Build a Good Menu for my RPGs Please!

In some rpgs, if you go deep into the system and want to make the most of your abilities, you're going to spend a decent amount of times in the menus.  That being said, some developers just haven't learned how to make a good menu.  Here, I present you with the worst rpg menu this generation.


-Yea pipboy, you are cool and all, but you suck.  You have the main sections that feel like huge flips, multiple pages within those, and then an amount of scrolling to be done on those pages.  You're just not laid out well.  In truth however, you are the Oblivion interface.  Why did I not put that instead?  Well, although you look awesome in white, you also suffer from glitches.  Why are you sometimes stuck in a bright mode where I can't read anything?  Come on now. 
-Another bad menu is Infinite Undiscovery's for a different reason that being you can't pause the game to go into it.  Yea, cool in theory for everything to be real time, but it makes me want to avoid it altogether.  It's not really flawed, nor is it good, but it just should be designed differently
- and my final example of a bad menu will go to fable 2 at its launch.  No, it's not really to do with your organization, but it shouldn't honestly lag while scrolling through menus, just no.  It's been fixed, so I can't hold a grudge, but this is just a big no-no.  Same goes with loading to access the menu.

Here's some good menus from this generation in rpgs:


Besides being super sleek looking, notice how everything is in view and easily laid out. While item lists are impossible to not scroll through, things like
accessory slots/ active weapon, etc. should not be in a scrolling list (think oblivion ).  It should all be laid out and once you click on it you should be given the list of equipable items.
And no, when I click on a weapon slot you should not give me the option of accessories only to say "unequippable" when I click you.  Wrong.  Those go in their respective item listing section. 




I think SO4 might fail in this part (not sure- don't have it, don't have screens/videos to prove yes or no).  Whenever you equip something that changes multiple stats, you should always have a comparison chart.  You should be able to see the stats you have in your current state and when highlights the oither should show the changes with a color code- doesn't matter what though. And the no effect doesn't have to be white either.  The key point is that you should be aware of changes being made easily.


Also, notice the top bar.   Notice how it describes some of the key stats.  Time played, gold, metal, and location. This isn't fitting for every game, but general important info should be easily displayed. 

Hope you actually read it, but if you just looked at the pretty menu pictures, that's fine too.  Comments would be appreciated.

In some rpgs, if you go deep into the system and want to make the most of your abilities, you're going to spend a decent amount of times in the menus.  That being said, some developers just haven't learned how to make a good menu.  Here, I present you with the worst rpg menu this generation.


-Yea pipboy, you are cool and all, but you suck.  You have the main sections that feel like huge flips, multiple pages within those, and then an amount of scrolling to be done on those pages.  You're just not laid out well.  In truth however, you are the Oblivion interface.  Why did I not put that instead?  Well, although you look awesome in white, you also suffer from glitches.  Why are you sometimes stuck in a bright mode where I can't read anything?  Come on now. 
-Another bad menu is Infinite Undiscovery's for a different reason that being you can't pause the game to go into it.  Yea, cool in theory for everything to be real time, but it makes me want to avoid it altogether.  It's not really flawed, nor is it good, but it just should be designed differently
- and my final example of a bad menu will go to fable 2 at its launch.  No, it's not really to do with your organization, but it shouldn't honestly lag while scrolling through menus, just no.  It's been fixed, so I can't hold a grudge, but this is just a big no-no.  Same goes with loading to access the menu.

Here's some good menus from this generation in rpgs:


Besides being super sleek looking, notice how everything is in view and easily laid out. While item lists are impossible to not scroll through, things like
accessory slots/ active weapon, etc. should not be in a scrolling list (think oblivion ).  It should all be laid out and once you click on it you should be given the list of equipable items.
And no, when I click on a weapon slot you should not give me the option of accessories only to say "unequippable" when I click you.  Wrong.  Those go in their respective item listing section. 




I think SO4 might fail in this part (not sure- don't have it, don't have screens/videos to prove yes or no).  Whenever you equip something that changes multiple stats, you should always have a comparison chart.  You should be able to see the stats you have in your current state and when highlights the oither should show the changes with a color code- doesn't matter what though. And the no effect doesn't have to be white either.  The key point is that you should be aware of changes being made easily.


