop bringing up low budget niche titles as examples of how core games don't sell on platform X... WaW's shoddy port sold a million units, Okami sold a quarter of a million (more than PS2), RE4's port sold over a million, there are many examples. No More Heroes is Suda's most succesful game hence the sequel, MadWorld is by the developers of Godhand and that sold shit on PS2, etc. As for GTA DS, it's been selling from what I've seen. The budget wasn't anywhere near the past GTA games, so why should/would it sell as much? Not to mention GTA fans wouldn't be eager to jump back in the top down view. There are many more factors to consider than a closed minded bias over the particular platforms the games appeared on. And why do you keep talking about third party games then come up with a result for Nintendo's attitude? They're independent of each other, you know. Why do you also forget the many, many core titles coming to the Wii? S&P2? Silent Hill? Tales of Graces? Dragon Quest X? Monster Hunter 3? Cursed Mountain? The Crystal Bearers? Tatsunoko vs Capcom? Like them or not, they're core titles (some of them HUGE depending on the region), among many others. Not to mention titles that appeal to both casual and core gamers equally, there's plenty of those as well. So, please... Maybe they won't sell to your superior standards, but the fact is, more keep coming or are announced all the time, so obviously overall they sell to someone's standards, no matter how many examples of "bombs" you mention (I can probably mention just as many on "core" platforms like the PS2 or even ALL last gen platforms considering the likes of Psychonauts and BG&E).

#19 Posted by Out_On_Bail (1549 posts) -
@Al3xand3r: not to pick apart your response, but a game doesn't need a huge budget to be a huge success.  I did read the whole thing, but that should be corrected (in my humble opinion)  Look at Braid, Portal, Castle Crashers.  Those game's were not mega-expensive to create, but their success far surpassed that of some 'big budget' games.

Again, I'm not trolling your post, just felt that what you said was incorrect.
#20 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

Nothing I say implies low budget games can't sell, ever. I was just discussing the situation. Maybe GTA DS sold less than you'd expect, but that doesn't mean it wasn't profitable and in a sense succesful. The budget wasn't the only factor I mentioned. I've brought up the example of World of Goo tons of times in the past myself (60% of its sales on the Wii, 40% on PC). There's nothing to correct. The games you mention, except Portal, are considered succesful for indie games. I doubt they sold a million units but perhaps I'm wrong, though articles like this one imply otherwise. They only really reinforce what I tried to say, like Suda's No More Heroes being succesful despite the low numbers. Why? Because you compare it to the numbers of his other games, not to the numbers of GTA. Just as you compare Braid to the numbers of other indie games, not to GTA.

#21 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -
"exploration, progression, customization, conflict, story, narrative, and characters"

I like that. Make it happen.
#22 Posted by Out_On_Bail (1549 posts) -

That's a good point al3xand3r, I may of read too deep into that 1 single sentence.  



#23 Posted by carlthenimrod (1599 posts) -

The type of games that Bioware makes just won't sell to the audience of the Wii. So I wouldn't expect a Mass Effect or Dragon Age for the Wii anytime soon.

#24 Edited by jakob187 (21759 posts) -
@Al3xand3r said:
" Stop bringing up niche titles as examples of how core games don't sell on platform X... WaW sold a million units, Okami sold a quarter of a million (more than on the PS2), RE4 sold over a million, and there are many other examples. No More Heroes is Suda's most succesful game hence the sequel, MadWorld is by the developers of Godhand and that sold shit on PS2, etc. As for GTA DS, it's been selling from what I've seen. The budget wasn't anywhere near the past GTA games, so why would it sell as much? Not to mention GTA fans wouldn't be eager to jump back in the top down view after all the 3D titles. There are many more factors to consider than a closed minded bias over the particular platforms the games appeared on. "
Why is it that you think I hate the platforms?  Given that the Wii is the ONLY CONSOLE I BOUGHT FROM THIS GENERATION...and I'm a self-professed fan of Elebits, De Blob, Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Okami, and much much much more on that console, I'm just take it that you are making a wide generalization that I like to hate on the console or something rather than being someone who feels bad for the console being unrecognized by THE PEOPLE WHO BUY THE CONSOLE!

I can argue sales numbers 'til I'm blue in the face, but in the end, "core" gaming on the Wii has proven time and time again to be a less-than-fruitful endeavor for developers.  You are seriously trying to tell me, sell me, and convince me on the fact that 1 million units sold on a console that has sold 50 MILLION UNITS is a worthwhile argument?  Should I sell you on the fact that an ORIGINAL IP  like Lost Planet (pre-Colonies) sold 1.7 million copies on a console that has only sold 30 MILLION UNITS?

