Digital Boobs: An essay on sexuality in games

Avatar image for theoriginalatlas
Atlas

2808

Forum Posts

573

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 19

Edited By Atlas

This is the first of what I hope will be a regular series of essays relating to issues in video games. This was inspired by a recent thread discussing whether or not people think the beast sizes of female characters in video games should be changed.

--------------------------------------

Humans; highly evolved beings, the masters of all we survey, capable of feats that were previously thought impossible. But let us not forget that we are still animals, and only relatively recently, from a scientific point of view, did we crawl out of the caves and create the world we know today. One of the most significant differences between humans and animals is that as we have evolved, we have had to rely less and less on survival instincts and have dedicated ourselves more and more to the realms of entertainment. And as ancient man threw dice and indulged in Mahjong and Backgammon, as the Greeks acted out great comedies, we, the modern generation, have our video games.

And as our forms of entertainment continue to evolve, so does the way we perceive them. And in the same way that incredibly profane scenes of sexual content were controversial in Ancient Athens, our most modern of entertainment faces the same controversy. Early games established the foundation - strippers in Duke Nukem, Mai Shiranui's pendulum breasts in Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, Lara Croft's sizeable cleavage - but now we have taken even further, with interactive sexual relationships in Fable and Mass Effect, Ivy's freakish breasts in Soul Calibur IV, and the ever so controversial Japanese game RapeLay.

There is no denying that we live in a sexual society. Over generations people have tried to repress our baser instincts - the Puritans, America's fathers, are a great example, as our the Victorians and the modern Catholic Church - but none can stop sexual themes making their way into mainstream entertainment. And the reason sex in entertainment exists is because people gravitate towards it. Marilyn Monroe, one of cinema's greatest icons, is certainly not well known for her acting talent. Modern equivalents like Megan Fox and Scarlett Johanssen, and music stars like Britney Spears, Katy Perry and the Pussycat Dolls, can be seen as carrying the torch.

So we perhaps we shouldn't be so shocked about sexuality in video games. Nobody blinks at sex scenes in films any more, and very few games feature full frontal nudity, in the same way most movies don't. But still people consider this to be an especially controversial issue, especially in regards to how the characters are proportioned. And there is the key difference between movies and video games; to make a non-animated movie, you need real people to fill the roles. Video games, animated movies and graphic art give us as humans free reign to develop characters as we pleased, and consequently, many female characters in video games do have larger than average breasts.

So allow me to dissect some of the issues I indetify as key in the fabric of this issue.

First off, most female video game characters are tough. Think of Lady Shepard in Mass Effect, Chun-Li from Street Fighter, and countless others. These are not ladies you want to mess with. And now look at real female fighters. Gina Carano. Cyborg. Laila Ali. All three probably have larger than average breasts. It's not a coincidence; when you're built like a fighter, you are proportioned in different ways to the common person, and so larger than average breasts are a common trait. That being said, this still doesn't clear up the issue. Is it taken too far? yes. Is Ivy disguisting? Personally I think so. Is it unrealistic that petit Asian characters like Tifa Lockhart, Kasumi, Pai Chan, Taki and others still have well formed boobs? Probably.

So that brings me to my other issue; the perception that this is an issue that is exclusive to female video game characters. When was the last time we had a male video game character who wasn't ultra muscular? Fighting game characters especially are huge, Chris Redfield from Resident Evil 5 seems to have biceps larger than his head, and have you ever taken your character's shift off in Oblivion? You could be the dweebiest character possible, skilled in mercantile, speechcraft and knitting, but you've still got a six-pack.

Let us not forget that video games are still about hyper-reality, so it's not ridiculous in that sense for men to have freakish muscles and women to have large breasts. In the same way that the Greek plays were full of sex and violence, video games are the same way. They're a pantomime, a circus even. They are not something to be taken especially seriously, with some significant exceptions, but this is a question about the industry at large. Think of the things you can do in video games; explore galaxies, jump dozens of feet in the air while shooting a gun, experience the aftermath of the nuclear apocalypse, and carry swords larger than the character's body. In the scheme of things, is breast size really the most egregious bending of reality in video games?