Also, notice the top bar.   Notice how it describes some of the key stats.  Time played, gold, metal, and location. This isn't fitting for every game, but general important info should be easily displayed. 

Hope you actually read it, but if you just looked at the pretty menu pictures, that's fine too.  Comments would be appreciated.

The Pipboy menu is great. I don't know what you're smoking.

FANBOY ALERT!  FANBOY ALERT!!!  Also, the Pipboy was excellent.  Sounds like you're just prejudice.

"The Pipboy menu is great. I don't know what you're smoking."

"I honestly don't know why you'd defend this menu system.  Did you honestly not ever have a problem scrolling all the way down for a weapon in this heap of mess?"

The Too Human menu was worse than Fallout 3's.

So jayge, you didn't see anything that could be improved in this interface?  wow.
do you just disagree with me or what? 

Did you not find the lighting glitches to be a problem either?  Those enhanced the game I take it? 

"The Too Human menu was worse than Fallout 3's."

"So jayge, you didn't see anything that could be improved in this interface?  wow.
do you just disagree with me or what? 

Did you not find the lighting glitches to be a problem either?  Those enhanced the game I take it? "

"The Too Human menu was worse than Fallout 3's."

"Here's some good menus from this generation in rpgs:

"

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"Here's some good menus from this generation in rpgs:

"

I don't even know what I'm looking at. Are those items selectable? Which ones? And how are you supposed to navigate it?

I really don't see the advantage here."

Okay, yeah. It seems you can't actually equip / unequip stuff from this menu. I think that's actually kind of confusing, since you can see exactly what they're wearing, but not modify it.

"LordAndrew said:

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"Here's some good menus from this generation in rpgs:

"

I don't even know what I'm looking at. Are those items selectable? Which ones? And how are you supposed to navigate it?

I really don't see the advantage here."

I'm pretty sure he used a stationary character stat display as an example of a good and easily traversed menu."

"
no, it's the fact of displaying everything straight up and easily. It's not cluttered but it tells you a load of crap- all your equiped things, your magic stones? (dunno), and all your stats and leveling info.
think about how many lists that'd be in fallout (the equivelants).  Equipped items (big list with dots for equipped), armor (list with dot), skill traits, the main skill points, and another menu, front page for your numerical health, another page for your leveling info. 

"

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"So jayge, you didn't see anything that could be improved in this interface?  wow.
do you just disagree with me or what? 

Did you not find the lighting glitches to be a problem either?  Those enhanced the game I take it? "

I got the lighting glitch twice in over 95 hours of playtime. It was less than a non-issue for me. I just couldn't care less about it. Sure things could be improved about the Fallout interface (no interface is perfect). Does that mean the Fallout interface was bad at all? No."

Pipboy was fine. You were playing it on the 360, so using buttons to flip through the screens might have something to do with it. Works much better with a mouse.

Although I do agree that some interfaces try too hard to be aesthetic and end up being clunky, a good example of an interface I like in a (semi-)RPG is STALKER. They fucked it up in Clear Sky by trying to make it 'intuitive' and by marking out EVERYTHING(mutants, bandits, you name it) on your minimap ahead of time.

^they aren't that big of a deal, but wouldn't you agree that they could make it so much easier?  While I'm sure you don't spend much times in the menus because no offense, but by the way you post/ the games you say you play, you seem like the type of person who would have those skill points and not realize you have to equip them (think kotor), there's no reason I should have to scroll through lists of items to do something. 

I do spend quite some times in the meus at times, and I've just been finding that I so wish I could rearrange the design of some to make what I'm doing so much quicker.  More often than not though this happens in JRPGs though, but in fallout for example, combing guns could be much easier.  They could just list each type of gun and put   xquantity  and then once you go on that to the right would appear each's gun with their health bar.  This'd help especially with scrolling through the list.

