Survival horror games. Are they turning into shooters?

I want to talk about this because allot of the old survival horror games are now moving to being developed in the Europe of the US.  I loved how the poor controls and shitty camera angles would make you scared. 

Dead space (SS3) is the new age of the survival horror.  Sharp controls and slick presentation.  But I feel that its not as scary,  its allot more like a shooter.

What do you think?

you made a good point,what made the old resident evil games scary was the horrible camera placement,and the way you shoot,you have to raise your dumb hand up down left right,which is fustrating,by the time you raise it they already biting at you, [that is my case,im noob at scary games because i get scared the crap out of me] .

I I just dont want everything to turn into a shooter.  

Maybe reviewers shouldn’t call into question the mechanics that  the designer intended to be in the game.

How boring would Silent Hill have been had it had Gears of War controls?

I still don't know what to really think about this. While the horror part has certainly been lost to some extent, I do believe that the old format is dead and forever gone; and I do not think this is a bad thing.

Maybe we'll find some form of balance, but the old positioned camera with tank controls really can't exist in today's gaming world. They are dated and do not reflect what we are looking for.

What I think really kills the horror part is how much power we can have in the new format. Take for instance Dead Space, RE4 or the new Silent Hill. You kill so many enemies that it makes you think that you're actually more dangerous than the things you're fighting. I think that if we find a way to substitute the shooting with something else, while retaining the new format, THEN we can have a really scary horror game.

I haven't played dead space yet, but yes I'm afraid survival horror as it used to be is pretty much dead, which is a shame because I consider it the best genre in video games, I loved the old RE games, they were perfect survival horror games but now, it just turned into another shooter... meh... I'm still getting it though. >__>

I know what you mean, when you feel so much more powerful then the monsters your trying to kill it really takes away from the horror. I think the most recent game that i thought was scary is penumbra: Black plague, in that game your best option was to simply hide or run like crazy away from the enemy, which makes for a much more scary game.

I think everyone needs to honestly get over it. What they used to be were terribly tank like controlled, slow shitty camera games, that everyone made an excuse for those mechanics based on claiming it built up the horror more Which is such bullshit honestly, It doesn't matter the genre, you should enjoy a game, not tolerate its terrible combat and mechanics because it feels more 'horrorish' to you. If you want a game that makes you feel extremely weak and everything, Siren or that upcoming Fatal Frame for the Wii are probably you're best bet, but other than that, it has to do with western devs making these games now, instead of just Japanese devs, since that was always their thing. Except capcom of course, they actually are good at coping with the west.

"I think everyone needs to honestly get over it. What they used to be were terribly tank like controlled slow shitty camera games, that everyone made an excuse for those mechanics based on claiming it built ujp the horror more, which is such bullshit honestly. It doesn't matter the genre, you should enjoy a game, not tolerate its terrible combat and mechanics because it feels more 'horrorish' to you."

"pause422 said:

"I think everyone needs to honestly get over it. What they used to be were terribly tank like controlled slow shitty camera games, that everyone made an excuse for those mechanics based on claiming it built ujp the horror more, which is such bullshit honestly. It doesn't matter the genre, you should enjoy a game, not tolerate its terrible combat and mechanics because it feels more 'horrorish' to you."

This just shows you don't know shit what you're talking about."

"pause422 said:

"I think everyone needs to honestly get over it. What they used to be were terribly tank like controlled slow shitty camera games, that everyone made an excuse for those mechanics based on claiming it built ujp the horror more, which is such bullshit honestly. It doesn't matter the genre, you should enjoy a game, not tolerate its terrible combat and mechanics because it feels more 'horrorish' to you."

This just shows you don't know shit what you're talking about."

I don't mind updated controls and good camera shots. Those things don't make a game scary, they just make it hard to play.

I agree with Lazyturtle, and in response to the original question, i would love to see a decent horror survival in third person and NOT involve guns in any way.
A fellow student of mine is actually creating a game (admittedly in first person) in which the protagonist uses ordinary objects around him/her to deter enemies.
This creates a more panicky and scary scenario (in the general opinion) as you can't just whip out a gun and shoot at things- and certainly not from a long range, either.

