A manifesto regarding community

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Lies

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#1  Edited By Lies

GiantBomb is a community-oriented site with no real community. This is a fallacy, and we wish to fix it.

Now let's back up a bit. Having started off with that inflammatory statement, I'm betting tons of you are going: "WAIT! WE HAVE OVER 20,000 REGISTERED USERS! No community my ass, this guy's a retard". But this is the thing. We have forums and a wiki, no real community or sense of community. People coming in and posting in threads does not a community make. Disparate elements will never make a whole without the proper glue.

GiantBomb has a core community of perhaps twenty or thirty users, the IRC regulars and the BS regulars (Who have become somewhat the same recently). We chat with each other in the IRC, we do community podcasts, we do game nights and play on XBL, PSN, and Steam together. This whole post is coming out of a very lengthy discussion me, DualReaver, and TokyoChicken had while playing HALO (We went 1 for 19 in team slayer XD). Now this core community is great, and we like ourselves, but beyond that central group, there is a teeming mass of people who use the site regularly, but are not perhaps members of the wider community. This expanse posts on the forums perhaps, or lurks, but does not participate, or is not even aware, of this stronger community.

We wish to expand this core community of users to encompass, well, all of GiantBomb ideally, although that won't happen. At best perhaps, we want to raise awareness, and try to create a more cohesive GiantBomb community than the one that exists today. Perhaps some of you haven't noticed it, but despite claims that this site would be one huge community, quite the opposite has happened. We've fractured. The site is made up of several disparate elements that rarely interact or see eye-to-eye. Conflict has become commonplace, and what little area we have for community, the forums, has become filled with fighting and drama.

  1. The staff: Despite their goal of running a community site, they are rarely seen here, and hardly participate beyond writing blog posts. There is almost zero interaction with the community. Maybe they're busy, I don't really want to call them out, but they are clearly not well-integrated into the community
  2. The Mods: This is the group of people that enforces order on the forums. However, often it seems their enforement of rules comes into conflict with the views of our next group. I ask you, if the mods actions are pissing off the very core community of GiantBomb, should they be taking these actions? Mods are supposed to look after the well being of the community, not actively hinder it.
  3. The "Core" community: This would be the people whose views I am expressing. We are the IRC. We are the Bomb Squad. We are the people who power this site (If you'll excuse the hubris). We are the majority of the active members, and the ones who attempt to promote a feeling of real community and friendship among members. We feel some of the decisions made so far in this site's life have been detrimental to the overall health of the community, and we have suggestions to fix this. We have a true feeling of community among our members, but our ranks are thin, and the more people we can draw into this group, the more people will enjoy Giant Bomb.
  4. Everone else: All the other users who don't exactly fit explicitly into those groups. These are the people that we need to draw into the core group, into the Giant Bomb Expanded Universe, if you will. These guys enjoy the forums and wiki perhaps, but aren't aware of the full scope of the GB core community. If we can draw these guys into the core group, we think they'll have a much more enjoyable overall time at Giant Bomb than they were having before.
The community has segmented. The staff remains aloof and mysterious (Jeff Ryan, Brad, Vinny, we'd love to see you guys in the community gaming night or the IRC, like you used to), the mods act counter to any sense of community being built up, and the core community's attempts at outreach are muffled or ignored by everyone else.

Giant Bomb is a community-oriented site, but there is no cohesive community. Our suggestions are an attempt to fix this flaw.

In order to attract new members to the core community, it needs to be more visible. We try our best, but often it seems that the community threads sink, and sink quickly. Vaxdaxrin's Let's Play always gets a few posts, then is buried. Bombing Run is always the same few people every time. Bomb Should Have a Face has come under fire for being "self-serving", when they actively invite anyone on their show. Now this isn't a comdemnation of what is currently on the forums, I'm sure mods will know my opinion is quite the opposite ;) However, the community stuff needs to be promoted more and paid more attention to. The way to do this isn't by strangling all other sorts of discussion, it's by promoting this type of community stuff, and allowing the rest to run wild. After all, what good is a community-oriented site with no real community?

The IRC has been great to us, and we'd love more people to join in. Just hit up irc://irc.gamesurge.net/giantbomb and say hi. However, I can't exactly count on Joe Q. Public reading this thread. In fact, he's probably at the bottom of the page, wrting "tl;dr" right now.What we need is for people to actually check out these community efforts, and for a little help from the mods.

