The Whole "FFVII/Sessler" Debate

Sessler offers a perspective not unlike those of the people who didn't play this game 12 years or so ago and look back on it now (along with games like Ocarina of Time) and say "jesus... I'm glad I missed that." That would also include me, generally. He's not really wrong. Sure it was strange to offer a quasi-current perspective on it as though he were doing a review, but he described accurately what someone playing FF7 today would think about the game.

So was Adam dissing Final Fantasy VII, or just JRPGs in general; aside from the Aeris reference you really couldn't tell. The problem with these retrospect reviews is that they are taken out of context for the time period they were released. Sure it was hyped up, but it was Final Fantasy, it was the first 3-D Final Fantasy, it was the first Final Fantasy to use CG cutscenes, it was the first Sci-Fi themed Final Fantasy; it was a lot of firsts including being that 'gateway drug' to JRPGs for so many people.

If Final Fantasy VII was never made back then, and was only now being made, we'd be getting a different Final Fantasy VII. IGN also did a retrospective on the original Metal Gear Solid asking if it was overhyped (their conclusion, it wasn't but the series afterwards is). Just way to garner hits: take classic game or series, and smack talk it.

Personally, Final Fantasy VII still ranks as my favorite in the series, with Final Fantasy IV (II on SNES) being right under it. Generally I like Adam Sessler, but I think he's off the mark in doing this type of retrospective. Final Fantasy VII was a product of it's times, just as the upcoming Final Fantasy XIII is a product of now (and may even be mocked in the same way years from now).

Jayge: When I actually got a chance to talk to Mr. Barnett last weekend, we talked for a bit about his golden age theory. I had Sessler's words running in the back of my head, and brought up that his theory proves that we'll never often see common discussion amongst people -- he completely agreed.

But in general, I keep up with Sessler's Soapbox, and I think it shows the better side of him -- the side I look up to. To take the words of Jim Connor (Dendei), who which I was talking to that night: "It feels like he's going down a troll's checklist and marking off each one." In this video, it's really the ONLY vibe I get from it. I couldn't agree any more with Eelcire, as it just feels like he's off the mark. It's a shame, because when Adam typically goes for a style like this, he's dead on -- Resident Evil 5, for example.

Regardless, I'll make it clear that I still love the Sessdog. Although the only word I can think of for this whole outlash is, well ... 'silly.'

So he was saying all of these negative stuff about a game that was released in 1997, times were different. how old is that video?

I think Sessler is just being a big asshole to get attention. Clearly it's working. I mean RE5 definitely wasn't just 3 stars, and FFVII inspired a bunch of games. Whatever, I enjoy FFVII and he can fuck off for all I care.

I've said this before, this video was a troll call. The feeling I got from it was "Oh hey everyone who likes this game, still like it? What the hell! I mean look at it! How could anyone like this! You must a bunch of idiots!". If you want to say anything negative about that game, go right ahead and do it. I think it creates great discussion when done right. However with this it seems like an attempt to antagonize the fanbase.

Most of what is said in that video can be presented to any popular game from over 10 years ago. "Hey, like Ocarina of Time? WHY?! The graphics are blocky and you have no modern quest interface! It's just the same stupid thing over and over with a dumb story to boot. Boy you fans sure are dumb!". All this is basics in the troll handbook, which is what bothers me the most about this video.

This, along with the IGN: Is Metal Gear Overrated is an example of how far gaming journalism has to go. These stories and videos exist for no other purpose than hits, because they know that certain people will be drawn into the sensationalist nature of the piece. What they might think is thought-provoking and discussion starting is only half-true--while discussions do crop up by these videos and articles--they're more likely going to be discussions about the writer's incompetence rather than the subject matter at hand.

Besides, is 2009 really the correct time to start a discussion about Final Fantasy VII? Or May 2009 the correct time to put out a "Is Metal Gear Overrated" article? Perhaps if reviewers had their gripes about the series and or games at the time they were released they could try and prove their "toughness", which is all these articles amount to--trying to prove credibility, toughness and a critical eye towards video games--but all this comes off as is spineless hindsighting. Perhaps if gaming journalists spoke of their gripes in their initial reviews rather than 6-12 months later (or hell, 12 years later), their profession would be taken more seriously in the gaming industry and community.

Regardless of whether or not Final Fantasy VII was a great game or not (I say it's "pretty good" and leave it at that), what I want to know is this: Is "Your Childhood Sucks" a series--or going to be a series--that is meant to be taken tongue-in-cheek? At first when I heard about the, I felt like maybe Sessler decided to let go of his upstanding principles for a second just to troll. But then watching the video, I feel like it's supposed to be doing what it's doing. Yeah, it's pretty much a troll post. But are the rest of "Your Childhood Sucks" troll posts? Perhaps it's a social experiment geared towards seeing how many of us in the gaming audience can take these things in stride and debate them richly, or react and just send him hate mail? As trolly as this is, you have to admit that the majority of the audience *probably* would end up responding in an undesireable manner, and like I said, maybe it's part of his own little social experiment. Not saying it's right or wrong, and I'm not saying anything really, just that I'm wondering if it's supposed to be this way either for "fun" or as an "experiment."