I understand that you have this need to stick up for The Big N on a regular basis because you think people are trying to attack the console.  I'm in no way attacking the CONSOLE.  I LIKE THE WII, PERIOD!!!  I'm attacking the PEOPLE BUYING THEM!  The reason the core games aren't selling on the console is because core gamers are few and far between in the target audience at this point.  I would love more core games on the Wii, and I'm sure BioWare would make a pretty killer game (I point at KOTOR and Jade Empire as prime examples of their excellence with specs close to the Wii).  However, it begs the question of whether the venture would be worthwhile for them, as other companies putting core games on the console have found that it usually leads to lackluster sales.  It would also depend on if they were using someone else's license, like they did with Sonic Chronicles...which for BioWare, it was basically a failure.

As for those "niche titles"...I'm sorry that I mentioned Madworld, a game that was getting TONS of hype for being the game that will bring "core" gamers onto the Wii finally.  I'm also sorry that "core" gamers responded so far with 220,000 in unit sales for the game, far below the expected sales.  Also, you pointed out that Madworld is by the developers of God Hand, right?  Well, that also happens to be the producer of MEGA MAN 1-8 as well as a game written by Yasumi Matsuno, best known as the director of Final Fantasy XII, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Vagrant Story.  I'm pretty sure that Mega Man and the Final Fantasy games that Matsuno worked on sold pretty damn good.  = D

I'm sorry, but BioWare needs to stick with what they do best.  Nintendo needs to wait until next gen to start pushing hard on "core" gaming again, because the Wii and DS already have impressions in people's heads that you CANNOT erase.

*EDIT*  GTA: Chinatown Wars has sold 550,000 copies on DS, last I checked.  Liberty City Stories sold almost 6 million on the PSP.

Also, you updated your post a lot from when I was writing MY reply, so to simply address the rest of what you said:  yeah, the Wii has "core" games coming out...but it doesn't mean they'll sell well at all for the developers to want to offer continued support.  If they do, cool.  Either way, I've got some new games to jam on.
#25 Posted by Mikemcn (7018 posts) -

If Bioware makes an RPG for the wii, thats awesome

If Bioware makes a Final Fantasy style RPG with spiky hair, screw them, i hate those and those are the only ones you can get on wii........

But im hopeful

#26 Edited by Linkyshinks (9880 posts) -
@Venatio said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes... "

Of course they do, because their developed for those consoles : /. WIi development on the other hand requires developers to work from the ground up.

Contribute to them, you mean those games : ?, or them as a company : /   IR controls.



#27 Posted by Mikemcn (7018 posts) -
@Linkyshinks said:
"@Venatio said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes... "
Of course they do, because their developed for those consoles : /. WIi development on the other hand requires developers to work from the ground up. IR controls."

Also, what the hell have the Xbox and Playstation contributed to Bioware games? Graphics? Ya thats what makes a Bioware game, the number of polygons (Thats sarcasm by the way.)
#28 Posted by jakob187 (21759 posts) -
@Linkyshinks said:
" @Venatio said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes... "
Of course they do, because their developed for those consoles : /. WIi development on the other hand requires developers to work from the ground up. IR controls. "
I think we should also point out to Venatio that BioWare made games on the Xbox...so it's not like they don't know how to work with the specs of the Wii to create a massive game of immersive quality.

The real problem is simply that "core" games don't sell on the Wii, so why bother making them on there?  Even World at War's shoddy ass port simply funded back the budget that was spent making it.
#29 Posted by Mikemcn (7018 posts) -
@jakob187 said:
"@Linkyshinks said:
" @Venatio said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes... "
Of course they do, because their developed for those consoles : /. WIi development on the other hand requires developers to work from the ground up. IR controls. "
I think we should also point out to Venatio that BioWare made games on the Xbox...so it's not like they don't know how to work with the specs of the Wii to create a massive game of immersive quality.

The real problem is simply that "core" games don't sell on the Wii, so why bother making them on there?  Even World at War's shoddy ass port simply funded back the budget that was spent making it.
"

I would argue there hasn't been a "core game" on the wii that people have actually been excited for other then the first party titles, you cannot argue that a core game will never sell on wii because there havent really been any real ones, have there?

Oh and how many WAW games actually sold for wii???? Ive been wondering
#30 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -
@jakob187 said:
" @Linkyshinks said:
" @Venatio said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes... "
Of course they do, because their developed for those consoles : /. WIi development on the other hand requires developers to work from the ground up. IR controls. "
I think we should also point out to Venatio that BioWare made games on the Xbox...so it's not like they don't know how to work with the specs of the Wii to create a massive game of immersive quality.

The real problem is simply that "core" games don't sell on the Wii, so why bother making them on there?  Even World at War's shoddy ass port simply funded back the budget that was spent making it.
"
I don't believe from what I read that World at War was a shoddy port. It was pretty well received and it sold over a million copies. At 50 bucks a pop that's some pretty good change.
#31 Edited by jakob187 (21759 posts) -
@Mikemcn said:
" @jakob187 said:
"I  think we should also point out to Venatio that BioWare made games on the Xbox...so it's not like they don't know how to work with the specs of the Wii to create a massive game of immersive quality.