We've disagreed in the past, but I think we all want GiantBomb to grow into a prosperous community. But if all anyone ever uses is the boards, what separates us from NeoGAF then? Nothing. However, GiantBomb has the potential to be so much more than a forum if people would just try. As such, community outreach threads such as how to use the IRC, Bomb Should Have a Face podcasts, Bombing Run gaming nights, and other such things should be floated, at least temporarily by the moderators. This greatly enhances visibility, and will encourage community activity, suiting all sides. I don't think anyone can argue that improving the sense of community on GiantBomb is a bad thing.

Another such community venture would be a Ventrillo server, as we've found quality of discussion dramatically increases when you're actually talking in person. See the Bomb Should Have a Face podcasts and the community gaming nights (Fuzion Frenzy, best game ever). However, in order to properly host a ventrillo server, the hosting needs to be paid for. Having one hosted officially by the GiantBomb staff would be absurdly great, but having one is something that would greatly increase community, and the core users could probably do it from our own ingenuity, but having some official support would really be damn nice.

With no real incentive to be a community right now, GiantBomb will not grow. Eventually, the core users will bleed away, and no new ones will come. Simply by furthering the core community can we avoid this stagnation. As Abraham Lincoln once famously said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand". All we ask for is a bit of help in unifying this community, and we think we can make GiantBomb a truly special place.
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tokyochicken

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#2  Edited By tokyochicken

Really all we want to do is have alot more cool stuff for the community so we can be just more than a forunm. I mean right now were a small community and were all kinda scattered. If your in the irc you dont know whos on the forumns and vice versa. All we wana do is attract attention to some of these things were all trying to do to bring more cool stuff to the community.

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Black_Rose

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#3  Edited By Black_Rose

Wow man, that was a pretty amazing read. I don't even know what to say after that, you just collected every single problem this community has into a single post. The only thing i can say is that i agree with pretty much everything.

Another thing i'll like to add is that as both an IRC and BS regular i'll gladly welcome anyone to the groups.

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TheGTAvaccine

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#4  Edited By TheGTAvaccine

Great, great read. I completely agree, it'd be awesome to get more staff involvement, and more involvement by doodz and galz on the site.

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tokyochicken

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#5  Edited By tokyochicken

Hopefully enough we can gather a lil attention with this lol

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DualReaver

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#6  Edited By DualReaver

I really hope the staff and Mods take notice to this, I lost a lot of sleep last night. lol

Great job of summarizing the discussion Lies. It was a great read.

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Karmum

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#7  Edited By Karmum

I don't know many "core" users that are pissed off with the moderators, aside from the more obvious ones. I had never understood the hate against them, kind of is unfortunate for them because they get all these extremely unnecessary backlash for doing what they were told by the staff. They probably don't care, but some of the reasons users list to why they dislike certain moderators is ridiculous, to say the least, and at times hilarious.

The only thing I agree with those numbered statements is the first one, regarding staff. I would like to see them post a little more, but maybe that is just me.

I also love the irony of you and the IRC. I want to see if you can catch my drift with that, too. You probably won't, but that isn't the real point I'm trying to get across.

For the most part, I think the remaining suggestions you have are okay for the most part, or I simply don't agree with, I would like to see the staff more active in the forums, especially checking up in the Suggestions Topic. By not agreeing or thinking the suggestions are okay, I mean the numbered ones. I'm certainly all for community-based podcasts, and especially game-nights. That will certainly bring users to a community, and for the most part, into a full circle.

But, again, for the most part, it was certainly a great and interesting read, and there are some great ideas from your post.

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Shawn

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#8  Edited By Shawn

I approve of this movement.

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brukaoru

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#9  Edited By brukaoru

I totally agree with the fact that having a wiki and forums does not make a community. Those are just tools that have the potential to make a community.

I can't really blame the staff for not being involved more, I'm certain they are busy, but I do agree with the other suggestions you mentioned.

Conflict is certainly an issue here, although we all have our opinions, when mods are conflicted over a certain rule being enforced, it can lead to a lot of problems. Some mods will allow things that other mods will lock, there's no real way of knowing what you can and cannot post sometimes.

Great write-up Lies. :)

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danielkempster

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#10  Edited By danielkempster

A great read, Lies.