"Jayge said:

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"So jayge, you didn't see anything that could be improved in this interface?  wow.
do you just disagree with me or what? 

Did you not find the lighting glitches to be a problem either?  Those enhanced the game I take it? "

I got the lighting glitch twice in over 95 hours of playtime. It was less than a non-issue for me. I just couldn't care less about it. Sure things could be improved about the Fallout interface (no interface is perfect). Does that mean the Fallout interface was bad at all? No."

Same here. I thought the Pipboy was one of the coolest menus in a video game ever."

"Jayge said:

"The Pipboy menu is great. I don't know what you're smoking."

it's great from an aesthetic design standpoint, but it fails in many areas.
1) obvious glitches
2) equipping- your equipped weapon is on a list among other weapons.  It should have a section that shows your weapons,etc. and then once you click on that a new column should pop up and give you the options.  You should go equipped weapon--> weapon type--> weapon
3) weirdness- i heal myself through the body menu for some things but I apply other stuff through the item section?
4) last page-- that's just random stuff.   It really is placed randomly
5) convultedness- they could have honestly have condensed these menus and been more into, as I said with #2, organizing these things within categories.

I honestly don't know why you'd defend this menu system.  Did you honestly not ever have a problem scrolling all the way down for a weapon in this heap of mess?
Also, Oblivion should have stuck with Morrowind's pictoral interface on the pc, why the hell didn't they?  Retarded."

"

^they aren't that big of a deal, but wouldn't you agree that they could make it so much easier?  While I'm sure you don't spend much times in the menus because no offense, but by the way you post/ the games you say you play, you seem like the type of person who would have those skill points and not realize you have to equip them (think kotor), there's no reason I should have to scroll through lists of items to do something. 

I do spend quite some times in the meus at times, and I've just been finding that I so wish I could rearrange the design of some to make what I'm doing so much quicker.  More often than not though this happens in JRPGs though, but in fallout for example, combing guns could be much easier.  They could just list each type of gun and put   xquantity  and then once you go on that to the right would appear each's gun with their health bar.  This'd help especially with scrolling through the list.

"

I always thought complaining about interface unless it seriously hampers your playtime is kinda nitpicky. The only interface that I've hated and have held against a game is Mass Effect's, due to when you break down items, it sends you to the top of the list of items every time, but the weak items are at the bottom of the list, so you have to keep scrolling down over and over and over. That sucked.

"(no interface is perfect)"

^i was talking to jayge about the skill points actually...lulz.
making jayge hate me, 1 more step at a time.

I also have a problem with assigning skill points, but that's a different story...mostly to do with my indecisiveness ):

Really?  Pip boy the worst?  It "sucks."  Are you serious.  Pip boy is very adequate at doing all the things you want to do in fallout 3 and more.  You can do anything you want reasonably fast.  There is always going to be some clutter if you have a lot of items but that is true about any menu system.  Maybe a few more organization options could have been implemented but Pip boy was more than capable to do want you wanted to do.

On a different note, I thought the menu system of TWEWY was very good.  A bad rpg menu would be the one found in Mass Effect.  I don't know if I would call it the worst because I am just not going to say that.

"5) convultedness- they could have honestly have condensed these menus and been more into, as I said with #2, organizing these things within categories. "

Smug, don't ever use the word "convolutedness" again in DEFENSE of JRPGs. 

The only real problem I had with Fallout 3's UI is the same one I had with Oblivion- it was designed to be read from halfway across the room. Once you get a mod that reduces the size of the text it's much better.

"Jayge said: Your equipped item is marked with a little square on the side.  All it takes it 1/4 of a brain to screw that one up.  Do you honestly need a filter to tell you that "Combat Shotgun" is a shotgun?  On top of which, there shouldn't really be much of a reason to carry more than four guns on you at any time, or whatever your specialty is (melee, energy weapons, etc).  If you are an expert in energy weapons, then why the fuck would you even HAVE a shotgun?  lol  Meanwhile, JRPGs want you to have everything on your person at any given time, and these skinny androgynous punks are able to carry ALL of that shit around with no problem?  What, they have a mule and a wagon behind them hauling it around?!  lol  Then again, I guess you could argue about how a character in F3 is able to carry 6 Chinese Assault Rifles, 2 Laser Rifles, 3 Sledgehammers, 2 Magnums, a Sniper Rifle, a Power Fist, a set of Power Armor, and 9 other sets of armor all at the same time...so it's whatever.  Regardless, the itemization menu works just fine.