With all that being said, there is one key question that we all face, as individuals and as a society; do we want this? Some will always answer no. People will always want realistic games rather than hyper realistic games, but from my experience, they are the minority. Sexuality continues to thrive in all forms of entertainment. Think of all the people who only went to see the new Transformers films to leer at Megan Fox. Think of men who like the Pussycat Dolls, despite the fact that they have disgraced humanity and provided some of the worst music in the history of civilisation.

And then there's the issues of the cultural barrier. This forum is mostly Americans and Europeans, and a lot of the issues we are discussing here originate in Japanese character design, with some exceptions such as Lara Croft. That doesn't make our opinion invalid, and we can say what we want from Western designed games, but if the Japanese audience still wants big boobs, and they obviously do, then that makes this issue even more complicated. Japanese game makers obviously went one massive step too far with RapeLay, and I don't think anyone can really defend that game. But Japanese culture has a long, occasionally ugly, established sexual history and identity, and modern Japan is a very sexual society, moreso even than the west. So if we as Westerners want to continue to embrace Japanese culture in the same way that the Japanese have embraced Western culture, we need to acknowledge that sexual hyper realism has and will always be a part of Japanese culture and society. I believe this is partly the consequence of not being a particularly religious country; Japan does have national religion - Shinto and Buddhism - but neither is anywhere near as dogmatic and strict as Christiany, Catholicism, Judaism and Islam.

So now it is time for me to conclude this investigation. I have to announce my own wholly subjective opinion on the matter. I am a young man, I am quite a sexual person, I'm an atheist, I'm in no way a prudish person, I'm a great admirer of Japanese culture, and as far as I'm concerned, sexuality and breast size in video games is no more a controversial matter or stinging point than male muscularity. In fact, some of my favourite games (Fable, Mass Effect, Soulcalibur IV etc) have sexual elements. That's certainly not the only thing I like about them, but I loved being able to seduce a partner in Fable 2, and getting to see my female Shepard character get it on with the pretty blue skinned lady in Mass Effect was pretty awesome. And I have made some fairly slutty Soulcalibur characters in Create-a-Soul.

But my argument throughout this is that this shouldn't be a contentious issue for anyone. There is no moral high ground here. You can not like boobs in video games as a personal matter, but I don't think arguments of sexism, discrimination and objectivication hold a lot of water. I think it is part of being a young medium of entertainment. There was a time when sexual themes in movies and music were greatly frowned upon. Nowadays rap songs with significant allusions to sexual activity consistently chart very highly, and movies with a sexy lead actress or a saucy sex scene do well at the box office. It all comes down to the old truism; sex sells.

The way we perceive video games is changing, which is the be expected for a young medium, but the way we humans perceive entertainment has hardly changed at all from the times of ancient Greeks. Some will always detest controversial elements and condemn those responsible for them, and there will always be people that embrace it and derive great thrills from things that people consider taboo. But they are the extremes; in the middle is the average person. Some people consider video game fans, and nerds in general, to be more sexually repressed and/or more childishly fascinated by sex than others, but I find this to be a fallacy and a great generalisation. We video game fans are no different to anyone else, and almost everyone likes sex.

My final point, and arguably the most important, stems back to the issue of video games as art. Yes, video games can be artistic and make you think. But some of the deepest most artistic pieces ever created have sexual themes. But my major point is that games are entertainment. In fact they are more than that. They are play things, hobbies, distractions. Very few people play video games for any other reason than to have a good time. So why do we still take issues like this so seriously? The fact that I've written this essay means I'm just as guilty as anyone. You can look at games on a deep level - it isn't impossible to do so - but let us never foget throughout all of this what games really are. They are games. Let's keep it that way.

Avatar image for theoriginalatlas
Atlas

2808

Forum Posts

573

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 19

#1  Edited By Atlas

This is the first of what I hope will be a regular series of essays relating to issues in video games. This was inspired by a recent thread discussing whether or not people think the beast sizes of female characters in video games should be changed.

--------------------------------------

Humans; highly evolved beings, the masters of all we survey, capable of feats that were previously thought impossible. But let us not forget that we are still animals, and only relatively recently, from a scientific point of view, did we crawl out of the caves and create the world we know today. One of the most significant differences between humans and animals is that as we have evolved, we have had to rely less and less on survival instincts and have dedicated ourselves more and more to the realms of entertainment. And as ancient man threw dice and indulged in Mahjong and Backgammon, as the Greeks acted out great comedies, we, the modern generation, have our video games.