The real problem is simply that "core" games don't sell on the Wii, so why bother making them on there?  Even World at War's shoddy ass port simply funded back the budget that was spent making it."
I would argue there hasn't been a "core game" on the wii that people have actually been excited for other then the first party titles, you cannot argue that a core game will never sell on wii because there havent really been any real ones, have there?Oh and how many WAW games actually sold for wii???? Ive been wondering "
W@W sold at least a million units.  Nonetheless, there have been quite a few "core" games that people have hyped up.  Three prime suspects are Okami's re-release, Madworld, and The Conduit.  The Conduit hasn't been released yet, so can't really comment on it much (other than the reviews that have surfaced saying the game is an average shooter at best).  Madworld has sold about 220,000 copies to date, while Okami has broken the 250,000 mark.  Regardless, as I was trying to explain to Alexander:

220,000 copies out of 50 million consoles does NOT = good

If anything, it tells me that "core" games have little to no place on the Wii other than to pacify the Nintendo fanboys that are still sticking around for the console and trying to defend its name.  I love the Wii personally, and I've enjoyed a ton of the games it's had to offer, including titles that I shouldn't like but do (again, I scream ELEBITS).

Meanwhile, Nintendo's first-party games will obviously do good because the only one that really shook things up this time around was Super Mario Galaxy, and that game was pretty fucking brilliant in terms of level design.  Otherwise, you have Metroid Prime 3: Rehash and The Legend of Zelda: Rehash Princess.  Oh, and don't forget Super Smash Bros. Rehash.  Fact is that Nintendo just keeps pulling a Madden with their main franchises, although I still think that Galaxy was enough of a change to warrant the long overdue return of everyone's favorite Italian plumber.

@Claude:  I've been a strong defender for World at War on 360 at least, but on the Wii...no.  No.  NO NO NO.  You know how World at War is basically a mod of CoD4?  Well...World at War on Wii is basically a visually upgraded mod of Call of Duty 3 on Wii.  While I've also defended CoD3 on Wii quite a bit as well, the Wii version of World at War was also glitchy as Hell.  A lot of reviewers didn't catch all this when they first got a hold of the game, but as time has passed, people have seen the truth.  =  /
#32 Edited by Linkyshinks (9880 posts) -
@Mikemcn said:
" @Linkyshinks said:
"@Venatio said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Venatio said:
" Are they gonna start focusing on the Wii now, that fucking sucks, their mostly great games belong on the 360, PS3 or PCThe Wii would ruin everything, I would fucking hate Bioware if they did this "
Right, because it is the hardware that makes the developer great, not the creative prowess of the team.  With EA shifting half its focus to the Wii, it really isn't that surprising. "
All the people at Bioware are great developers but the types of games they make are a much better fit for the platforms I mentioned, what could the Wii possibly contribute for them?And yeah, I dont care if EA is shifting developement for the Wii and making crappy games to capitalize on its huge succes... "
Of course they do, because their developed for those consoles : /. WIi development on the other hand requires developers to work from the ground up. IR controls."
Also, what the hell have the Xbox and Playstation contributed to Bioware games? Graphics? Ya thats what makes a Bioware game, the number of polygons (Thats sarcasm by the way.) "

Nothing, even the PC games are better on that front now, all PC games have been considerably better for me, that's where their true skill lies, developing on PC.

If Bioware made a RTS adventure on Wii with their understanding and ability, I would certainly buy it as a Bioware fan. What I would want however is something uniquely Wii, something that recognizes the fact it's pointless attempting a style of demanding graphics which mean sacrifices need to be made elsewhere. Instead, I would one a cohesive artstyle that is sufficient enough to warrant me saying, that looks cool.

For Bioware, it will give them the opportunity to devise streamlined gameplay for a RTS / RPG on console, like others are starting to do on Wii. It will give them the chance to experiment a little with interfaces, and the players manipulation of it. For instance, the very idea of casting a spells and moves without any selection prior is exciting to a developer such as Bioware, Motion and IR Control could bring that about easily. Players could see something take place on screen and then instantly act upon it with a gesture, not waggle. The chance to add true finesse to casting spells increases also. The developer now if they so wished, with Motion Plus, could add a level of skill which could be reflected on screen in real-time.