 

 There is always going to be some clutter if you have a lot of items but that is true about any menu system. 

"Discorsi said:

 There is always going to be some clutter if you have a lot of items but that is true about any menu system. 

"we're not talking about being able to go through it, we're talking about going through it with speed.  It's like having a huge blog with articles vs. and index with links to each article."

"jakob187 said:

"Jayge said: Your equipped item is marked with a little square on the side.  All it takes it 1/4 of a brain to screw that one up.  Do you honestly need a filter to tell you that "Combat Shotgun" is a shotgun?  On top of which, there shouldn't really be much of a reason to carry more than four guns on you at any time, or whatever your specialty is (melee, energy weapons, etc).  If you are an expert in energy weapons, then why the fuck would you even HAVE a shotgun?  lol  Meanwhile, JRPGs want you to have everything on your person at any given time, and these skinny androgynous punks are able to carry ALL of that shit around with no problem?  What, they have a mule and a wagon behind them hauling it around?!  lol  Then again, I guess you could argue about how a character in F3 is able to carry 6 Chinese Assault Rifles, 2 Laser Rifles, 3 Sledgehammers, 2 Magnums, a Sniper Rifle, a Power Fist, a set of Power Armor, and 9 other sets of armor all at the same time...so it's whatever.  Regardless, the itemization menu works just fine.

 

"

we're not talking about being able to go through it, we're talking about going through it with speed.  It's like having a huge blog with articles vs. and index with links to each article. 

And you also brought up my largest problem with some wrpgs---> item limits.  I'm sorry, but this isn't fun.  If we're going to play make believe that your character carries items dependent on weight yet at the same time shows like he's carrying nothing except what's equipped, let's make believe that your magic pocket also applies to weight in addition to volume. "

"Br3adfan said:

"Discorsi said:

 There is always going to be some clutter if you have a lot of items but that is true about any menu system. 

yes, but can we not make it so hunting rifles only take up one space? "

"Br3adfan said:

"Discorsi said:

 There is always going to be some clutter if you have a lot of items but that is true about any menu system. 

yes, but can we not make it so hunting rifles only take up one space? "

^ can you please explain the point of item limits and how they benefit the game?
I do like wrpgs, but I like jrpgs more.  They're completely different for the record and the only similarities are the focus on stats.  WRPGs sometimes will go for a story as well (although some don't).  JRPGs always do. 

JRPGs are really (turn based) action games with usually an open world via disproportioned world map/ town list that last 50-120 hours and are story driven.  WRPGs are typically reliant on combat and somtimes will develop a story, still more common than a typical action game, but it's not a requirement.

JRPGs are really (turn based) action games with usually an open world via disproportioned world map/ town list that last 50-120 hours and are story driven.  WRPGs are typically reliant on combat and somtimes will develop a story, still more common than a typical action game, but it's not a requirement."

"^ can you please explain the point of item limits and how they benefit the game?
I do like wrpgs, but I like jrpgs more.  They're completely different for the record and the only similarities are the focus on stats.  WRPGs sometimes will go for a story as well (although some don't).  JRPGs always do. 

JRPGs are really (turn based) action games with usually an open world via disproportioned world map/ town list that last 50-120 hours and are story driven.  WRPGs are typically reliant on combat and somtimes will develop a story, still more common than a typical action game, but it's not a requirement."

 WRPGs are typically reliant on combat and somtimes will develop a story, still more common than a typical action game, but it's not a requirement."

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"Br3adfan said:

"Discorsi said:

 There is always going to be some clutter if you have a lot of items but that is true about any menu system. 

yes, but can we not make it so hunting rifles only take up one space? "

Not at all, because they have different conditions. It's simpler to have one main list of weapons rather than a bunch of sub-lists as well. Also, there's special weapons that are hunting rifles as well. Where would these go?"