So...if I think Final Fantasy VII kinda sucks, am I a troll for having that opinion? It is a ridiculously over hyped game that was mostly a product of its time than a really exceptional FF game, in my opinion. I always compare it to FF6 that came before it, and it just don't hold up. Its story is convoluted to all hell, the combat slogs, the attempts at varied gameplay come as random and gimmicky, the art style is widely inconsistent and the general play of it is just not terribly enjoyable. Yes, it broke the Japanese RPG style to the wide audience, but that was largely because it felt different from past games. Plus, this is the Playstation we're talking about; except for the original NES, this was the console that brought gaming to the widest audience.

Jeremy Parrish has stated similiar opinions on the game on the Retronauts podcast, though only when discussing Final Fantasy games in general. And similiarly, people have criticisized him for just wanting to stir up shit and be contrary. It seems that this game is held above criticism, or that we have some sort objective standard of which games are to be considered universally praise-worthy. While the language of this segment is unfortunately trolltastic, I think the core idea behind it is a valid one: that nothing is above criticism and nostalgia is a hell of a drug. And while I wouldn't say that FFVII "sucks," it is by far the most overrated game in the series and has not aged nearly as well as just about every other game in the series, 2 excepted. But 2 was dated when it came out.

So is the alternative to keep your mouth shut and just allow people to keep praising a game that came out over ten years ago? Yes, I do believe that this particular segment is to get a rise out of people. But Sessler has nothing to prove other than to make you question your nostalgia.

Whatever the "function" of enthusiast press is or isn't, I can't imagine the job entails echoing what everyone else says or shutting up when your in the minority. In fact, I'd say the minority voice is the most important. I might not agree (or in this case, agree, and I love Japanese RPGs) but at the very least it forces me to answer why I agree or disagree. It creates discussion (obviously) and I can't see how that's a bad thing.

There are more constructive ways to criticize than troll. That's why I'm open to the possibility that this video is only to be taken somewhat seriously.

FFVII is an awesome game, and a lot of people that have played it, the majority  loved it. People dont have to be so flippin negative about it, over the years they only started remaking everything so that we could enjoy the game with higher quality and better graphics, so many ideas were born out of the game as well. There are multiple diefferent arguments over the game and multiple different questions and statements. I believe the game was extremely unique when it came out, and it still is.

Sessler is a creepy asshole. Nothing to do with this at all, there is just something about him that screams "freak."

That is all.

I will say that I think this particular review isn't the best example of negative criticism of the genre; I much prefer Jeremy Parish's criticisms of the game, largely because he (at least claims) that even at the time of its release, he wasn't wowed by the game. It is different to hear his perspective as someone who played every Square RPG up to that point, and then to feel cold by the harder edge of that game. Sessler, in this video at least, does shoot for the lowest common denominator and leaves little room for conversation.

My issue is more with the idea that FF7 is above criticism, and I hope at least most people here will see how ridiculous of a sentiment that is.

Really Sessler? Really? Come oooooooooooooooooooon! Reeeeeeeeeeealy?

Hey, listen folks, you can argue all you want that it was better 12 years ago. I was there. It was not. It was ugly, tedious, boring and overhyped then, and nothing has changed. It might have been your first RPG, it might have been the first massive JRPG hit in the Western world, but it is trash. Part of this is just the problem with a lot of JRPGs (There are exceptions). Part of it is Square Enix's archaic design practices (Yes, practices which were already archaic 12 years ago and which they are still employing), And why ar ethir practices so archaic? Because JRPG fans are the worst kinds of fanboys in the world. So opposed to change, it boggles the mind.

You guys are free to love Final Fantasy VII to death. I love games you guys would hate too (like Excite Truck), but you have got to stop acting like everyone agrees with you and the people who dislike Final Fantasy VII are a minority. There's actually more of us.

Personally, I haven't watched Sessler's video yet, but I remember picking up a copy day one (still have it too, original misprint copy).  The game was bad, but because it was the first real RPG on the PS1...and because it was graphically amazing to people at the time...and because it was Final Fantasy...and because it killed off a main character halfway through the story...

Alright, so I watched the video of Sessler's rant...and he's pretty much spot on...even on points that I never thought about (like the soundtrack...WTF?!...how did I NEVER notice that?!).

You know, re-watching the video to see how "trollish" it was, I think the most bizarre part is how Sessler passively supports chasing ambien with vodka.