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I've been here since the launch, and a couple of months before when this site was just a blog. One thing I've really noticed since July is that, as you said, a lot of the community-oriented threads that promote interesting game-related discussion tend to struggle against the random Off-Topic stuff. The Let's Play threads are always welcome additions and I'd love to see more people getting involved with it. As for Bomb Should Have A Face, I've not checked it out yet, but I'll rectify that ASAP!

I wish I could get involved with the Bombing Runs, but there are two major problems. One: I'm not presently hooked up to LIVE, and two: I'm in the UK, and getting online at the same time as you guys would be really tough. I'd also love to get involved in the IRC, although the time difference issue once again comes into play. I'll do my best to get involved at some point, as I'd really like to see this site's sense of community expand well beyond the forums. Currently my only other outlet is my blog, which I'd like to think has some interesting things to say but doesn't reach many people.

Once again, great read. You can tell a lot of time and thought was put into this, and you've expressed the thoughts of the existing community really well. I hope this acts as a catalyst for further expanding that community.

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tokyochicken

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#11  Edited By tokyochicken
dankempster said:
"A great read, Lies.

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I've been here since the launch, and a couple of months before when this site was just a blog. One thing I've really noticed since July is that, as you said, a lot of the community-oriented threads that promote interesting game-related discussion tend to struggle against the random Off-Topic stuff. The Let's Play threads are always welcome additions and I'd love to see more people getting involved with it. As for Bomb Should Have A Face, I've not checked it out yet, but I'll rectify that ASAP!

I wish I could get involved with the Bombing Runs, but there are two major problems. One: I'm not presently hooked up to LIVE, and two: I'm in the UK, and getting online at the same time as you guys would be really tough. I'd also love to get involved in the IRC, although the time difference issue once again comes into play. I'll do my best to get involved at some point, as I'd really like to see this site's sense of community expand well beyond the forums. Currently my only other outlet is my blog, which I'd like to think has some interesting things to say but doesn't reach many people.

Once again, great read. You can tell a lot of time and thought was put into this, and you've expressed the thoughts of the existing community really well. I hope this acts as a catalyst for further expanding that community."
Ive noticed tons of uk people who cant make it for bombing run, hmm maybe bombing run UK?  Or maybe me and matt could work something out that fits for the uk people and us.
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Black_Rose

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#12  Edited By Black_Rose
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tokyochicken

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#13  Edited By tokyochicken
Black_Rose said:
"

 dankempster said:

"A great read, Lies.

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I've been here since the launch, and a couple of months before when this site was just a blog. One thing I've really noticed since July is that, as you said, a lot of the community-oriented threads that promote interesting game-related discussion tend to struggle against the random Off-Topic stuff. The Let's Play threads are always welcome additions and I'd love to see more people getting involved with it. As for Bomb Should Have A Face, I've not checked it out yet, but I'll rectify that ASAP!

I wish I could get involved with the Bombing Runs, but there are two major problems. One: I'm not presently hooked up to LIVE, and two: I'm in the UK, and getting online at the same time as you guys would be really tough. I'd also love to get involved in the IRC, although the time difference issue once again comes into play. I'll do my best to get involved at some point, as I'd really like to see this site's sense of community expand well beyond the forums. Currently my only other outlet is my blog, which I'd like to think has some interesting things to say but doesn't reach many people.

Once again, great read. You can tell a lot of time and thought was put into this, and you've expressed the thoughts of the existing community really well. I hope this acts as a catalyst for further expanding that community."

I wouldn't worry about the time issues there's a lot of people from the UK in the IRC

"
Ya we even have someone for korea, theres still people around.
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Thrawn1

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#14  Edited By Thrawn1

I think the only way this stuff could work is if it gets built into the actual structure of the site. Maybe we could all pm the staff, or start a petition thread, but we need some way of letting the staff know that we want community-based feature integrated into the site.

For example, they could set up a Bombing Run section. (it needs to be well organized) It needs to have sign-ups and stuff, something that will let everyone know in advance what events are happening.

Anyone else agree? What should we do?

EDIT: An organized community section will fix the time zone problems.

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Black_Rose

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#15  Edited By Black_Rose

Yeah it would be nice to have an official Bombing Run page, or a Community podcast page for that matter. 