Modern survival horror game design started in Europe (Infograms' Alone in the Dark series) and there's been bleed over between shooters and survival horror for a while now. Most notably were Thief and Clive Barker's Undying, but Requiem: Avenging Angel and Blood 2: The Chosen both rode the borderline as well.

On the other side of the fence, for all of its faults, Deep Fear on Saturn was notable for changing the gamer's experience by allowing you to run with your gun drawn. A simple little tweak with a huge effect on the gameplay. Climax's Blue Stinger was an oddity in that it started off as a survival horror game in Japan but when they brought it out to the US, they moved the camera behind the player's back and made it felt more like an action game. Neither were especially critical successes, but they laid a pretty important foundation.

tl;dr - Games like Resident Evil 4 and Dead Space aren't anything new, they're just more prominet than they once were because the ones that are being developed are receiving bigger budgets and more marketing push.

Survival Horror is bound to become more shooter based, becuasue they're focusing on the "survival" part more than the "horror" part.

"Survival Horror is bound to become more shooter based, becuasue they're focusing on the "survival" part more than the "horror" part.

"I don't mind updated controls and good camera shots. Those things don't make a game scary, they just make it hard to play.

The point about slaughtering lots of enemies is spot on. A horror game should be hard. Resources should be scarce and enemies should be hard to kill. Zombies (for example) should be a headshot kill only type of thing...shoot them in the chest 20 times and they keep coming, but blast them in the head and they go down.  That's what makes survival horror scary, being overwealmed with too little resources.

"

I am fine with survival horror games evolving into shooters, as long as RE4 and Dead Space are the examples and not much more than that.  That is a fine example to build upon sir.

Man, I'm so tired of people saying that the old RE's had bad controls and camera.
Survival Horror was about resource management and atmosphere. Now its just about cheap scares and unloading clips into monsters.

survival horror turned into shooters when Resident Evil 4 came out. AMAZING game, and it changed the way that survival horror games are made.

"Man, I'm so tired of people saying that the old RE's had bad controls and camera.
Survival Horror was about resource management and atmosphere. Now its just about cheap scares and unloading clips into monsters."

now shooters are getting grey too so there changing there atmosphere when horror games change there fighting styles :P

Perhaps, although what's scarier, having a gun but with very limited ammo, or not having a gun at all? Personally I think it would suck knowing you have a gun that is your last chance for survival, but not knowing if you should use it now or later. Makes it very tense.

I dont know about shooter, but its certainly getting more "actionny". Which is something RE4 brought to the genre. And its okay. Dead Space proved that you can do real good survival horror and still have a nice pace and good controls.

yes

im quite a big fan of games like FEAR, Bioshock and RE4 and there were definately parts that scared me.  The old resident evil camera / controls wouldnt hold up today.  It would be more frustrating than scary.

The way forward as i see it (if not going 'actiony') is not to pose limitations on the player, but offer them a variety of ways of progression that each have pros and cons.  For instance, using the gameworld environment in a more interactive way.  Also; why cant there be 'running away' systems like shenue albeit opposite!  QTE to escape.  RE4 With ashley section a pant soiling moment the first time through.

i do think the games are not as scary anymore, but there are more factors to consider then simply the controls in the older survival horror games. i mean in resident evil 1 there was the classic dogs bursting through the mirror, and in Resi 2 they would constantly have lickers crash through cielings and what not in areas that made you feel like they were empty.
things like the close up cutscene in resi 2 when you saw the first licker etc. they didnt do any of that type of thing in resi 4. sure the enemies looked great and were super detailed and it was gory but they made no attempt to startle you or catch you off guard anywhere. the controls did have a part to play in the earlier games feeling of suspense but there was a lot more involved in the atmosphere and shocks those games created

^ i agree, although there was that maze section where the dogs jumped out through the bushes and the cage!  I think they probably went that route as to avoid breaking up the intensity of the game with 'scary' cutscenes.  There was plenty of times in RE4 when you get scared primarily because you become overwhelmed with enemies.  Some of the bonus challenge levels were brownpants inducing!