#33 Edited by Al3xand3r (7574 posts) -

Hey jakob, nice post bro, now re-read my last comment here as it has already addressed everything you had to say, because you simply repeated yourself without really confronting anything I said. Here, I'll help you:

@Al3xand3r said:

" Stop bringing up low budget niche titles as examples of how core games don't sell on platform X... WaW's shoddy port sold a million units, Okami sold a quarter of a million (more than PS2), RE4's port sold over a million, there are many examples. No More Heroes is Suda's most succesful game hence the sequel, MadWorld is by the developers of Godhand and that sold shit on PS2, etc. As for GTA DS, it's been selling from what I've seen. The budget wasn't anywhere near the past GTA games, so why should/would it sell as much? Not to mention GTA fans wouldn't be eager to jump back in the top down view. There are many more factors to consider than a closed minded bias over the particular platforms the games appeared on. And why do you keep talking about third party games then come up with a result for Nintendo's attitude? They're independent of each other, you know. Why do you also forget the many, many core titles coming to the Wii? S&P2? Silent Hill? Tales of Graces? Dragon Quest X? Monster Hunter 3? Cursed Mountain? The Crystal Bearers? Tatsunoko vs Capcom? Like them or not, they're core titles (some of them HUGE depending on the region), among many others. Not to mention titles that appeal to both casual and core gamers equally, there's plenty of those as well. So, please... Maybe they won't sell to your superior standards, but the fact is, more keep coming or are announced all the time, so obviously overall they sell to someone's standards, no matter how many examples of "bombs" you mention (I can probably mention just as many on "core" platforms like the PS2 or even ALL last gen platforms considering the likes of Psychonauts and BG&E). "
And I don't care how many times you say you love the Wii. How is that suddenly a valid point? I didn't even say you hate it. I said your views show a bias. Whether that's because you hate it or because you can't help but have a warped view of things makes no difference.

You just ignored 80% of my post and repeated yourself to confront the other 20% that is all. Okami sold better on Wii than on PS2. How is this game suddenly showing Wii is shit for core games due to its 50 million units, but didn't show PS2 is shit for core games with its 135 million units? The same for MadWorld. How much did Godhand sell on PS2? Do you know who made it? Clover, now known as Platinum Games, the developers of MadWorld. They simply have a history of making niche games that don't sell. Okami and Godhand and MadWorld are all by them. As for the hype, who the fuck cares what some game journalists (lol laugh) decided to hype just because it was bloody, it's not the first time they're wrong and it's been clear they don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. MadWorld is still a niche title, it's fucking black and white, it's ultra violent, and I dare say it's not even half as fun as No More Heroes, another niche title that did well enough to warrant a sequel, on the Wii, regardless of meeting your superior sales standards or not. I mean, shit, the developer is happy enough with the profits to make a Wii sequel, you supposdelly love the Wii, yet here you are saying it shouldn't get core games because they don't meet your sales standards.

Do you even know what Sony considered "Greatest Hits" for the PlayStation 2, despite its incredible success that was on par with the Wii at the time? Titles that sold just 400,000 units in over 9 months of sales. If that's a "greatest hit" then surely half that is respectable, less may be profitable, despite not meeting a large percentage of market penetration. And thanks for the GTA data, not that I see how DS discussion fits in Wii points but whatever. Over half a million units is great in my (and apparently Sony's) book, and I'm sure it's great in Rockstar's book considering the budget, and it's certainly not the bomb people rushed to claim because of its first day sales. Thanks for setting that straight.

There are a few main points here. 1, games often don't sell bad as people think, regardless of the actual numbers, considering they get sequels or establish that developer's support. 2, you can't compare a franchise like Rockstar's GTA, to a nobody's low-budget effort like MadWorld. 3, there are almost no examples of big established IPs on the Wii (the few there are, like a mere port of RE4, or the dodgy port of WaW actually show positive results), except for Nintendo's own, and those do sell well. 4, as my examples of upcoming games show, certain developers that probably know better than most, better than me, better than you, kickstarted major support for the Wii. Namco, Square, CAPCOM, all providing major franchises and then some. They're not suicidal, don't watch out for them.

In short, again, core games keep coming to the Wii, new IPs, gigantic established franchises, niches, and pretty much anything you can think of (though currently it's restricted to mostly Eastern developers, the West is slowly but surely following as usual). What's it to anyone else if they sell or don't sell to their own perceived standards if they keep getting created? I was as sad as anyone else when Okami or Beyond Good & Evil (multiplatform too!) didn't sell, but if they sell enough for a sequel or continued support from the same studio there's really nothing to argue no matter the numbers. The companies doing them aren't suicidal... Don't worry, be happy, etc. Just play the damn games. Arguing sales and trying to make industry wide conclusions about what should or shouldn't be done on teh internets is silly. So, yes, the Wii is getting core games, yes, many of them do sell enough, regardless of the actual percentage, and there's nothing more to say about that, other than simply enjoy them.
#34 Posted by Death_Unicorn (2838 posts) -

Does it matter? I'd buy it without a thought, but it still won't sell well...
I mean hey, I bought the Sonic RPG without a thought...

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