And as our forms of entertainment continue to evolve, so does the way we perceive them. And in the same way that incredibly profane scenes of sexual content were controversial in Ancient Athens, our most modern of entertainment faces the same controversy. Early games established the foundation - strippers in Duke Nukem, Mai Shiranui's pendulum breasts in Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, Lara Croft's sizeable cleavage - but now we have taken even further, with interactive sexual relationships in Fable and Mass Effect, Ivy's freakish breasts in Soul Calibur IV, and the ever so controversial Japanese game RapeLay.

There is no denying that we live in a sexual society. Over generations people have tried to repress our baser instincts - the Puritans, America's fathers, are a great example, as our the Victorians and the modern Catholic Church - but none can stop sexual themes making their way into mainstream entertainment. And the reason sex in entertainment exists is because people gravitate towards it. Marilyn Monroe, one of cinema's greatest icons, is certainly not well known for her acting talent. Modern equivalents like Megan Fox and Scarlett Johanssen, and music stars like Britney Spears, Katy Perry and the Pussycat Dolls, can be seen as carrying the torch.

So we perhaps we shouldn't be so shocked about sexuality in video games. Nobody blinks at sex scenes in films any more, and very few games feature full frontal nudity, in the same way most movies don't. But still people consider this to be an especially controversial issue, especially in regards to how the characters are proportioned. And there is the key difference between movies and video games; to make a non-animated movie, you need real people to fill the roles. Video games, animated movies and graphic art give us as humans free reign to develop characters as we pleased, and consequently, many female characters in video games do have larger than average breasts.

So allow me to dissect some of the issues I indetify as key in the fabric of this issue.

First off, most female video game characters are tough. Think of Lady Shepard in Mass Effect, Chun-Li from Street Fighter, and countless others. These are not ladies you want to mess with. And now look at real female fighters. Gina Carano. Cyborg. Laila Ali. All three probably have larger than average breasts. It's not a coincidence; when you're built like a fighter, you are proportioned in different ways to the common person, and so larger than average breasts are a common trait. That being said, this still doesn't clear up the issue. Is it taken too far? yes. Is Ivy disguisting? Personally I think so. Is it unrealistic that petit Asian characters like Tifa Lockhart, Kasumi, Pai Chan, Taki and others still have well formed boobs? Probably.

So that brings me to my other issue; the perception that this is an issue that is exclusive to female video game characters. When was the last time we had a male video game character who wasn't ultra muscular? Fighting game characters especially are huge, Chris Redfield from Resident Evil 5 seems to have biceps larger than his head, and have you ever taken your character's shift off in Oblivion? You could be the dweebiest character possible, skilled in mercantile, speechcraft and knitting, but you've still got a six-pack.

Let us not forget that video games are still about hyper-reality, so it's not ridiculous in that sense for men to have freakish muscles and women to have large breasts. In the same way that the Greek plays were full of sex and violence, video games are the same way. They're a pantomime, a circus even. They are not something to be taken especially seriously, with some significant exceptions, but this is a question about the industry at large. Think of the things you can do in video games; explore galaxies, jump dozens of feet in the air while shooting a gun, experience the aftermath of the nuclear apocalypse, and carry swords larger than the character's body. In the scheme of things, is breast size really the most egregious bending of reality in video games?

With all that being said, there is one key question that we all face, as individuals and as a society; do we want this? Some will always answer no. People will always want realistic games rather than hyper realistic games, but from my experience, they are the minority. Sexuality continues to thrive in all forms of entertainment. Think of all the people who only went to see the new Transformers films to leer at Megan Fox. Think of men who like the Pussycat Dolls, despite the fact that they have disgraced humanity and provided some of the worst music in the history of civilisation.

And then there's the issues of the cultural barrier. This forum is mostly Americans and Europeans, and a lot of the issues we are discussing here originate in Japanese character design, with some exceptions such as Lara Croft. That doesn't make our opinion invalid, and we can say what we want from Western designed games, but if the Japanese audience still wants big boobs, and they obviously do, then that makes this issue even more complicated. Japanese game makers obviously went one massive step too far with RapeLay, and I don't think anyone can really defend that game. But Japanese culture has a long, occasionally ugly, established sexual history and identity, and modern Japan is a very sexual society, moreso even than the west. So if we as Westerners want to continue to embrace Japanese culture in the same way that the Japanese have embraced Western culture, we need to acknowledge that sexual hyper realism has and will always be a part of Japanese culture and society. I believe this is partly the consequence of not being a particularly religious country; Japan does have national religion - Shinto and Buddhism - but neither is anywhere near as dogmatic and strict as Christiany, Catholicism, Judaism and Islam.