If you like shock based HORROR games then you will be so happy since games like Dead Space , Condemned 1-2 ,  and Upcoming Doom 4 and a whole lot more will satisfy you but if you are seeking a psychological dread you will likely be disappointed .

Right now silent hill Homecoming (multi-platform ), Siren  (PS3 exclusive ) and upcoming Alan Wake (Xbox 360 –PC exclusive) are the only games in this generation that could be called psychological Horror games .

I miss the good old days back when PS2 was rocking the world with lots and lots of  HORROR-SURVIVAL   games .   

HORROR OR HORROR-SURVIVAL THAT IS THE PROBLEM

There was plenty of times in RE4 when you get scared primarily because you become overwhelmed with enemies.  Some of the bonus challenge levels were brownpants inducing!"

"Stevokenevo said:

There was plenty of times in RE4 when you get scared primarily because you become overwhelmed with enemies.  Some of the bonus challenge levels were brownpants inducing!"

i dont think scared is the right word. those sections made you panic , yeah, but it was more of a "shit i dont want to die and do this section again" kind of thing. i get what you are saying but resi 4 never once made me jump or freaked me out."

I personally was fearful in RE4 as much as I was scared while playing Gears Of War 2  LOL

RE4- RE5 can not even be called Horror  (What about Horror- survival )  they are totally action games 

although I adore resident Evil  4 & 5 nevertheless

Resident Evil 5 is day 1 purchase for me

or in my case and due to Gamestop connections day  -7 LOL

i guess.  its nothing on the zombie banging on the window in Veronica, or the hunter crashing through the door in RE1 remake.

Adrenaline definately kicks in though when guys with double chainsaws are running and flailing at you! haha.

Ive been meaning to get a hold of the Condemned games.  I think I will enjoy them and the level of gore/horror.

you also mentioned not being scared at any point in RE4,...not even the part where you first meet a 'Regenerator' in the prison for the first time!  I'm a complete sucker for that stuff.  The noise and darkness and the confined space you were in....

"you also mentioned not being scared at any point in RE4,...not even the part where you first meet a 'Regenerator' in the prison for the first time!  I'm a complete sucker for that stuff.  The noise and darkness and the confined space you were in...."

"you also mentioned not being scared at any point in RE4,...not even the part where you first meet a 'Regenerator' in the prison for the first time!  I'm a complete sucker for that stuff.  The noise and darkness and the confined space you were in...."

well in that case ill definately look into getting hold of the condemned games!  i think the reason i get scared in some scenarios is my ridiculously overactive imagination.  its not so bad that i cant play the games though.  : D

talking about this just reminded me of this video i saw ages ago!!  hilarious.... Japanese guy totally shit scared of RE2

I think you can have good controls and still have a horror game. If bad controls make a good scare then the new Alone in the Dark must be the greatest horror game ever.

I don't think the problem is controls, but limitations. I like a horror game best when I feel vulnerable playing the main character. I like Leon in RE4 and I love the game, but he's an action hero and he's far too capable. It's why I don't find the game scary.

My two favorite horror games are Siren and Fatal Frame 2. I find those two to have some of the creepiest moments I've ever experienced in a game. I'm not easily scared and at times while playing Fatal Frame, I found myself actually dreading opening a door or going around a corner because the atmosphere was to heavy. The scenes in Siren where you play the little girl Harumi have absolutely no combat and they're some of the tensest scenes in the game. You don't need hordes of enemies either. In both of these games the enemies and battles are often unpredictable, because there's not something around every corner and behind every door.

rofl, embed.

"rofl, embed"

I think it is because in real life, if a zombie came up to you, you would be scared as shit and run away, but in new games you just pull out a gun and shoot.  Not as fun. >_>