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Arkthemaniac

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#16  Edited By Arkthemaniac
Thrawn said:
"I think the only way this stuff could work is if it gets built into the actual structure of the site. Maybe we could all pm the staff, or start a petition thread, but we need some way of letting the staff know that we want community-based feature integrated into the site.

For example, they could set up a Bombing Run section. (it needs to be well organized) It needs to have sign-ups and stuff, something that will let everyone know in advance what events are happening.

Anyone else agree? What should we do?"
Wow. We definitely need some kind of notification of Bombing Run......I didn't even know it existed until now, and I would like to participate.
A front page section would be awesome for this, since a Bombing Run sticky thread would most likely overflow and be ineffective. A new section for it seems the best option.
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tokyochicken

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#17  Edited By tokyochicken
Thrawn said:
"I think the only way this stuff could work is if it gets built into the actual structure of the site. Maybe we could all pm the staff, or start a petition thread, but we need some way of letting the staff know that we want community-based feature integrated into the site.

For example, they could set up a Bombing Run section. (it needs to be well organized) It needs to have sign-ups and stuff, something that will let everyone know in advance what events are happening.

Anyone else agree? What should we do?"
Thats one thing i suggested with matt is that we inform people on the BR earlier and we make it less hectic its definetly part of out plan. As for a section i wanted to talk to hamz or someone about a community thread where stuff like that and calns and such can go into. We need something to help organize all these threads.
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DualReaver

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#18  Edited By DualReaver
Thrawn said:
"I think the only way this stuff could work is if it gets built into the actual structure of the site. Maybe we could all pm the staff, or start a petition thread, but we need some way of letting the staff know that we want community-based feature integrated into the site.

For example, they could set up a Bombing Run section. (it needs to be well organized) It needs to have sign-ups and stuff, something that will let everyone know in advance what events are happening.

Anyone else agree? What should we do?

EDIT: An organized community section will fix the time zone problems."
Tokyo, me and Lies are hoping to talk to Hamz on skype or something about it later on and hopefully discuss ways of integrating it.
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Thrawn1

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#19  Edited By Thrawn1

I don't mean just a thread, but an actual part of giant bomb. Like on the front page, there  would be a link to a page where you could schedule and sing up for community events.

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tokyochicken

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#20  Edited By tokyochicken
Arkthemaniac said:
"Thrawn said:
"I think the only way this stuff could work is if it gets built into the actual structure of the site. Maybe we could all pm the staff, or start a petition thread, but we need some way of letting the staff know that we want community-based feature integrated into the site.

For example, they could set up a Bombing Run section. (it needs to be well organized) It needs to have sign-ups and stuff, something that will let everyone know in advance what events are happening.

Anyone else agree? What should we do?"
Wow. We definitely need some kind of notification of Bombing Run......I didn't even know it existed until now, and I would like to participate.
A front page section would be awesome for this, since a Bombing Run sticky thread would most likely overflow and be ineffective. A new section for it seems the best option.
"
like Dual reaver said we want to inform the higher ups on this stuff big time.
Thrawn said:
"I don't mean just a thread, but an actual part of giant bomb. Like on the front page, ther  would be a link to a page where you could schedule and sing up for community events."
That would be just as good if somehow we can get the attention for it is all we need
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brukaoru

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#21  Edited By brukaoru
Thrawn said:
"EDIT: An organized community section will fix the time zone problems."
Indeed. As Lies pointed out in his post, the community threads just get buried very quickly. A whole section devoted just to the community would help resolve that problem and be very awesome.
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Thrawn1

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#22  Edited By Thrawn1

so should we all email them or start a petition thread or what? any ideas?

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Karmum

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#23  Edited By Karmum
Thrawn said:
"I don't mean just a thread, but an actual part of giant bomb. Like on the front page, there  would be a link to a page where you could schedule and sing up for community events."
I suggested that in the suggestion topic not too long ago, and was told Steam had that. Which, in my opinion, does not concern me, since this is Giant Bomb, and obviously, not everybody has Steam.
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tokyochicken

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#24  Edited By tokyochicken
Thrawn said:
"so should we all email them or start a petition thread or what? any ideas?
"
Well me lies and DR wana  talk to hamz about gettign this stickied first, PMing the staff might be a good idea or a pettion thread but the problem is i'm not sure if we can get them to notice a PM or something.
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MattyFTM

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#25  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator

BS was part of the core community? BS was just an excuse for people to +1 their post count. I posted in it for a short while, before realizing it was just a bunch of people saying "hi, whats up", with a bit of spam mixed in 5,000 times before it gets locked and a new one gets created.