So now it is time for me to conclude this investigation. I have to announce my own wholly subjective opinion on the matter. I am a young man, I am quite a sexual person, I'm an atheist, I'm in no way a prudish person, I'm a great admirer of Japanese culture, and as far as I'm concerned, sexuality and breast size in video games is no more a controversial matter or stinging point than male muscularity. In fact, some of my favourite games (Fable, Mass Effect, Soulcalibur IV etc) have sexual elements. That's certainly not the only thing I like about them, but I loved being able to seduce a partner in Fable 2, and getting to see my female Shepard character get it on with the pretty blue skinned lady in Mass Effect was pretty awesome. And I have made some fairly slutty Soulcalibur characters in Create-a-Soul.

But my argument throughout this is that this shouldn't be a contentious issue for anyone. There is no moral high ground here. You can not like boobs in video games as a personal matter, but I don't think arguments of sexism, discrimination and objectivication hold a lot of water. I think it is part of being a young medium of entertainment. There was a time when sexual themes in movies and music were greatly frowned upon. Nowadays rap songs with significant allusions to sexual activity consistently chart very highly, and movies with a sexy lead actress or a saucy sex scene do well at the box office. It all comes down to the old truism; sex sells.

The way we perceive video games is changing, which is the be expected for a young medium, but the way we humans perceive entertainment has hardly changed at all from the times of ancient Greeks. Some will always detest controversial elements and condemn those responsible for them, and there will always be people that embrace it and derive great thrills from things that people consider taboo. But they are the extremes; in the middle is the average person. Some people consider video game fans, and nerds in general, to be more sexually repressed and/or more childishly fascinated by sex than others, but I find this to be a fallacy and a great generalisation. We video game fans are no different to anyone else, and almost everyone likes sex.

My final point, and arguably the most important, stems back to the issue of video games as art. Yes, video games can be artistic and make you think. But some of the deepest most artistic pieces ever created have sexual themes. But my major point is that games are entertainment. In fact they are more than that. They are play things, hobbies, distractions. Very few people play video games for any other reason than to have a good time. So why do we still take issues like this so seriously? The fact that I've written this essay means I'm just as guilty as anyone. You can look at games on a deep level - it isn't impossible to do so - but let us never foget throughout all of this what games really are. They are games. Let's keep it that way.

Avatar image for oldschool
oldschool

7641

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 10

#2  Edited By oldschool

Needs more boobs  :-)

Avatar image for godwind
Godwind

2924

Forum Posts

345

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By Godwind
@oldschool said:
" Needs more boobs  :-) "
Inflated as well.

Also, what could one truly say about boobs in an essay?  Short hand essay, boobs are awesome.
Avatar image for the_a_drain
The_A_Drain

4073

Forum Posts

577

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By The_A_Drain

Ahh god not this again. Boobs, no boobs who cares. Sure, I like big boobs, sue me I must be a sexist bigot /sarcasm. But for gods sake, why does it even matter?! Good game is good game, bad game is bad, no amount of boobs no matter the size can change that.

Avatar image for godwind
Godwind

2924

Forum Posts

345

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By Godwind
@The_A_Drain said:
" Ahh god not this again. Boobs, no boobs who cares. Sure, I like big boobs, sue me I must be a sexist bigot /sarcasm. But for gods sake, why does it even matter?! Good game is good game, bad game is bad, no amount of boobs no matter the size can change that. "
So what is your incentive to play Dead or Alive over Virtua Fighter?
Avatar image for cc23574
cc23574

665

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6  Edited By cc23574

You lost me at the word essay,pics of boobz?

Avatar image for the_a_drain
The_A_Drain

4073

Forum Posts

577

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By The_A_Drain
@Godwind:

Neither they are both shit imo. Original DoA (or 2, I forget) was pretty decent, but the rest are awful.
Avatar image for lordofultima
lordofultima

6592

Forum Posts

25303

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 9

#8  Edited By lordofultima

I'm actually a fan of more normal sized boobs. Maybe I'm just crazy. Big boobs are good too though. Guess I'm just saying that I like boobs.