"^ can you please explain the point of item limits and how they benefit the game?"

"Arkthemaniac said:

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"Br3adfan said:

"Discorsi said:

 There is always going to be some clutter if you have a lot of items but that is true about any menu system. 

yes, but can we not make it so hunting rifles only take up one space? "

Not at all, because they have different conditions. It's simpler to have one main list of weapons rather than a bunch of sub-lists as well. Also, there's special weapons that are hunting rifles as well. Where would these go?"

Like this:

"

"again, while having 3 hunting rifles doesn't hurt, having 3 hunting rifles, 3 combat knives, 3 baseball bats, etc. makes it way longer than necessary."

^ because item management is a bitch.
you're essentially saying that it's because of clutter.  That's not exactly a good arguement to say at this point.

Honestly, do you like managing weight?  Did you not get pissed when you were raiding the daedric shines and couldn't bring back some more daedric armor that you rightfully earned because you were over encumbered?  Bullshit.  I quite literally did a recall and had to walk to the barter by repeaitng picking up and dropping the item.  Keep in mind I'm talking about morrowind here.  I can't just pick it up...which compeltely makes sense in oblivion (only when it's in your inventory, what?)

"^ because item management is a bitch.
you're essentially saying that it's because of clutter.  That's not exactly a good arguement to say at this point.

Honestly, do you like managing weight?  Did you not get pissed when you were raiding the daedric shines and couldn't bring back some more daedric armor that you rightfully earned because you were over encumbered?  Bullshit.  I quite literally did a recall and had to walk to the barter by repeaitng picking up and dropping the item.  Keep in mind I'm talking about morrowind here.  I can't just pick it up...which compeltely makes sense in oblivion (only when it's in your inventory, what?)"

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"again, while having 3 hunting rifles doesn't hurt, having 3 hunting rifles, 3 combat knives, 3 baseball bats, etc. makes it way longer than necessary."

Does someone need to explain the repair system in the game to you, because your idea would basically break it."

"^ because item management is a bitch.
you're essentially saying that it's because of clutter.  That's not exactly a good arguement to say at this point.

Honestly, do you like managing weight?  Did you not get pissed when you were raiding the daedric shines and couldn't bring back some more daedric armor that you rightfully earned because you were over encumbered?  Bullshit.  I quite literally did a recall and had to walk to the barter by repeaitng picking up and dropping the item.  Keep in mind I'm talking about morrowind here.  I can't just pick it up...which compeltely makes sense in oblivion (only when it's in your inventory, what?)"

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"^ because item management is a bitch.
you're essentially saying that it's because of clutter.  That's not exactly a good arguement to say at this point.

Honestly, do you like managing weight?  Did you not get pissed when you were raiding the daedric shines and couldn't bring back some more daedric armor that you rightfully earned because you were over encumbered?  Bullshit.  I quite literally did a recall and had to walk to the barter by repeaitng picking up and dropping the item.  Keep in mind I'm talking about morrowind here.  I can't just pick it up...which compeltely makes sense in oblivion (only when it's in your inventory, what?)"

Well, as far as this example goes, I liked that, because it made you compromise. It also made strength potions all the more valuable."

Thinking about that in general terms, that is the biggest problem with wrpgs.  They forget aspects of fun.  Fable sort of said screw all of that and I think is headed in the right direction, although it prides itself in becoming an action game.  Yea, although I like fable, it's not the direction all wrpgs should take. "

As long as a menu doesn't lag and does what I want it to do, I'm cool. It could be a white background with black text for all I could care.

"SmugDarkLoser said:

Thinking about that in general terms, that is the biggest problem with wrpgs.  They forget aspects of fun.  Fable sort of said screw all of that and I think is headed in the right direction, although it prides itself in becoming an action game.  Yea, although I like fable, it's not the direction all wrpgs should take. "

I had a lot of fun playing Oblivion and Fallout, so I don't see what you are talking about. "