Personally I like just hanging out on the forums. IRC and other chat room type things have never appealed to me. With chat things I generally find by the time I've typed out what I want to say on a subject, the conversation has moved on to something else. On a forum there are individual threads containing individual discussions, so the discussion isn't going to move on before I post. Its just so much better. I am fully aware of the scope of the community, it just doesn't appeal to me.

And the community game night is too late for me, I'm in the UK, so its at like 2 or 3 in the morning here. I'd love to join in. I love community game nights, but I can't. And I do listen to, and enjoy the community podcast (infact the last time I checked I was the only person to have reviewed it on itunes).

And as far as I'm aware, that covers everything the community does. Forums, IRC, Game night, and podcast. And I think I'm doing everything I can do to take part in the community that appeals to me.

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Arkthemaniac

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#26  Edited By Arkthemaniac

Lets make 5000 topics saying "Bombing Run on front page!" That'll also get rid of the Off Topic issue!

*the above post is a joke*
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brukaoru

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#27  Edited By brukaoru
Thrawn said:
"so should we all email them or start a petition thread or what? any ideas?"
Maybe wait a bit and see how the talk with Hamz goes when Dual and TokyoChicken talk to him about ideas.

Karmum said:
"I suggested that in the suggestion topic not too long ago, and was told Steam had that. Which, in my opinion, does not concern me, since this is Giant Bomb, and obviously, not everybody has Steam."
Yeah, that's a pretty absurd suggestion. A good majority of people in GiantBomb are console gamers only.
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Black_Rose

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#28  Edited By Black_Rose
Thrawn said:
"so should we all email them or start a petition thread or what? any ideas?
"
Lies and Tokyo are going to talk to Hamz about the issue
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twenty0ne

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#29  Edited By twenty0ne

I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS.

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Karmum

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#30  Edited By Karmum
twenty0ne said:
"I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS."
You have got to be kidding me. Lets not turn this discussion into why that topic was dumped.
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Black_Rose

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#31  Edited By Black_Rose

I think today being sunday the staff won't notice this, the best way is too keep it sticked imo.

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Arkthemaniac

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#32  Edited By Arkthemaniac
twenty0ne said:
"I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS."
OFF TOPIC!!!!!!
OFF TOPIC!!!!!!




















Better to just let Off Topic not get to you, dude. It won't be changed for a while.
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crunchUK

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#33  Edited By crunchUK

i clicked on the IRC link and got an error message :s

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tokyochicken

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#34  Edited By tokyochicken
crunchUK said:
"i clicked on the IRC link and got an error message :s"
You need do download chatzilla  for that link to work
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brukaoru

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#35  Edited By brukaoru
crunchUK said:
"i clicked on the IRC link and got an error message :s"
Here is the best write up on how to get into the IRC.
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Lies

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#36  Edited By Lies
crunchUK said:
"i clicked on the IRC link and got an error message :s"
You'll need to install the ChatZilla client if you're using Firefox, if you're not it's a bit more complicated.
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DualReaver

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#37  Edited By DualReaver
Download.
There's the link to the download. It requires you to have Mozilla Firefox though.

Edit:
We are such nice people. =3
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danielkempster

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#38  Edited By danielkempster
Black_Rose said:
"I think today being sunday the staff won't notice this, the best way is too keep it sticked imo."
This is a good idea. Bringing this thread to the attention of the staff is the best way for us to get the point across, and stickying (?) it is a lot easier than keeping it bumped.
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twenty0ne

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#39  Edited By twenty0ne
Karmum said:
"twenty0ne said:
"I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS."
You have got to be kidding me. Lets not turn this discussion into why that topic was dumped."
Yes, I'm kidding you Karmum. I just wasted my time typing that post so you could find out I was kidding.
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Thrawn1

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#40  Edited By Thrawn1
crunchUK said:
"i clicked on the IRC link and got an error message :s"
so do you have a program to chat with? if you're using firefox, install chatzilla. then click on the link.
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tokyochicken