Avatar image for godwind
Godwind

2924

Forum Posts

345

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By Godwind
@The_A_Drain said:
" @Godwind: Neither they are both shit imo. Original DoA (or 2, I forget) was pretty decent, but the rest are awful. "
Then what games would you play?
Avatar image for penguindust
penguindust

13129

Forum Posts

22

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#10  Edited By penguindust

Good read.  I agree with much of your assessment, but I wonder, is there any depiction of males in games that men find objectionable?  I'm not bothered if every guy in every game is built like Kratos, but maybe others would be.  If every female warrior is fighting in a metal bikini, I don't mind if every male warrior is in a chain mail loin cloth.  Of course, this is probably because one is a depiction of strength which men approve of and aspire to, while the other may be viewed as a portrayal of sexuality and something to be objectified.  And since I'm told objectification is wrong, female characters shouldn't be designed in a way that emphasizes their sex.  Which makes me wonder, in an all-things-being-equal world, what would make men say "I'm uncomfortable with how males are portrayed in games"?  Certainly, it's probably not an enlightened approach since sexualization, like objectification is wrong.  Would male gamers be angered by enlarged "packages" on their characters?  How many folks thought that the dangling dongle in GTA IV: L&D was offensive?  Would tally-wacker physics be a distraction?  I don't know.  Maybe men would have trouble with the sight of Ryu's jiggling junk in Street Fighter IV because (A) it would make them feel inferior about the size of their own man-meat, or (B) stir awkward urges in them.  With women, I suspect, the reason they object to the portrayal of sexy characters in games is because it's an affirmation of the subjectation of women by men in real life.  It encourages the idea that women are sex objects first and everything else second.  But, since historically, men haven't been challenged by that constraint, I wonder what they would find equally objectionable?  Maybe because of their position in society through history, there is no equal portrayal. 

Avatar image for metroid545
Metroid545

1839

Forum Posts

8588

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 3

#12  Edited By Metroid545
@cc23574 said:
" You lost me at the word essay,pics of boobz? "
lol exactly
Avatar image for zmilla
ZmillA

2519

Forum Posts

195

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#13  Edited By ZmillA

Why keep games, as games. Thats just limiting what they have the potential to be.

Avatar image for bonbolapti
bonbolapti

1752

Forum Posts

4208

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 2

#14  Edited By bonbolapti

I never knew Sexuality in video games was an issue. I have a lot of video games that have nothing to do with said issue. Have I been playing the wrong video games my whole life?

Avatar image for the_a_drain
The_A_Drain

4073

Forum Posts

577

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By The_A_Drain
@Godwind:

If you mean what games would I play because they have boobs, none, I'll play games I consider to be good and if they happen to have breasts in them (huge or otherwise) then so be it. And if they happen to be huge, I get some eye candy when they are on screen. No big deal.
Avatar image for jeremy_x
Jeremy_x

450

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16  Edited By Jeremy_x

Good first try, keep it on. It definately had a "GAME OVERTHINKER" sort of feel to it, especially since you are basically on canon with all of his opinions, check him out if you don't already know him: http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/

Avatar image for snipzor
Snipzor

3471

Forum Posts

57

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 1

#17  Edited By Snipzor
@oldschool said:
" Needs more boobs  :-) "

Wish granted
Wish granted

Avatar image for arbitrarywater
ArbitraryWater

16104

Forum Posts

5585

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 66

#18  Edited By ArbitraryWater
@Snipzor: You win this thread sir.

Anyways, I personally am fine with above-average sized cleavage in games, as long as it's not a major selling point (thus my contempt for DOA and Laura Croft goes beyond the fact that I don't like how they play) or they are immense swinging water baloons that are bigger than the girl's head (This has less to do with being moralistic and more to do with uncanny valley). I can understand why developers put giant boobs into games, but when the game revolves around the concept of giant bouncing breasts (DOA Xtreme 2) It becomes rediculous and even fetishistic.
Avatar image for pirate_republic
pirate_republic

1151

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 4

#19  Edited By pirate_republic

Good read, though I'm sure sexuality in games would be less controversial if it was presented in a more mature way. But as sexuality is currently very much immaturly presented in games, and people buy these games, doesn't that mean that we, as gamers, are immature?