The point that I think everyone attacking Sessler for this video is trying to make is that the video serves no purpose other than to validate his own opinion and the opinions of like-minded individuals, or to piss off a rabid fanbase.  This wasn't meant to inform, or really to even entertain.  It seemed as if Sessler was attempting to change the mind of the fanboys, something that just isn't going to happen.

I'm not a Final Fantasy VII fanboy.  If you ask me which games in the series I like (that I've played), it would probably be near the bottom.  I'm also not in the camp that apparently believes that the game was garbage some twelve years down the line.  It isn't garbage now, and it certainly wasn't garbage then.  It was overhyped to hell, but the critical praise wasn't unprecented, and neither is the love of the fans at which this aimed to piss off.

I see Sessler has finally gone off the deep end.

I used to have quite a bit of respect for Mr. Sessler as a game critic and commentator. I remember the fan backlash when he flunked Crisis Core, and it was ugly. But he was right to do it, as it was ostensibly a lax game. Better to tell the truth about such things than to assure people that something like that is a great game, when it clearly isn't.

But this is preposterous, to say the least. Sessler may not like FFVII, or even the franchise as a whole, but utilizing laughable non-logic and resorting to baseless ad hominem attacks to make his points isn't going to win anyone over to his side. (Appeal to majority is just one of many, many logical fallacies that he indulges in here, fallacies that should be obvious to anyone with even the most basic education).

I can only shake my head. Whether some gamers like it or not, FFVII is a classic, a game that opened the market for other RPGs to follow, and harbored a plot that subverted numerous RPG story tropes. It also contained high-level story points that went way over the heads of most of the people who played it (the deconstruction of identity of the ubiquitous monomythical hero, for one). Sniping it a good decade after its release is like dusting off Citizen Kane or Nosferatu and blasting them for not being in colour or utilizing the latest in camera techniques.

Bad form, Sessler. Bad form, indeed.

What, so no one gets mad at IGN when they do the exact same thing? Regardless, FFVII has aged poorly, and the fact that many were attracted to it by the cutscenes is a legitimate gripe. It is still a Final Fantasy game, but it was kind of a bummer for all of the previous fans of the series when it becomes popular just because people thinks it looks pretty. His complaint about how often some of the random boss fights came up was legitimate as well. FFVII was still a great game in its day, but unlike some games from its generation, it just doesnt stack up anymore. But regardless of whether he was right or wrong, he is just a guy putting his opinion out there, and i cant understand why anyone is getting their panties in a bunch when he says something "controvercial". No one made topics about IGN calling FFVII overrated, so why should they for Sessler?

I can see the argument of nostalgia vs. fanboyism is pointless. Name calling and who can yell the loudest would win this contest of words. I don't need a back story to say, I stood in line that morning at Babbages to pick up my pre-order of Final Fantasy VII with the guide, FF VII t-shirt that came with the pre-order. I was a fan of FF VII. Playing it today is not as fun as it once was. My feeling for FF VII had change, confirming FF VII did suck. If I had not play the game again 10 years later, there would stil be that place in my heart stating FF VII is the Holy Grail of JRPGs. That feeling I had was nostalgia, is now gone. So if you do plan on keeping that idea that FF VII still hold up to today, don't play it again.

For those who are willing to defend the game, I challege you to do a playthrough once again and then give your verdict. I loved it then, not so much now. There are tons of RPGs since then that surprised me and enjoyed just as much if not more.

Just got the chance to watch this... so... What was the point of that? If it was to go "Bahaha I'm doing this to piss you off - FF7 sucked back then and still sucks now BYYYYE!", then good job! The video comes off in a very "I'M RIGHT ABOUT THIS AND YOU ARE WRONG" kind of way. I definitely don't disagree with some of his points against the game but... sigh... I know he can do better than this, it's such a shame.

Was the video trolling? To a degree, Sessler likes to poke at hornets nests every now and then. The interesting thing to me isn't what he says about the game, you could pick apart any 10+ year old game like that, it is all the reactions. He has plucked the fanboy nerve of a lot of people who wouldn't normally act that way. Yes you loved it growing up, yes it impacted the industry greatly, but it isn't above reproach, it isn't perfect. Hang on to your nostalgia but don't lose perspective in the process, have a laugh at how badly the stuff you played as a kid has aged and keep it moving.

I agree with Sessler.  FFVII was just a horrible game in my opinion.  I just found it to be boring, confusing, and also the beginning of the era of lame male RPG protagonists.  I do understand why people liked it, but at the same time, I believe those same people are blind to why some people may not like it, and will always throw a major nerd hissy fit whenever anyone brings up the question of the game's quality.  If you liked it, that's cool.  Just watch the video, shrug, and move on.  It doesn't change how you feel at all, so what does it matter?

...Although if you DID cry when Aris got stabbed, you are a total tool.  That's just scientific fact.

FF7 was not my first RPG and I still love the shit out of it, fuck Sessler.