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#41  Edited By tokyochicken
twenty0ne said:
"Karmum said:
"twenty0ne said:
"I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS."
You have got to be kidding me. Lets not turn this discussion into why that topic was dumped."
Yes, I'm kidding you Karmum. I just wasted my time typing that post to tell you I was kidding."
Guys this isn't about that anymore, what we want to do is just bring something else to the table for giant bomb.
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DualReaver

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#42  Edited By DualReaver
twenty0ne said:
"Karmum said:
"twenty0ne said:
"I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS."
You have got to be kidding me. Lets not turn this discussion into why that topic was dumped."
Yes, I'm kidding you Karmum. I just wasted my time typing that post to tell you I was kidding."
The only relevence BS has to this thread, is as an example of the contrast between "our" ( I don't mean everyone on GiantBomb, so don't flame me) views of what GiantBomb's community should be, and what the Moderator's views on what the community should be.
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Black_Rose

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#43  Edited By Black_Rose

Let's not turn this into a BS hate/love thread please.

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Karmum

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#44  Edited By Karmum
tokyochicken said:
"twenty0ne said:
"Karmum said:
"twenty0ne said:
"I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS."
You have got to be kidding me. Lets not turn this discussion into why that topic was dumped."
Yes, I'm kidding you Karmum. I just wasted my time typing that post to tell you I was kidding."
Guys this isn't about that anymore, what we want to do is just bring something else to the table for giant bomb."
I know that, all I said was that he should not attempt to make this discussion about that topic. He clearly does not.
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Shawn

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#45  Edited By Shawn
Karmum said:
"twenty0ne said:
"I agree for the most part. Our Off-Topic board has no personality or sense of community now without BS."
You have got to be kidding me. Lets not turn this discussion into why that topic was dumped."
It's not, that was just his observation. Which I agree with, and it is pretty obvious that OT is pretty empty without it. I'm not going to complain over why it was locked. I'm just pointing out what it's done to the community.
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HandsomeDead

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#46  Edited By HandsomeDead
tokyochicken said:
"dankempster said:
"A great read, Lies.

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I've been here since the launch, and a couple of months before when this site was just a blog. One thing I've really noticed since July is that, as you said, a lot of the community-oriented threads that promote interesting game-related discussion tend to struggle against the random Off-Topic stuff. The Let's Play threads are always welcome additions and I'd love to see more people getting involved with it. As for Bomb Should Have A Face, I've not checked it out yet, but I'll rectify that ASAP!

I wish I could get involved with the Bombing Runs, but there are two major problems. One: I'm not presently hooked up to LIVE, and two: I'm in the UK, and getting online at the same time as you guys would be really tough. I'd also love to get involved in the IRC, although the time difference issue once again comes into play. I'll do my best to get involved at some point, as I'd really like to see this site's sense of community expand well beyond the forums. Currently my only other outlet is my blog, which I'd like to think has some interesting things to say but doesn't reach many people.

Once again, great read. You can tell a lot of time and thought was put into this, and you've expressed the thoughts of the existing community really well. I hope this acts as a catalyst for further expanding that community."
Ive noticed tons of uk people who cant make it for bombing run, hmm maybe bombing run UK?  Or maybe me and matt could work something out that fits for the uk people and us."
I do think this is a good idea. While i'm savvy with playing something at 1:30am, a lot of people in the UK and elsewhere in Europe aren't, so I presume a lot of people may be feeling left out.

Also, related. I've never been into IRC or whatever, but I like to think hanging around the forums and just posting with a bit of personality is enough to help develop a community. Not that i'm saying IRCs and what have you are bad, but i've been on plenty of forums that never had the stuff on here and that had enough of a community spirit because people gave more than one word replies and actually started talking to each other, even if it was argueing with each other. I'm probably ramblng and sounding a bit preachy but still, I like to think I have a point.
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tokyochicken

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#47  Edited By tokyochicken

I pmed hamz about this thread maybe we can get more attention to this and see if this will go well.

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Black_Rose

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#48  Edited By Black_Rose

IRC is just for casual chat.

I do think BR UK is a great idea though

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tokyochicken

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#49  Edited By tokyochicken

ya itd be nice to be able to inclue everyone there seems to be a big UK following here

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brukaoru

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#50  Edited By brukaoru
tokyochicken said:
"I pmed hamz about this thread maybe we can get more attention to this and see if this will go well."
I hope him and other mods respond to this thread, it would be great to know their opinions on the matter.