Avatar image for nickl
NickL

2276

Forum Posts

695

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#20  Edited By NickL
@pirate_republic said:
" Good read, though I'm sure sexuality in games would be less controversial if it was presented in a more mature way. But as sexuality is currently very much immaturly presented in games, and people buy these games, doesn't that mean that we, as gamers, are immature? "
no it means that game developers still think they will get more sales if i game has boobs in it
Avatar image for pirate_republic
pirate_republic

1151

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 4

#21  Edited By pirate_republic
@NickL said:
"@pirate_republic said:
" Good read, though I'm sure sexuality in games would be less controversial if it was presented in a more mature way. But as sexuality is currently very much immaturly presented in games, and people buy these games, doesn't that mean that we, as gamers, are immature? "
no it means that game developers still think they will get more sales if i game has boobs in it"

Yes but the reason developers put boobs in their game is BECAUSE gamers are more likely to buy it. If gamers didn't like that sort of thing, they wouldn't buy it, and therefore the developers wouldn't put it in there.
Avatar image for erinfizz
erinfizz

1065

Forum Posts

10815

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#22  Edited By erinfizz

An interesting read. But please don't feel the need to handwave away serious thought about video games. Bringing "games as art" into the discussion at the very end seems incongruous with the rest of the essay; an easy out so as not to have to make conclusions about the meat of what you wrote.

Avatar image for c1337us
c1337us

5877

Forum Posts

56

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By c1337us
@PeasForFees said:
" Will not read "
@cc23574 said:
" You lost me at the word essay,pics of boobz? "
Pretty much sums it up for me also :-D
Avatar image for vinchenzo
Vinchenzo

6461

Forum Posts

245

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 30

User Lists: 2

#24  Edited By Vinchenzo

I'm a fan of Asian boobs. So I guess... flat-chested is the final frontier for me.

Avatar image for amberella
Amberella

168

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25  Edited By Amberella
@PenguinDust said:
"Good read.  I agree with much of your assessment, but I wonder, is there any depiction of males in games that men find objectionable?  I'm not bothered if every guy in every game is built like Kratos, but maybe others would be.  If every female warrior is fighting in a metal bikini, I don't mind if every male warrior is in a chain mail loin cloth.  Of course, this is probably because one is a depiction of strength which men approve of and aspire to, while the other may be viewed as a portrayal of sexuality and something to be objectified.  And since I'm told objectification is wrong, female characters shouldn't be designed in a way that emphasizes their sex.  Which makes me wonder, in an all-things-being-equal world, what would make men say "I'm uncomfortable with how males are portrayed in games"?  Certainly, it's probably not an enlightened approach since sexualization, like objectification is wrong.  Would male gamers be angered by enlarged "packages" on their characters?  How many folks thought that the dangling dongle in GTA IV: L&D was offensive?  Would tally-wacker physics be a distraction?  I don't know.  Maybe men would have trouble with the sight of Ryu's jiggling junk in Street Fighter IV because (A) it would make them feel inferior about the size of their own man-meat, or (B) stir awkward urges in them.  With women, I suspect, the reason they object to the portrayal of sexy characters in games is because it's an affirmation of the subjectation of women by men in real life.  It encourages the idea that women are sex objects first and everything else second.  But, since historically, men haven't been challenged by that constraint, I wonder what they would find equally objectionable?  Maybe because of their position in society through history, there is no equal portrayal.  "

I agree with everything you say. You have an interesting way to go about thiings. =]
Avatar image for theoriginalatlas
Atlas

2808

Forum Posts

573

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 19

#26  Edited By Atlas
@erinfizz: That's a very good point, actually. I had no intention of giving myself an out, but I do feel that part of the problem stems from people who take games very seriously and want them to be realistic rather than hyper realistic. These are the people that are going to complain about things like this, and all I way saying is that in my humble opinion these people need to chill the fuck out.
Avatar image for fr0br0
fr0br0

3255

Forum Posts

151

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#27  Edited By fr0br0
@Vinchenzo said:
" I'm a fan of Asian boobs. So I guess... flat-chested is the final frontier for me. "
At least your on the right road to admitting you like 12 year old boys...
Avatar image for wolverine
Wolverine

4642

Forum Posts

3776

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#28  Edited By Wolverine
@Atlas said:
" But my argument throughout this is that this shouldn't be a contentious issue for anyone. There is no moral high ground here. You can not like boobs in video games as a personal matter, but I don't think arguments of sexism, discrimination and objectivication hold a lot of water. I think it is part of being a young medium of entertainment. There was a time when sexual themes in movies and music were greatly frowned upon. Nowadays rap songs with significant allusions to sexual activity consistently chart very highly, and movies with a sexy lead actress or a saucy sex scene do well at the box office. It all comes down to the old truism; sex sells."
The argument that female characters in games with big boobs are sexist character is a ridiculous argument. For example, DOA 4 isn't sexist because the women are not being looked at as sex objects, they are just as equal as men in the game. You don't have any sort of advantage when you go into a DOA 4 game because the character you chose is a certain sex.
Avatar image for theoriginalatlas
Atlas

2808

Forum Posts

573

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 19

#29  Edited By Atlas
@Wolverine: Well said, sir. I couldn't agree more. Obviously I and other people are analysing depth in video games that you do not care for. And that's a good thing. Interesting though to think of the possibility of a female character being a "better fighter" because of her breasts. Maybe she would have the distraction advantage against men...
Avatar image for linkyshinks
Linkyshinks

11399

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#30  Edited By Linkyshinks

We are all sexually driven creatures, in all our art forms throughout time we display many of our constantly evolving thoughts on sexuality and reflect our understanding of the power of it. We revered sexual energy as something powerful and very spiritual in the past, phallus''s and breasts were symbolic of nature's power throughout many cultures around the world, including Japan. In the modern world, breasts have now become sexualized, no longer are they once the symbol of the fruition of man and women on this earth. Men, not women, have promoted the sexualizing of the part of anatomy, in turn weakening the the reverence we once had, and in turn the respect we have for those that posses such power.

In videogames, you have a development team predominantly consisting of men, making conscious decisions to add boobs of a overtly large size with animation quirks for the benefit of young men, who will naturally be attracted  to it. There is certainly no deep spiritual reverence in videogames of the like you see in art with sexual themes, instead it's a continuation of the sexualizing and weakening of something we once saw as a powerful symbol. It's use in videogames has very little to do with Art, but far more about money and control.


I think Mai's are cute.






Avatar image for wolverine
Wolverine

4642

Forum Posts

3776

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#31  Edited By Wolverine
@Atlas said:
" @Wolverine: Well said, sir. I couldn't agree more. Obviously I and other people are analysing depth in video games that you do not care for. And that's a good thing. Interesting though to think of the possibility of a female character being a "better fighter" because of her breasts. Maybe she would have the distraction advantage against men... "
Haha, maybe. Women also have the same sort of sexual media that directly appeals to them also. Movies such as Twilight are popular because women think that the main character is attractive. Also has anyone ever made you watch a chick flick? They are torture for me to watch but many of them play out what a great deal of women's fantasies are. I'm perfectly fine with a film or video game only targeting one sex.
Avatar image for vinchenzo
Vinchenzo

6461

Forum Posts

245

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 30

User Lists: 2

#32  Edited By Vinchenzo
@Fr0Br0 said:
" @Vinchenzo said:
" I'm a fan of Asian boobs. So I guess... flat-chested is the final frontier for me. "
At least your on the right road to admitting you like 12 year old boys... "
...yea no. I find it pretty disgusting when people say shit like that.
Avatar image for theoriginalatlas
Atlas

2808

Forum Posts

573

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 19

#33  Edited By Atlas
@Wolverine: Yeah, but the difference is "female pornography" is much more subtle. It's more "aww look at the cute sparkling vampire who loves that girl", not "wow, that dude's got a killer six pack and a nice dick".

Chick flicks I've seen? Well I think I've seen the least chicky of chick flicks, stuff like Miss Congeaniality and Legally Blonde. Miss Congeneality was alright, Legally Blonde was terrible. Oh yeah and I saw Bring It On once. That was pretty awful as well.
Avatar image for wolverine
Wolverine

4642

Forum Posts

3776

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#34  Edited By Wolverine
@Atlas: What you need to do is rent The Notebook and see if you can withstand two hours of torture and than right an essay about it! xD
Avatar image for theoriginalatlas
Atlas

2808

Forum Posts

573

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 19

#35  Edited By Atlas
@Wolverine: Send me $100 and a copy of the DVD and you've got a deal.

Otherwise, I have no intention of going out of my way to watch terrible chick flicks. Especially when I've got an unopened copy of Persona 4 sitting on my desk at home.
Avatar image for wolverine
Wolverine

4642

Forum Posts

3776

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#36  Edited By Wolverine
@Atlas: Hahahaha, I think I'll pass. I wouldn't want to subject a fellow Giant Bomber to such torture. lol
Avatar image for ahoodedfigure
ahoodedfigure

4580

Forum Posts

41781

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 64

#37  Edited By ahoodedfigure

Actually, the more you work out, the more you get rid of fat, so your boobs are likely to be smaller if you're muscular.  I don't know if that's the point you want to be making, as it's sort of reversed.  They're not there because they're realistic, they're there for the reason you sometimes seem to be making with your post, that they're there for sex appeal with the set that likes them, or thinks that they like them, that size.

You're right, though, that body expectations aren't limited to female characters.  I'd argue that there tends to be greater variation for males, though, whether stereotypical, goofy, dumb, muscular, or whatever, there seems to be a greater emphasis on character difference, with the fearful default being muscular, with fat guys being comic relief, skinny guys often transcending gender barriers, that sort of thing.  Aren't too many muscular women in games, and you notice that there was an outcry in games such as World of Warcraft when the female characters were deemed "too ugly".

Your thesis in general is a little unclear, perhaps because of the way you list examples for ancillary points and feel sometimes like you're trying to hit several targets at once.  It could probably be tighter, in other words.

It might serve your interest to look up the history of comic book censorship in America.  That was a young medium like film, but its development and perception was largely dictated by its accessibility and its writers' and artists' willingness to address certain subject matter which caused reactionary elements to clamp down harder than they ever did with films.  This may have been due to the perception of comic books as being a child's medium, despite there being adult titles before the censors moved in.  Games, too, are considered to be a child's medium by many, despite examples to the contrary.

Even films, now considered by a lot of people to be among literature and other artistic expression, are often regarded as "just entertainment," often sapping whatever potential they have to move people on a deeper level than forgettable excitement or sensuality.  I think you actually undersell the value of entertainment in culture, here.

Avatar image for animegreen
animegreen

63

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38  Edited By animegreen

An essay should be controversial.. This seems more like a block of text.. But I just scanned through it since It was really boring. You weren't making an argument about anything you were just stating facts, and your facts didn't have any sources cited.

So four  things to work on - make it controversial or don't call it an essay, make it less boring,  present an argument, and cite some sources.

p.s. google pathos, logos , ethos.

Avatar image for theoriginalatlas
Atlas

2808

Forum Posts

573

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 19

#39  Edited By Atlas
@animegreen: Don't you think that maybe you're getting a little caught up in one single word in the title? I didn't set out to be controversial, and if that doesn't constitute an essay in your eyes, that's fine I guess. Your other criticisms are fairer, and other people commented on the essay being a little unfocused, so I've got some stuff to work on.

Pretty pleased that the essay has resulted in healthy discussion, positive feedback and constructive criticism. This encourages me to write more essays in the future.
Avatar image for azuresupernova
AzureSupernova

207

Forum Posts

1002

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

#40  Edited By AzureSupernova

Of course, sexual themes will always remain in games, whether they're blatant and in your face or very subtle. And indeed, Japan is a very sexually orientated country and it's clear from the extensive detail they put into their character models, that developers do go out of their way to ensure that their characters are all clearly labelled. Everyone will have an opinion, but the point is that exactly. Everyone has different views of what is acceptable within a game, for instance the heavy scrutiny that RapeLay has been put under, whilst certainly not by any means acceptable in Western culture, clearly there is less of an issue in Japan with games of the like, take other adult games such as Bible Black, heavily featuring questionable acts. Comparing what is acceptable in Japan (games that do feature heavy sexual content), what is declared acceptable in the Western world is very mild.
 Does anyone recall the Hot Coffee fiasco with San Andreas?

And yes, both males and females featured in Anime, Manga, and Japanese titles, if paid attention to none of them are actually deemed "unattractive". They are all given beauty in their own way, all very ideal and desireable, perhaps purposely?